P0606 code and tbody inop

[AllOutPerformance]

Ok ive got something alittle different and that i didnt build.
The vehicle is a rock crawler has a e38 ecu with what looks like a painless harness.
Another shop built it and got it running,has some wierd stuff going on,i first looked and saw the vats wasnt patched,or type chaNGED.So i do the patch and change to type 3 and still po606 pops up.Now when i got it it didnt have the 100ohm resistor on the starter relay circuit.The os is from a 2007 6.0 vette and appears to have the correct harness for a vette.I pinned the resistor to pin 4 black plug,as on the vette it looks like pin52 isnt used.

If anyone has any ideas let me know.Thanks.

[AllOutPerformance]

Ok i think pin 4 is wrong going pin 67 now.

[AllOutPerformance]

Ok i went into the codes and put not reported for p0606 and no issues.

[gmh308]

Ok i went into the codes and put not reported for p0606 and no issues.

Gotta love that!

[AllOutPerformance]

Ya I tried another pcm and same death code.as soon as the code would POP it would go into limp mode.

[swingtan]

the last time I heard of a P0606 was when the battery voltage was low to the ECM. Once the power supply was fixed, this stopped occurring. I'd be checking the internal voltages, GM.VOLTS and SAE.VPWR and confirming that all power and earth wires are good. Finally, check that the battery + terminals are clean and in good condition.

Simon

[AllOutPerformance]

the last time I heard of a P0606 was when the battery voltage was low to the ECM. Once the power supply was fixed, this stopped occurring. I'd be checking the internal voltages, GM.VOLTS and SAE.VPWR and confirming that all power and earth wires are good. Finally, check that the battery + terminals are clean and in good condition.

Simon

ofcourse this buggy doesnt act up or have voltage drops when im driving it.
Im going to datalog it again and record it over a 20 minute drive.Normally only happens under long wide open pulls

[AllOutPerformance]

ok both are about the same within a tenth but both low and def not at charging voltage.Back of alternator its 13.7 with fans on,but its logging about 12.8 and drops when hitting the throttle,looks like once it hits 11.7 or lower it pops code.anyone know the threshold?Looks like the main chaRGE wire coming off alternator is to small or has a voltage drop at master switch.Going to log a full power wot pull and watch the voltage and see what it looks like.

[68sstt]

ok both are about the same within a tenth but both low and def not at charging voltage.Back of alternator its 13.7 with fans on,but its logging about 12.8 and drops when hitting the throttle,looks like once it hits 11.7 or lower it pops code.anyone know the threshold?Looks like the main chaRGE wire coming off alternator is to small or has a voltage drop at master switch.Going to log a full power wot pull and watch the voltage and see what it looks like.

What size output does the alternator have and is it an e38 controlled alternator?
Sometimes e38 controlled alternators don't turn on the charge as soon as you start the engine and cutout at odd times, there is a way around this!
If you have a 100Amp alternator i would recommend at least 16mm cross sectional area cable from the alternator to battery or isolation switch.
If the ecu picks its supply up from a common point in the cabin this could be sharing a supply with fans check that the csa of the cable that supplies
the cab fans etc is sufficient ie 10-16mm and of course check all grounds are sufficient in the same manner!

[AllOutPerformance]

What size output does the alternator have and is it an e38 controlled alternator?
Sometimes e38 controlled alternators don't turn on the charge as soon as you start the engine and cutout at odd times, there is a way around this!
If you have a 100Amp alternator i would recommend at least 16mm cross sectional area cable from the alternator to battery or isolation switch.
If the ecu picks its supply up from a common point in the cabin this could be sharing a supply with fans check that the csa of the cable that supplies
the cab fans etc is sufficient ie 10-16mm and of course check all grounds are sufficient in the same manner!
Not 100% sure what alternator is on it,but it can be changed to external excite and a bigger unit,imo it needs that anyway.Its got a 4gauge from the alternator to the batter switch then from there to the battery.I did let it run for about 15 minutes and it never changes just goes down as you rev the engine,im data logging it right now and will report back.Thanks guys.

[AllOutPerformance]

Ok logged it on some wot pulls,lowest i saw the controller votage was 12.4 then it failed and shut down.
Does this system look at alternator output also?ANd maybe its seeing to big of a difference?Im stumped and theres no drive by wire fault codes.

[AllOutPerformance]

You can turn off te battery kill for about 20 seconds and it fires back up and runs fine till you do another wot pull again.

[AllOutPerformance]

I also looked at the maff counts all that looks good,nothing looks abnormal other then the voltage is a tick low but not abnormally low.

[swingtan]

It might be dirty power, IE. the average voltage is 12.4V, but it may have spikes dropping below this that a digital meter will not display. I'd try the following...


Measure the resistance of the main power feeds to the ECM. I don't have the pin outs for the plugs, but it's a good chance that they will be the biggest pins in there. Measure from the battery to the ECM plug and check that it reads "0" or very low.
Measure the resistance of the earth leads for the ECM. Again they should read very low.
Check for any tight wires that may come under stress when you go WOT. The engine may be moving enough to pull a wire, causing the voltage drop to occur.
Check for other loose connections that may be causing issues when the vibrations of a WOT event occur.


Simon

[AllOutPerformance]

Ya i have a pin out,i checked them but didnt do a voltage drop and res test on power and grounds.thanks for the help

[68sstt]

Not 100% sure what alternator is on it,but it can be changed to external excite and a bigger unit,imo it needs that anyway.Its got a 4gauge from the alternator to the batter switch then from there to the battery.I did let it run for about 15 minutes and it never changes just goes down as you rev the engine,im data logging it right now and will report back.Thanks guys.

If the voltage goes down when you rev it check your belt tension or auto tensioner is providing sufficient tension on alternator,
100a is sufficient output for most applications like yours. 4b&s(4gauge) wire is sufficient That is equivalent to 20mm2 csa cable.
If the voltage drops when free revving try measuring voltages at different points on the car Alt, ignition switch, fuse box, battery etc
using different earth points also this will point out if you have any severe voltage drops or if the alternator won't charge when revving.

[The Alchemist]

"When you get DTC P0606, log the PID GM.CPUFAULT to get a number that indicates the exact nature of the fault."
quote from Blacky when I had this fault...apparently there are several triggers for this fault code and logging GM.CPUFAULT gives a subcode that he can look up for you.
I got this fault code when playing aBOUT with b1650/51/52 trying to get my cold idle target up with a supercharged cammed VE ute. The ECU didn't like what it was seeing and logged the death code :) so called cos its described in manuals as a "PCM error or fail" This is only a loose description but is often interpreted by us humans as " me PCM is f!!ked " which is often not the case.I logged this pid and got CPU FAULT 22 when P0606 triggered. Here is Blacky's reply to me
"CPU Fault 22 means that a "throttle limiting fault" was received by the ECM from the throttle controller subsystem in 2 or more consecutive messages.
I do not know what causes a "throttle limiting fault". But if I had to guess it would be tables that have been modified in the ECM not matching the tables in the throttle controller subsystem."

I hope this helps in some way...
Cheers,
Mike

[AllOutPerformance]

I found some other stuff regaurding what original os is in the e38 ecu and the corresponding tbody to go with it.I honestly hate the e38 its just a huge pain in thhe ass.The owner wanted to go mechanical tbody because its a desert truck and he didnt want to have sand or water cause a faliure to the drive by wire pedal.So now it has a mechanical tbody.Any input on what needs to be changed to make this work?

[ScarabEpic22]

Gonna be interesting as an E38 wont ever know WTF to do with a mechanical tbody. Id look at using an E67 with a GMPP OS, I believe that combo actually used a mechanical setup...

Or run an LPE TRG-002 58x->24x converter box and drop a LS1B PCM into it.

[AllOutPerformance]

problem is i have a e38 ecu and stand alone harness.God id love to go back to a 411 ecu trust me. already its in some stupid sand rail,rock crawler.So basically your saying im screwed lol.

The orginal problem after doing some reading looked to be the wrong os to throttle body.

[AllOutPerformance]

save me tom cruise.God i hate this stupid truck.

[AllOutPerformance]

Ok went back to drive by wire.
It looks like the throttle body is a 6 wire brass blade 80mm maybe from a earlier truck?I thought all the truck ones were 8 wire though but i could be wrong.So i guess what i need to know is this.Its got a vette style pin out on the harness and looks to be a vette 6 wire wide pedal.Do i need to have someone with a tech 2 or gm flash the ecu to a 2007 vette then put my tune over the top?I was reading on here that this could be the problem.As soon as the 606 code comes up the throttle returns to idle.I guess the throttle open rate doesnt match?Does this make any sence?I really want this turd out of my life lol.

[AllOutPerformance]

ok got a gm fault of 22 when i got it to fail.

[AllOutPerformance]

ok got fault 22 but the throttle systems havent been changed,but it is a truck ecu i put a 07 vette file in.

[AllOutPerformance]

edit

[AllOutPerformance]

Ok so i checked the service number its a 12597121 so its a 07 4.8 truck file.
I full flashed a 12614088 from a 6.2 caddy.

I no longer have throttle pedal issues.
Now i have a no start issue.I did a vats patch and full flashed it,i also made sure it was on type 2 vats.I do get a crank angle code p0315 i tried to do a crank angle relearn with the scan tool but no luck.Did i miss something on the patch?

[AllOutPerformance]

I also have the resistor to ground on pin 52 of black plug.

I see in the e38 vats thread it says patch plus type2 plus starter relay

[AllOutPerformance]

Next problem this thing has a turbo400 how do i get around the 4000rpm rev limiter.Ive got all the vats crap handled.Is there a custom os to fix this issue?

[gmh308]

Next problem this thing has a turbo400 how do i get around the 4000rpm rev limiter.Ive got all the vats crap handled.Is there a custom os to fix this issue?

You need a manual OS. Post up the original file you were having P0606 issues with and will take a look and see whether we can fix it.

[AllOutPerformance]

Problem is they dont make a manual file with that tbody.I've tried multiple different manual Vette files and all have the same issue.and really a Vette file is my only option for a stickshift e38 .

[gmh308]

Problem is they dont make a manual file with that tbody.I've tried multiple different manual Vette files and all have the same issue.and really a Vette file is my only option for a stickshift e38 .

Are you sure you have the right base Vette calibration in the ECM? If you arent, post it and we can check it.

[AllOutPerformance]

I'm using a 2008 man trans Vette ls3 file.I have the OS number at the shop.as of now irs just a stock file.if I use a caddy 4088os no tbody issues at all no 606 code.I've done reading that the ecu sees a different tbody opening rate because I have a l92 tbody and a Vette is different.

[AllOutPerformance]

Are you sure you have the right base Vette calibration in the ECM? If you arent, post it and we can check it.Ok so do i need to take my current ecu to gm and have them flash a 08 man trans vette file then buy a vette t body and pedal or just a tbody?And then put my tune i built for it over the top?

[ScarabEpic22]

If you didnt buy an 08 Vette E38 ECM (manual or auto doesnt matter), then you HAVE to have a dealer flash it using Tis2Web/SPS/etc. EFILive cannot fully reprogram ECM/PCMs from 05+ (LS1B excluded).

If you have a Vette pedal and dont want to use a truck OS, then sounds like you need to have the E38 flashed by a dealer and put a Vette tb on it.

[TBMSport]

If you didnt buy an 08 Vette E38 ECM (manual or auto doesnt matter), then you HAVE to have a dealer flash it using Tis2Web/SPS/etc. EFILive cannot fully reprogram ECM/PCMs from 05+ (LS1B excluded).

If you have a Vette pedal and dont want to use a truck OS, then sounds like you need to have the E38 flashed by a dealer and put a Vette tb on it.

That has screwed me up a many times! Out here dealers look at you weird when you bring ECM's to them without a full GM car wrapped around it. They only know how to flash according to an VIN, so when you give them a VIN and no vehicle they think you're trying to do some high tech theft of a car. So to avoid getting myself questioned by local PD, I just get an OEM used ECM from a specific vehicle.

From what I've seen messing around in the E67's is that the throttle opening rate is a ratio that takes into account the throttle pedal being used and the throttle body. Now keep in mind the significance of the related parts as an OEM vehicle. Trucks have an intake manifold neck that is angled up to clear the clutch fan. This angle impacts the flow of air into the intake manifold. The accelerator pedal is designed to 'ramp' based on that, as well as the floor pan design of the vehicle it's in. So you have quite mix of parts that are calibrated for specific parameters that are not quite there.

So the problem you will have is you have an ECM that thinks it's on a straight plane Vette intake manifold with appropriate throttle body. A throttle body that is designed to be on an angled neck intake manifold from God only knows what model year (TB's wiring pin and gear differ from application and model year). And a throttle pedal that is telling the ECM to tell the TB to move at XYZ calibrations bc it doesn't know the TB is different. Lastly, you have the ECM caught in the middle looking for MAP and MAF readings that don't jive bc its Vette calibration engine RPM's don't match the actual MAF/MAP readings because you have a TB that is not responding the way it is expected to. See the vicious loop? If you have CAI system that is giving cooler and faster flowing air, that only further shifts your MAF/MAP readings. And now a lighter vehicle that is accelerating faster than expected, can push air flow readings more and more out of 'parameter.' That's why your ECM is triggering P0606. Whatever particular cell under throttle that isn't matching is causing a calculation 'brick wall'.

[gmh308]

Ok so do i need to take my current ecu to gm and have them flash a 08 man trans vette file then buy a vette t body and pedal or just a tbody?And then put my tune i built for it over the top?

Without delving into the tune file from the ECM its impossible to say what its original tune is that is running the throttle controller and why you are having the problem.

Maybe you dont want to post your tuning parameters. Just change the timing etc to something generic or zero them and any other table you are sensitive about. Am talking here about checking areas of the tune that you dont have any access to so the base tune can be determined. It likely can be fixed with some minor tweaks to realign the ETC curve checks.

[AllOutPerformance]

I could careless about the tune,does it on a stock vette file.The problem looks to be awnsered in a early post (thanks guys) the base file is from a truck but im writting a vette file to it because i need a manual trans file.So ive spoken to the guys at gm and im going to have them put in a vette base file and order a tbody.Tanks again guys for the help.