98 Astro 411 swap thread

[redfury]

It went mostly good, though it took me 2 days to accomplish it ( partly due to the cold, and partly due to the lack of sunlight the first day ).

I got it all together with a couple of the spreadsheets and it fired right up! :hihi:

Once it got into closed loop though, it wouldn't idle. Neither O2 sensor is being read by the computer, so I can only assume there is a difference between the spreadsheets and the original O2 sensor wiring. The spreadsheets show only 2 Tan/White wires for the whole harness, the Astro uses 4, and they are all for O2 sensors, including purple, purple/white. My base tune has the rear O2 sensor removed.

So, now I'm trying to figure out how I need to have these darn O2 sensors wired into the computer. I've got spreadsheets for the 96 S10, 98S10 and 98 V8 truck. I'm not aware of any spreadsheets for the van, so I can assume there are some differences, as there were between all three of those spreadsheets.

[Taz]

For this swap, I take it you are using a 12200411 LS1-B PCM and a tune from a 2002 Express / Savana van equipped with a 5.7L Vortec engine and a 4L60 transmission ?

If so, you will require the pinouts / wiring diagrams from a 2002 Express / Savana to confirm the continuity of all wiring. Following this, a “run test” will be necessary to confirm the functionality of all sensors and components.


Regards,
Taz

[redfury]

Yes, Lextech helped me out with the PCM and some schematics. The only thing I didn't get was pinouts/wiring diagrams for the 2002 Savanna. I think that may have helped me out and had been less to deal with. I could still use it though. I'm working on making an actual ASTRO file.

[Lextech]

I don't have any way of sending you the Express wiring diagram. I only have it on paper. I will try to get the actual Astro O2 sensor diagram and send it to you.

Jeff

[redfury]

What do you mean by a "run test" specifically? I've taken it for a test drive and it shifts like I'd expect, but the idle is poor quality and the O2 sensors will not do anything ( I get PO134 and PO154 No O2 activity ) and will eventually get a random cylinder misfire. I can only assume it is due to needing a crank relearn, but the lack of O2 sensor activity has me concerned. One sensor is BRAND NEW, but I get a code for that bank. The rear O2 has been turned off by Lextech. I need to confirm that I have a V8 MAF sensor.

[Taz]

Step one - confirm the wiring harness is correctly “pinned” for the tune you are using, and validate the continuity of the wiring with a voltmeter (etc.). This is only a check of the wiring harness - not the sensors.

Step two - start the vehicle, bring it up to operating temperature - perform a crankshaft angle variation learn procedure (CASE) and idle learn. Then confirm the functionality of all sensors.

As an example, in your last “run test” you discovered an issue with the O2 sensors - which will send you back to step one - check the wiring.

Regarding your MAF sensor question …. The MAF parameters and rationality tests are the same between a 2002 Astro V6 and a 2002 Express V8 - the only difference is the calibration values (B5001). You should be able to use an Astro V6 MAF sensor if you update B5001 with the appropriate values from the original V6 tune.


Regards,
Taz

[slows10]

He has no way to do a relearn other than the dealer or someone with efilive etc. Your 02 problems and poor idle probably have little to do with a relearn. Although I'd like to see if you just did a relearn by itself before any tuning .If it improved any issues. I doubt it but would be nice to confirm.Just saying dont put all your focus on this if you dont have a way to get it done right away. Im glad to see you contacted jeff. Good guy.

[redfury]

I got ahold of our shops Genisys and did a crank relearn with it tonight, no real change. I did get to access many things with it while I was out there monkeying around.

Fuel trim is disabled, fuel runs only in open loop, never closes. No O2 sensor activity in any test I could perform, but shows .45 volts on each of them.

Multiple misfires on a few random cylinders ( mostly 7/8 in the 2000 range ) one other cylinder was round 1000.

live data shows no activity in any way for trimming fuel.

I'm going to pull the wiring out of the ECM for the rear O2 sensors since they are not part of the base tune anyway and see what happens. Unfortunately, the Genisys goes back in the morning, so I don't have it to play with, but I can confirm O2 activity with my cheap scanner with live data.

testing showed that the heater circuits on the HO2s passed, and according to my readings, the heater circuit for the O2 is separate from the PCM wiring.

My MAF at idle showed 7.8-8 grams/sec with a reading of 1625-1732 hz.

As far as audibly, the engine sounds rough, you can feel and hear the misfires. I'm going after the distributor itself this weekend to determine if I have a bad gear and double check the alignment of the installation since I can only assume the PO pulled the distributor when he installed the motor. could have easily screwed that up. The cam sensor readings were around -20 in live data.

[Aloicious]

-20 cmp retard offset is out of spec, it should be at 0 +- 2*, and its VERY sensitive. even tightening the hold down clamp can change it a couple degrees.

rear O2's shouldn't have any affect on how it runs, they mainly only test cat efficiency.

what spreadsheet are you using for the swap? I have most all of them, I could check it against others and see if there is something askew

[redfury]

I have the 96, 98 S10 truck, and the V8 truck spreadsheets.

[redfury]

Okay, I was doing some comparisons between the spreadsheets vs what I have in my van for wiring/what was wired in when I did the swap.

This was going off the 96 file, comparing it to the 98 file. Remember, the van is a 98, but the original PCM swap was done into the 96 PCM black box with 5 connectors.

C2 64 dk green, fuel tank pressure sensor....It's pinned in the 411, but the 96 file shows a blank...it's a 98 wire.

c2 55 drk grn A/C wire, it's pinned in the 411, but the 96 file shows a blank...says to ground it to make it work.

C2 54 PPL/WHT Fuel level senor signal wire. Absent in the 411 pinning, not used in the 96 file, but is a 98 harness wire

C2 52 Gray Generator pinned in the 411, absent in the 96 file, but is in the 98 harness

Here's the big one...

C2 59 PPL Class 2 serial data not pinned on the 411 wire, it was in the C2 58 spot. The 98 wiring file shows C2 58 having a Green/White wire and C2 59 shows having a yellow wire. These are absent from my harness.

C2 10 is not used in the 96 file, the 98 file shows a white wire for the TACH, which is pinned in C2 10


Beyond that, I pulled the wires out for the post cat O2 sensors and tried starting the truck with the C2 data wire ( PPL ) plugged into C2 59 instead of 58. No change in the operation of the van, other than it not wanting to start or idle as the van has been doing.

When I had the scanner on the van yesterday, I couldn't control the IAC valve either, at least it didn't change the RPMs the engine was running.

[redfury]

Using the 1998 truck file since my Van has the V8 vortec swap.

Everything that isn't written down here, is in it's proper spot, or properly missing from its spot, and the proper color wire. Of course, since there was a bit of confusion with the old harness, it is possible that something got crossed if it were the same color. I'm doubtful of that though as I double checked most wiring against the 98 C1-4 connectors shown in my books.

So, without further ado, here's my updated list. everything is listed as it sits in the 411 (C1) and (C2) plugs

C1 23 BLK Low reference for fuel gauge ( wire missing from harness )
C1 40 BLK/White Ground ( currently has a tan/white wire that grounds...will probably pull this wire as it occurs to me that it may be causing problems with the whole 02 issue )...it does ground out when Ohmed though...

C1 41 BLK EGR valve low reference says it's a main splice. I have NO EGR programmed in, so this shouldn't be an issue.
C1 54 ORN/BLK MAP sensor low reference...calls for a Main Splice here also...don't have this wire either. I was getting MAP readings on my scanner though, so I'm not sure if this is necessary either. I need to double check my MAP wiring in the book on this.
C1 58 PPL This is where I originally installed the wire, and it is currently in this spot
C1 59 PPL This shows a second purple wire in the 98 truck file unlike the other files. I'm not sure if this has any bearing on the van though. My thought is that it does not, unless there is this wire tucked into the harness somewhere.
C1 80 BLK ECT low reference. It seems like anything regarding "low reference" is missing from my harness.

C2 8 Lt. blu/wht PC solenoid valve low control I had this in C2 11, but that is a DK. BLU wire that is missing from my harness for the A/C compressor cycling switch. This SHOULD be in the correct place now.

C2 33 DK.GRN A/C recirculation door motor
C2 40 BLK Ground Nothing is indicated on the file for a Main splice or call out for a pin connector
C2 52 Grey Generator Field Duty cycle signal No indication this was present in original wiring


Everything else is where it is supposed to be with the exception of the wiring for the post cat O2 sensor wiring.

Currently out of the harness I have:

(3) tan/white wires
(1) PPL/White wire
(1) Tan wire
and have one PPL wire that is spliced into the PPL O2 wire taped back.

[redfury]

A Standard SG454, or ACDelco AFS105 is the sensor you want for the two front sensors. I learned this from one of my contacts throughout this process. Apparently my O2 woes have been because the sensors I am running ground differently than what the 411PCM wants to see. I will keep this thread updated once I've discovered if that is the case or not.

[redfury]

Got the O2 sensors installed, but still have to get this distributor in properly. Hopefully I'll have this finished this weekend.

[redfury]

Okay, update time! Got the distributor in the van and got it running pretty good. Need to get the cam indexing done yet, but it is running pretty good. The Oxygen sensors was the ticket! My scanner is showing double digits in my fuel trim readings for one bank though, the other side is in good shape. I'm curious as to whether I may have slightly damaged the O2 sensor when putting it into the drivers side bung since I had a hard time reaming it out for the new sensor. I may have to get an actual tap for the O2 sensor and use that to finish out the hole. I just couldn't get my dremel in there for the entire job. Close enough might still be too close. I'll pull that O2 sensor out and inspect if it necessary.

[redfury]

Oh, and I have TCC lock up since I switched the position of the light blue/blk wire to the proper spot. The fuel gauge works too, though I have the shaky gauge syndrome these are known for.