KR after Full Flash new OS...

[01Blackerado]

Upgraded a 2001 PCM with the 2002 OS 12212156. Copied all my data over from the old tun to the new OS tune and saved the data. Wrote it to the PCM and took a test drive. Im seeing 1.8degree of KR and about 6% higher average STFT while tuning. MAF off tuning VE with STFT. Any suggestions?

Oh yeah and this is part throttle btw ... 2000RPMs

[Tordne]

Check your injector tables to start with. I know in the Commodore anyway that the 2002 model changed injectors from a 26 ->28 lb (from memory). That will make a difference for sure :)

[01Blackerado]

My injectors are big boys...65lbs I changed their flow rate though already

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Log File

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[01Blackerado]

Hmmm i think i MAY see the problem..if someone can double verify for me i would feel much better...in the log i supplied at frame 607 im at 0.0 KR, Frame 608 same thing. Now I notice my spark advance here is at 15* which threw me off caue i didnt thnk it should be that low. For some reason it is defaulting me into the low Spark table in the tune. In this low spark table you can see that at the Map pressure vs RPM im curretnly at 15* then on frame 609 I get 1.6* KR when the Map Pressure vs RPM changes. I let off the throttle as it changed and it jumped from 15* to 25*. I just now over wrote that low spark table with my high spark table settings which is now like my old tune as far as that goes

[ScarabEpic22]

LTFTs are deactivated, and you only ever command 14.68:1 AFR, are you ever getting into PE? Wheres your wideband data? Do you have a lower tstat too, I dont think 174F is hot enough with a stock tstat.

What are your mods? Why do you need 65lb injectors, you're barely using them (but this doesnt show any WOT runs so I cant say for certain).

Are you running SD but still have the MAF hooked up? It kinda looks that way but I could be wrong.

[WeathermanShawn]

Looks like he is running CLSD (he has a MAF DTC, but B4205 is set for closed-loop.).

OP, you have in effect disabled PE by setting B3616 to 100%. Is that what you want?..You will not get any enrichment at all (even WOT).

[01Blackerado]

Yes thats exactly what i want right now...im tuning the VE table via STFT!!! So i disbaled LTFT for now, and MAF to run the SD. Turned off the PE for now as well so its not writing 0's in and spoofing the logged data

[01Blackerado]

Sorry Mod list ... 383 stroker motor,160* tstat, LT's, full bolt ons, 4L80E ... 8.5:1 comp. Its the foundation for an STS turbo but until the turbo is bought im setting it up N/A as best as possible. Reverse split cam so on so on. My trim before i swapped OS though were pretty awesome...0 to -2 STFT :). I tried recopying the VE last night and it looked like some of the cells never got written so i will try this morning and post up when i get to work. I log data every morning on the way in, make changes, load data on the way out, the drive home make changes....i have this VE almost perfect. Until last night ive never seen KR on this motor but i think what i posted was the issue so ill let you know here in about an hour or so.

My injecctors are so big cause its waiting on the turbo. They see about 56% duty cycle max N/A so should be real nice when i swap in the Turbo right off the bat

[01Blackerado]

Alrigt heres the update....STFT Effin beautiful, I mustve missed clicked on the VE table when i copied and pasted cause it is dialed in again nicely!!! As for the knock though, im seeing as high as 2 degrees in a cell or two and some misc. 1's+ in a few others. Generally in a a cell range of 1800 RPM - 3600RPM and .36 gs/cyl to .84gs/cyl. Im assuming that the new OS must have a more sensitive setting on the knock sensors!? I didnt copy and paste my old knock sensor settings simply because I figured the changes made to that section in the new OS were probably made for a reason. Im working with the new OS knock settings for now, so I knocked off 2 degrees of timing in that whole range of cells i mentioned. Ill see if that gets the knock taken care of.

[WeathermanShawn]

I'm assuming your posting because you want advice and help. You are hitting high MAP and cylinder loads without any fuel enrichment. Thats a recipe for KR and engine damage.

You probably will not find one tuner on this board who will endorse turning off any fuel enrichment to 'not get zero's ' when tuning closed-loop. There is no EFILive publication that endorses that 'technique'.

I take it you have a workable wideband. Why not just do the AUTOVE? It utilizes STFT Tuning in conjunction with keeping ample fuel to prevent detonation.

Its your vehicle, but just some friendly advice from a forum member..:).

[01Blackerado]

No wideband yet :( I need to stop being lazy and spring for one but I have to take time to research which i should pick up. I see what youre saying but I dont THINK PE would make a difference here. Since PE is based on throttle position and a few other perameters that im not even hitting!!! This is happening at like 20% throttle Im not sure of anyone that uses PE mode at that early on in the throttle position...kinda defeats the whole Stoich. My PE mode under normal circumstances when its not turned off, is on at 60% + throttle position. You should be able to run Stoich in all ranges safely if youre not hammering on it and have the correct timing and VE set up...Ive had this same spark timing/ PE tunning Technique for 4 PCM's but NEVER with this OS...This is the first time I've ever seen KR with this motor and tune style. I think there is a difference in the knock sensor settings vs my old OS...but im guessing if the sensitivity has been set this way from factory on this OS then i will tune based off of its sensitvity because it is probably more accurate, or simply safer!!

EDIT: Im looking at my old OS vs new OS... there is clearly a huge difference in the older Knock settings vs the new one...Just about every knock setting is different and some by a fairly large amount. The sensitivity is definitely higher on the new OS, Ill just re-tune accordingly

[joecar]

Copy your old knock settings.

[01Blackerado]

Joe, are you sure? I will if you recommend it but I was going to avoid it

[WeathermanShawn]

Blackerado, I'm aware on that log you are keeping out of the throttle. But even at lower TPS, you are hitting >90 Kpa and you are hitting .76 g/cyl. My main point was that its is not necessary to tune that way if you have a wideband. But its true you would not have been in PE Mode anyway and your KR is at lower throttle.

The other option is to alter B6207. I have mine set at .25. That way you can avoid altering your knock sensitivity features, but just speed up the KR recovery. Sounds like you have already discovered that in SD Mode you are operating off your Low-Octane Spark and you lose the Adaptive Spark feature.

A wideband is a good investment, but sounds like you already know that..:).

Good luck.

[01Blackerado]

Thank you, I appreciate all your insight and help!! Wideband is defniitely my next pick up :D