Need help on 99 454, cant rev past 4800

[mathis]

I have just started using efi live and i can not get my truck to rev past 4800. What all tables effect this? It has already been tunned by wait4me and the minimum dwell was reduced. My cam retard is between 0 and 2 if that would effect it in any way. What else can i do? Also iv read about a tcc apply pulse width. I cant seem to find anything about this. is that just on the newer pcms? thanks!

[mathis]

okay so after doing some logging it turns out its closer to 4900 but still.. can anyone help me? its driving me crazy. no point in putting my new cam in if i cant rev any higher. I want to be shifting at 5500 with the new cam. thanks

[ScarabEpic22]

Post your tune for starters, maybe your shift points are setup to have it shift at a specific mph and not at a certain rpm.

[skills4lou]

Have you done some upgrades to your valve-train? If it's stock I'm surprised you can make it rev that high without running into some serious valve float. Stock springs are pretty weak.

[mathis]

Ill post my tune when i get to my efi live computer later tonight. Its not the shift points. If i try to raise the shift points it hits that limiter, its like a hard limiter. Feels like it cuts fuel or spark. hits pretty hard. No the valve springs arnt stock, or the cam. I have a mild comp cam with matching springs set up at the correct installed height. as well as bigger injectors, ported heads, headers, and a 3200 5 disk lockup converter.

[skills4lou]

Sweet! What headers do you have, and how do you like 'em?

[mathis]

Still gotta get that tune posted up. The headers are headman. They are actually for an older tbi truck (they were much cheaper). I Just welded o2 bungs in the collector.

[hog]

the stock rev limit is set at 5000rpm and refuels at 4800 rpm. Up the rev limiter.


peace
Hog

[mathis]

I find no table to change rev limit? There is the minimum dwell table that says to cut the last column by 1/3 to raise the rev limit. wich i have done. Am i overlooking something?

[mathis]

here is my tune. 10237

[ScarabEpic22]

B1152 has been fixed as an out of range cell, I corrected it and set it to 80000. Doesnt matter in terms of when BTM will come in, B1149 makes sure it is never enabled, but it is important that the value is in a valid range.

Upshift RPMs are in Transmission Calibration -> Shift at RPM -> Upshift. Parameters D1127, D1128, and D1129. All set to 4800 in the tune you posted, I set the 1->2 and 2->3 to 5500 and 3->4 to 5200.

Hope this helps, you might have to play with the shift pressures if the truck bounces off the limiter at 5500 and doesnt shift for a second.

[schwoch1]

I hate to say this, I looked over your cal and I could not find a rev limit of any sort on it. My advice, do a 0411 computer swap, ditch the old Vortec black box computer and have fun!!! Hope this helps!

Mike

[slows10]

B1152 has been fixed as an out of range cell, I corrected it and set it to 80000. Doesnt matter in terms of when BTM will come in, B1149 makes sure it is never enabled, but it is important that the value is in a valid range.

Upshift RPMs are in Transmission Calibration -> Shift at RPM -> Upshift. Parameters D1127, D1128, and D1129. All set to 4800 in the tune you posted, I set the 1->2 and 2->3 to 5500 and 3->4 to 5200.

Hope this helps, you might have to play with the shift pressures if the truck bounces off the limiter at 5500 and doesnt shift for a second. I think he said it is not a shifting issue.The changes you made wont address his problem immediately.OP hog said it correct but schwoch1 is alsocorrect. You cant seem to be able to raise the rev limiter in your ecm. With the mods you have done to your truck you would really enjoy a 411 swap on that rig. You will be glad you did and never look back.

[mathis]

I dont really want it to shift that high, i just need it to eventually after i switch to the longer duration lunati cam. And it wont. If all the 350s can rev to 5600 why cant i? And iv thought about the 411 swap, but iv read about quite a few small problems with them. something about 4low not working correct? For the time being i would really like to get this pcm to rev. I will try changing that out of range parameter. But im not sure this effects the spark/fuel cut out point. As for the shift points. I will leave them where they are at untill i switch cams. thanks for taking the time to go over it however.

[mathis]

okay so in your tune b1152 is not set at 80000. That exceeds the efi live limit that you can put there. Mine was set at the upper limit that efi live allows. I really dont even know what that table means. How can apply rate units be ft lbs.

[slows10]

Ignore those tables

[schwoch1]

I dont really want it to shift that high, i just need it to eventually after i switch to the longer duration lunati cam. And it wont. If all the 350s can rev to 5600 why cant i? And iv thought about the 411 swap, but iv read about quite a few small problems with them. something about 4low not working correct? For the time being i would really like to get this pcm to rev. I will try changing that out of range parameter. But im not sure this effects the spark/fuel cut out point. As for the shift points. I will leave them where they are at untill i switch cams. thanks for taking the time to go over it however.

There have been a few incedences that 4 low would not shift correctly, most would shift too late causing the engine to bounce off the rev limiter before shifting. I am sure that there is a cure for that, just alot of people(IMO) don't really look into it too hard, as 4LO is used about .01% of the time in 99.9% of the trucks out there. I will say with a 100% certainty, your 454 would benefit greatly from a 411 PCM swap. It would open up alot of doors when it comes to tuning, namely Roadrunner.... once you use it, you will never go back to cutting and pasting corrections in your VE table!!! Most people with a reasonable amount of knowledge can perform the swap in a afternoon (I have) and have it tuned and running pretty good in several hours!!! That is the only way I see at the moment to get rid of your rev limiter, unless Ross or someone can get you the elusive table needed!!!???
Ditch the black box..... you won't be sorry!!!
Mike

[slows10]

Those have nothing to do with what your saying. If you have a stock cam in there now why do you need to rev it past 5000-5200 rpm. Imo 5600 is to high. You probably dont have enough airflow to support 5600 right now. Besides did you read the other posts? it looks like that ecm does not have that rev limit table. Also I think they have figured out every issue now with the 411 swap. Even the 4 low issue was fixed.

[schwoch1]

Those have nothing to do with what your saying. If you have a stock cam in there now why do you need to rev it past 5000-5200 rpm. Imo 5600 is to high. You probably dont have enough airflow to support 5600 right now. Besides did you read the other posts? it looks like that ecm does not have that rev limit table. Also I think they have figured out every issue now with the 411 swap. Even the 4 low issue was fixed.

I was thinking the same thing, a stock 454 can barely make it to 5K rpm.... GM forgot to put lift and duration on the cams they put in them.......and the heads leave a little to be desired too...Although, after his cam swap, then the engine will prolly pull up toa good 6K or so!!!!

Mike

[mathis]

okay.. I do NOT have a stock cam, or valve springs. my cam now is a comp 212/218. I also have ported the vortec heads that came on the truck, and they flow quite a bit better. i know this because i ported them myself and flowed them myself. For this cam the limiter is not a real problem because i want to shift right at about 4900 anyways. But since building the motor, i decided to put a stall in. So now I want a bigger cam. So i bought a lunati 231/239 that is waiting to go in. and this is why i want to be able to rev higher so i can shift at about 5500. I am having a hard time understanding why i cant achieve this with the pcm that i have, since the 350s use the same pcm? Is it the operating system? Im pretty new to efi live so please try to bare with me. Is there anyone else out there with a 454 that will rev past 5000? With this 411 pcm deal.. IF i decided to go through with it. where would i find a pcm at a resonable price? and the connectors? is there anything else i need? And as far as the 4 low thing goes. Mine wont even shift right with this pcm. I guess im in that 1 percent that uses it frequently. Thanks for all the help so far! Please keep in mind for the time being i would like to stick with this computer if at all possible.

[skills4lou]

I have the same setup (L29/blackbox), but my internals are all stock. I've never had mine to 4500rpm, and rarely get over 3K. So, I can't really help you with the higher revs. But, I've looked through MY tune, and I too can't find anything that would kill it at a certain rpm. Speed cutouts are there, and highly effective, but nothing that really points to "set this to x, and you'll rev to y".
I did consider doing the 411 swap before burning up a VIN License on my black box. But, for me I didn't think it would be worth it. My truck gets maybe 5k miles/year. Its not a show/race/high speed anything. I'm tuning it to get the best mpgs I can out of a thirsty BBC. If I happen to get better performance so be it, but that's not really what I'm after on THIS rig. Down the road....who knows. So I can understand you wanting to stick with the black box ecm. Hang in there, you'll get 'er figured out. As for the 411, most junk yards have 'em for dang cheap, and they'll usually let you take the connectors/harness if you ask nicely. I've know guys to do the whole swap for less than $100.

[ScarabEpic22]

I think he said it is not a shifting issue.The changes you made wont address his problem immediately.OP hog said it correct but schwoch1 is alsocorrect. You cant seem to be able to raise the rev limiter in your ecm. With the mods you have done to your truck you would really enjoy a 411 swap on that rig. You will be glad you did and never look back.

OK so if its not a shifting issue, then why wouldnt the changes I made fix his problem? He says it cant rev past 4800rpms, well his shift points were set to 4800 so of course its not going to go higher than that. There might not be a rev limiter table that we can access, but if the upshift tables let it rev past 4800 does it actually matter (and those serve as a rev limiter)?

Mathis, flash that tune in and see if it revs higher than 4800. If it does, then you can set the upshift at RPM tables to whatever you want and it will work (within reason). If it doesnt, then probably an 0411 PCM swap isnt a bad idea (or even if it does fix the issue).

[mathis]

Iv already tried that. iv set my shift rpms to 5200 but it still cuts out at the same 4900. Where may i find a good how to on the 411 swap. Also where would i get a tune for the 02 van with a 4l80, and how does one change the OS. one more thing. does a vortec 350 tune have a rev limiter setting? Why couldnt i just use a 350 Os or tune or whatever and change the displacement?

[ScarabEpic22]

Well for one EFILive doesnt support full flashing the Vortec PCMs so I dont believe you can use a 350 tune and change the tables to your 454 ones.

Didnt know you tried upping those tables, didnt catch that.

Contact Jeff (Lextech) via PM, he has the wiring diagrams you'll need to get the swap under way! As for the tune, holdencrazy.com under Stock Tunes has 02 Express Van tunes both with the 60E and 80E already on there. Completely stock files, just had the segment swap done for the 80E one. Lots of people say its painless, just unplug the pins from your Vortec PCM connectors and insert them into the LS1 PCM connectors (number/name them first of course).

[Chevy366]

OK so if its not a shifting issue, then why wouldnt the changes I made fix his problem? He says it cant rev past 4800rpms, well his shift points were set to 4800 so of course its not going to go higher than that. There might not be a rev limiter table that we can access, but if the upshift tables let it rev past 4800 does it actually matter (and those serve as a rev limiter)?

Mathis, flash that tune in and see if it revs higher than 4800. If it does, then you can set the upshift at RPM tables to whatever you want and it will work (within reason). If it doesnt, then probably an 0411 PCM swap isnt a bad idea (or even if it does fix the issue).
No Erik , those are shift points , rev limiters are usually "spark" or "fuel cut off" .
Have only had one experience with the Black Box PCM and wish I never had .
Do yourself a favor , 0411 PCM .

[ScarabEpic22]

No Erik , those are shift points , rev limiters are usually "spark" or "fuel cut off" .

I know, I was being overly hopeful that the actual rev limit was much higher in a hidden table and upping the WOT shift points would let it shift higher. Cant win all the time right? :)

[N0DIH]

Did you set the WOT shift table to higher? WOT Shift RPM and WOT Shift Speed (I usually leave the WOT Shift Speed down and let the WOT Shift RPM do the work).

The normal mode shift table will mess it up. Also, unset the TCC to not lock at WOT too.

[N0DIH]

Look at D1092, D1093 and D1094.

You can just go to manual 2 (unless you fixed manual low upshift) and rev and see if goes to higher than it was, just don't get near WOT.

[mathis]

Yeah iv tried that, still dont rev higher. And as for the tcc clutch. for some reason no matter what i set it at my truck still locks up at wot as soon as it shifts to 2nd, i am currently working with blackbear to fix that problem. Also i didnt relize about the not being able to full flash the vortec pcms. So i guess i will probably swap to the 411. I will pm lextech. Got a stupid question though. how the hell do you get the pins pulled out of the old connectors in tact in order to insert them in the new conectors? thanks alot men

[Taz]

Hello Mathis,

If you want to remove the pins / wires from the 4 Vortec PCM connectors, and port them over to the 2 LS1-B style connectors - you don’t require any special tools.

The pins pull straight out the back of the connector, once you release the plastic locking tab on the other side - I generally use a small screwdriver and / or my fingers. If you first remove the Red and Blue pieces of plastic from the LS1-B connectors, the “locking” mechanism for the pins will become readily apparent. Same goes for the Vortec connectors (Blue / Red / Clear / Black).

Installation is a simple “push to seat” exercise.


Regards,
Taz

[mathis]

sweet. sounds pretty straight forward. so basically any 01-02 gm v8 computer right?

[Taz]

The LS1-B PCM with service number 12200411 was used in 2001 & 2002. The most user friendly OS would be 12212156 from 2002. In a typical Vortec PCM swap (L31) this would require a tune from a 2002 Express / Savana. I have never participated in this swap with an L19 (454) - so I’m not sure what unique surprises (if any) await.


Regards,
Taz

[N0DIH]

Was looking inside some 99-00 PCM's, you can use them too, same processor/memory/clock. So buy whatever is cheaper.

L19 is the 95 and older TBI 454, L21 and L29 is the 96-2000 454.

[mathis]

Is it possible to get to new of a pcm. what is the year cut off?

[N0DIH]

2002 is newest you can use. 1999 is the oldest with the wiring diagrams that Lextech has done the hard work at detailing.

[mathis]

Alright so i bought a pcm and connnectors today. Its out of a 99 1500 with a 5.3. This should work just lovely shouldnt it? I can get numbers off of it if anyone can tell me wich one they need.

[ScarabEpic22]

Alright so i bought a pcm and connnectors today. Its out of a 99 1500 with a 5.3. This should work just lovely shouldnt it? I can get numbers off of it if anyone can tell me wich one they need.

Yep that will work just fine! Dont worry about the numbers, as long as it is a LS1 512kb PCM you're set. Use the OS Taz recommended for best performance, I believe you need to turn VATS off and do a few things but Jeff (Lextech) knows more about it than I do.

[mathis]

cool, thanks. was 60 dollars a good deal for the computer and connectors? What is VATS and how do i turn it off.

[N0DIH]

Need a tuner program like EFILive to turn it off. Yes, pretty good price (not stellar, my best is $10, without connectors, $35 with mount and connectors)

[mathis]

Hmm.. do i need or want the mount? I have efi live. Is it just a table within the express van tune i need to change?

[ScarabEpic22]

Dont know about the mount, and yes it is a table within the express van tune that you change.

[Chevy366]

VATS , Vehicle Anti Theft System , or something like that , G1201 if I remember right , <none> .

[Taz]

1999 Sierra / Silverado usually use LS1-B PCM service number 09354896. VATS parameters are found in G1201 - as indicated by Chevy366. VATS options are - None / PWM / Class-2.

If this is an engine conversion or “Hot Rod” then turning off the VATS is appropriate. If your 454 is still in the original 1999 truck, then you may want to consider leaving the VATS active, and configuring the PCM to link with the BCM (if they end up being compatible). This will keep your IPC completely functional - including the “Tow / Haul” indicator lamp (if so equipped).


Regards,
Taz

[hog]

Wow, I'm surprised that EFILive is so limited on the Vortec tuning. You actually have to swap the PCM to rev over 4800rpm. This is a software issue, not the PCM issue. These PCM's will support 5900rpm of rev limit, stock L31's 350's, 305 L30's are rev limited to 5600rpm stock, entering 6900rpm rev limits will still net you only 5912 rpm is the highest Ive seen on a blackbox. Kinda like the 7300-7400rpm hard limit of the LT1 OBD2 boxes.

If you swap to a 2000-2003 411 or the earlier 896 PCM, higher than 6000rpm rev limits can and have been attained with 305/350/454's.

I know of people that have L29 454's that have revved higher than 5000rpm, and they have posted in this thread, but tune with other software.

even if you are using the tuning software they and I are using, these PCM's wont allow for over 6000rpm rev limits.

I'm sure someone could wite a file for use with EFILive that could up the revs for this guy. A cax. file perhaps.

peace
Hog

[schwoch1]

Wow, I'm surprised that EFILive is so limited on the Vortec tuning. You actually have to swap the PCM to rev over 4800rpm. This is a software issue, not the PCM issue. These PCM's will support 5900rpm of rev limit, stock L31's 350's, 305 L30's are rev limited to 5600rpm stock, entering 6900rpm rev limits will still net you only 5912 rpm is the highest Ive seen on a blackbox. Kinda like the 7300-7400rpm hard limit of the LT1 OBD2 boxes.

If you swap to a 2000-2003 411 or the earlier 896 PCM, higher than 6000rpm rev limits can and have been attained with 305/350/454's.

I know of people that have L29 454's that have revved higher than 5000rpm, and they have posted in this thread, but tune with other software.

even if you are using the tuning software they and I are using, these PCM's wont allow for over 6000rpm rev limits.

I'm sure someone could wite a file for use with EFILive that could up the revs for this guy. A cax. file perhaps.

peace
Hog

Do you have a L29 big block file in HPTuners format? I have HP Tuners also, and I want to make sure that they have the rev. limit function for this particular cal in their software, just for my own well being. Last time I used HP Tuners for a Vortec black box PCM, there was damn near nothing to tune with there either!!!

Mike

[hog]

Do you have a L29 big block file in HPTuners format? I have HP Tuners also, and I want to make sure that they have the rev. limit function for this particular cal in their software, just for my own well being. Last time I used HP Tuners for a Vortec black box PCM, there was damn near nothing to tune with there either!!!

Mike
Sorry man, I dont use that software either. I use Tunercat OBD2, the old school version, not R/T Roadrunner equipped..theres a few hundred parameters/tables supported for each of the blackbox Vortec 4.3/5.0/5.7/7.4 engines 96-00.

peace
Hog

[schwoch1]

Sorry man, I dont use that software either. I use Tunercat OBD2, the old school version, not R/T Roadrunner equipped..theres a few hundred parameters/tables supported for each of the blackbox Vortec 4.3/5.0/5.7/7.4 engines 96-00.

peace
Hog
Yah, I wish TunerCat didn't sell out to JET, cause Jet's tech support sucks. I use TC non-OBD2 software for odds and ends, haven't used it in a while, not too much OBD1 stuff out their lately. I will say the user interface is not quite as user friendly as EFI Live or HP Tuners, but there are a ton of tables to be had!!! If used TC OBD2 cable and program were not so damn expensive and hard to get, I would consider getting it for myself also!!!

Mike

[pullincrazy88]

I have done the 411 swap with my L29 454 and actually am running a comp cams extereme energy set up with a set of there roller rockers also and ported stock heads. Idk if you have had time to do the swap yet but I promise you won't me disapointed! Even untuned the motor should feel more alive. Mine you could tell right after the swap that it sounded more alive and not so "flat". If you run into a non starting issue after the install and can here a clicking or power back feeding through the speakers with the key off you have to add two ground wires, one to each connector. I grounded one to the battery and one to the body. Can't remember which pin number it was right now though.