Heading to the track in the morning

[DoghouseDiesel]

Loaded up and ready to go.

Heading to Commerce, GA in the morning to play at Atlanta Dragway.

This will be the first chance we've had to put the truck on the track with the EFI Live tuning. Should be interesting.

Quite honestly, I have NO IDEA how it's going to do. If the street performance is an indication, it should do REALLY well.

And yes, the tow rig is running a "healthy" tow tune we did for it with EFI Live.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/Cumminalong/Truck%20Pictures/BOMBrintowsmall.jpg

[DoghouseDiesel]

Well, I'm a little dissappointed to say the least.Had to take the EFI Live tune off and use my normal tune.Could not get the truck over 3000 RPM's. It would hit 3K, sit there a second, shift, pick up to 3k, delay, etc.Went from a low 11 sec truck to 13's. EGT's werent even touching 1k.Checked all the tables and parameters and everything is set to 4200 RPM's, so I'm a little stumped as to why its defueling.

[FUBAR]

I had a built truck doing this exact same thing and was able to fix it. I don't want to start to venture to say what I did to remedy it because I can't imagine it's anything different that what you've already done.

[FUBAR]

Although it was a manual though.

[Dmaxink]

Y'all will get it lined out man

[2007 5.9]

Have you rescaled map voltage??

Solved my defueling problems....

~Les

[DoghouseDiesel]

Yeah, rescaled all the sensors and maps so the MAP sensor is only seeing 30 psi and full fuel is at 21 psi and 2100 RPM's.

It was really weird....it would pull hard to 3000, sit there for a second, shift and repeat each gear.

As soon as it would shift, it would pull great, but it was like it was hitting a limiter at around 3K rpm's.

[2007 5.9]

Yeah, rescaled all the sensors and maps so the MAP sensor is only seeing 30 psi and full fuel is at 21 psi and 2100 RPM's.

It was really weird....it would pull hard to 3000, sit there for a second, shift and repeat each gear.

As soon as it would shift, it would pull great, but it was like it was hitting a limiter at around 3K rpm's.

I went the other way...my map voltage starts at 0-5v is 0-58psi in a diagonal line from corner to corner.

So my map sees 58psi and I get zero cut back.

I know exactly what your talking about...

~Les

[DoghouseDiesel]

Is it actually seeing that pressure in the logs though? Even with rescaling it should only be a 3 bar sensor, so 45 or so should be the limit...unless that's plus barometric pressure.

I gotta go back in to the logs this evening and see where it was defuleing and for what. We didn't get in until 3 am last night and didn't have any time between rounds to really analyze the issue. Just had to go back to a tune that I knew would get it down the track.

[2007 5.9]

Is it actually seeing that pressure in the logs though? Even with rescaling it should only be a 3 bar sensor, so 45 or so should be the limit...unless that's plus barometric pressure.

I gotta go back in to the logs this evening and see where it was defuleing and for what. We didn't get in until 3 am last night and didn't have any time between rounds to really analyze the issue. Just had to go back to a tune that I knew would get it down the track.

I set it to the above, but it sees 51.4psi...so I figure as long as the limiter is above max logged then it's good.

So far 3 trucks with over 50psi gauge have zero issues with defueling after tfe map rescale

~Les

[cumminsDK]

Les

are you changing the axis table for the MAP sensor as well

[2007 5.9]

No..just simply changing the psi to go linear from 0-58psi...I'll try to post a pic tomorrow.

~Les

[DoghouseDiesel]

Les,

That was more than likely the issue.

I just looked at that table and I didn't change it. It still had the 51.4 as the limit and I hadn't rescaled it.

I could have sworn I did, but apparently not.

I'll get it loaded up this afternoon and see what it does.

[Truck Source]

This is the EXACT issue we are having as well. I havent tried rescaling the map voltage tho. PUll to 3k, fall on its face, smoke would go away, shift and pull again thru the next gear. When the tc is locked its more apparent.

We did better than we thought we would tho, 12.6@107 hitting the limiter at 107.

[2007 5.9]

Here is a screenshot of my MAP voltage table...


11375

~Les

[FUBAR]

Les, I just tried your E3255 map (MAP Sensor rescale), and with the truck idling, I got a P0236 Map Sensor Too High Too Long. Any ideas?

[2007 5.9]

I have heard of this with stock trucks...possible causes are...dirty MAP sensor..or failing/lazy sensor.

I have this MAP on 4 trucks right now..and have been doing well with no codes.

~Les

[DoghouseDiesel]

Les, I just tried your E3255 map (MAP Sensor rescale), and with the truck idling, I got a P0236 Map Sensor Too High Too Long. Any ideas?

You need to adjust the turbo parameters so it doesn't look for the boost error....

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/Cumminalong/Dohouse%20Diesel%20Pics/EFI%20Live%20Screen%20Shots/OverboostSettings.jpg

[FUBAR]

Yea, already touched on those Rich. Les, I don't doubt you at all, just curious. I'll play around with it when I have more time. Speaking of what you said though...do many people clean their MAP sensors?

[2007 5.9]

I clean mine as often as I clean my air filter....but I am very particular about my set-up.

~Les

[FUBAR]

I'll definitely do that when I get time. Before going to work this morning I flashed that table I had in it back and no code. I'll just about bet if I try it again I won't get the code that it was probably a freak thing.

And I hear you on the OCD thing. I am too.

[IdahoRob]

Well, I'm a little dissappointed to say the least.Had to take the EFI Live tune off and use my normal tune.Could not get the truck over 3000 RPM's. It would hit 3K, sit there a second, shift, pick up to 3k, delay, etc.Went from a low 11 sec truck to 13's. EGT's werent even touching 1k.Checked all the tables and parameters and everything is set to 4200 RPM's, so I'm a little stumped as to why its defueling.

Did you change E6501 for spooling purposes? I had a customer complaining that my tuning was limited to 3000rpm, which is a complaint I haven't heard from any of the other customers of mine. Turns out he was adjusting things and telling me he didn't change anything. I was beating my head thinking it was an OS problem, when all the time it was something the end user did without my knowledge. Put the E6501 back to stock and it is fine. Seems that table has more control then labeled.

[Truck Source]

adjusted the values in the boost sensor table to see a max of 58 psi. Ive also played with the torque limiters and the fueling tables and was able to hit 3700-3800 last night. it still feels like its defueling at the top of each gear, especially if the tc is already locked. Need to log it again but didnt have time last night to see if its still really defueling or not. The way i set things up it should still make decent power even when it starts to pull mm3

[DoghouseDiesel]

Did you change E6501 for spooling purposes? I had a customer complaining that my tuning was limited to 3000rpm, which is a complaint I haven't heard from any of the other customers of mine. Turns out he was adjusting things and telling me he didn't change anything. I was beating my head thinking it was an OS problem, when all the time it was something the end user did without my knowledge. Put the E6501 back to stock and it is fine. Seems that table has more control then labeled.

Yeah, I had set it to 2100 to use it as a 2-step.

I'll set it back to stock and see if that does it.

Won't be able to put it back on the track this weekend to really find out, but as soon as I can I'll try it both ways and see it it helps.

[TexasCummins]

Les, I just tried your E3255 map (MAP Sensor rescale), and with the truck idling, I got a P0236 Map Sensor Too High Too Long. Any ideas?

After modifying the V vs. PSI chart I've gotten this code twice now over the past week, truck went into limp mode both times. The code also set immediately after starting the truck each time as well?

[DoghouseDiesel]

Make sure you go into the turbo parameters and adjust the ranges there so the ECM isn't looking for the overboost condition.

Just keep in mind that anything over 33 psi or so on that stock turbo is getting outside the efficiency map and not gaining you much. Try to limit your boost pressure on those stock turbos to no more than 35 psi.

Start touching 45 psi and bark it a time or two and you'll be shopping for a new turbo.

[TexasCummins]

My truck is hard pressed to even touch 40psi much less go past it so I'm not worried. I have had the settings changed in the turbo parameters table since I first changed the MAP sensor graph. What I've noticed is both times the code set was after I started the truck after recently shutting it off (getting drinks at the corner store and in a drive-thru).

[2007 5.9]

You might try this...rescale map back to stock format, but increase the ceiling from 51.4 up to 58psi and see if that works.

~Les

[DoghouseDiesel]

You might try this...rescale map back to stock format, but increase the ceiling from 51.4 up to 58psi and see if that works.

~Les

I already bumped the map scale to 60 and reset the neutral limiter.

If it works with those set that way, I'll tinker with switching the two up and down and see which one is having the biggest impact.

Too much stuff to do this weekend to put it on the track and see, besides the weather is looking like garbage, so it'll have to wait until next weekend.

We'll see. Hopefully this takes care of the defuel issue and we can git 'r did.

[skneeland]

After modifying the V vs. PSI chart I've gotten this code twice now over the past week, truck went into limp mode both times. The code also set immediately after starting the truck each time as well?

mine did this as well & i also set the the turbo parameters to not look for an overboost condition. I tried changing to ceiling anywhere from 45 to 60psi & still had the code. Logging it showed it reading 30psi at an idle....

I just changed it back to stock span for the time being

[FUBAR]

I just wonder if even though we're modifying the turbo trouble code limits so the ECM won't run a test, if what we're changing is only what we THINK we're changing and it's actually not taking effect.

Case is point, under Misc Parameters I have my automatic door lock set so they should never lock, but they STILL do. Makes me wonder how many other things that we THINK we are changing or modifying but are actually not.

[TexasCummins]

I just wonder if even though we're modifying the turbo trouble code limits so the ECM won't run a test, if what we're changing is only what we THINK we're changing and it's actually not taking effect.

Case is point, under Misc Parameters I have my automatic door lock set so they should never lock, but they STILL do. Makes me wonder how many other things that we THINK we are changing or modifying but are actually not.

I've noticed that too... my speedometer was calibrated for 32" tires and after I had my set of 35" tires remounted I changed the tire rev per mile parameter and flashed the truck. My speedometer was still showing the speed for the 32" tires according to my GPS so I had to use another programmer I had to flash the ABS to correct it.

[IdahoRob]

There will be tables that don't work correctly, but take note of your finding and post them up so the efi crew can filter through. They have always been great making needed changes as the updates move forward.

I've got quite a few twin trucks making over 60psi without issues.

[olboyowl]

Make sure you go into the turbo parameters and adjust the ranges there so the ECM isn't looking for the overboost condition.

Just keep in mind that anything over 33 psi or so on that stock turbo is getting outside the efficiency map and not gaining you much. Try to limit your boost pressure on those stock turbos to no more than 35 psi.

Start touching 45 psi and bark it a time or two and you'll be shopping for a new turbo.

if i wanted to gate my turbo back to 35 psi max, would this be accomplised in the boost pressure, voltage to pressure conversion table {3255}?

[DoghouseDiesel]

if i wanted to gate my turbo back to 35 psi max, would this be accomplised in the boost pressure, voltage to pressure conversion table {3255}?

Is this Denny?

[DoghouseDiesel]

Denny,

It "looks" like if you keep the OEM boost pressure voltage axis the way it is and set the boost pressure, voltage to pressure conversion so that 35 psi is registering as APPROX 2.97 volts, that will gate it at 35 psi.

It's not perfect, but that should get you close enough to dial it in.

I don't have a stock turbo truck sitting here to try it and verify it on, but looking at the tables that should give you a start point.

[IdahoRob]

Keep the boost wastegate settings stock and it will limit to 32-34psi, but if towing heavy, egt's will be bad. Start working the min. wastegate duty cycle until you find the happy place.

[olboyowl]

rich, bp, voltage to pressure conversion graph goes from .50 volts up to 4.50 volts. the only thing its alowing me to change is kPa and not voltage.
rob, when i hit 45 on the logged run, it was still set to stock parameters. will work on min duty cycle on thurs. stuck at work till then. did u get my email?

thank u both

[DoghouseDiesel]

Denny,

Don't adjust the boost pressure voltage axis. Leave that alone.

It ramps from 0.50 volts to 4.50 volts....no big deal there. Using that and where the ECM normally gates the turbo, it looks like the voltage is approx 2.97 volts.

Using that, modify table E3255 (Boost Pressure, Voltage to Pressure Conversion) so that the boost pressure you want it to gate at is the same voltage as it opens the gate at now, 32 - 33 psi. If it's doing what I think it is, the ECM is looking for this specific voltage to open the gate.

Now, what you need to understand is this. Regardless of where you want the wastegate to open, the wastegate passage on the stock turbo is tiny. If you keep putting fuel to it, the gate will be open but it can only bleed off so much pressure and you'll likely keep making boost above the level you want.

Think of it like a fire hose. There is a limit to how much you can put through it, right. Put too much pressure to it and the hose will 1 - not flow anymore volume and 2 - eventually it will burst. Same applies to a wastegate passage. It can only move so much air.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/Cumminalong/Dohouse Diesel Pics/EFI Live Screen Shots/WastegateVoltage.jpg

[Dmaxink]

Nice job man..I was trying to create a map that would give us where the voltage vs psi was as stock.. but time has been my weakness lately.

[olboyowl]

got this straightened out last night with rich. thanks again man. pay your dam electric bill ; )

[DoghouseDiesel]

got this straightened out last night with rich. thanks again man. pay your dam electric bill ; )

Okay funny man....you go ahead and try that file I sent ya....don't pay any attention to the timing at 45* at 400 - 600 RPM's.....

:rockon:

:grin:

[olboyowl]

the egts will be down...

[DoghouseDiesel]

Got a decent pass in tonight.

Wasn't planning on running the truck tonight, so it was on street tires and a full tank of fuel.

This is the fastest pass the truck has done on street tires. I spun out of the hole pretty good, but it picked up fine.

This was an 1/8th mile on a .500 P/T. 7.31 translates to approx 11.40 on the 1/4.

At 7160 lbs (half tank of fuel w/ me in it), that's approx 811 HP at the wheels.

Gotta say, I'm not at all displeased for a tune that hasn't been dyno'd.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/Cumminalong/Truck Pictures/22July731.jpg

[Dmaxink]

Congrats rich, your reppin the Efilive community well!!!

[DoghouseDiesel]

It's gettin' there. This is the tune I've been running everyday, not a trailer it to the track tune.

Was gonna strap it back down next Saturday and dial it in.......until the wife reminded (i.e. informed) me we have a wedding to go to next Saturday.

:help2:

[Mr. P.]

Wow - that's a great pass, well done! A 1.66 60' on street tires is very impressive.

Mr. P. :)

[DoghouseDiesel]

Wow - that's a great pass, well done! A 1.66 60' on street tires is very impressive.

Mr. P. :)

I was pretty surprised it pulled that 60' time with the street tires. All I did was drop the rears to 35 and fronts to 40 and it hooked.

Normally with the ET Streets on it, it goes 1.59 - 1.61 for the 60's.

Only reason I brought it out was a 'vette was tearing up some of the street cars and I wanted a piece of him.....

After that pass he didn't wanna come down to the lanes any more.

It shoulda been a good race, I've seen him go 7.20's on drag radials.

[Mr. P.]

...After that pass he didn't wanna come down to the lanes any more...

LOL yeah we've seen that attitude from a couple guys here too, but usually they've been the new mustang owners. Oh well!

Kudos to you, those kinds of results only come after lots of dedication. I'm only mustering a measly 1.85!

Mr. P. :)