Northern Va Tuner

[NASABlue]

Have EFI live and LC-1 wideband installed on a 97 head cam corvette and was looking for someone to properly tune my car. I have tried a popular option in va beach, but was very disapointed with the incomplete job and poor results.

Any help is appreciated,

Thanks
Ray
703-944-4635

[WeathermanShawn]

Ray I am sure some vendors can help you out..but why not learn yourself?

A majority of us started with little acquired knowledge..only qualifications needed are interest and persistence.

Here are a few 'reads' to get you going. I think I even throw in a 'free' Tune on one of them..:).

Idle:http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14439-Idle-Tips-amp-Tricks
Tuning:http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-A-New-Twist-on-CALC.-VE-Table..Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table.

Good luck either way..

[ScarabEpic22]

Hi Ray, the method Shawn has developed is pretty dang easy to pick up. Im tuning an 02 5.3L Suburban with just the narrowband O2 sensors and its already picking up a little power and mpg using the Calc.VE method. The new Calc.VET is even better, but I didnt want to put a WBO2 on this truck. If you have a WBO2, EFILive V1/V2, you can get the VE dialed in pretty quickly. Spark should really be done on a load bearing dyno, especially with your mods.

Have you considered a 99-02 PCM swap for more tables and tuning options (COS, etc)? One of the benefits of the 97-98 LS1 PCMs is they are free to tune with EFILive (no PCM licenses needed, all V1/V2s have the 97-98 LS1A stream enabled), but 99-02 PCMs have better table resolution and COS availability.

[NASABlue]

I would love to learn, when I really had the time to try a few years ago when I got it, I just couldn't get all the pieces together to be successful. from August to december of 09, the car sat waiting to be tuned and it just wasn't happening. I wanted to get back to track events and become a hpde instructor, get a racing liscense and have fun with the car. I got someone to tune it, but it isn't right. It still makes me mad the effort I went through to get it there and they wouldn't let me witness the tune and after 4 days so they could "dial in the cold starts", they still never tuned the maf, the low end drivability sucks, and the car doesn't behave as well in certian wheather.

I'll take a look at the supplimental write ups and see what I can remember from the last try, hopefully it connetcs the dots.

About the computer, I've looked at swapping out to a better unit, I know there are significant advantages to upgrades, but I'm only ever going to run N/A and I would really like to see a gilmmer of success in tunign the existing before "splicing in faith"... call me a doubting Thomas which is much better than Judas... Easter appropriate referance

I'm going to have to brush up on my acronyms, COS and the like. I'm not worried about burning credits, I was actually thinking of trying another format which forces credits, so certainly the $100 or whatever in credits it would "cost" wouldn't hold me back.

I just want someone to be honest about tuning my car and maybe work with me so I can have a tune timed for 93 and 98 or 100 octane. When the time comes, I'll need to do it for reducing the cam as well, so developing a good relationship with someone is important, but I would certainly like to learn to do more myself as well. Ultimately, I don't want to loose track time messing around with a stupid lap top perched on my passenger seat blasting my race exhaust through police/sherrif/trooper/fbi/cia/tsa/dhs/ss infested Northern Virginia... for what to go to court because I was tuning my "race car". So thats the reason for leaning towards paying someone for their skills directly than have it taken out of my pocket in some other way and be left no better off.

[L31Sleeper]

EFI Live Doesn't use "credits" the way HP Tuner does. Once you have "licensed" a PCM all
features of EFI Live are free. If you changed PCMs you need to use another one.
It's kinda sad that these stories pop up all over the place. Post your tune file.

[NASABlue]

here's the tune

[WeathermanShawn]

NasaB:

Lot of truth in what you are saying. Unfortunately I have learned no one loves your car better than yourself..I.E. the best Tuner will always be yourself.

Your set-up is not that far from mine. So far no tickets, wrecks, or nervous breakdowns.:grin:.

My best advice for a D.I.Y. tuner is to start off with closed-loop (using your NB's). Easy, takes an afternoon to tune if that..add a Wideband and its done..

Good luck either way..:).

[NASABlue]

Got the wideband, bought and installed the whole thing when I rebuilt the car... I got a wheel bearing and cracked rotor to change out, yep I was having fun last weekend :)

I've seen your posts around and appreciate your time.

THanks for the support.

[L31Sleeper]

WOW this file has the "classic" mistakes that I learned about at EFI University.

Do you have a dyno sheet ? Do you know what RPM peak torque is ?

[NASABlue]

10480

looks like 4800 rpm

[NASABlue]

btw my cam doesn't have the posted lift in the signature .585 intake, .589 exhaust, not that it matters

whats the classic mistakes? lol I'm afraid to ask...

[L31Sleeper]

Check out this file, you can run it if you like. It won't be spot on but it will
be a good base tune that either your new tuner or yourself can work from.
Most of those basic issues have been corrected, max power might be down
a few but driveability should be MUCH improved.

[NASABlue]

I've been reading through Shawn's posts and it's starting to come back, off to give it a try...

[ScarabEpic22]

Yep, those spark tables are hacked big time. The tune L31Sleeper posted is much better, although I bet you'll be able to dial it in better when you're tuning it Rich.

Check out Shawn's Calc.VET method. As he said, an afternoon and your VE/MAF tables will be dead on. Make sure you log the appropriate PIDs when doing it, Ive got a few logs that are worthless because I forgot some crucial PIDs. You can also use those logs to adjust the spark tables, open up the Knock Reduction MAP and then you can copy/subtract those from the Scan tool over to your spark maps.

[WeathermanShawn]

Thanks Erik..

Ray, I must say nice HP/TQ on your dyno run. AFR's were a little 'off', but stout combo.

I have not totally looked over Sleeper's Tune..but looking at your original..a few comments.

1. Looks like a Speed Density, closed-loop Tune, with MAF & LTFT's disabled.
2. High-Low Octane Spark copied (necessary in a non-COS SD Tune).
3. Throttle Cracker zeroed out (..thats mainly preference).
4. Some Idle tricks (PE Mode at Idle).

A couple nice things about having your MAF-enabled is that you can have differing High-Low Octane Spark Maps. So if you get any KR, your PCM can adjust to the 'right' spark. Personally I like LTFT's enabled..essentially they are just STFT's averaged over time.

I think it was a nice dyno run..please check out the CALC.VET. Your actual VE Table looks pretty good, but you might benefit from a nice MAF/SD hybrid Tune..(aka re-enabling the MAF). Your stock MAF should be fine, especially with your increased injector flow.

Let us know..

[ScarabEpic22]

Oh yea thats right, with no 97-98 COS running SD means you only have the low octane spark table and no adaptive spark. Right there is an incentive to upgrade to a 99-02 PCM and through COS3 or COS5 at it. Don't they default to the Backup VE table too?

As Shawn said, your setup could use the MAF just fine. Then you'd get adaptive spark (and maybe the Main VE table) back as well. Thats assuming you have it and it fits into your intake setup.

[L31Sleeper]

Here ya go MAF and LTFT enabled, sorry I over looked that I normally don't disable those
unless in a AutoVE tune which is only for tuning purposes.

[NASABlue]

Thank you gentlemen!
I'll get a log posted back up in short time.

[L31Sleeper]

Any updates?

[NASABlue]

10499

The log isn't that long, but I'm trying to make sure I have the pids set up correctly. I'm getting an error message thatg not all of the selected pids have readings or something to that effect.

[NASABlue]

10504
better log!

What a difference in drivability starting off with the light weight clutch! It felt as close to stock as I've felt in YEARS!!!!

I stalled it a couple of times but as I drove it, it seemed to do better. May be the LTFT were learning up.

The car isn't nearly as lumpy at idle, much less surging and bucking. I had to put it in 4th at 30 mph to induce anything, thenit wasn't consistent in bucking or lugging. It would do it once or twice then it was harder to repeat.

Thank you doesn't seem to be enough... I would like to keep working on it and get it 100% and learn a little more along the way.

[L31Sleeper]

Um.....try this PID file, this should gather more useful information.
Can we get a road test ?? Is this car even streetable ?

[L31Sleeper]

If you like I can whip up a Auto VE tune with the MAF and Closed loop disabled.
Since you already have a Wide band O2 it should only take a couple of trips to
get the VE table right on.

[L31Sleeper]

In this file MAF and all fuel trim is disabled, that way when you log a run
you are only getting data from the VE table. Use the Auto VE PID file I posted.

[NASABlue]

Perfect, I'll give it a shot.

[L31Sleeper]

Is this a 1/4 mile car, road race car, plain old american sports car ??

[NASABlue]

Road race/hpde/track days car

[L31Sleeper]

OOOoooo so you need a killer mid range to pull you through the corner and come flying out.
No wonder you were disappointed with that tune, many tuners take the fastest route to the
highest HP number expecting that, that is what will make the customer happy.

[NASABlue]

Exactly, the mid range And low end is what I went for in the build, high compression, small runner, etc. I have a fast 92 lid and ls3 tb sitting on the shelf because the power it has is hard enough to control. In fact I have the tune info sheet that has written on it "tune for low end torque for road racing". If I ever wanted more power, I could take off the lg cats as well which should help with the scavenging overlap of the cam, well that was my original intention. Now that I'm looking at competition, I don't want to be in that power to weight ratio class for several reasons, mAinly budget and being a novice at actual competition.

I have no desire to rev the car to the moon road racing with the r lobed cam. Eventually, I'll have to look a a max torque cam that limits hp to ~409. The rules only do poser to weight with hp, so I'll take as much torque as possible.

[L31Sleeper]

So it's a "take your word for it" class right, I mean the tech inspectors can't dyno the car ??
In that type of class the guys at the front get all the attention, If you have 1000hp and come
in last nobody really cares.

[NASABlue]

10599

I'll get some better data, but wanted to confirm pids are reading as intended.

Once it warmed up, it was having a tough time holding an idle towards the end of the log.

I cleared my fuel trims before the run because I remember doing this before, is this correct?

I forgot to disconnect the MAF, is this an issues if we set the maf to no read in for auto ve?

To answer an old post: The car is not very streetable, but it somehow maintains tags and inspection...
And your right about the racing 1000 hp and last place (which is probably where you would end up trying to keep that type of power on the track) doesn't gain any attention except shame


Thanks!

[L31Sleeper]

All trims are disabled, so clearing that data won't hurt anything. The MAF can stay pluged in
the PCM will ignore it's data but it can still be data logged. Is the LC1 connected ??
I've gotten so used to BBL (black box logging) with the V2 by it self.

[L31Sleeper]

I'm thinking that e-mail might be faster/more direct.

Justin@EFIMuscle.com
323-317-7432