5.9L Pulsewidth and Fueling unlocked

[GMPX]

One of the biggest single requests we've had since our first public release was to develop additional controls for more RPM's.

Parameters have been modified, added to, changed and pulled in every direction to provide the best control possible. However, it's been a bit of a double edged sword. While RPM controls have been taken care of (remember the 5,400RPM run by Fleece), there have been other factors sitting in the background still limiting the overall results.

These have been Fueling limiters and final injection pulsewidth limiters.

Once our 2012 GM gasser stuff was sorted out we got right back on to the Cummins. Steady progress has been made over a number of weeks. We set about "hacking" an OS and finding a suitable test truck. The test truck came from one of our beta tester's customers, with just one problem - all the testing would be done remotely to the beta tester. Not ideal, but it was a start. Within the first week, the boys had hit the first jackpot - another limiter had been found. But it quickly dawned that there were further pieces to the puzzle, so it was back to the drawing board.

We created some custom PID's in the scan tool to log what was happening within the many limiter routines and several more of our beta testers now had trucks that were able to run our custom OS to speed up feedback, and test on both auto and manual trucks.

Yesterday, with a highly modified OS patch job, and some custom PID's our testers successfully moved to the next level. What they discovered wasn't a commanded fuel limiter as such, but it was limiting fuel.

We now have about 6 trucks (both auto and manual transmissions) running around with unlimited fueling to 3600RPM.

One of our beta testers commented " 3000pw all the way to 3600 rpms! Suffering pressure loss for the first time and that makes me happy!" This truck runs twins, larger nozzles, so I guess it's not really stock.

What this means is that we've now hit the next level of limiters and require the next level of trucks to continue developing these parameters. Stock just isn't going to cut it from here on up! The next limit seems to be kicking in around 3800 RPM and we are working on resolving this as we speak.

The new parameter to stop the pulse width drop will be in our next software release, scheduled for next week. If for some reason it doesn't make the cut for the next release, we'll release a patch once they are mapped out for all OS's.

Below is a screen shot from the scan tool showing on one of these beta trucks that they have now gone past the capability of the fuel system because there is now so much fuel being injected, nearly 3000uS injector pulse time at 3,400RPM.

With this breakthrough it's fair to say that if you (or your tuner) aren't using EFILive then you are going to get left behind because up to now no other tuner has been able to maintain such high injection pulse times to this RPM.

Cheers,
Ross

http://download.efilive.com/Software/Images/Log_Post.png

[Dmaxink]

Beta has worked really hard on this but guys understand this...Ross (gmpx) has achieved as a developer what no other company has done..and he has been in it for less time than any of the big dogs. Remember, while cummins has.gotten this far..he has still maintained updating operating systems, answering questions, and advancing Efilive while all at the same time of breaking barriers with cummins. Ross, pat yourself on the back brother..we appreciate what you guys have set on the table for us... keep up the amazing work!

[06redram]

I got to say i have been given a chance to beta test a tune with these newly open fuel limiting tables. All i got to say is my truck runs like I spent $6000 in the motor. It's not the same truck. I like to give a BIG THANKS to EFI LIVE guys for the hard work and time in the development in making the cummins owners dreams come true. Thanks beta team! (KW-man u work your magic on this tune)

[LReiff]

Thanks for the ongoing effort, Ross and crew!

[chizwizdiz]

Beta has worked really hard on this but guys understand this...Ross (gmpx) has achieved as a developer what no other company has done..and he has been in it for less time than any of the big dogs. Remember, while cummins has.gotten this far..he has still maintained updating operating systems, answering questions, and advancing Efilive while all at the same time of breaking barriers with cummins. Ross, pat yourself on the back brother..we appreciate what you guys have set on the table for us... keep up the amazing work!


Agreed!! Thanks again EFI Live Team!!

[olboyowl]

good deal

[comnrailpwr]

Thanks for the hard work.!

Spray & Pray

[ScarabEpic22]

I havent had a chance to tune a Cummins yet, but watching these developments unfold in pretty rapid succession is amazing. Might not seem fast to most people, but I know how it works in the IT world, and coding is time consuming to say the least.

Lets see some bigger #s with fully built trucks! :D

[AFTERMATH DIESEL]

I havent had a chance to tune a Cummins yet, but watching these developments unfold in pretty rapid succession is amazing. Might not seem fast to most people, but I know how it works in the IT world, and coding is time consuming to say the least.

Lets see some bigger #s with fully built trucks! :D

Our dyno is down but hopefully we will getting the computer for it next week. I have two trucks that both have a dual pumps,twins and fully built lower ends. From the way these trucks are on the street I'm gonna guess and say we've gotten atleast 100hp more but hopefully next week I'll have some before and after dyno sheets.

Thanks to the EFI Live crew

[FUBAR]

I set the new table to "Minimum" and not only did uS suffer drastically, so did mm3. And the only change to the tune was modifying the new table. Minimum means the limiter minimally limits pulsewidth for longest pulsewidth possible..right?

Thanks,

[GMPX]

FUBAR, 'Minimum' is the correct setting, very odd it sent you backwards, what OS is your truck running?
Oh, also make sure there is no pilot if you want maximum fuel on the main, if there is pilot there is some scaling back of the main too.

[FUBAR]

FUBAR, 'Minimum' is the correct setting, very odd it sent you backwards, what OS is your truck running?
Oh, also make sure there is no pilot if you want maximum fuel on the main, if there is pilot there is some scaling back of the main too.

OS: 11352601

As far as Pilot goes, It commands 481uS up to 3200RPM, then supposed to shut off untill mm3 drops to 120mm3 then kicks back in at 481uS. Now...where my mm3 was dropping, (maybe due to my duration being cut back??) Pilot was carrying on up in the Nether region of the RPM's.

I've got a solution though. I'm gonna completely shut off Pilot to eliminate the possibility of it hindering anything. Guess when my buddy and I played around with getting the truck to run right on a single injection event, it had more credit than just a novelty item. That's what's cool about EFI, the ability to do this. Back to the 7.3 Stroker sound...well at least my injectors will last longer on a single event, but that's another topic for a different day.

-FUBAR

[GMPX]

Kill off the pilot pulse in it's commanded mm3 table, not the pulse width table. The routine that scales back the main pulse checks the pilot commanded mm3, not pulse time. So if you zero the pilot pulse table only, other parts of the code will still be thinking there is pilot being commanded.

[FUBAR]

Ross,
Thanks. I actually kill all the Pilot quantity tables and adjust timing to make it run. Anywhoo, I just logged a run and woohoo!!!!! Carried pulse right up to about 3500rpm when it started to taper off. mm3 only tapered off slightly. Besides the pants-of-the-seat feeling, I knew I had more pulse (fuel) up top when I glanced and seen my EGT gauge pegged at 1600 instantly. Lol

Thanks!

[icem237]

OS: 11352601

As far as Pilot goes, It commands 481uS up to 3200RPM, then supposed to shut off untill mm3 drops to 120mm3 then kicks back in at 481uS. Now...where my mm3 was dropping, (maybe due to my duration being cut back??) Pilot was carrying on up in the Nether region of the RPM's.

I've got a solution though. I'm gonna completely shut off Pilot to eliminate the possibility of it hindering anything. Guess when my buddy and I played around with getting the truck to run right on a single injection event, it had more credit than just a novelty item. That's what's cool about EFI, the ability to do this. Back to the 7.3 Stroker sound...well at least my injectors will last longer on a single event, but that's another topic for a different day.

-FUBAR


LMAO Here we go again!

[comnrailpwr]

Ya it appears one thing after another with these wacko ecm's.

Spray & Pray

[FUBAR]

Kinda off topic, but on the same subject...PILOT SUCKS! There ya go Chris!

[2007 5.9]

I run a modified pilot timing and mm3 table up to 2600rpms then I "0" them both out after 2600, and I can hold a 3000pw up to 3600.

I would suggest maybe trying something like that and see if your pulse times come back up to your commanded.

~Les

[olboyowl]

les, did u have your tables set to "minimum"? haven't messed with pilot yet and wanted to get as much info as possible before i start. thanks

[2007 5.9]

Yes,

My D0511 "Main Injector Pulse Limiter" is set to minimum.

Thats the limiter we in BETA have been testing with awesome results in keeping pulse times high.

~Les

[icem237]

Been testing with no pilot and I just about have it nailed down. This new limiter has done the trick!!

[FUBAR]

x2!!! ^^^^--this is the buddy I've been referring to to. I can definitely say that my stock components can NOT support the tune now.

[olboyowl]

im gonna try shutting it off after 2600 and see how it works. what are you guys setting your fuel limiter, table selection 2 (E2536)? was set at 156.

[FUBAR]

what are you guys setting your fuel limiter, table selection 2 (E2536)? was set at 156.

Wonder who set that? Someone in Italy maybe?? lol.

And mine's set from 160-200 btw.

[2007 5.9]

Wonder who set that? Someone in Italy maybe?? lol.

And mine's set from 160-200 btw.

Lol..I noticed that as well...mine is set to 150mm3.

~Les

[olboyowl]

thanks guys, that'll give me a good starting point for today. will get back with some results later. just curious, its a new table. were would 156 have come from? i get the whole Italy thing, but i didn't take it from there. thats how it showed up when i opened it up for the first time the other day. again thanks for the all the help.

[LReiff]

Wonder who set that? Someone in Italy maybe?? lol.

And mine's set from 160-200 btw.

Mine is set to 400...might have to cut that back with D0511 :hihi:

[Dmaxink]

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong...but in my logging experience... no matter if im commanding 300mm3, or 200mm3, you are only going to get 145mm3....in some cases you maye get higher 150+mm3 ect..but the max fuel we are asking for is at the bottom right of our Main Injection table. So i have all my limiters set at 145mm3 for when im wanting max fuel... You can demand more, and i do in some of the tables but honestly just for making the tables nice :-)...but i want the new guys to understand, just because you put more than 145mm3 in your limiters does not mean you will get more fuel. Full fueling is at 145, anything above that is making the tables pretty in my experience..

Carry on!

EDIT: By bottom right of our "main injection pulse" table I'm referring to the MPA you are calling for (rather 160 or 180) and 145mm3. Bottom line in fueling is are we getting our commanded WOT uS, if so that is going to be at 145mm3 and going any further will still be only 145mm3. In the LMM we have had some oddball limiters that would kick in, but i have not run into any issues with setting all limiters that i want full fueling at to 145mm3.

[LReiff]

So you're saying that even though I see commanded fuel go as high as 200mm3 it's only going to allow 145mm3 through the injector?

[Dmaxink]

Yep... mm3 is a referencing table for the Main Injection Pulse table..if the top of our main pulse table is 145mm3 and 160mpa with a 3000 microsecond pulse..then even if you see 10,000mm3, you are still only going to get 145mm3. Pretend mm3 is just a referencing table basically.

[LReiff]

Sorry, I misunderstood your previous post. I have the limiters all tweaked! ;)

[FUBAR]

I completely understand Kory. How does the ECM know how much fuel we're flowing..hmmm...maybe a calculation? (rhetorical question). Now that being said, how does the ECM know duration...injector opening time! Hard facts is how it knows. Thanks Kory.

-Andrew

[MQ105]

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong...but in my logging experience... no matter if im commanding 300mm3, or 200mm3, you are only going to get 145mm3....in some cases you maye get higher 150+mm3 ect..but the max fuel we are asking for is at the bottom right of our Main Injection table... You can demand more, and i do in some of the tables but honestly just for making the tables nice :-)...but i want the new guys to understand, just because you put more than 145mm3 in your limiters does not mean you will get more fuel. Full fueling is at 145, anything above that is making the tables pretty in my experience...


That is accurate with stock injectors. If you have larger nozzles, then the actual maximum volume can be higher than commanded. What is important, though, is that the commanded volume is a reference.
Ultimately, I think it may prove to provide some benefit if one was able to accurately modify the volume axis for the exact injectors being used. This would require a flow sheet of the injectors with multiple pressure and volume points.

[olboyowl]

did some tweakin today and like all of you said before...wow! didnt get to log anything, but it fueled hard up to 3400 + rpm and it didnt hesitate gettin to 1400-1450 deg. for egts. not tooo bad of a smoke screen neither. still have some more to mess with, but what a difference. thanks for the info guys and for the info above kory. will get some more info up on wednesday. take it easy

denny

[Dmaxink]

Glad to see these things opening up...the sled pulling vids on youtube are getting exciting now that we have full fuel :-)