LC-1 wiring question..

[Redline Motorsports]

I am using only three of the seven wires coming from the LC-1 unit to tie into the FS. The colors are Yellow (Analog 1), White (System ground), and Green (Analog ground). I have both the White and Green tied together.

The Yellow (Analog 1) is connected to the E pin of the external pinout and the other two (White/Green) are connected to pin D.

The black and Red a tied to switched 12 volt power respectively.

I also set up the Log programming software under Anolog 1 to the following settings

.883 volts at 9.99:1
4.216 volts at 19.99:1

I then selected the program button.

I also selected the appropriate PID for {EXT.AD1}

Is the wiring correct? I keep reading about the ground issues and want to confirm this is wired correctly.

Thanks

Howard

[Ira]

I think that the white, system ground, should be tied directly to ground or to the heater ground and not to the FlashScan ground. don't know what the internals look like, but if the inputs ever become isolated like I think they might be in the next version it won't work at all and even if it does, the system gound is not part of the output signal and doesn't belong there. You didn't say which sensor PIDs you chose so I'll assume the voltage levels you chose make sense. I could be wrong, but as I recall the LC1 as shipped has narow band output on analog 1 and wideband output on analog 2.

Ira

[Blacky]

What Ira said, plus...

System ground (white) and analog ground (green) should both be connected to FlashScan pin-D.
On my setup, I connected Analog 1 to flashScan pin-C and Analog 2 to FlashScan pin-E.
Heater ground (blue) should be connected to the vehicle's chassis ground.

See image...

[Ira]

Do you really want the system ground connected to analog ground? If they implemented the thing correctly I would assume that the analog out is referenced to analog ground and there should be essentially no current flowing through those wires other than the load FlashScan put on it. On the other hand I'd assume that system ground is the return for the LC-1's internal 5V supply and might carry a fair amount of current. If that's the case, does it really make sense to tie the white, system ground, to FlashScans analog ground reference?

And as an aside, in FlashScan V2 does the analog ground actually connect to ground?

Ira

[Blacky]

Hi Ira,

Yes, you should connect analog and system ground together.

From the LC-1 install manual:

6. Connect the system ground to where you will use the analog out signals. If you use the analog out signals as input for an ECU or data-logger, connect the system ground to the ground of the ECU or data logger.
Pin D (analog ground) of FlashScan is exactly the same circuit as the ground for FlashScan.

FlashScan Pin D = DB9 Pin 1 and 2 = OBDII Pin 4 and 5 = chassis and signal ground.

Note: Pins 4 and 5 (chassis and signal) ground are tied together on GM OBDII applications.

Regards
Paul

[Redline Motorsports]

Thanks Paul.

Pictures worth a thousand words.

Howard

[jsttry]

Blacky its a bit late now but where is that a pic of? its late and I can't go out to the car to look but is it under the steering column in the cabin? I've just got my LC-1 back from warranty replacement and want to hook it up in a way that I can easily plug it in and out of cars. was thinking of using the cigarette light for 12v and ground but don't want to run both to the same ground point.


What Ira said, plus...

System ground (white) and analog ground (green) should both be connected to FlashScan pin-D.
On my setup, I connected Analog 1 to flashScan pin-C and Analog 2 to FlashScan pin-E.
Heater ground (blue) should be connected to the vehicle's chassis ground.

See image...

[SSbaby]

Blacky its a bit late now but where is that a pic of? its late and I can't go out to the car to look but is it under the steering column in the cabin? I've just got my LC-1 back from warranty replacement and want to hook it up in a way that I can easily plug it in and out of cars. was thinking of using the cigarette light for 12v and ground but don't want to run both to the same ground point.
I'm using a cigarette plug for my switched 12V. I grounded the LC-1 blue wire to plug's earth wire. Also grounded the white and green wires from LC-1 to Flashscan blackbox, plugged the analogue brown LC-1 wire into the Flashscan blackbox C-terminal and not using the yellow wire at all... but getting weird AFRs... like 21.7!!! :Eyecrazy:

I've checked the respective voltages between points (power - earth, etc...) and all seems fine with the way I hooked up the connections, which I followed as per LC-1 and EFILive installation instructions.

Also used the Logworks serial connection to log AFRs... still no luck. I've read the various threads on this forum regarding possible earth wire issues so I want to know from people how they've managed to overcome their early problems relating to high AFRs on their logs?

:help2:

[Blacky]

Blacky its a bit late now but where is that a pic of? its late and I can't go out to the car to look but is it under the steering column in the cabin? I've just got my LC-1 back from warranty replacement and want to hook it up in a way that I can easily plug it in and out of cars. was thinking of using the cigarette light for 12v and ground but don't want to run both to the same ground point.
Below, right of steering column. Fold down the entire panel under the steering column. The pic is of a 2000 VT.

FlashScan's ground is connected to pins 4 and 5 of the OBDII connector. Check the ground offset between pins 4 or 5 of the OBDII connector (top two center pins) and the cigarette lighter ground. If they are at the same voltage then you can connect system ground to the lighter and analog ground to FlashScan no problem.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

I'm using a cigarette plug for my switched 12V. I grounded the LC-1 blue wire to plug's earth wire. Also grounded the white and green wires from LC-1 to Flashscan blackbox, plugged the analogue brown LC-1 wire into the Flashscan blackbox C-terminal and not using the yellow wire at all... but getting weird AFRs... like 21.7!!!
If you have a multimeter, then temporarily reconfigure the LC-1 so that the analog output is set to a flat, horizontal line at a specific voltage. i.e. set 10AFR=4V and 20AFR=4V. That will cause the LC-1 to output 4 volts all the time. Use the multimeter to check that there is 4 volts between analog 1 or 2 (whichever you configured) and analog ground.
If that checks out, plug it into FlashScan and check the PID: {EXT.AD1} or {EXT.AD2} (whichever you connected it to) to see if FlashScan reads 4 volts also.

Regards
Paul

[SSbaby]

If you have a multimeter, then temporarily reconfigure the LC-1 so that the analog output is set to a flat, horizontal line at a specific voltage. i.e. set 10AFR=4V and 20AFR=4V. That will cause the LC-1 to output 4 volts all the time. Use the multimeter to check that there is 4 volts between analog 1 or 2 (whichever you configured) and analog ground.
If that checks out, plug it into FlashScan and check the PID: {EXT.AD1} or {EXT.AD2} (whichever you connected it to) to see if FlashScan reads 4 volts also.

Regards
Paul
Thanks Paul . As always, you are very helpful! :master: :thankyou2:

EDIT:

Just pulled down on the panel below the driver's steering column. My car is a VX2. The 12V red wire should actually be plugged into the top left slot of the (spare) 12V switched source on the VX, whereas Blacky's VT clearly shows the red wire connected to a spare slot in the top right.

Further, I measured the voltage at that point and obtained a reading of 11.96V from ground (where blue wire is screwed down). The voltage signal from the phone harness (along the centre console, see pic below) was actually stronger where I saw exactly 12V. As a comparison, the cigarette plug gave me 11.9V between positive and negative.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/SSbaby/cellphoneharness.jpg

Just food for thought... spoilt for choices now.

Btw, I'm having some connectivity issues wrt my WO2 atm - I'm using the cig lighter... the EXT.AD2 reading is showing only 2.35V instead of an expected 5.0V.

[jsttry]

Below, right of steering column. Fold down the entire panel under the steering column. The pic is of a 2000 VT.

FlashScan's ground is connected to pins 4 and 5 of the OBDII connector. Check the ground offset between pins 4 or 5 of the OBDII connector (top two center pins) and the cigarette lighter ground. If they are at the same voltage then you can connect system ground to the lighter and analog ground to FlashScan no problem.

Regards
Paul
I got out and checked tonight. There is 0.06V difference between my cigarette lighter and Flashscan's ground point

[bK]

Hi Ira,

Yes, you should connect analog and system ground together.

From the LC-1 install manual:

Pin D (analog ground) of FlashScan is exactly the same circuit as the ground for FlashScan.

FlashScan Pin D = DB9 Pin 1 and 2 = OBDII Pin 4 and 5 = chassis and signal ground.

Note: Pins 4 and 5 (chassis and signal) ground are tied together on GM OBDII applications.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul,

Not sure if this idea is possible or had been thought of before but seeing Flashscan uses pins 1 and 2 of DB9 connector for ground, could I setup a very short adaptor between OBDII cable's DB9 female connector and the male DB9 connector of the Flashscan?

The DB9 adaptor will be straight thru with a connection point (pins 1 & 2 together) to allow grounding of the LC-1 analogue, system wires and Pin D from the Flashscan so in theory will give me 0V offset between Flashscan and LC-1?

Would this adaptor cause problems with the signal from OBDII interface to the Flashscan?

Cheers,
Brett

[Ira]

Not sure if this idea is possible or had been thought of before but seeing Flashscan uses pins 1 and 2 of DB9 connector for ground, could I setup a very short adaptor between OBDII cable's DB9 female connector and the male DB9 connector of the Flashscan?


Pin 1 maybe, don't remember the 9 pin pinout that well, but pin 2 is data, not ground.

FWIW, you really should connect the analog ground and analog out to the orange plug, the shorter that connection, the less chance for noise and errors due to offsets and ground loops.

Ira

[Tydriver]

Not 100% ON-TOPIC.. But anyone know anything about HEATER CIRCUIT failure error ??

I installed my LC-1, it ran for about 2-3 days and now I am getting the flashing error code #2. The manual says heater circuit error.

Do I just change out the O2 sensor ? Kinda stumped as it worked good for 2-3 days then just quit and nothing else was changed in the vehicle.

I am open for ideas/input from this.. I'd hate to just buy another O2 just to test..

[Ira]

I installed my LC-1, it ran for about 2-3 days and now I am getting the flashing error code #2. The manual says heater circuit error.


An ohmmeter between heater 12V and ground should answer the question if the heater's bad. I'd guess it should measure 5 to 15 ohms, but if you want I can go measure my collection and tell you what they average. If memory serves me correctly, www.1stvwparts.com has good prices on those. I think I paid in the $39 range for the ones I have and today they show $41.82 + shipping.

Ira

[bK]

Pin 1 maybe, don't remember the 9 pin pinout that well, but pin 2 is data, not ground.

FWIW, you really should connect the analog ground and analog out to the orange plug, the shorter that connection, the less chance for noise and errors due to offsets and ground loops.

Ira
Let me see if I got this right, I don't need to connect LC-1's system and analogue ground (green and white wires) to a chassis ground just to PIN D of the Flashscan?

Cheers,
Brett


EDIT: I took a day off and came back to re-read the instructions from the lc-1 installation.pdf on efilive website and found the answer staring me straight in the face. :redface:

[Tydriver]

An ohmmeter between heater 12V and ground should answer the question if the heater's bad. I'd guess it should measure 5 to 15 ohms, but if you want I can go measure my collection and tell you what they average. If memory serves me correctly, www.1stvwparts.com (http://www.1stvwparts.com) has good prices on those. I think I paid in the $39 range for the ones I have and today they show $41.82 + shipping.

Ira


Awesome information !! Thanks, by chance do you happen to know the part number ? I can go crawl under my truck if need be.. Just thought it would be quicker if anyone has the # handy..

Thanks again, you guys ROCK !!

[Ira]

From your LC-1 manual:

Replacement sensors are available from your nearest VW dealer under the VW part-number 021-906-262-B or direct from Innovate Motorsports.

[Tydriver]

From your LC-1 manual:

Replacement sensors are available from your nearest VW dealer under the VW part-number 021-906-262-B or direct from Innovate Motorsports.

Dayang, dont I look like a big dummy !!! Thanks for the heads up.. I appreciate all the information, I already checked with Innovate Motorsports on the sensor before I posted and was surprised it was $79+ shipping.. Hence the reason I didnt just order it online from them.. I was going to crawl under the truck and get the number off the sensor but thats cool.. I never figuired they'd refer you to their competition..

Thanks again for all the help..

[Tydriver]

Dayang, dont I look like a big dummy !!! Thanks for the heads up.. I appreciate all the information, I already checked with Innovate Motorsports on the sensor before I posted and was surprised it was $79+ shipping.. Hence the reason I didnt just order it online from them.. I was going to crawl under the truck and get the number off the sensor but thats cool.. I never figuired they'd refer you to their competition..

Thanks again for all the help..
---edit---

I ordered this sensor locally from Napa Automotive, the part is all over the place price wise from the local stores, (Autozone,Napa, Advance Auto etc).. I found it for $45 from my local Napa they have to special order it but beats $80 from Innovate, it was a toss-up dealing with that place you mentioned since the pricing woulda worked out about the same in the end. I just chose to support my local guy instead..

Thanks again IRA, I appreciate the information.. Anyone wanting to order the Napa Part the BOSCH part # is 17014 and the Napa# is BSH-17014.

[bK]

LC-1 is wired in and working perfect..... Well almost perfect it's got the slightest ground offset of 0.03. I've worked this out from changing analogue 2 output to a flat line of 2V at 10:1 and 20:1 AFR. The reading I get from the Flashscan is 1.97V.

So to get my the calculation for correct Wideband AFR to work perfectly I need to modify the SAE_GENERIC.txt from:
({EXT.AD1}*3)+7.35 to
(({EXT.AD1}+0.03)*3)+7.35

Does this sound correct? I’ve done the maths in a spreadsheet and calculates spot on

The LC-1 manual was excellent source of information but if there is a revision can there be a mention to the ground offset please?

Cheers,
Brett

[eboggs_jkvl]

BSH-17014, from NAPA? Is that a wideband sensor? If so, that's my next purchase, especially for $45.

Elmer

[Tydriver]

BSH-17014, from NAPA? Is that a wideband sensor? If so, that's my next purchase, especially for $45.

Elmer

That is for the O2 sensor yes.. You obviously still need the LC1 box from Innovate.

[eboggs_jkvl]

OK, fog is coming back in the harbor...

I need the sensor, AND that gizmo from innovate? Doesn't the sensor simply wire in to my EFILive scanner/programmer interface with the plugs that came with the V7 Flash/Scan Personal kit?

[joecar]

OK, fog is coming back in the harbor...

I need the sensor, AND that gizmo from innovate? Doesn't the sensor simply wire in to my EFILive scanner/programmer interface with the plugs that came with the V7 Flash/Scan Personal kit? Fog's nothing, how about when core dumps... :D several times already today...

The WB sensor plugs into the WB controller module;
the WB controller module has analog outputs for NB and WB signals.

the whole thing (WB sensor + WB controller module) is the "LC-1" that comes from Innovate (altho "LC-1" is really the WB controller module).

[Garry]

Is a $200 price tag on the LC-1 set w/o display module a good price, or are there any places that have them cheaper than that?

http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=169