Need VVE tuning help

[2007chevy5.3l]

Hi all, Im new here and need some help/advice on getting my VVE tuning started. Im using this tutorial http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=199&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.performancetrucks.net%2Fforum s%2Ftuning-diagnostics-electronics-wiring-161%2Fanyone-use-vve-tutorial-486690%2F&v=1&libid=1312771326530&out=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.efilive.com%2Fattachment.ph p%3Fattachmentid%3D3851%26d%3D1220570537&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.performancetrucks.net%2Fforum s%2Ftuning-diagnostics-electronics-wiring-161%2F&title=Anyone%20use%20this%20VVE%20tutorial%3F%20-%20PerformanceTrucks.net%20Forums&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.efilive.com%2Fattachment... .1%26amp%3Bd%3D1220570537&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13127714549851 to set everything up. Well I have triple checked everything and my truck will not run on it. If anyone can shed some light on what im doing wrong and point me in the right direction thatd be great. Heres how I have it set up.11614

[Taz]

Hello 2007chevy5.3l,

I took a quick look at the tune you posted - the changes you made followed Swingtan's VVE Adjustment Tutorial fairly well - you also altered the VVE RPM and MAP zone boundaries - no problem there - but it looks like a problem occurred when you regenerated the VVE coefficients and table.

The truck probably won't run on that VVE table (B8101).

If you post your original tune (original VVE table) I will fix it for you.


Regards,
Taz

[swingtan]

Also, post a log of the start-up. That will help to show what's going on.

Simon.

[Taz]

Hello Simon,

I don't think you ever sleep !!! Just after 8:00 AM here ... guessing it's after 10:00 PM for you (if you are near Sydney).


Regards,
Taz

[Tre-Cool]

my advise with the vve in the e38, dont even bother using the ben factors to make adjustments to your fuel table.

use them as a guide as to how much fuel to add or subtract from your table and do the area's manually via a specific percent everytime.

i've found this method much easier to work on the ve table and it generally makes the map close to almost exact in the area's you havent changed due to the way the co-effeciants work.

[2007chevy5.3l]

Hello 2007chevy5.3l,

I took a quick look at the tune you posted - the changes you made followed Swingtan's VVE Adjustment Tutorial fairly well - you also altered the VVE RPM and MAP zone boundaries - no problem there - but it looks like a problem occurred when you regenerated the VVE coefficients and table.

The truck probably won't run on that VVE table (B8101).

If you post your original tune (original VVE table) I will fix it for you.


Regards,
Taz

Hello Taz, I know what your talking about and do remember regenerating the VVE coefficients and the table did look different from the original so I figured that was ok..? I guess it isnt the right one. Please tell me what all you did to fix it so I wont have this problem in the future.
Thanks a bunch for the help :cheers:

[2007chevy5.3l]

Also, post a log of the start-up. That will help to show what's going on.

Simon.

Suggested PIDs for the first start up?

[2007chevy5.3l]

my advise with the vve in the e38, dont even bother using the ben factors to make adjustments to your fuel table.

use them as a guide as to how much fuel to add or subtract from your table and do the area's manually via a specific percent everytime.

i've found this method much easier to work on the ve table and it generally makes the map close to almost exact in the area's you havent changed due to the way the co-effeciants work.

Very Interesting. I will take this into consideration when I get there. Thanks for the tip

[2010TestCar]

I noticed that when I made changes to the VVE RPM and MAP Zone, saved the tune and returned, was almost flat accross the board with a big spike in the middle... is that happening to you or anyone else here?

[2007chevy5.3l]

I noticed that when I made changes to the VVE RPM and MAP Zone, saved the tune and returned, was almost flat accross the board with a big spike in the middle... is that happening to you or anyone else here?

Wish I could help you out but I havent even got there to that part yet

[Taz]

OK ... as a disclaimer I am just starting to work with Gen IVs ... Swingtan is our resident expert.

You had asked that I explain any changes ... here goes ... the tune had not been properly setup for VVE tuning.

B1503 & B1504 had not been disabled
B0156 was set to 0.4 - it should have been set to 4.0
the MAF & MAF associated MILs were not setup per the VVE tutorial
B8101 had an error in zone 12 - too few cells - caused by your B8021 (MAP Zone Boundary) settings
The attached tune below should be in OL with STFT, LTFT, DFCO, and MAF disabled - ready for the VVE tuning process.

Do not forget to reset the LTFT - even if these are disabled they will continue to be applied unless reset.


Regards,
Taz

[swingtan]

Good work Taz.


I noticed that when I made changes to the VVE RPM and MAP Zone, saved the tune and returned, was almost flat accross the board with a big spike in the middle... is that happening to you or anyone else here?


Wish I could help you out but I havent even got there to that part yet

There is a step in the VVE guide that specifically addresses this. If you alter the zone boundaries ( RPM and / or MAP ), you need to repopulate the VVE table after first saving the tune file. It is due to the way that EFILive builds the VVE maps on when it opens a tune file. The simple method, is to go to {B8101} and select all, then copy with labels. Then make changes to the zone boundaries. Then save the file as a new tune, followed by reopening the new tune file. then go to {B8101} and you will see its shape have changed, so then just "paste with labels" to put the VVE shape back to standard. Generate the coefficients, generate the VVE and you are back to normal.

The more "correct" method is to open the new tune and the old tune at the same time, and copy the following MAPs over from the original tune to the new tune, post zone modification.

{B8105}
{B8106}
{B8155}
{B8156}

This will then cater for all combinations of forced induction, intake tuning valves and AFM operation. The original VVE guide I wrote was specifically aimed at {B8101}.

Simon.

[2007chevy5.3l]

Taz,
I understand were I went wrong in tables B1503, B1504 and B0156. What I dont understand is how the MAF & MAF associated MILs were not setup per the VVE tutorial? I thought I set them all to Not Reported. The tutorial says-"Parameter: P0101, P0102 and P0103
Set all to “No MIL”".. Second, I dont see where you are getting the numbers for RPM selection 3-5 in the B8020 table. Stock it shows the numbers being 16 and you set them to 21 in those cells.. All that the tutorial says is- "The stock settings are
pretty good, but you may want to drop the “MAP 1” values to help set the idle airflow."

Maybe im missing something (again) lol?

[Taz]

I'm glad you mentioned you had adjusted the MAF related MILs - this caused me to re-examine the tune file. Per the tutorial the MAF related MILs are to be set to "No MIL" - this is done in the "DTC MIL" subfolder. You had gone into the "DTC Type" subfolder and set these to "Not Reported" - which I missed when I looked at your tune.

The diagnostics (DTC Type folder) need to remain active so that the ECM will fail the MAF, and default to the VVE table. I have corrected this in the revised tune below.

I'm not sure how to answer your MAP Zone Boundary (B8021) question - the MAP 1 values in the "original" tune (post #6) were 30, 25, 21, 21, 21 - reading down the column. I confirmed these as being stock with another similar tune file.

In the VVE tune from post #1 - these values were 25, 20, 16, 16, 16 - so you changed them at some point - I merely returned them to stock.


Regards,
Taz

[Tre-Cool]

i've found with the e38 in my car, that if you leave the following:
MAF Test Min RPM (RPM)
Parameters Value
{C0312} MAF Test Min RPM 300.000000 RPM

the car will start and drop rpm, almost like a stall. my car has been doing this since day 1.

i thought i'd be clever last night and changed it to 2000rpm.

first start this morning and pow! no more start up to 1200rpm, instant drop to 500, then back up to 1000rpm idle.

car started and sat straight on 1000rpm.

[Dieselman]

Do not forget to reset the LTFT - even if these are disabled they will continue to be applied unless reset.


This is VERY important. I spent a long time trying to work out what was happening with my tune until I saw my LTFT's were disabled but still ACTIVE


Cheers

Ben

[Taz]

i've found with the e38 in my car, that if you leave the following:
MAF Test Min RPM (RPM)
Parameters Value
{C0312} MAF Test Min RPM 300.000000 RPM

the car will start and drop rpm, almost like a stall. my car has been doing this since day 1.

i thought i'd be clever last night and changed it to 2000rpm.

first start this morning and pow! no more start up to 1200rpm, instant drop to 500, then back up to 1000rpm idle.

car started and sat straight on 1000rpm.

Thank you for sharing that information Tre-Cool ... I have gathered many "work arounds" for the Gen III controllers, but sometimes feel like I'm blindfolded as I try to comprehend how the Gen IV controllers work. The E38 is a great controller - just a little complicated when compared to an LS1-B controller.


Regards,
Taz

[2007chevy5.3l]

Well guys my laptop crashed lastnight so my tuning session has stopped for the moment. Too bad efilive doesnt work on an android...
Taz, i was having trouble with generating the coeffs before the crash so when i get it back and running again i will have a question for ya.
Thanks for the help and i will post up when im back at it again.

[2007chevy5.3l]

Okay I need some help, I cant seem to make this happen-



NOTE:


Before moving on, you should do 3 things…

1. Go to B8101, press <F4>, select all cells and “copy with labels”

2. Save the current tune (after adjusting the previous 2 parameters) as a new tune file.

3. “Re-open” the same file, and go to B8101. It should look somewhat different to

previously if you have changed the previous parameters. Select all cells and “Paste

with labels” to return the VVE to a stock like map. Click on “Generate Coeffs”

and “Generate VVE” to complete the process.



When I do this it doesnt make any chage to the B8101 map and i click on the Generate Coeffs it doenst do anything either... Whats the deal??

[etmotorsports]

When you paste the number back to the vve are they different?

[swingtan]

The VVE shape will only change if you altered the zone boundary settings. If you didn't change the zone boundary settings, the VVE shape will not change.

[2007chevy5.3l]

When you paste the number back to the vve are they different?

No they are the same..


The VVE shape will only change if you altered the zone boundary settings. If you didn't change the zone boundary settings, the VVE shape will not change.

I did change the zone boundary settings in RPM sections 1 and 2. Do all 5 have to be changed? If so what should I change them to? Right now its at 25 20 21 21 21

[swingtan]

Are you opening the file you saved?

The theory is that the VVE generation only reads the zone boundaries at file open time. They are not "re-read" when the VVE coefficients are generated or the VVE its self is generated from the VVE window. If you change the zone boundaries at all, you must save the file with the new zone boundaries, then reopen the file so that Tunetool will read the new zone boundary settings and apply them to the VVE generation. When this occurs, the shape of the VVE will change, sometimes quite dramatically, so you need to copy the original VVE values over the top of the changed VVE. Then when you generate the coefficients and VVE, you return all the settings back to values that will always give a somewhat normal VVE shape.

So the end goal of this step is to make the VVE shape the same as it was before any changes were made to the zone boundaries.

Simon.

[2007chevy5.3l]

Okay heres what I did. I changed the zone boundaries, copied the VVE values with lables, saved the tune as a new file name, reopened it, go to the B8101 map, VVE values look the same, I paste with lables and nothing happens. Ive done it several different ways with no results :confused:


*Edit- I had to change the B8020 from 2000, 3500, 4500, 5500 to 2100,3600,4600,5600 and did the copy paste and it let me generate coeffs and generate VVE which did change the look of the overall VVE map. Is that going to be alright?

[swingtan]

That sounds correct. I'm assuming that previously, the zone boundaries had been changed previously and the the VVE modified since that time. As I mentioned before, it's only when the zone boundaries are changed between VVE updates that the shape will also change. Once this has been done, it only needs to be done again if the zones are changed again.

[2007chevy5.3l]

Yes sir, you are correct, I think that they had been changed and that was throwing me off this entire time. I believe im on the right track now, finally


Why is it that I cannot change some of my parameters from Lambda to AFR? Its doing it in the tune and scan tool.. Tried changing it in the configure display units but theres not even an option