E38 = pos

[mr.prick]

These things suck. :crash:

At lunch tonight I applied LTFT to the MAF curve, reflashed then went back to work.
When I left work I noticed the tach and speedo did not work so I stopped and turned the ignition off.

What happened next was a no start situation for about 45 minutes.
ABS fault with not DTCs. :throw:

I've heard disconnecting the battery is sometimes needed after a cal flash. :nixweiss:

I miss my LS1B. :bawl:

[macca_779]

These things suck. :crash:

At lunch tonight I applied LTFT to the MAF curve, reflashed then went back to work.
When I left work I noticed the tach and speedo did not work so I stopped and turned the ignition off.

What happened next was a no start situation for about 45 minutes.
ABS fault with not DTCs. :throw:

I've heard disconnecting the battery is sometimes needed after a cal flash. :nixweiss:

I miss my LS1B. :bawl:

Try flashing with the key on ACC rather than IGN. Far more reliable I've found.

Agreed. Although great controller with plenty of hardware power and some trick software processes.
Here is an analogy i just thought up.

0411 PCM is like the 8/10 girl you meet at a bar and go right up to and say, "do you want to get out of here". She grabs you and off you go and have a great night where both you and her get exactly what you want time and time again.

E38 ECM is like the 9/10 girl you meet at a bar and spend all night buying her drinks listening to her talk about herself and then only get a phone number at the end. 2 weeks worth of dates going through the same crap and you finally get her home. But then you find she's a tempreMENTAL bitch who's right up there on the crazy hot chick ratio and won't do anything outside of her comfort zone. Sure she'll get you there in the end. But the BS you have to go through to get there half the time just ain't worth that extra 1 point.


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

[ScarabEpic22]

Haha great analogy

[joecar]

ROFLMAO :rotflmao:

[Mr. P.]

HAHAHAHA great one - I'm stealing that analogy!!

LOL

[mr.prick]

:laugh:

[GMPX]

Try flashing with the key on ACC rather than IGN. Far more reliable I've found.
What the?

[macca_779]

What the?

Yep the ecm is powered off accessories. Works on Holdens anyway.

[GMPX]

I've heard disconnecting the battery is sometimes needed after a cal flash. :nixweiss:
If you are tuning a late model E38 with brand 'x' you need to do this for every read or flash :hihi::hihi:
HERE (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33206) or HERE (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26203) , it's only been a 'small' problem for two years :rotflmao:

Macca, for what reason do you need to flash an E38 with only accy on? We have a 2008 SS and a 2009 SS and a 2011 Berlina as test vehicles and we see no problems with flashing with the key on all the way.

[macca_779]

If you are tuning a late model E38 with brand 'x' you need to do this for every read or flash :hihi::hihi:
HERE (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33206) or HERE (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26203) , it's only been a 'small' problem for two years :rotflmao:

Macca, for what reason do you need to flash an E38 with only accy on? We have a 2008 SS and a 2009 SS and a 2011 Berlina as test vehicles and we see no problems with flashing with the key on all the way.

I've had issues in the past where post flash or even post read, the car won't start until you cycle the doors touch your nose cross your heart all very random. Flash off acc. Never a prob.

[GMPX]

In the past, as in two years ago, or in the last 6 months or something? I'm just intersted that's all, as far as we are aware our E38 flashing is rock solid reliable with no special tricks or processes to be completed, just the normal key off countdown timer.
A few years ago I recall the E40 occasionally needed a power removal only after a full flash, we've had a couple of people say that, but that really is an odd occurance and hasn't been an issue for a while.

[macca_779]

In the past, as in two years ago, or in the last 6 months or something? I'm just intersted that's all, as far as we are aware our E38 flashing is rock solid reliable with no special tricks or processes to be completed, just the normal key off countdown timer.
A few years ago I recall the E40 occasionally needed a power removal only after a full flash, we've had a couple of people say that, but that really is an odd occurance and hasn't been an issue for a while.

It has been a while, at least over a year as I haven't tried ign on when acc has been working for me consistently when I have had issues using ign. Next one I do I'll try ign again.

JezzaB or swingy might be able to chime in as they were the ones that told me about using ACC in the first place.


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

[GMPX]

Funnily enough if you try to flash one of the Duramax ECM's with just accy it will fail, 100% guarantee, Ign must be fully on.

[macca_779]

Funnily enough if you try to flash one of the Duramax ECM's with just accy it will fail, 100% guarantee, Ign must be fully on.

Same as ls1's it will fail. Seriously though the e38 is a temptemental creature. Almost as bad as flashing computers in aircraft I can assure. We always power the least amount of systems possible to prevent corruption from other systems over the various mux's. This is the theory I've applied to the e38 and it's working for me. Clearly there are still some bugs, as is the reason for this thread from mr prick.

[swingtan]

RE: flashing the E38 on ACC, I mentioned this years ago and never use the ignition fully on.

The reason is that on on the Holden VZ's and VE's, if you flash with the ignition fully on, I think the V2 causes a significant interruption on the CAN bus and it causes the TRAC/ESP/ABS errors to occur. Some of these require multiple key cycles to clear. This is all avoided when flashing on just ACC as I think the ECM is powered, but the other modules are not. This is also true of the T42 in the V6 Holden VE's.

I also have found the E38 can be very critical on the 15 second timer after a reflash. You can get weird results if you don't key off for 15 seconds.

Simon.

Just found the other thread.... http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?7741-E38-Flashing-tips.....

[GMPX]

I think the V2 causes a significant interruption on the CAN bus and it causes the TRAC/ESP/ABS errors to occur.
Yes it does, it completely silences the CAN bus as is supposed to happen when programming. We've logged multiple times the flash process on a VE Commodore and all modules do as they are supposed to, that is, to be quiet during the flash. The key off timer process is very important, it is used to reset all the modules and allow the ECM to do some house keeping before shutdown. I also have heard the E38 can be very critical on the 15 second timer after a reflash. You can get weird results if you don't key off for 15 seconds.
I can tell you on my 2011 I always flash with the key fully on, there is zero DTC's after the reflash, and this car has more modules on the CAN bus than you can poke a stick at.
During the flash it is common to see the dash complaining about no comms from the ABS, TCS off, etc, but once the flash is complete and the IGN off timer is done there should be no residual issues or DTC's.

I believe the problem with the VZ will be the E38 has been thrown in to a car running a comms bus that dates back to 1986! I suspect the modules on the 8192 ALDL bus are not getting all the initialisation / finalisation messages from the PIM (which translates some of the CAN messages to ALDL) and therefore as far as they are concerned the ECM is no longer there because they have no idea a flash is in progress.

If you are flashing fine with just Accy on then stick with it I suppose, it's just not the recommended practise (from us anyway).

[Boost]

Interesting thread, I'll just add that I've had no trouble what so ever with any E38s, I've flashed dozens. Of course I am very careful with the countdown and also disconnecting anything aftermarket. Has been rock solid for me so far. One time I even accidentally flashed one with the key on just one click and I was freaking out because I ALWAYS have it on two clicks. But it worked ok that time. I would imagine they are much more sensitive than LS1s.

[izaks]

I have done over a 100 VE E38's and have never had any problems with ign on.
VZ with E38 is another thing - always get imobiliser fail, just have to switch ign on and off.

[mr.prick]

I have not had this problem for a while.
Using the RAP position to flash seems to work,
also waiting for the door locks to cycle before turning the key the off. :hihi:

[Meister]

I have tuned hundreds of E38's without a single problem.

[JezzaB]

I flash both VZ and VE E38 with the IGN on now days instead of ACC. Still get Immobilzer errors on the VZ E38s but a quick lock and unlock when finished fixed that. VE's are fine. Couple of years ago they used to freak out a fair bit

[GMPX]

I have tuned hundreds of E38's without a single problem.


I flash both VZ and VE E38 with the IGN on now days instead of ACC. Still get Immobilzer errors on the VZ E38s but a quick lock and unlock when finished fixed that. VE's are fine. Couple of years ago they used to freak out a fair bit
The immobilzer warning is probably only unique to the VZ Commodore because it still uses the 'very' old ALDL bus on the car as well as CAN.

[JezzaB]

The immobilzer warning is probably only unique to the VZ Commodore because it still uses the 'very' old ALDL bus on the car as well as CAN.

All good, im just glad it doesnt take 15 minutes to flash now days :P

[GMPX]

I never knew it did (unless you are using a TechII, then it is about 15mins).

[swingtan]

Back in the early days, circa 2008, it used to take a while. Maybe not 15 min. though.

[GMPX]

Bizarre indeed, are we talking a full flash or cal only? I can't imagine how a cal only flash could possibly take so long.
I know on my own 2011 when flashing, the cluster complains a bit, ESP Off, Service Soon, all that stuff, but when the flash is complete there is no residual DTC's or warnings left.

[swingtan]

Yep, very early on when Jez started playing with my VZ E38 ( and then got me hooked! ) it would get very upset if flashed with ignition on. There was no lasting effect apart from alarms going off all over the place. One day I accidentally flashed it while on accessories and had no alarms at all, just like on the LS1 controller. Since then I've only ever flashed it on accessory. With the early VE's ( 2006 - 2008 ) models and versions of EFILive from the same era, if you flashed the ECM with the ignition on, you would at times be left with no ESP or traction control for a number of key cycles, as well as the normal E38 alarms going off. So I just flashed them in accessory mode as well. It just seemed to give a "cleaner" flash at the end of the process.

I did happen to flash a 2010/2011 VE on the weekend in full ignition on mode though and while the alarms went off, the ESP and traction control were not affected. So it's probably fine now and I only do it as a matter of habit.

[Dieselman]

I started flashing my 08 VE with the key full on but am now doing it on ACC. Less alarms doing it that way and it seems like my ESP/Traction doesn't flip out like it used to occasionally. I still use full key on to flash the TCM though.

Cheers

Ben

[JezzaB]

Back in the early days, circa 2008, it used to take a while. Maybe not 15 min. though.

Full flash was 15mins from memory and calibration only was about 7 minutes. Then they did a new update and said they had increased flash times and it halved.

[swingtan]

Yeah, I think you're right there. Even now a full flash is about 5min vs 1-2 min for the full process on a BBF for the CAL. I remember when the CAL olone took over 3 min, that was a bit of a pain when you had no DVT control for a parameter you were working out!