PE Mode Controls All Closed-Loop Fueling

[WeathermanShawn]

Does B3618 or B3605 Control Commanded Fueling..

Test: 2002 LS1B OS 12212156

Did a series of 6 Tunes (2 Closed-Loop, 4 Open-Loop) to see which Table controls Commanded Fueling:

1. MAF Enabled B3618 set to EQ 1.00. B3605 set to 1.13

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/weathermanshawn/MAFSDCLTune.png

Result: B3618 Controls Commanded EQ.

2. CLSD (MAF Disabled). B3618 1.00 EQ. B3605 set to 1.13

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/weathermanshawn/MAFDTC.png

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/weathermanshawn/CLSD.png

Result: B3618 Controls Commanded EQ.

3. Open-Loop SD (MAF Disabled). B3618 Set to 1.00 EQ. B3605 Set to 1.13

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/weathermanshawn/OLSD.png

Result: B3605 Controls Commanded EQ.

4. OLSD B3618 Set to 1.16 B3605 Set to 1.13

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/weathermanshawn/OLSDPE116.png

Result: Commanded EQ follows Richer of B3605 & B3618

Test 5: OLMAF B0120 Set to 400 RPM, B3618 Set to 1.00, B3605 Set to 1.13

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/weathermanshawn/OLMAF.png

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/weathermanshawn/OLMAFPE1.png

Result: Commanded EQ follows B3605

Test 6: OLMAF, B0102 Set to 400 Rpm, B3618 Set to 1.16, B3605 Set to 1.13

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/weathermanshawn/OLMAFPE116.png

Result: Commanded EQ follows Richer of B3605 & B3618

Discussion: This has been a controversial topic. When does Table B3618 control fueling, or when does Table B3605 control Commanded EQ.. and when does the PCM pick the richer of the two?

Result: In ALL cases (MAF-Enabled or Disabled), in Closed-Loop B3618 controls ALL fueling or Commanded EQ.

Only in Open-Loop does the PCM pick the 'richer of the two'.

Summary:

PE mode fueling is commanded by:
- CLMAF : B3618
- CLSD : B3618
- OLMAF : richer of B3618, B3605, B3647
- OLSD : richer of B3618, B3605, B3647

Or more simply, PE mode fueling is commanded by:
- CL: B3618.
- OL: richer of B3618, B3605, B3647.

Or, even more simply, PE fueling is commanded by:
- the richest of the active fueling tables.
Note:
- in CL, the active fueling tables at WOT would be B3618.
- in OL, the active fueling tables at WOT would be B3618 and B3605 (B3647 for COS).

[minytrker]

I always make both tables match.

[joecar]

Good job :cheers:

[joecar]

PE mode fueling is commanded by:
- CLMAF : B3618
- CLSD : B3618
- OLMAF : richer of B3618, B3605, B3647
- OLSD : richer of B3618, B3605, B3647

Or more simply, PE mode fueling is commanded by:
- CL: B3618.
- OL: richer of B3618, B3605, B3647.

Or, even more simply, PE fueling is commanded by:
- the richest of the active tables.
Note:
- in CL, the active tables at WOT would be B3618.
- in OL, the active tables at WOT would be B3618 and B3605 (or B3647 for COS).

[Mr. P.]

And what if your OS doesn't have a B3605??

[WeathermanShawn]

And what if your OS doesn't have a B3605??

Hi, Mr.P:

Best answer would be for a COS User to test it out. I ran 6 tests on a regular COS..:).

Best I can figure is that closed-loop never picks an 'Open-Loop' Type Fueling Table, but relies on the PE Modifiers..I am sure Joecar's Summary would probably be correct for iterations of Open-Loop, but as always testing is the best method..

[joecar]

Mr.P,

B3647 behaves exactly like B3605.

[joecar]

I updated post #4 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

Basically: entering PE from CL mode retains CL mode during PE.

This now makes sense regarding LTFT's being applied during WOT (negative trims are first rounded up to zero).

[WeathermanShawn]

So is this summary a correct statement:

PE mode fueling is commanded by:
- CLMAF : B3618
- CLSD : B3618
- OLMAF : richer of B3618, B3605, B3647
- OLSD : richer of B3618, B3605, B3647

Or more simply:
PE mode fueling is commanded by:
- CL: B3618.
- OL: richer of B3618, B3605, B3647.


Yes!

[joecar]

I updated post #4 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

Basically: entering PE from CL mode retains CL mode during PE.

This now makes sense regarding LTFT's being applied during WOT (negative trims are first rounded up to zero).This means that B3605/B3647 are not active (because CL is not exited).

[tinindian]

Awesome info Shawn. Thanks for doing the tests.

[WeathermanShawn]

Your more than welcome..:cheers:

I had a lot of data, so also thanks to Joecar for his talents in summarizing into Summary Notes!

[SSpdDmon]

So what you're saying is when closed loop is enabled in the tune, having a richer Commanded Fueling in Open Loop (CFOL) table setting than what is in PE table will not override the PE table when the PE enablers kick the car over into open loop?

What about before the car goes into closed loop (when ECTs are lower than the CL threshold)? I know the logs I have would show the commanded AFRs that follow the CFOL table. But, I never really get on the car to find out if PE took over.

I do agree with the other half of what you're saying. When CL is turned off, fueling will follow the CFOL table until PE is enabled, at which point it'll take the richer of the two.

[WeathermanShawn]

So what you're saying is when closed loop is enabled in the tune, having a richer Commanded Fueling in Open Loop (CFOL) table setting than what is in PE table will not override the PE table when the PE enablers kick the car over into open loop?

Jeff, thats 100% Valid in the OS 12212156 I tested. Edit: Per Joecar's reasoning when in closed-loop, PE is enabled..you really stay in closed-loop (+LTFT's applied). Some OS's will say OL-Drive, but its probably never really enters 'classic' Open-Loop..

What about before the car goes into closed loop (when ECTs are lower than the CL threshold)? I know the logs I have would show the commanded AFRs that follow the CFOL table. But, I never really get on the car to find out if PE took over.

Like you, I have never stomped on it while the vehicle is warming up. I guess one could enable TPS for say 1-2% and try it..but like you I found it always follows CFOL when warming up..per Joecar's reasoning, since it is not closed-loop yet..I bet it will always follow CFOL in 'cold'-open-loop..(see attachment)..

I do agree with the other half of what you're saying. When CL is turned off, fueling will follow the CFOL table until PE is enabled, at which point it'll take the richer of the two.

That one also valid. You ask a great question on warm up..I don't mind testing low TPS PE at that point..

Anybody try that one?

[SSpdDmon]

Interesting...I knew there was a reason I constantly tell people to use the PE table. Damn ESP is flaring up again. LOL

[WeathermanShawn]

Interesting...I knew there was a reason I constantly tell people to use the PE table. Damn ESP is flaring up again. LOL

Well Jeff, we always knew you were ahead of your time..We could have saved a lot of time if we had just listened to you!:grin:..

[SSpdDmon]

Well Jeff, we always knew you were ahead of your time..We could have saved a lot of time if we had just listened to you!:grin:..

If and when I get married - can you please teach this concept to my future wife? It'll make life much easier from what I understand. Thanks!!!

PS - Just saw your sig and realized we're twins. The car I just picked up this winter is a Black '02 Z hardtop M6. LOL

[joecar]

For non-EFILive people reading this...

B3618 = PE EQR table
B3605 = OL EQR table = OLFA table (depending on the fueling units selected in the tunetool)
B3647 = OL EQR table for COS (Custom Operating System)

[Dirktdolman]

Can you brake the acronyms down for us slow kids? PLEASE

[trimchip]

RE start of thread:

Does B3618 or B3605 Control Commanded Fueling..

Test: 2002 LS1B OS 1221256

I suppose 1221256 is a misprint, and that we are actually talking about 12212156

If this is the case i fing it strange that in my calibration (12206911), the 3605 and 3618 consists of numbers smaller than 1, IE 0,88 multiplied with 14,63= 12,87 AFR.

[darcy]

If this is the case i fing it strange that in my calibration (12206911), the 3605 and 3618 consists of numbers smaller than 1, IE 0,88 multiplied with 14,63= 12,87 AFR.

Sounds like you're viewing in Lambda, no Equivalence Ratio.

[trimchip]

The article starts with numbers higher than 1 giving a lower AFR.

It`s the opposite with mine, tables B3605 and B3618 contains multipliers lower than one.

Anyway, I`m struggling to obtain auto tune using RTACS on standard calibration file.

I`ll start a new thread describing the case.

[joecar]

When you view your B3605 and B3618, look in the panel in the upper right, next to Units, what does it say (EQR or Lambda, which one)...?

See what darcy said above.

You already know that Lambda = 1/EQR

and that Lambda < 1 is RICHER than stoich, and Lambda < 1 is LEANER than stoich

(and of course, EQR is the inverse).

B3605 and B3618 are not simply "multpliers", they are EQR or Lambda (depending on how you set Fueling Units in your tunetool).

[joecar]

For non-EFILive people reading this...

B3618 = PE EQR table
B3605 = OL EQR table = OLFA table (depending on the fueling units selected in the tunetool)
B3647 = OL EQR table for COS (Custom Operating System)


Can you brake the acronyms down for us slow kids? PLEASEDT,

I only now saw your post...

PE = Ppower Enrichment
OL = Open Loop
EQR = Equivalence Ratio = 1/Lambda
OLFA = OL Fuel Air
COS - Custom Operating System (i.e. for PCM).

[joecar]

...

I suppose 1221256 is a misprint, and that we are actually talking about 12212156

...It was a typo, I fixed it now on Shawn's behalf (I know for fact that he ran 12212156, I was on the phone with him quite often).

[trimchip]

When you view your B3605 and B3618, look in the panel in the upper right, next to Units, what does it say (EQR or Lambda, which one)...?

See what darcy said above.

You already know that Lambda = 1/EQR

and that Lambda < 1 is RICHER than stoich, and Lambda < 1 is LEANER than stoich

(and of course, EQR is the inverse).

B3605 and B3618 are not simply "multpliers", they are EQR or Lambda (depending on how you set Fueling Units in your tunetool).

You are right (of course) :)

I saw this earlier today when i was reading through the custom OS 2/3 bar tutorial. (It reads Lambda in my setup)

[trimchip]

Changed it under properties and restarted program.

Now it shows EQR, and the tables changed to higher than 1