B3601 Ethanol Fuel Testing Experiment

[WeathermanShawn]

Finally got curious and spent ~ $30.00 to test out the Ethanol content of my local gas station.

1. Shell 91 Octane-'Nitrogen Enriched' gas. (Highest Octane you can get in Colorado).
2. Pump states " Up to 10 percent Ethanol".

Test results: E8

Modified B3601 to Read: 14.2262
B3618: 1:16 EQ..~ 12.25 AFR

From left to right (in photo).

1. Fuel Dispenser Bottle. Allows you to safely pour gasoline from approved container into an easily pour-able bottle.
2. Fuel Tester Stand. Here you mix a precise amount of water ( 1 teaspoon) into container, followed by ~ 1 Tablespoon of fuel.
3. "Quick Check Solution'. Detects alcohol. Colors alcohol blue.
4. Safety gloves.

So you put a small rubber end (supplied) into the Fuel Tester and shake vigorously. You let it stand for about 30 minutes. You then read Ethanol content on a scale on the front of the Dispenser.

Comments: Technically you could devise a method to do this at home using your own supplies. The scale was incremented every 5% so it was a little hard to read.

Tune-wise I did a CALC.VE using 14.68 as my value in B3601 (using same fuel as test). I then adjusted B3601 to 14.22. My Trims went from -1.3 to -4.4%. Overall then my MAF & CALC.VE lowered by the same 3% to maintain the same LTFT ratio.

Overall an interesting test. While as Tuners we all agree AFR is not the value we should tune by, you still have to use it in B3601. I.E., you still have to understand the relationship between Lambda, EQ, and AFR.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/weathermanshawn/Picture.jpg

[nevinsb]

9.76 was what I remember for the AFR from e85, but I stopped using AFR after I went to e85. I would recommend changing your default units to EQ.

[WeathermanShawn]

9.76 was what I remember for the AFR from e85, but I stopped using AFR after I went to e85. I would recommend changing your default units to EQ.

Thanks. My default units are EQ. B3601 must always be entered in AFR..that's how your Tune computes EQ.:).

But, I get your point. I only showed PE AFR for display. I don't use it either.

I was just curious if others have tested also..

[mr.prick]

Modified B3601 to Read: 14.2262
B3618: 1:16 EQ..~ 12.25 AFR

Does my Math look O.K?

(14.2262/1.16) = 12.263965517241379310344827586207

You're off a little. :laugh:

[WeathermanShawn]

(14.2262/1.16) = 12.263965517241379310344827586207

You're off a little. :laugh:

Good one mr.prick!:grin:.

[joecar]

Shawn, can you post pics of what all comes with the test kit.

[Chevy366]

Yeah the E content can be subjective from station to station and even pump to pump .
FYI , there is DIY Ethanol stuff all over the internet and has been for years now .

[sixltrbtr]

Nice kit. Who makes it?

[joecar]

...
Overall an interesting test. While as Tuners we all agree AFR is not the value we should tune by, you still have to use it in B3601. I.E., you still have to understand the relationship between Lambda, EQ, and AFR.Good observation...

B3601 (stoichiometric AFR) is what converts the final commanded EQIVRATIO to fuelmass grams.

To have a fighting chance, a tuner has to understand the relationship between Lambda/EQR/AFR and stoichiometric AFR.

[joecar]

For anyone reading along, this relationship has to be understood:

AFR = STOICH_AFR * Lambda = STOICH_AFR / EQR

and, that relationship applies separately in each of commanded and measured contexts;

when you cross contexts you get a correction BEN factor (if you cross correctly):

i.e. BEN is all of these:
BEN = commanded EQR * measured Lambda
BEN = commanded EQR / measured EQR
BEN = measured Lambda / commanded Lambda
BEN = 1 / (measured EQR * commanded Lambda)
. . .
and other combinations using AFR.

The easiest BEN to obtain is the first one listed above.

[joecar]

...
I guess the Ethanol sinks in your gas tank just like in the kit. Without making a political statement, I am not that sure the alcohol content is that great of a thing..

I don't like alcohol in my fuel system, alcohol behaves as a oxidant/oxidizer.

[joecar]

Well without violating EFILive's advertising policies..Google..Ethanol Fuel test kits..

...It's not an unsolicited link nor a link to material unrelated to the thread topic...

so it's ok in this context (e.g. compare it to links to Innovate/PLX/AEM vs viagra/gambling/other).

[ScarabEpic22]

...I guess the Ethanol sinks in your gas tank just like in the kit. Without making a political statement, I am not that sure the alcohol content is that great of a thing..

I agree with you, but didnt you say you added a teaspoon of water to the fuel? That will definitely help separate the ethanol from the pure gasoline and the reason everyone says ethanol "enhanced" fuel has a short shelf life (like 90 days I think?). The ethanol separates from the gasoline and then you're sucking pure ethanol, water, then gasoline into your engine.

My dad has always stored our boats with full gas tanks so condensation doesnt form in the tanks. But now that ethanol fuels exist, we've gone to leaving them almost empty with StaBil in there to help fight condensation. Then put fresh gas in the tank in the spring, both boats seem to run better when doing this on the first tank. Before they'd be slow and down on power.


Thanks for testing your gas Shawn, I run Shell 91/92, Chevron 91, or Conoco 92 all the time in both of my TrailBlazers. Good to know that the advertised E10 can be lower!

[mr.prick]

Good one mr.prick!:grin:.

mr.prick, not to pry into your personal or professional life..but do you work midnights or are you always up this time of day? I see you occasionally post up at that 3-5 AM AZ time..just curious..

I work 3pm - 3am. (http://www.ruger.com/)

[WeathermanShawn]

It's not an unsolicited link nor a link to material unrelated to the thread topic...so it's ok in this context (e.g. compare it to links to Innovate/PLX/AEM vs viagra/gambling/other).

I used this product:http:///www.fueltestkit.com/ (http://www.fueltestkit.com/)


I agree with you, but didnt you say you added a teaspoon of water to the fuel? That will definitely help separate the ethanol from the pure gasoline and the reason everyone says ethanol "enhanced" fuel has a short shelf life (like 90 days I think?). The ethanol separates from the gasoline and then you're sucking pure ethanol, water, then gasoline into your engine.

Ohhh.now that makes sense. Thanks, Erik..I have a better mental picture of it now..


I work 3pm - 3am. (http://www.ruger.com/)

Nice.

[Aloicious]

nice, I've been thinking about doing this too, I typically get my fuel from the same station and pump at the same time of day about 60% of the time when I fill up so it would be nice to do some kind of spot check on it. even compare various stations in the area.

[Aloicious]

I work 3pm - 3am. (http://www.ruger.com/)

you work at ruger? cool! I work 12 hour 7p-7a graves myself and love it.

[nevinsb]

Since this thread already got derailed, I had to work 12 on 24 off before my hours were changed from 24 on 48 off. I love my 10/22 BTW, customer service is great too from when I had to send it in for repair because the pin for the firing pin was drilled in the wrong place and dented the barrel

[mr.prick]

12 on 24 off:
I can stay up 24hrs but that's the limit.
I don't think I could work the whole 24hrs either.

What was this thread about? :hihi:

[Chevy366]

What was this thread about? :hihi:
Shawn posting info that is years old and has been discussed all over the internet years before . :hihi:
But that is Shawn , all his stuff is new and important . :hihi:
Sturm , Ruger makes some real nice toys have a few of my own .
Varnish is the big thing with Ethanol fuels , they tend to make a brown gunk that wreaks havoc on carbs .

[joecar]

What was this thread about? :hihi:What thread...? :doh2::hihi: