Tunring Pilot off completely ??

[icem237]

Well I have the pilot even off completely and something i have noticed is that when engine is cold, say at the start of your day, start up is rough with lots of white smoke, then given about 60 seconds or so it clears up and runs perfectly fine. When engine is warmed up to operating temp or close it starts fine.

Seems like timing is in need of adjustment. This occurs with nothing else modified or whether tuning has had a few other modifications. Cant be too hard of an adjustment.

Truck drives out great otherwise its just when cold cranking then it finally levels out. I was thinking of increasing timing but not sure how to go about it .

Need some clues!! Thanks in advance!

PS... Even before i had efi live , when cold i would notice a slight puff of white smoke. This just seems more exagerated version of that. I always thought of a stuck injector.

[2007 5.9]

Timing adjustment is needed at idle for a no-pilot cold start to happen. Without pilot your either looking at a 15* main event or if the 20* offset is a factor your looking at a -5* main event. Which would account for the white smoke..

Try bumping main timing at idle up to 30* and see how it runs.

~Les

[icem237]

Timing adjustment is needed at idle for a no-pilot cold start to happen. Without pilot your either looking at a 15* main event or if the 20* offset is a factor your looking at a -5* main event. Which would account for the white smoke..

Try bumping main timing at idle up to 30* and see how it runs.

~Les

Are you saying change it in the base table and the 4 tables there after?

[icem237]

11374 HERE?? OR in the other tables i asked about?

[2007 5.9]

I'm pretty sure when I did mine I just changed the base timing table.... When I get home at my computer, I'll look through my notes and give you a definitive answer.

~Les

[icem237]

I'm pretty sure when I did mine I just changed the base timing table.... When I get home at my computer, I'll look through my notes and give you a definitive answer.

~Les

Patiently waiting! :grin:

[2007 5.9]

I just looked at my notes....looks like I set all tables (main,adjust 1,2,3,4) all to 25* with no pilot. Seems that it worked well cold, but driving with my large turbo was impossible.

i now run a modified pilot, main and post table...

~Les

[icem237]

the complete table to 25* or??? sorry for my ignorance.

[icem237]

I just looked at my notes....looks like I set all tables (main,adjust 1,2,3,4) all to 25* with no pilot. Seems that it worked well cold, but driving with my large turbo was impossible.

i now run a modified pilot, main and post table...

~Les

the complete table to 25* or??? sorry for my ignorance.

[2007 5.9]

Yes, the entire table to 25*

~Les

[icem237]

Yes, the entire table to 25*

~Les

I let you know my results!

[2007 5.9]

I let you know my results!

It might not work as well...every truck acts differently.

But should get you on the right path.

~Les

[Dmaxink]

Just to clairfy, i dont think Les means he put the whole entire table to 25, just that individual area! lol

Ice, it may be a good idea to study for a brief moment the effects pilot timing has on main timing during the injection event... The same information from duramaxes will apply to this also.

[icem237]

Well here is what i figured out. The pilot has a adjustment for temp and the main does not. the only way im going to get the start up to work right is if there is a way to get the pilot to work up to a certain temp and then it can sshut off.

Just to clarify its only at startup do i have this issue and once it idles its fine unless i shut down again before the engine temp is at atleast around 170 i would say. Once at least that warm it starts up perfectly.

So unless there is a way to either A. add the temp adjustment to the main injection timing tab or B. temporarilly turn on the pilot till the temp gets up to somewhere around 170.

Unless anyone has any ideas ill just add the pilot back in and roll it off at a certain point.

[icem237]

I figured it our ..... Had 0 to do the the base timing of the main injection. It had everyhing to do with he main event cranking timeing. Adjusted that and it works flawlessly no matter what the egine coolant temp is.

:cucumber:

[2007 5.9]

Thats strange....mine had everything to do with main timing...

~Les

[icem237]

Thats strange....mine had everything to do with main timing...

~Les

Im not sure les. maybe with all the mods you have it responded differently. I know my base table needs tweaking but atleast it starts and drives properly now.

I just advanced it up in the 60 - 100 *F range. Fires up perfectly now.

[FUBAR]

Adjusted that and it works flawlessly no matter what the egine coolant temp is.

I just advanced it up in the 60 - 100 *F range. Fires up perfectly now.

I'm a little confused. Not trying to be an arse either.

[icem237]

I'm a little confused. Not trying to be an arse either.

Lol im sorry. I get ahead of myself sometimes and do not state things clearly.

The truth is that for me with the pilot off , I had to adjust the main injection engine startup timing. Once i advanced the time up, from 0-900 RPM in the 60 to 100*F range it starts perfectly with zero smoke.

All along i thought it was the main injection base timing. So i just took a shot in the dark, thinking well it only does the rough stuff a second or 2 at startup so why not try and advance the timing during start up. Sure enough it worked.

Before the adjustment i had hard start where it would white smoke for about 60 seconds and run rough, then clear up and idle fine and drive out ok. To put it in perspective , it smoked just like a stuck injector at startup. Thats alot of white smoke. Even had my injectors tested to make sure they were ok.

Hope its alittle more clear now.

[icem237]

Wanted to say thank you for everyone's patients ...... lol I know it can be aggravating.

[FUBAR]

Alright, so I zeroed out all the Pilot quantity tables, advanced the Main Cranking 0-900 rpm 60-100*F table, advanced the main timing table around idle part to about 25* and smoothed the transition a little, and increased main duration a bit down low. Truck started fine, idled fine. Rolling on the throttle or stabbing it while cruising at a idle (I.e. 30 mph or so) runs just fine. BUT, if pulling out from an idle, and I stab it, it spits,sputters and smokes. Just throwing this out there, any ideas appreciated too...just gotta find time to tinker and have fun. EDIT***http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx153/motocraneguy17/f691fc86.mp4

[KB3MMX]

Guys, is the goal of eliminating the pilot injection to eliminate a tuning variable or something ?

I would think the smoother pressure rise with pilot injection use would be beneficial to bottom end and headgasket life, no?

[FUBAR]

I've gotten it to where it starts, idles and can hammer it with no problem. Just a small puff of white smoke if I rev the piss out of it in neutral.

Other than the pure fun factor of it being able to demonstrate full command of the engine and such I believe is being able to increase the Main Injection due to lost Pilot and create a bigger more powerful explosion. I see views on both sides of the fence as well though. Definitely worth debating for sure I believe.

[icem237]

Fubar is right! Ive used his and my ideas and it runs fine! Ive had several guys ask me what i did to this truck .... I just laugh! Tell'm it has a old 2ng in it lol... Love the look on there faces. Then i explain.

So anyway it does work and it is an option. Just takes close attention to TIMING. Thats the big key on this one.

[FUBAR]

Just takes close attention to TIMING. Thats the big key on this one.

True dat. lol

[2007 5.9]

I "Should" have dyno time this friday...if I can get on I will be doing some testing with pilot off vs pilot on...post off vs post on etc...

~Les

[FUBAR]

Any luck? I've got the truck to run right with no Pilot and no post, but I haven't been home in a week to flash truck to start adding power to it to see if I can compensate and gain something more than just sound out of the single injection event.

From another guy I've been talking to, he said he definitely got a kick in the pants down low out of it, but he's trying to control his egt's.

-Andrew

[2007 5.9]

Any luck? I've got the truck to run right with no Pilot and no post, but I haven't been home in a week to flash truck to start adding power to it to see if I can compensate and gain something more than just sound out of the single injection event.

From another guy I've been talking to, he said he definitely got a kick in the pants down low out of it, but he's trying to control his egt's.

-Andrew

No luck...I spent 5hrs in the dyne with a 24v sled puller and 4 hours with a SRT-4 Neon...by the time we were done it was 2:30am.

One of these days I will actually schedule myself into my schedule instead of others!!!

~Les

[MQ105]

ANy update Les?

[2007 5.9]

No dyno time yet...I am flooded with work and home life right now...

I also stopped working on the single event tune...as I could not get rid of off idle and cruising smoke. Other than that, my single tune ran awesome. Great pedal comntrol and smooth power...and that great 12v sound.

~Les