CALC. VE Problems

[1bar]

Hello,

I took my latest tune, read through the Calc VE pages and Calc VE tutorial, and changed my tune in accordance to run and tune via Calc VE.

I flashed in the new tune and now the car will not start and run. The car will turn over, grumble for a minute and die. If I step on the gas pedal to help there is no difference.

I've attached my tune I used before the Calc tune and the tune that became my Calc tune.

Any ideas?1127111273

[n8dogg]

One thing that really jumps out is the Main VE table... You should get rid of the spikes. I am not 100% sure if that's your problem, but it may be a place to look. Try process of elimination. Copy and paste your old VE table in your new tune and see if it starts. If it does, then your VE table needs work.

[1bar]

N8,

I've begun doing this, but the changing the VE did not get the car to run. I'm going through one by one to see where the problem occurred.

[WeathermanShawn]

Hi 1Bar:

You made a couple of very significant errors. First, you need to be in closed-loop. You need B4205 to be stock. You never entered closed-loop with your settings.

Secondly, and most importantly you must have the MAF Enabled to do CALC.VET. C2901-C2903 is set to 1..that fails the MAF...You MAF must be enabled.

Your car grumbled because it was in Open-Loop SD..and was using your VE Table..which appears to need some work. CALC.VET is a MAF-driven Tune and must be performed in closed-loop to work!

[slows10]

It would probably benefit everyone if the guys that look for help have a signature listing what they drive and the modifications done to it.

[joecar]

1bar,

since you're OLSD you want the AutoVE tutorial...

you could do the Calc.MAF tutorial with wideband only and ignoring the calculated MAF (which is what AutoVE tutorial is).

[WeathermanShawn]

It would probably benefit everyone if the guys that look for help have a signature listing what they drive and the modifications done to it.

Thats a great idea!

[1bar]

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for the replies. The car is a 2000 camaro, COS3, OLSD tune, 7L TT motor, six speed car. The car has two pumps in the tank, return style fuel system WITHOUT boost reference attached, and 60 lbs mototrons. I haven't spent time tuning the car in a while. I knew my tune has been rough for a while and I wanted to get some of the spikes in my VE figured out so I logged on and saw the Calc VE and began reading about tuning with EQ instead of AFR and so on. I also want to be able to tune both in and out of PE.

I did the B9021 transient cax and the Calc VE turtorial suggested tune changes all at once and the car wouldn't start so I backed up and just did the B9021 cax first and the car started but surged hard at idle. Bouncing from 14.1 AFR to 17.1 AFR. Then one by one I adjusted the small pulses adj, min inj pulse, and default min inj pulse so that the car would idle again.

Then I started adding in the Calc VE adjustments and noticed that when I changed B0120 from 4000 to 400 the car did not want to start. I left B0120 @ 4000 RPM and changed all of the other Calc VE adjustments. The car started up and idled fine after I did all of the other Calc VE adjustments so I went back and tried adjusting the B0120 one more time from 4000 to 400 to see if it would run. On the third try the car fired up. Really weird.

The car now runs and idles fine at normal operating temps. I have no clue what it will do at cold start. I only mess with the car on the weekends so next weekend I will watch cold starts.

At this point what method do you guys suggest to auto tune the car?

Thank you,
Glenn

[joecar]

OLSD = can't do Calc.VET (your MAF is failed).

OLSD = can do: AutoVE and/or Calc.MAFT.

[1bar]

Hello Joe,

Which is better, Auto VE or Calc MAFT?

[joecar]

Hello Joe,

Which is better, Auto VE or Calc MAFT?They both do the same thing (Calc.MAFT is the same as AutoVE if CL/LTFT is disabled, i.e. wideband only).

[joecar]

On second thought, follow the Calc.MAFT tutorial, but ignore SELBEN, use WO2BEN instead, use the VE correction and ignore the MAF calculation...

you will have to edit the calc_pids.txt file so that WO2BEN is the analog lambda from your wideband (just like I showed you via pm);

this is exactly like the AutoVE tutorial but uses lambda instead of AFR.


Calculating-MAF-Airflow-From-VE-Table..CALC-VET-In-Reverse (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16413-Calculating-MAF-Airflow-From-VE-Table..CALC-VET-In-Reverse)

do you follow what I'm saying...?

:)

[1bar]

Hello Joe,

I think I'm getting it. What do you mean by (use the VE correction and ignore the MAF calculation...)?

I set the Calc_pids just like you informed me via PM.

So instead of using CALC.SELBEN to paste and multiply with labels I will be using WO2BEN instead?

[joecar]

I think I'm getting it. What do you mean by (use the VE correction and ignore the MAF calculation...)?
You use the VE SELBEN map from the Calc.MAFT tutorial, except you use WO2BEN instead of SELBEN (see options a. and b. below...)...

and you ignore the calculated MAF map (unless you want a MAF table).

you could do either of these:
a. any place where SELBEN is mentioned replace it with WO2BEN,
b. in the calc_pids.txt file edit SELBEN to be equal to pure WO2BEN (i.e. without the iff).

Option b. might be simpler because then you can just read thru the Calc.MAFT tutorial.

Your WO2BEN should be {GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7 (since you have an LC1 and V1).



I set the Calc_pids just like you informed me via PM.
Post the calc_pids.txt file here so I can sanity check it.



So instead of using CALC.SELBEN to paste and multiply with labels I will be using WO2BEN instead?Yes, see options a. and b. above, option b. might be simpler because then you just follow the tutorial without doing mental substitutions.

[mr.prick]

Your WO2BEN should be {GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7 (since you have an LC1 and V1).

Post the calc_pids.txt file here so I can sanity check it.


Can we build a BEN & Lambda pid from the LC-1's programmed values?
For sanity. :angel_innocent:

[joecar]

Can we build a BEN & Lambda pid from the LC-1's programmed values?
For sanity. :angel_innocent:You mean split out the lambda from the ben pid...?

Yes, see the Calc.VET tutorial, it says that this can be done.

[mr.prick]

Just to keep the pid simple. :grin:

And there is a bit of error in the LC-1 default AFR pid.
It should be: ({EXT.AD}*3.008)+7.35

You won't loose much with the longer nested pid but the 0.008 difference will be a factor.

LC-1 default output for Lambda is:
"({EXT.AD}*0.2046)+0.5"

[1bar]

Hey Guys,

My Calc pids is attached. I am using an LC1. Please let me know if this Calc pid is good to go?

In my scanner I have a Calc Vet map set up, but now I need to set up a map for W02BEN then. Correct?

Like Mr. P suggested, do I need to adjust my settings for my LC1 so there is less variance?

Thank you!

[1bar]

Hello,

Im going to try this new Calc reverse method this Saturday. I think my calc pids are correct?

Also, is there a spreadsheet you guys are using to smooth the whole VE table?

[1bar]

Oh yeah. I cannot "Join using" Or when building my filters for this method. Any ideas?

[WeathermanShawn]

No wrong calc_pids.txt. You need to referencing this page: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16413-Calculating-MAF-Airflow-From-VE-Table..CALC-VET-In-Reverse

Use the calc_pids.txt on that page.

No spreadsheet for smoothing the VE Table. You can use the smoothing techniques found on this page: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16280-CALC-VET-Summary-Notes

Good luck.

[1bar]

Thank you Shawn. In the Calc you suggested above I will need to set up for my LC1 correct?

[WeathermanShawn]

Thank you Shawn. In the Calc you suggested above I will need to set up for my LC1 correct?

Yes. If Analog Wideband you will need to set up your calc_pids.txt file to include that.

[joecar]

Yes, make sure your VET-in-reverse calc_pids.txt contains this:



*CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7"

[1bar]

Hello Joe,

Yes my new VET in REV calc has the above text in it.

Two questions.
1. In my scan tool I have a "WO2BEN factor" map that I plan to use to auto tune with. I made it the same as the SELBEN factor map in the Vet in REV page only using WO2BEN. Is this correct?

2. I cant set up the filters the VET in REV page tells me to. For some reason I can't pick OR to join parameters.

Thank you,
Glenn

[joecar]

1. Yes, correct, set the CLC for SELBEN to "{CALC.WO2BEN}" (edit only the stuff in between the quote marks).

2. Can you post a screenshot...

[1bar]

Hello Joe,

1. Ok in the Calc_pids I changed all of the SELBEN in quote marks over to WO2BEN with quote marks.

2.What is the easiest way to attach a screen shot. Its been over a year since I've done one.

Thank you,
Glenn

[WeathermanShawn]

Glenn, try this link for information on hosting an image: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image





(http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image)

[joecar]

Glenn, post the calc_pids.txt you are going to use.

[1bar]

Ok attached is my scanning software and the filters that I am not able to set up?11400

As well as my Calc_pids.txt.114011140011401

I think the Calc pids is correct. I cant set up the filters. Is it because I haven't done a log yet with the new Calc in REV set up?

I think I have my map set up correct as well.

What do you think?

Thank you,
Glenn

[WeathermanShawn]

What Pids are you selecting?

You have to have the 'right' pids selected to filter : http://download.efilive.com/Tutorials/Interactive/How to create a filter.htm (http://download.efilive.com/Tutorials/Interactive/How%20to%20create%20a%20filter.htm)

[WeathermanShawn]

Glenn, thats the wrong calc_pids.txt file.:confused:..

I thought you were doing CALC.MAFT with WO2BEN instead of SELBEN. Where is the calc_pid.txt file you edited?

[1bar]

Hello Shawn,

Yes I am doing Calc VE REV which should be Calc MAFT. Correct?

I downloaded the Calc_pid.txt off of the Calc VE in REV page. What is wrong with it?

I did some logging like this over the weekend and it looks as though my WB sensor is going south. The sensor will work for a bit then whenever it feels like it, the sensor immediately moves from where ever it is to 20.2. I'm gonna talk to Innovate tomorrow morning to see what is up.

Here is my first log. I even put my old tune back in to see if the AFR issue was tune related but it wasn't because I had the same problem with my old tune.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Glenn

11420

[joecar]

Hi Glen, use this calc_pids.txt for Calc.MAFT, I edited it for your analog LC1 connection.

11424

[joecar]

I'll look at your log closer tonite/tomorrow :)

[1bar]

Thank you Joe for taking a moment whenever you have it. I have uploaded your Calc_Pids file and will use it from now on.

Thanks again,
Glenn

[1bar]

Hello Joe,

Since I will be using WO2BEN instead of SELBEN. Aren't there other areas I need to change over on the Calc_Pids file you sent me?

Thanks,
Glenn

[joecar]

Hi Glenn,

Ah, yes, wideband only, I missed that, sorry...

see attached, it sets SELBEN equal to WO2BEN, this allows you to follow the Reverse VE tutorial (correct VE table, ignore MAF).

11425

[1bar]

Hello Joe,

I got the Filter figured out. I have a new o2 sensor and will have it in the car tomorrow.

I have one question though. I do not have a "PE" pid to select for tuning. Please see attached picture. The Calc VET REV has a "PE" pid in the tutorail, but I do have one in the "Tuning" section of my Pid file.

11432

Thank you,
glenn

[joecar]

Hi Glenn,

Shawn and I redefined the CALC.PE pid, it is now CALC.CL since this more accurately describes the condition (closed loop or not).


I'll edit the tutorial.

[1bar]

Hello Joe,

Awesome and thank you.

Since I am OLSD and I am using my WB to tune off of, do I need any of the LTFT related pids or the MAF related pids, or the Heated O2 pids to log?

Thank you,
Glenn

[1bar]

Hello Joe,

One other question. On the filter set up the bottom line states that I will exclude data that is greater then 1.06 lambda. Does this mean if I am boosted I need to raise this amount? Or is the 1.06 related to the AFR.11434

Also I live in California like you and with an iron block I can see temps above 212 F. Will this be a problem in the filter parameters?

Thank you,
Glenn

[joecar]

Hi Glenn,

Since you are OLSD, the following applies to you:
- you want to set SELBEN equal to WO2BEN all the time (i.e. ignores CALC.CL and LTFTBEN).
- you will use the Calc.MAFT tutorial to correct the VE table (and ignore the MAF calculation).


In other words:

The Calc.MAFT tutorial contains all the steps to do both VE table correction and MAF calculation, you will ignore the MAF calculation (you could still do the MAF calculation if you ever needed to run the MAF again).

The Calc.MAFT tutorial uses both WO2BEN and LTFTBEN (and selects between them on the fly using CALC.CL), you will now use only WO2BEN and ignore LTFTBEN and CALC.CL.

Everything else is the same.

[joecar]

Pay close attention to units on the scantool Data tab, and on the map axes, and on the tunetool table axes... this is mentioned in Shawn's summary notes.