stall converters! what needs to be adjusted? (4l60E)

[SimpleManLance]

I've had efi live for a couple years now but never really put much use to it till now. I got a 2005 1500 ccsb z71. Its bone stock with 3.42 gears. the other day i installed a built trans that has a vette servo, OD servo, superior shift kit and a trailblazer stall (I6 converter). i zeroed out the shift times to get rid of the adaptive learning and took out 50% TM in D0801, D0802 then disabled D0301. i figured i would start there and work on the shift points. the problem is the truck wont lock the converter at all. so im assuming in my searching on here i'm missing what adjustments i need to be made for the new converter.

is there a stall tutorial out there that i'm missing? or can someone explain to me what needs to be adjusted?

thanks


here is my tune10834

[ChipsByAl]

Do you have any DTC's? Is the truck misfiring? When you are logging, does the PCM show the TCC is getting commanded on? Can you post a stock tun file.
Al

[Taz]

Record a log with the PIDs listed in the linked thread below ...

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16332-TCC-Tuning-Issue&p=144894&viewfull=1#post144894

As Al stated in post #2 - misfiring will prevent TC lockup.

Took a very quick look at your tune - TCC apply / release seem OK (curves don't cross). Attached below is your tune but with the TCC PWM and Pressure Apply Rate adjusted.


Regards,
Taz

[SimpleManLance]

Al here is the stock tune. 10836

when i first start the truck up i get a rough idle. then the check engine light flashes.

P0060- HO2S Heater Resistance (Bank 2, Sensor 2)
P0131- Oxygen O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1, Sensor 1)
P0161- Oxygen O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 2, Sensor 2)
P0300- Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected

all these started since the trans swap.

when i took the truck for the spin i cleared the codes and drove it. thats when i realized it wasnt locking the converter.

i dont have a log yet.

[SimpleManLance]

just started the truck again with the codes cleared and P0161 and P0300 came back on.

[Taz]

P0300 is a general misfire detected DTC - a cylinder specific DTC is always helpful. I have had DTCs similar to P0161 (Heater Performance Bank 2 sensor 2) set as a result of a misfire - in your case it looks like raw fuel may be entering the cat on that bank. In my experience, if you address the root cause of the misfire, the cat related DTC will also be resolved - unless the rear O2 sensor on that bank coincidentally failed / arrived at its service life.

Until you get the misfire sorted out the TC will not lock.


Regards,
Taz

[SimpleManLance]

thanks taz. where should i start to look for the misfire? spark plugs?

[Taz]

In my opinion one of the first investments that should be made in any project is a quality Service Manual - few people actually seem to do this. A good manual will quickly "pay for itself" in reduced down time, frustration, and decreased out sourcing of work / repairs.

A generic manual (Hayes / Chilton / Etc.) is not remotely sufficient. You can try Alldata or other online sources - they are cost effective, yet may lack some material. I prefer the OEM service manuals available only from Helm Inc. Your 2005 uses Helm Inc. manual GMT05CK8PU - $135 (and well worth the cost).

If you get a cylinder specific DTC set, it will help narrow down the potential causes - which can sometimes seem obscure.


Possible causes of a misfire DTC being set include, but are not limited to:

loose / improperly installed flywheel (flexplate), torque convertor, or balancer
imbalance of the driveshaft or driveline components
oil consumption
coolant consumption
intake manifold leaks
valve train harmonics (loose / worn / damaged)
worn engine bearing / piston pin
defective / old spark plugs, spark plug wires
defective coil
dirty or defective fuel injector
improper / inconsistent fuel pressure
wiring harness issues - worn / chafed / crimped
connector issues - worn, loose, misaligned
And probably many more that didn't immediately come to mind.

Regards,
Taz

EDIT: Did you remove / disturb any ground wires during the trans swap ? Confirm all grounds are clean, corrosion free, and have continuity.

[SimpleManLance]

ok i just replaced the plugs(drivers side plugs were black), wires, and coils. with all brand new stuff. then i swapped MAFs with my 03 sierra. still had the code. then i sprayed carb cleaner around the intake to see if i had a intake leak. no change in RPMs or tone change.

i scanned the truck and it looks like bank 1 o2 is putting out around 20-30mv where bank 2 was 700-900mv bank 1 injector pulse was a lot higher then bank 2.

could any of these be causing problems or are they some of the effects of the problem(s).

[Taz]

Looking like Bank 1 (driver side) front O2 is no good. Move the front O2s from their current bank to the opposite bank as a test. If the plugs on Bank 2 (passenger side) go black (too rich) after the switch - then that O2 is functionally dead.

An excessively rich condition will cause misfires.


Regards,
Taz

[SimpleManLance]

Looking like Bank 1 (driver side) front O2 is no good. Move the front O2s from their current bank to the opposite bank as a test. If the plugs on Bank 2 (passenger side) go black (too rich) after the switch - then that O2 is functionally dead.

An excessively rich condition will cause misfires.



Regards,
Taz

just swapped out the bank 1 o2 with a good one from of my other trucks. log is showing good o2 now but its still throwing the p0300 code.

[Taz]

The reason I recommended swapping the existing O2s side to side, is to further your diagnostic efforts without adding yet another variable into the mix (like a used O2 from another vehicle). Hopefully the used O2 is OK - otherwise it will cause you to "run in circles" with diagnostic efforts. If that used O2 has seen more than 2 years of service or 60K miles, it probably won't be as accurate / active as it was originally.

Anyway, continue your diagnostic efforts until you find the root cause .... that can sometimes take a while, and can cause frustration.


Regards,
Taz

[SimpleManLance]

ok well it looks like the replacing of the o2 sensor has fixed the misfire now. i threw the code the one time since i put the other o2 in. just took it up the road 2 miles and the converter is still not locking. log shows its in 4th gear.

i turned off the rear o2s and made some changes to the engine abuse and management. here is current tune.

10860

[Taz]

Glad to hear you may have resolved the misfire issue. Regarding TC function - when you are able, post a log with the PIDs suggested via the link in post #3 of this thread.


Regards,
Taz

[SimpleManLance]

i replaced the o2 rather then swapping them because i couldnt get the bank 2 o2 out without having to drop the y pipe.

would you like me to load that tune into the the truck too? ill go do a log right now.
Glad to hear you may have resolved the misfire issue. Regarding TC function - when you are able, post a log with the PIDs suggested via the link in post #3 of this thread.


Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

No worries .. your efforts worked out ... tend to be overly logical in my "middle age". I never looked at the most recent tune you posted, but a log of the TC related PIDs including the ones Joecar suggested (in the linked thread) may shed some light on what is happening to prevent the TC from locking.


Regards,
Taz

[SimpleManLance]

i feel like such an idiot :doh2:. When i log it shows that the TC is locking and i can actually see it in my RPMs that it is locking now. however i think it was playing mind games with me because for some reason now my cluster is reading 200-300 RPM higher then what my truck is logging. so when i'm cruising around my RPMs are constantly around 2000 which to my eye looks like the TC isn't locked. i don't know if this just started or if i haven't noticed it till i put the stall in. anyways here is my log.

10861

[joecar]

Happens to all of us :doh2:

Add these pids: TCCSLIP, TIS, TOS, TSTATE09, TSTATE10...

that should bring pid channel count to 16 (make sure to not exceed 24).

[Taz]

Correcting the misfire was the greatest obstacle to the TC lock issue. Good log - TC progressing through the various modes - locks nicely. Now that you are confident that all the "hard parts" are in good working order, you can customize the tune to best suit you.

Good job ...


Regards,
Taz

[SimpleManLance]

Happens to all of us :doh2:

Add these pids: TCCSLIP, TIS, TOS, TSTATE09, TSTATE10...

that should bring pid channel count to 16 (make sure to not exceed 24).

do you want me to go out an do another log for you with these pids added or just giving me a nice set of pids to long for future reference?


Correcting the misfire was the greatest obstacle to the TC lock issue. Good log - TC progressing through the various modes - locks nicely. Now that you are confident that all the "hard parts" are in good working order, you can customize the tune to best suit you.

Good job ...



Regards,
Taz

Thanks for the help. Not sure whats up with my cluster reading higher then what it is actually but everything seems to be driving down the road good. Now to figure out where to make changes from here. :confused: