L92 4L70E work around

[68problemchild]

http://www.becontrols.com/products/electronicscat.htm

The above TCM is stand alone with a harness and hooks to the electronic pedal and the 4L70E. Seems reasonable at $600. So...

1.If I wire this together, can we then tell the E38/L92 via EFI live its now a manual transmission and ignore the tranny feedback?

2. Am I now losing the VVT capability since there is no ISS communication?

Thanks. Any help appreciated!!!!

[gmh308]

http://www.becontrols.com/products/electronicscat.htm

The above TCM is stand alone with a harness and hooks to the electronic pedal and the 4L70E. Seems reasonable at $600. So...

1.If I wire this together, can we then tell the E38/L92 via EFI live its now a manual transmission and ignore the tranny feedback?

2. Am I now losing the VVT capability since there is no ISS communication?

Thanks. Any help appreciated!!!!

Is your setup giving you troubles as is still?

[68problemchild]

Sadly. Things were going OK but what I thought was a fuel starvation issue turned out to be a torque management signal coming on at high rpm. (I changed the fuel pump up to a Walbro 255 anyway).

This became very evident as we put the car on the dyno, began tuning and it started making real horsepower, enough for it to enter some type of torque protection mode. Please see the other post below on the car hitting a torque management issue at 6000 rpm. I put up a log and tunes. Throttle blade closes and spark begins to retard turning my nice dyno rise into ski moguls.

Thanks so much for any ideas you may have. You guys have been great to me.

[gmh308]

Sadly. Things were going OK but what I thought was a fuel starvation issue turned out to be a torque management signal coming on at high rpm. (I changed the fuel pump up to a Walbro 255 anyway).

This became very evident as we put the car on the dyno, began tuning and it started making real horsepower, enough for it to enter some type of torque protection mode. Please see the other post below on the car hitting a torque management issue at 6000 rpm. I put up a log and tunes. Throttle blade closes and spark begins to retard turning my nice dyno rise into ski moguls.

Thanks so much for any ideas you may have. You guys have been great to me.

If I recall correctly didnt your L92 ECM and TCM come from Speartech?

Incidentally, if you go for a seperate trans controller you will need to run a manual cal in the ECM. Manual cal = no VVT.

[68problemchild]

Yes the tune and controllers came from Speartech. He said to contact HP tuners.......

[ScarabEpic22]

What ECM/TCM OSs are you running currently? Have you set {B2523} to Yes? How is your traction control button setup (ie what do you do to disable TC)? Sounds like a Traction Control or StabiliTrak issue coming into play when it makes some power.

[68problemchild]

Thanks so much for your reply.

E38 OS12617631
T42 OS24239927

B2523 is set to "yes" BUT Taz took a look at the tune and JUST turned this to YES. It was no before. The car is locked up at the Dyno guys place this holiday weekend. We will definitely run this tune Tuesday with the YES set in.

Good call on the traction control. I have no button set up and did not know this existed. Is there a way to disable traction control in the tune or did this change do it?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GUYS ARE LIFE SAVERS!!!!!

[ScarabEpic22]

We just ask you take a video and post it online of you burning a 20ft long black streak down the road. Deal? :D

Good to hear you're setting it to yes, that should help. But I think in order for that to make a difference, we first need to disable traction control. How I understand B2523 works is when you turn off TC, it then disables BTM. So find a way to disable TC permanently and BTM will also be disabled.

What factory GM vehicle has that ECM OS? We need to see how that vehicle handles the traction control button, hope its an input but it might be transmitted over the databus.

[gmh308]

Thanks so much for your reply.

E38 OS12617631
T42 OS24239927

B2523 is set to "yes" BUT Taz took a look at the tune and JUST turned this to YES. It was no before. The car is locked up at the Dyno guys place this holiday weekend. We will definitely run this tune Tuesday with the YES set in.

Good call on the traction control. I have no button set up and did not know this existed. Is there a way to disable traction control in the tune or did this change do it?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GUYS ARE LIFE SAVERS!!!!!

Odd that B2523 was set to "NO". Havent seen a factory tune since E40 with this at "NO". But that tune has it set to "NO" from when you got it by the looks.

In a conversion with no traction control if this setting is set to "NO", as traction control is "OFF" anyway (no CAN message for traction control function from non existent ABS sets traction control to "OFF"), then Brake Torque Management comes in. Your BTM table was set to 512Nm which for a truck is probably fine. So maybe it was hitting this wall and stopping. What is B2501 set to?

[ScarabEpic22]

My TBSS came that way from GM, I know all TBSSs using the E67 have it set that way so I assume so do the 4.2L and 5.3L that use the E67 are that way too.

Ah thanks for the heads up on TC, good to know about B2501 too. What are B0515-B0531 set to? Id set them all to No so TC cant touch the throttle, spark, or fuel.

[Taz]

Hello Ian,

When I looked at the tune on Friday, B2501 was set to the maximum - 6046 lb-ft (not sure what that equates to in Nm !). I set B2523 to "Yes" and looked for anything amiss that was remotely related to the TCS or TM - hopefully Pat will have a successful dyno run on Tuesday. Gen III guy taking a semi-educated "guess" on Gen IV settings !


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

10987
10984
10985


B2501 is NOW set to 8192.
B0515-B0531 are NOW set to NO.

Originally the OS was 2007 escalade.

My second set of computers (the current ones) are 2008 Escalade E38 and T42 is 2008 full size 1/2 ton light truck 1500 2 wheel drive. T42 control was for an L76 motor.

Yes, VERY thankful for everyones help! You guys rock.
FYI here is a log before the tune was modded. Trq Trans 434 at peak. Car is almost at 6500 rpm. Also, tunes post modifications.

I have my fingers crossed for Tuesday!

[ScarabEpic22]

How did you get it to hit 6500rpms before? What has changed (besides new fuel pump)?

I hope its BTM somehow coming into play, I double checked all the rev limiter tables and all are set at 6700 or higher.

[gmh308]

Hello Ian,

When I looked at the tune on Friday, B2501 was set to the maximum - 6046 lb-ft (not sure what that equates to in Nm !). I set B2523 to "Yes" and looked for anything amiss that was remotely related to the TCS or TM - hopefully Pat will have a successful dyno run on Tuesday. Gen III guy taking a semi-educated "guess" on Gen IV settings !


Regards,
Taz

Max'ing out B2501 has proven to produce odd problems. It defines the max torque that can be commanded by the TCS when it is controlling wheelspin and probably relates to hysteresis control when traction comes back and power re-applied. If TCS is "OFF" then in theory it is not applicable. It is best left at the stock numbers. Normally 650Nm in a car application. For peace of mind best to set the TCS engaged temps and rpms outside of normal operating range. Yes I know I am contradicting myself here a little, but max'ing B2501 as I said has seen odd problems related to trans shifting.

[Taz]

Thanks Ian,

I still have a lot to learn about the Gen IV .... trying to do whatever I can to get Pat going (much like yourself !)


Cheers,
Taz

[gmh308]

Thanks Ian,

I still have a lot to learn about the Gen IV .... trying to do whatever I can to get Pat going (much like yourself !)


Cheers,
Taz

No worries Tazman! :)

[68problemchild]

Eric:

The problem is intermittant but seems torque related. On the log you can see spark retarding whenever torque hits over a certain point.

Thanks all. I appreciate everyones input.

Pat

[ScarabEpic22]

Interesting interesting interesting, how did it go on the dyno today? If turning B2523 to Yes didnt correct this issue Im at a loss right now. Ill keep thinking about it though...hmm

[68problemchild]

No luck on the Dyno today but Taz gave it one more shot this am. I just loaded the tune and they will give it a go tomorrow.

Again, thanks all for the help from all. Very much appreciated.

[gmh308]

10987
10984
10985


B2501 is NOW set to 8192.
B0515-B0531 are NOW set to NO.

Originally the OS was 2007 escalade.

My second set of computers (the current ones) are 2008 Escalade E38 and T42 is 2008 full size 1/2 ton light truck 1500 2 wheel drive. T42 control was for an L76 motor.

Yes, VERY thankful for everyones help! You guys rock.
FYI here is a log before the tune was modded. Trq Trans 434 at peak. Car is almost at 6500 rpm. Also, tunes post modifications.

I have my fingers crossed for Tuesday!

What is the difference in the logs between the two runs?

One sees WOT and no ETC limiting and an average of 560Nm, and the next sees the ETC bouncing and an average torque of 475-500Nm.

[Fire67]

What is the difference in the logs between the two runs?

One sees WOT and no ETC limiting and an average of 560Nm, and the next sees the ETC bouncing and an average torque of 475-500Nm.

Other than the data, there is no difference really. Maybe a small diff in ECT from heat soak, but all else the same. This includes dyno settings, and pedal position.

What you are seeing is the exact problem. Some form of unknown Torque Management being brought in and causing the ETC to fluctuate like that. The TQ mngmt also pulls timing according to what HPtuners shows, both instances of TQ management are being requested by the T42 and referenced as a torque limit.

-Justin

[68problemchild]

Engine seems to not like 475-512nm of torque from the log. Anything magic about hitting that number?

Also is it possible B2512 (set to 2) was not enabled yet in the log for the initial run up but effected later pulls?

[Fire67]

I cannot answer the "B2512" question because I dont have EFIlive... But the torque reading from what I understand is calculated torque... This calculation can be modified so that it outputs a lower number, but this usually results in transmission failure as reported by other HPtuners users who have tried pushing the calculated torque numbers around. Hence why I have not had the balls to modify it, lol.

[68problemchild]

B2512 TCS runtime enable currently set at "2". The engine must have been running for this long before the traction control system can request torque reduction. Can I put this in days? ; )


B2501 TCS maximum engine torque currently set at "475". This is the maximum amount of engine torque that the traction control system can request.

[gmh308]

B2512 TCS runtime enable currently set at "2". The engine must have been running for this long before the traction control system can request torque reduction. Can I put this in days? ; )


B2501 TCS maximum engine torque currently set at "475". This is the maximum amount of engine torque that the traction control system can request.

512Nm is the current number that is in the BTM table. Send me your current tune file and can fix this for you. Maybe BTM just always works with that combination and cant be set on or off.

BTM and TCS are two different things. BTM is to prevent the convertor being cooked while you hit the gas with the brake on. Do you have the brake pedal switch hooked in? Noticed you had TCS min torque set high. Normally its a negative number.

[68problemchild]

Comment from a friend with an LS3 and working 4L70E in a vette:

Hi Pat,

I just had my tuner enter the lowest value possible for TM. I had issues with the throttle closing at low RPM's and they went away after my tune.

Good luck!

[68problemchild]

11001

Hey Ian!

Here is the current file. Thanks SO MUCH for any help.

The brake wire is hooked in. Did I do it correctly, I think so but.....it could well be an issue that needs looking into.

[Fire67]

512Nm is the current number that is in the BTM table. Send me your current tune file and can fix this for you. Maybe BTM just always works with that combination and cant be set on or off.
In HPtuners... All I can do is set and Enable/Disable that when enabled let the TCS system disable the BTM.. I also have a table for BTM limit based on Vacum vs TPS... This table is maxed out at 6042ftlb. (Thats the highest number that HPtuners allows me to enter.)


BTM and TCS are two different things. BTM is to prevent the convertor being cooked while you hit the gas with the brake on. Do you have the brake pedal switch hooked in? Noticed you had TCS min torque set high. Normally its a negative number.
I'll take a peek at the pedal switch this afternoon. The TCS min has been experimented with in both negative and positive numbers with no effect.

[Fire67]

B2512 TCS runtime enable currently set at "2". The engine must have been running for this long before the traction control system can request torque reduction. Can I put this in days? ; )


B2501 TCS maximum engine torque currently set at "475". This is the maximum amount of engine torque that the traction control system can request.

I do not have the runtime parameter in my software, just an enable temp... Which is set at 493*F

In my software, the closest to "TCS max engine torque" is a variable described as "TCS Delivered Torque Max. Maximum torque range for Delivered torque signal to TCS system. i.e. at this torque, duty cycle max will be commanded." Based on that description, I had set this at a max of 6042ftlb.

Regardless, I have master enable/disable switches that are meant to determine the method used by the ECM to cut torque. They are for ETC, Spark, and Fuel... ALL are set to disable.

[gmh308]

In HPtuners... All I can do is set and Enable/Disable that when enabled let the TCS system disable the BTM.. I also have a table for BTM limit based on Vacum vs TPS... This table is maxed out at 6042ftlb. (Thats the highest number that HPtuners allows me to enter.)


I'll take a peek at the pedal switch this afternoon. The TCS min has been experimented with in both negative and positive numbers with no effect.

Yes looks like the BTM table has been maxed. An earlier version of the same tune was at 512Nm.

Revised a couple areas both visible and not. Give it a shot if you so wish. :)

Doubt the pedal switch is having any effect with the BTM maxed. But the pedal switch can affect whether this table is used or not.

[gmh308]

11009

[68problemchild]

Thank you Ian!!! I will bring it over the Justin at the Dyno today. We will make him an EFI live member yet. PS, he likes the software.

[Fire67]

Well Taz, GM308. Thank you for your input, it is really appreciated. I started out with GM308's file for testing as it was the last one Pat put into the ECM/TCM...

The problem was still there in full force on the road. So I went ahead and did a write entire with Taz's file... The problem was still there but less.

Next I did a write entire with GM308's file, then wrote just the calibration data from Taz's changes over it. This lowered the intensity of the problem yet again.

Seeing the direction the changes were going, I went ahead and made my own further changes. The problem went away entirely on the road.

So I went ahead and did some extremely basic road tuning in an effort to increase the power output to see if the problem came back. Well it did come back, but was easily tuned out.

Yesterday I strapped the car to the dyno to further my tuning in a safe manner and had the problem come back in full force. This time, it came back without any tuning changes :doh2:

So I went in the same direction and made some tuning changes to try and get reigns on this thing again and after 2 pulls I finally got one that was free and clear of the issue. Just to confirm, I made another pull before making any more changes. Problem came back. After several more attempts to get passed this limiter, I got one pull where the problem was there and then all of a sudden cleared up at 3800 rpm. The car put down just shy of 400hp and 400ft-lbs with an excessively rich 10:1 A/F and very little timing in it.

This 'issue' is proving to come and go as it sees fit with the only variables changing being the ones I have no control over (air temp, baro, etc.)

So, we're giving up on these controllers and their escalade OS in favor of 07 controllers and an 07 Silverado Vortech Max pickup. This OS is as close of a match to the combination as we can get with the only main difference being the engine displacement.
Car has 6.2L VVT and 4L70E with E38 and T42 controllers.
New OS is meant for a 6.0 VVT and 4L70E with the same E38 and T42 controllers
Old OS is meant for 6.2VVT and 6L80E with E38 and T43 (<<Hope thats where this mysterious problem lies)

[68problemchild]

Thought you all may enjoy these Dyno run movies today. Justin is still tweaking....


http://www.flickr.com/photos/41575483@N07/

Thanks all for the help.