COS 5 Help Needed Here...Please

[tatasta]

Hello,
I am running a P1SC Procharger on my 99 T/A with COS 5 SD. The car runs 7-8# of boost, using a 2 Bar MAP, 60# Motron injectors, P&P 243 heads, LS6 intake, TR 224-112 cam and the MAF is disabled.
Since I logged the attached data, I have fixed the high ECT problem (wiring instructions included with Procharger fan had polarity reversed).
The main issues I have are:

- When coasting, the car acts like the cruise control is set at 35-40 mph and after you come to a stop the car idles at ~1200rpm for a few seconds before it drops to 900rpm, which is still higher than the target 750-800 it is set to.
This is annoying and I have no idea where to start.

- While coasting, my AFR goes to ~ 12:1. When I give it any throttle, it will get back to 14:1 to 14.6:1.
DFCO? I did log a couple of idle pids for airflow. I hope they help.

- Before the supercharger, I had a very good N/A tune done with CALC.VE. I used AUTOVE to get to this point with the supercharger.
I feel nervous to smooth the main and boost VE tables very much. I could really use a little guidance. WOT above 105kpa, my AFR drops to ~ 9.2:1 and timing is retarded to 13*. I would guess ECT is affecting these to some level.

Anyway, I am new to FI SD tuning and any help would really be appreciated.

Thank you

[L31Sleeper]

Check out this file. B0120 was set at stock, that won't work with a SD tune.
What type/brand of WBO2 are you using, digital or analog ?

-Justin

[tatasta]

Thank you for the reply.
I am using an analog NGK AFX. I will check out your file.
Thank you again

[johnv]

Here is a file i've made a few changes for you.

also need some more information to calc your injector flow rate ( yours looks off a bit)
what is your fuel pressure and is it static or rising rate ?
Adding the CAX file so you can lower the minimum transient pulse width may also help with rich decel/idle mixtures

Your high idle and cruise control effect will be comming from your cam, you will need to log your RAFIG and apply your results to your RAFIG table and also check your IAC counts are around 40-60 at idle.

Get you IFR table were it should be , then work on your VE and then Boost VE tables.

I also prefer to have close to NA timing tables, and use the Boost timing table to remove timing when in boost.
you have yours zerrowed out and are pulling timing from the main spark tables reducing timing and therfore power before you enter boost.

[tatasta]

Here is a file i've made a few changes for you.

also need some more information to calc your injector flow rate ( yours looks off a bit)
what is your fuel pressure and is it static or rising rate ?
Adding the CAX file so you can lower the minimum transient pulse width may also help with rich decel/idle mixtures

Your high idle and cruise control effect will be comming from your cam, you will need to log your RAFIG and apply your results to your RAFIG table and also check your IAC counts are around 40-60 at idle.

Get you IFR table were it should be , then work on your VE and then Boost VE tables.

I also prefer to have close to NA timing tables, and use the Boost timing table to remove timing when in boost.
you have yours zerrowed out and are pulling timing from the main spark tables reducing timing and therfore power before you enter boost.

Thanks for the help. I will get started on the changes on friday.
I will post up Friday afternoon.

Thanks again!

[johnv]

Is your fuel pressure static ? pressure 58 psi ?

Just so i can check your IFR table figures.

[tatasta]

[QUOTE=johnv;142265]Is your fuel pressure static ? pressure 58 psi ?

Just so i can check your IFR table figures.[/QUOTE

Sorry. I run a Racetronix pump that is 70psi @ idle and about 60-62psi @ WOT

[johnv]

here you go new IFR table values, so your VE table will be off and need reworking.

[tatasta]

johnv,

I searched around but, I am not really sure what "Adding the CAX file so you can lower the minimum transient pulse width may also help with rich decel/idle mixtures" means.

Can you give me a little info on that?

Thank you

[johnv]

Here is some reading for you

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9135-Expanded-Support-for-Transient-Fuel.&highlight=cax

[L31Sleeper]

B0120 was set at stock, that won't work with a SD tune.

I was wrong about this, the PCM will ignore MAF tables once it fails it.

I think a serial WBO2 might give you better results.

[5.7ute]

johnv,

I searched around but, I am not really sure what "Adding the CAX file so you can lower the minimum transient pulse width may also help with rich decel/idle mixtures" means.

Can you give me a little info on that?
Thank you
In short, a cax file allows you to edit parameters not normally visible in the tune tool. There is a parameter that I have defined as minimum transient pulsewidth (B9021) that will prevent the PCM from commanding a short enough pulsewidth to get idle & decel fuelling in line. I dont have efilive on this pc so I cannot look at your file atm to see if it has been defined for your OS but will have a look later tonight.
If you have rich decel, this as well as too much cracker air will give you major cruise control type issues.
If you use B9021 in search & read the few threads on this and pulsewidth contribution to give you an idea on what is going on.

[joecar]

B9021 should be the only one that is needed (via cax file), since all the others have been included in the calibration definitions by Ross.

[tatasta]

B9021 should be the only one that is needed (via cax file), since all the others have been included in the calibration definitions by Ross.


Hey joecar,

I guess I still don't understand where to place cax file. Not sure what to do there. Not much info from my search.

johnv,

Thanks for the tune file. The car worked alot better. Ran the AUTOVE and got some good data. I posted up my last tune and log file. Not sure whether I am logging the right data for idle. It does idle better in park or in gear at a stop but still has cruise control effect at 30-35 mph.

Also, when I get on it hard from a stop or slow speed, the trans does not make the shift from first to second and hits the rev limiter. Fluid is full. I understand that it simply may not be able to handle the power but, is there any tuning I can do to help it?

Thanks to all for the help.

[joecar]

Hi Robert,

Copy the .cax file for your OS to the folder C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Calibrations.

When you open the tunetool, the new tables defined in the cax file shows up in the tunetool.

[tatasta]

Hi Robert,

Copy the .cax file for your OS to the folder C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Calibrations.

When you open the tunetool, the new tables defined in the cax file shows up in the tunetool.

I guess my trouble is that I don't seem to have a calibrations folder in V7.5. Do I need to create one?

[johnv]

can be a bit confusing...C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Calibrations

you need to find the "EFILive" file in C:/"program files"............. not "Documents"

[joecar]

Yes, under Program Files rather than My Documents.

[johnv]

RE the trans,
I would put some torque reduction back in on your 1-2 shift (DO801),
and maybe lower the shift RPM on the 1-2 shift (DO940) to give the trans more time to complete the shift.

can you post your std tune file so we can compare and see what you've done.

[tatasta]

can be a bit confusing...C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Calibrations

you need to find the "EFILive" file in C:/"program files"............. not "Documents"

oh my god...how embarrassing. got it now.

[joecar]

Nah... it's just confusing at times. :doh2:

[tatasta]

RE the trans,
I would put some torque reduction back in on your 1-2 shift (DO801),
and maybe lower the shift RPM on the 1-2 shift (DO940) to give the trans more time to complete the shift.

can you post your std tune file so we can compare and see what you've done.

Yes. Tune 009 is the starting point. Tune 010 has a few changes to the VE tables.

Also, thank you for the feedback on the trans issue. Are you referencing the D1108, D1109 and D1110 tables?

Thanks

[johnv]

Starting to get there, not tracking to bad out of boost, but still very rich over 115kpa (2 psi boost)

I've taken some fuel out of boost VE table and made a few changes to trans in attached file.

Can you log "idle air control position"

Do you have the std factory tune file ? Flash it in (calibration only)and read it, save the tune (this will save it as a COS so we can compare all the changes that have been made)
Then go back to your current tune file.

[tatasta]

Starting to get there, not tracking to bad out of boost, but still very rich over 115kpa (2 psi boost)

I've taken some fuel out of boost VE table and made a few changes to trans in attached file.

Can you log "idle air control position"

Do you have the std factory tune file ? Flash it in (calibration only)and read it, save the tune (this will save it as a COS so we can compare all the changes that have been made)
Then go back to your current tune file.

Here is a log based on your last file. I also dropped the VSS and RPM shift points but it is still shifting at too high of an RPM. Seemed better but still too high. The WOT AFR above 105kpa is better.
Also, I logged the IAC steps. I was messing with the steps in the first 3000 frames so, don't mind those.

Also note that the tune name has changed.

Thanks for the help

[johnv]

give this a go

[tatasta]

give this a go

I will load it up tomorrow. Thanks for the help. Should I enable LTFT after this? I think my VE is getting pretty close.
Also, should I lower my IAC counts vs tq?
The car pulls pretty hard. I found a few areas that are pulling timing. Should I go back to a N/A type timing table and use boost timing to reduce?

Thank you
Robert

[tatasta]

give this a go

Also, it appears that my speedo calibrations were off. I reloaded EFI Live to Windows 7 and looks like tire size etc were wrong after new OS.

[tatasta]

johnv,

Log based on your last tune file.
Running pretty good. Idle still pushing a little and shift RPMs still a bit high. I can work on those.
WOT AFR getting pretty close. My timing is still retarding to 13* at WOT. What do you suggest to straighten up the timing? My target is 17* at WOT.

Tune001 and log included

Thank you for the help!

[johnv]

I would leave trims disabled for now , and work some more on your VE tables.
still running rich at higher boost levels and going rich on decelleration (did you load CAX file) if so reduce "minimum transient pulse width" to same as "minimum injector pulse width" in tune.

Get the fueling as close as possible first, then start playing with timing.
And yes, I like to use close to NA timing tables then use Boost timing table to pull timing down to safe level during boost.

[tatasta]

Well, WOT AFR is looking better and spark is getting closer. Can someone post the proper cax file minimum injector pulse width for COS 5 again? I can't for the life of me seem to get the cax file to work. I am lost on this.
I lowered minimum pulse width on Tune 3 vs Tune 2 and lowered IAC steps. Idle is a bit better.

[tatasta]

Ok. I got the cax file in the right place, finally. The one I loaded has B9012 and B9014 but not B9021 so I will search around.
The last drive, when the car idles in gear, not moving at 0% TPS it idles around 880rpm. I can let off the brake and still at 0% TPS the idle will not go up even at 7-9 mph. But, as soon as I touch the throttle, the idle jumps to 1250rpm and will stay there until I stop the car. I guess the question is whether it this is a pulse width problem, airflow problem or a problem related to what the VSS is reporting.
If I could get the idle, I would be pretty close.

[tatasta]

Got B9021 I think.

[johnv]

Ok we can't see B9021 in your tune file without loading the CAX file for your operating system.

If you can now see that table , set it to the same as minimum pulse width (0.592722)

I think your idle problem is more airflow related, the transient minimum pulse width will help with the rich decel.

I will PM you a guide i put together for basic idle setup.

[joecar]

Robert, please post the .cax file you have (I want to sanity check it).

[tatasta]

joecar,

Here is the cax I used.

[tatasta]

johnv,

I got the idle alot better. I logged RAFIG & RAPN. Just not real sure what to do with the data. How should I apply the results to the airflow table? Also, I adjusted the IAC steps by unplugging TPS and turning set screw clockwise just under one full revolution.

Anyway, thanks for the help. Cruise control effect is basically gone. Idle is still a bit surgy.

-Bob

[joecar]

Robert,

I'm sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner...

You can delete your existing cax file, some of those parameters have been included in the 12212156/02020005 calibration definition...

You want B9021, see attached cax file...

Or, if you really want all those definitions (they will be duplicates, that's ok, they won't hurt anything), you can copy/paste the [B9021] block from the attached cax file into your existing cax file (copy every line between the rows of equal signs, and then paste that block at the end of your file)... if you look closely at your cax file you will see the structure of it, each block has an id enclosed in square brackets followed by a dozen or so lines defining what/where the parameter is.

[johnv]

Ok have applied it for you, but for future ref you copy results with lables from RAFIG and RAFIPN maps and paste with lables and "add" to the tables in your tune.

the surging is probably timing related , log where its surging and try adding a bit of timing in the main timing tables in that area.

[tatasta]

johnv and joecar,

Thank you guys for all of the help. The car is really coming together. I think once the idle is dialed in, I will transition boost timing to the A0010 table. I plan to go out and log some data today. The sun is actually shining here today.
The trans still is having trouble shifting 1-2. It seems like it blows right past its shift points. Probably slipping, I guess. My wife is just getting over supercharger sticker shock. So, new trans shock is gonna be trouble.
Also, is the plan to re-enable LTFTs once the VE is dialed in?

Thanks again
- Bob

[johnv]

Good to here its all coming together,
yes once your happy with your main VE table you can re enable LTFTs, you are aiming to see fueltrims in the 1-2 % range and preferably -ve as +ve fuel trims are added to total fueling in PE mode and can cause inconsistant fueling when in PE, (-ve trims are not added).

RE the trans , all you can do is add more torque reduction and lower the WOT shift RPM and MPH in an attempt to get it to complete the shift
in time (just a band aid tho) Start saving for a beefed up trans.

[joecar]

Good to hear it is converging :cheers:

Log the pid GM.TRQENG... it should be high when any significant load is applied... the trans pressure is calculated/looked up from calculated torque.

[tatasta]

Idle is alot better. Once the car is driven around, it runs great. After I park for a while and restart, I get alot of surging. Not sure what the problem is there. It seem to heat up a little under light loads (coasting). I think timing is a bit far advanced. It is running around 32-33* at 2000-2200 rpm and light load. I can fix that.
As far as the trans goes, the TFMPRS is hitting 90 at high TPS. I think that is good. Any trans help would be appreciated.
I have lost some boost. Max MAP on this run was ~127kpa vs the usual 135kpa. I need to go through and re-torque clamps and check drive belt tension.
Anyway, any guidance would be great!!
Thanks
Bob