Problem logging SAE.MAP pid

[TransAm-Z]

I am in the process of converting over to COS3 with a 3 bar map sensor. We got the map sensor scaled close, so at atmosphere it is reading around 99 kpa at around 1.5 volts.

Problem is the SAE.MAP pid will not read a value above 105 kpa.

We tried to view the SAE.MAP pid to see if it was reading correctly and it pulled a vacuum down to 17 kpa and hooked in compressed air around 20psi and saw a voltage logged onto GM.MAP pid of 4.5 volts.

It appears the sensor is working properly (And we tried two sensors) Does anyone know how to change the upper limit of the SAE.MAP pid to read above 105kpa?

Any help would be awesome! Thanks in advance.

[joecar]

Hi TransAm-Z welcome to the forum.

Post log file and screenshots.

[TransAm-Z]

Hi TransAm-Z welcome to the forum.

Post log file and screenshots.

Thanks! Here is a screenshot showing the data tab for the test.

I hooked up a vacuum pump to the MAP sensor and pulled the vacuum down to 16kpa and both GM.MAP & SAE.MAP PIDs seem to function properly. I then slowly pressured the map sensor to about 30psi with my air compressor. The GM.MAP PID shows 4.9 volts, but the SAE.MAP PID only reaches 105 kpa.

If you look at the log file you can see the SAE.MAP PID pegs at 105kpa as the GM.MAP voltage keeps climbing.

Is there some setting in the scan software for boosted engines?

joecar: Thanks for your help with the COS05 to COS03 upgrade (Crussn-SS sent you a PM) upgrade went off without a hitch.

[joecar]

If you have a multi-bar MAP sensor, you will need to set the MAP scaler in the engine diagnostics section, see C6301.

COS5->COS3: cool :cheers: I'm glad it went good, thanks :cheers:

[TransAm-Z]

If you have a multi-bar MAP sensor, you will need to set the MAP scaler in the engine diagnostics section, see C6301.

COS5->COS3: cool :cheers: I'm glad it went good, thanks :cheers:

We did set the scaler in C6301 to 288 yesterday, which seems to be very close, but still needs slight tweaking. I am new to all this stuff, but it seems like the issue is with the logging software as the voltages for the sensor 0-5 volts seems to be very close to the conditions I put the sensor in 16 kpa to around 30 psi gave me .1 to 4.9 volts.

Is there a setup text file for the SAE.MAP PID that would control the display limits for the max map value?

[joecar]

The chart display limits: on the chart go rightclick->Chart Properties, click the Series tab, you can edit the min/max display limits.

[joecar]

Something is wrong, SAE.MAP pegs at 105kPa while GM.MAP voltage continues to rise...

What OS did you start from...?

[TransAm-Z]

Something is wrong, SAE.MAP pegs at 105kPa while GM.MAP voltage continues to rise...

What OS did you start from...?

Originally the car had OS05. We did a full reflash with OS03 the used the OS05 that we downloaded from the car to do the calibration.

Maybe using the OS05 as the calibration caused a problem?

[joecar]

Did you have the full range on SAE.MAP before (with COS5)...?

Try going back to COS5 (all you need to do is full flash from the COS5 file).

[TransAm-Z]

I will try that! If that doesn't work I will Flash COS03 (02020003) then calibrate it with the stock tune for that car.

[TransAm-Z]

I re-flashed my original COS05 file and still SAE.MAP pegs at 105kpa. Also tried a fresh COS03 install and have the same issue. I also tried a different laptop and have the same issue.

Is there anyway to report this as a problem to a EFILIVE programmer? I just wonder if the SAE.MAP PID has a file buried into the program that defines the limits to 105kpa.

If I can't get this PID to report properly is there a way to work around it, such as to create a custom PID? I just want to make sure that I will be able to use the auto tune feature.

[TransAm-Z]

Tried to load the original COS05 file that was pulled out of the car and it doesn't work (SAE.MAP pegs at 105kpa) Also tried a fresh COS03 tune and a different laptop.

Do I need to create a custom PID to monitor boost map pressures? I am at a loss... Is this something that a EFILIVE programmer would look at?

[joecar]

What was the original GM OS that you started with...?

What year/model/vehicle...?

It's not in the EFILive software, it's in the PCM/OS... but I reported this problem Tech Support.

[joecar]

If we can't get this sorted, then we can make a calc pid that converts GM.MAP.V to kPa.

[joecar]

Do you have any tables/parameters that have values that are out-of-range...?

[Blacky]

Is there anyway to report this as a problem to a EFILIVE programmer? I just wonder if the SAE.MAP PID has a file buried into the program that defines the limits to 105kpa.

Yes. \Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Configuration\sae_generic.txt
However, that file already has the upper limit set to 255kPa. So if the value of MAP is pegging at 105kPa, then that is the PCM doing the pegging, not EFILive.

Have you tried the PID called GM.MAPBOOST_DMA?

Regards
Paul

[TransAm-Z]

What was the original GM OS that you started with...?

What year/model/vehicle...?

It's not in the EFILive software, it's in the PCM/OS... but I reported this problem Tech Support.

Car is a 2000 Pontiac TransAm and when it was originally converted COS05 I believe it was calibrated with a 2002 TransAm OS#12212156.


Yes. \Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Configuration\sae_generic.txt
However, that file already has the upper limit set to 255kPa. So if the value of MAP is pegging at 105kPa, then that is the PCM doing the pegging, not EFILive.

Have you tried the PID called GM.MAPBOOST_DMA?

Regards
Paul

I will try this...
When you say the PCM is doing this... Am I going to have problems when the car hit boost cells above 105kpa? Does the PCM use SAE.MAP to control fueling? Kinda scary if it does.

[Blacky]

When you say the PCM is doing this... Am I going to have problems when the car hit boost cells above 105kpa? Does the PCM use SAE.MAP to control fueling? Kinda scary if it does.

No the PCM does not use the SAE PIDs for control.

Just for your interest, there is a specific difference between the SAE PIDs and the GM PIDs.
The SAE PIDs are supposed to provide the technician with the non-defaulted, real sensor value which means when a sensor fails the SAE PIDs MUST return the failed value, not some default value or calculated value that might be used/required for the continued operation of the vehicle.
The GM PIDs are supposed to provide the technician with the actual values used by the controller to operate the vehicle. Those actual values my be computed from other sources if/when a sensor fails.

The EFILive provided DMA PIDs (PIDs ending with _DMA) have been created/configured by EFILive to return the data that is most closely related to the internal workings of the PCM.
DMA = Direct Memory Access and corresponds to the exact data extracted directly from the PCM's RAM that is used by the PCM to look up values in tables in the calibration.

Regards
Paul

[TransAm-Z]

Have you tried the PID called GM.MAPBOOST_DMA?

Regards
Paul

Just tried logging this PID "GM.MAPBOOST_DMA" and I can't get any response from it. (All zeros!) Is there something I need to do to make it link up? Could not find anything in the sae_generic.txt file, also there is no gm.mapboost_dma.rtf file on my system.

Thanks for everyone's help!

[Blacky]

Just tried logging this PID "GM.MAPBOOST_DMA" and I can't get any response from it. (All zeros!) Is there something I need to do to make it link up? Could not find anything in the sae_generic.txt file, also there is no gm.mapboost_dma.rtf file on my system.

Thanks for everyone's help!

Can you please send the custom *.tun file you currently have in the PCM and the log (recorded while that custom *.tun file was in the PCM), that shows the boost PID at zero?
Please send it to paul@efilive.com

Regards
Paul

[TransAm-Z]

If we can't get this sorted, then we can make a calc pid that converts GM.MAP.V to kPa.

I believe the equations should be: CALC PID = GM.MAP (volts) * (Map Scaler - Map offset)/5 volts + (Map Offset) ==> For my 3-bar sensor -- GM.MAP * (288 -10)/5 + 10

Does this look right?

Also does the map offset ever need to be adjusted for a 3-bar sensor? Seems that you would need precision gages if you were to calibrate it corectly.

[joecar]

Let me look that up... I'll edit your calc_pids.txt file tonite (please post it).

[TransAm-Z]

Let me look that up... I'll edit your calc_pids.txt file tonite (please post it).

That's great! Thanks a lot.

[joecar]

Hi TA-Z,

I could not find sufficient info to indicate how accurate *(288-10)/5+10 is, but I made a calc pid for it, it can be edited anytime.

See attached, copy/overwrite your original file with it.

I didn't get a chance to test it, so please let me know if there are any problems.

:)

[TransAm-Z]

Thanks for all your help joecar! I had to add a star in front of *CLC-00-042 to get it to work, but it works great, and I was able to add my own pid by using your format.

The equation ended up being slightly different. (GM.MAP) * (288)/(5.035 volts) + 10.392

To calculate this I used the SAE.MAP pid for the limits 16-99kpa and the GM.MAP voltage out to 5 decimals and it seems to work good. I'm not real sure why there is a slight error in the voltage divider (5.035 v) or the offset (10.392)

If you look at the log file again the CALC.MAP follows the voltage great, but the SAE.MAP does not follow the GM.MAP voltage trend very well. To me it looks like the SAE.MAP is being sent to the logging program before GM.MAP.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Should I use my equation as above or should I put in the values that I think it should be? = GM.MAP * (288/5) +10 ===> Where 288 = map scaler & 10 = map offset in EFILIVE?

Does anyone know how accurate SAE.MAP actually is?

[joecar]

Ah, yes, sorry about the * I was typing too quickly, glad you got it. :cheers:


Put the values you measured/calibrated.

[skorppi]

Hijacking old thread. I have the same problem. 411 PCM in C5 Corvette and SAE.MAP PID wouldn´t show more than 105 kpa. GM.MAP voltage rises but SAE.MAP can´t go over 105 kpa. My basic OS is 12212156 and I have tested both v03 and v05 COS and the problem remains. Is there any solution to get SAE.MAP pid working as it should?

[joecar]

Hijacking old thread. I have the same problem. 411 PCM in C5 Corvette and SAE.MAP PID wouldn´t show more than 105 kpa. GM.MAP voltage rises but SAE.MAP can´t go over 105 kpa. My basic OS is 12212156 and I have tested both v03 and v05 COS and the problem remains. Is there any solution to get SAE.MAP pid working as it should?Try the attached calc_pids.txt.

You have to set your MAP scaler to 288 and MAP offset to 10 (meaning you need a 3-bar sensor).

[skorppi]

Got the problem solved :laugh: Engine was not running when I was testing my map scaling. When I started the engine SAE.MAP worked fine. So in some reason the SAE.MAP would not show values over 105 kpa if the engine is not runinng.

[joecar]

When engine is not running, SAE.MAP should show barometric pressure... if not then there is a mismatch between the MAP sensor and the MAP scaler parameter.

[SW1911]

same problem here running cos 3 and im deadheadding at 105 very scary what do you do with that file joe? would you mind adding it in for me if and when you have time and maybe the stft fixer . i dont like messing with this file since the rr is running good , wont let me attach my ls1b file

[SW1911]

actually while out rr today i ran into a problem besides that , cruising at 55 or maybe 70 at 2000rpm when you let off the idle goes up to 3k until you hit the pedal which sounds like converter in and out but all tables are stock ??? very strange , i wasnt logging the trans so im not sure , maybe a filecheck since efi is new to me

[joecar]

same problem here running cos 3 and im deadheadding at 105 very scary what do you do with that file joe? would you mind adding it in for me if and when you have time and maybe the stft fixer . i dont like messing with this file since the rr is running good , wont let me attach my ls1b fileHey Jim,

You merge the calc_pids.txt file into the existing calc_pids.txt file in the folder My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration

post your existing calc_pids.txt file here and I'll merge it for you.

[joecar]

actually while out rr today i ran into a problem besides that , cruising at 55 or maybe 70 at 2000rpm when you let off the idle goes up to 3k until you hit the pedal which sounds like converter in and out but all tables are stock ??? very strange , i wasnt logging the trans so im not sure , maybe a filecheck since efi is new to meSounds like the throttle cracker/follower tables need to be looked at.

[SW1911]

thanks joe ,
is this the reason it wont roll over to the 115 table on its own ?

[SW1911]

i see one problem with the 105 deadhead c3003 is still at 105 max but the tutorial does not say what values to use , still havent found the weird 70mph 0 tps and the rise in idle

[joecar]

thanks joe ,
is this the reason it wont roll over to the 115 table on its own ?Looks like you did not add the necessary A0009.RRR line:


A0009.RRR=CALC.xxxx

( whatever your BEN pid is )

[joecar]

Are you logging SAE.MAP or GM.MAP...?

[SW1911]

i logged all map pids that were supported just to be sure ,plx auto ve

did you see c3003 in my file ? thought the o/s would have taken care of that ??? just asking

[SW1911]

looks like my offset is incorrect for the cobalt map looking at my file the scaler is real close but im not sure what offset to use , been searching half the day and im getting different answers any help on this ?in kpa

thanks
jim

[joecar]

KOEO the MAP pid should show barometric pressure (usually 100 kPa if you live in a beach city).

[SW1911]

yup offset wat 10 and scaler was like 195 to get 101 , did you ever get a chance to fix my calc links bro? i know yore a real busy man
jim

[SW1911]

maybe this is what we are looking for , this hpam has been on my desk for practice , probably did 50 flashes

[SW1911]

i pasted last line of a0007 table and changed the number to nine , does this look correct ?still dont trust all of the stft fixer codes out there so im not goint to touch it , i thought I would try this part myself to try and take some work off of you joe

thanks
jim

[SW1911]

well that didnt work , boost still isnt picking up my plx ben

[SW1911]

ok I got it , went out and its working now but my fuel trims are awful ,reset before i took off with the roadrunner wonder if the stft fixer would help

[SW1911]

wow ! no help

[joecar]

ok I got it , went out and its working now but my fuel trims are awful ,reset before i took off with the roadrunner wonder if the stft fixer would helpOk, glad you got MAP going...

If LTFT are off, then use them to correct MAF and VE tables.

[joecar]

wow ! no helpSorry, I've been busy the last day or two.

[SW1911]

thats ok joe , you have a hard job, , im mafless ,and the road runner did what you see . log file and tune file above you were asking for in the other post about speed limiter

[joecar]

Jim, post your current calc_pids.txt file (so we can add CALC.STFTBEN to it, if not already present).


Then once you have CALC.STFTBEN defined, in LS1_link.ini add .RRR=CALC.STFTBEN terms to A0009 and A0007:

A0007.RRR=CALC.STFTBEN

A0009.RRR=CALC.STFTBEN

[joecar]

e.g.


A0007.ROW=SAE.RPM
A0007.COL=SAE.TP
A0007.RRR=CALC.WO2BEN,CALC.STFTBEN


A0009.ROW=SAE.RPM
A0009.COL=SAE.MAP
A0009.RRR=CALC.WO2BEN,CALC.STFTBEN

[SW1911]

thanks for the help , im kinda lost when it comes to the calc_links:ermm: appreciate the help

jim

[joecar]

Hi Jim,

what wideband are you using...?

do you already have CALC.STFTBEN defined...? Post your calc_pids.txt file from folder My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration

[SW1911]

aem,,,,,,, log with plx , do you need any more docs or info ,,, owe you some beers dude woops wrong file , im having a few !!!!!

[SW1911]

so this is what i have now

[joecar]

Jim,

I edited your files, see attached, please copy them to their respective directories.

[SW1911]

:Eyecrazy:thanks joe , im wondering if running this RATCS will screw this up since its always changing

[SW1911]

ok so i dorked up there is no plx its auto,veplx, was wondering why i had no racts , would it be a bother to fix this joe

or can i just change the pid name ? Edit , that makes no sense

Thanks


EDIT again , I pulled a dumb dumb , all working
thanks joe

[joecar]

Hi Jim, no worries (we can get anything to work, eventually)...

you got it working...?

[SW1911]

yes i did thank you, but I think the RTACS is fighting the STFT fixer due to the constant changes , on that note , one of the new blowers is on and i keep getting different changes everyday, which may be the blower breaking in , but i purposely, lowered my whole ve 15 percent to see how the changes were being made and found that when i am making changes especially between 1800-2200 rpm high gear when RATCS is done my converter slips when i let off the pedal raising the rpm to 3000 ???? stock trans values and everything is ok before the changes cant figure that one out :Eyecrazy:

thanksjoe

Jim

Edit , this unit uses a PRV that closes at 1500 rpm and opens when the tps is lowered

[joecar]

Hmmm, TCC slips when you release throttle...? Post some log files.

[SW1911]

i will log some trans stuff tomorrow ,
thanks joe
get my pm?

[joecar]

Jim, thanks for the pm :)

[SW1911]

def needs work on the fueling side , but i was able to get the slip to happen about halfway through the file:ermm:

[joecar]

I'll take a closer look later tonite...

[SW1911]

long log , but different tune , problem starts out around frame 4k i think now tcc slip is all over the place and it was ok this morning , i was on a fine run with RTACS and the more it changed the worse it gets ,i never had this problem before ,,,attached is a fresh start this morning , im wondering if the prv is screwing things up, its open until 1500 rpm then closes until you let off the pedal as you can see in the log and the ve , not sure how to cure this and im wondering if the trans problems are linked to this , check out the table you will see what i mean

jim

[codeman_tinck@hotmail.com]

I know this is an old thread but can I use the calc map on a 04073003 os I added it to the cal pids but it comes up as an unsupported pid

[Blacky]

I know this is an old thread but can I use the calc map on a 04073003 os I added it to the cal pids but it comes up as an unsupported pid

If you are using the V7 software, in the [PIDs F8] tab page, right click on the calculated PID and select "More Info...". That will tell you why EFILive thinks it is unsupported. It is usually because one or more PIDs that the calc PID uses is not selected yet. So make sure all the PIDs that are used in the calculated PID's expression are also selected and supported.

Regards
Paul

[codeman_tinck@hotmail.com]

If you are using the V7 software, in the [PIDs F8] tab page, right click on the calculated PID and select "More Info...". That will tell you why EFILive thinks it is unsupported. It is usually because one or more PIDs that the calc PID uses is not selected yet. So make sure all the PIDs that are used in the calculated PID's expression are also selected and supported.

Regards
Paul

you are correct thank you I've been opening and closing scan alot I forgot to select gm map it works as should much appreciated
its odd I didnt have this problem with my 0411 but this will work fine