Silver Bullet Tuning makes 625hp smoke free.

[2007 5.9]

Here is a graph from a customers truck last night on our DynoJet dyno.

Customers current set up is as follows.

2006 Mega auto
St. Joseph Diesel 50hp nozzles
Air Dog 150
Stock Cp3 with Arson III
Hamilton 181/210 cam with springs
Borg-Warner S363
Left Coast Diesel/ATO built transmission

Customer was previously running a Garrett Stg 3 turbo with a popular box tuner as programming. Customer had complaints of excessive EGT's, smoke, and rattle.
Horsepower best with that setup was a 1600*EGT 575hp.

Customer contacted me about EFI Live tuning, at that time I was still in the beginning stages of tuning and still feeling the process out. Customer (Kevin) decided that he would like to be part of my testing process and was ready to begin.

We started our tuning endevour with his Garrett still on and functioning. I began with making the truck clean and smooth to drive. Once driving characteristics were set up correctly we looked for more SOP power. We were able to squeeze a small amount of SOP power from that set-up, but upon myself getting in the vehicle and driving it. I determined that the poor little Garrett could not safely support the fueling.

Kevin decided to make a turbo swap and shoot for 600hp smoke free. We settled on the BW S363 for its quick spooling and LDP 68mm exhaust wheel and the compressor map flowing enough air to SAFELY support 600hp.

Kevin has had the BW on for approx 1 week and was thrilled with the added power and pulling this turbo presented over the Garrett. EGT's were 1500* but now by 110mph and not the 80mph with the Garrett.

Kevin and I decided that it was time to put it on the rollers and see what we could squeeze from his set-up. Remember the goal when this all started was a "Clean 600hp".

Loaded the truck on the dyno, first pull out of the gate was 602hp. After studying logs I was able to massage another 20hp from the set-up until we had reached the fueling limits of the Cp3. We were able to hold a 3100uS PW but a bump to 3300uS proved to be too much. Once a duration limit had been found I upped the timing 3* to see if we were saturated as well. Truck picked up 4hp with 3* of timing but carried power out slightly better. Lastly I tried to add some pressure (mind you I work only within stock pressure unless deemed necessary) and unfortunatly like with adding more duration, adding pressure proved to be a loss as well. I was commanding 180Mpa at 2400rpm@140mm3 and the pump was only able to achieve 163Mpa.

So after 8 or so runs we went from a 602 clean tune to a 625hp clean tune that was maximizing every aspect of the air/fueling system. Smoke at WOT is a light gray haze.

Blue line is beginning timing
Green is 3* added.

You can see from 105mph to 115mph that the 3* made the power hold on longer but did nothing for peak power.

12149

[AdamRRT]

I've never seen mph used as a beneficial tuning axis. With RPM we know where to adjust what. Is there a reason you used mph? I'd love to know some aspect I'm missing to help my tune half this well. Great job man!

[2007 5.9]

Yes..I'm not a fan of no RPM, but out optical sensor isint working at the moment. So I log VVS and RPM in the scantool and compare it to the MPH logged on the dyno. I can compare mph in the scantool and the dyno, look at rpm at that speed and make adjustments that way.

[AdamRRT]

Darn. I was hoping I had found some new way that I'd been missing to view the data.

[FUBAR]

Great job Les! I guess this is what I was standing-by for...

[2007 5.9]

Great job Les! I guess this is what I was standing-by for...

Was I supposed to send you something??? Sorry if I was....

[mstordahl]

Nice! Bet that's afun ride on the street, especially when you don't have to cloud out every intersection anymore!

[2007 5.9]

Customer does like blowing the tires off first and second gear and ONLY have tire smoke behind him!!!

[AdamRRT]

Question: will it still fuel hard enough down low that he can stop people from tailgating?
Yes, that's in the plan for my tune. :D

[2007 5.9]

Question: will it still fuel hard enough down low that he can stop people from tailgating?
Yes, that's in the plan for my tune. :D

Nope...smoke free was his goal. That's smoke free all the time.

[Dmaxink]

Nice job again Les, oh yeah guys...he has owned the software less than a year and is making this stuff happen... who says you have to own it for years and years to learn how it works? All it takes is time, patience, some dedication, and the "know how" of how the engine works. Great job Les.

[LReiff]

Nice job!

[AdamRRT]

who says you have to own it for years and years to learn how it works?Good question. Does someone really say that? I'd love to see someone make that comment so I could hammer them. I've never heard anybody make such a claim. Honestly, I know some real idiots who tune vehicles within a few hours of me in any direction, so it gives me a lot of hope to get my grasp of it settled in quickly. Of course those are gassers, where you add 10hp on a stock vehicle and it's a success. Not like these beasts.

[Dmaxink]

gasser is a whole different world...that really does take some time... Shawn's auto ve tutorial is a BEAST and you can really get a gasser going in the right direction quick with it..but unlike a diesel...the gassers have much less tolerance to a "oops that was the wrong calibration" lol

[2007 5.9]

Nice job again Les, oh yeah guys...he has owned the software less than a year and is making this stuff happen... who says you have to own it for years and years to learn how it works? All it takes is time, patience, some dedication, and the "know how" of how the engine works. Great job Les.

Thanks for the kind word Kory!!

[AdamRRT]

gasser is a whole different world...that really does take some time... Shawn's auto ve tutorial is a BEAST and you can really get a gasser going in the right direction quick with it..but unlike a diesel...the gassers have much less tolerance to a "oops that was the wrong calibration" lolYeah I agree it's different due to tolerances. My buddy Bluecat wrote some kind of VE tuning program that's now the standard for the VE portion of tuning big cube LSx motors. It's kind of like the timing spreadsheets in that it's just an accompaniment. I forget what it was called now. I never had bigger cubes than 408.

And Les is a beast that's for sure! Great job Les.

[2006Cummins]

Great work! That is really where I would like to be. With my old electronics setup I made 621hp, but was very smoky. I have been working on making a tune that is fun to drive, makes good power, but also doesn't smoke at all. It's better than it was now that I have efilive, but far from what I am shooting for. I know it's a vague question, but would you be able to offer any tips on how to do this? I have tried more or less timing, pressure, pulse-with, etc., but haven't found the happy medium. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

[someguy]

Is the new turbo and tune suited to towing duty ? If so, what sort of power could one expect at "safe all day" EGTs ?

I *love* reading these EFI success stories. Thanks for sharing.

[2007 5.9]

Is the new turbo and tune suited to towing duty ? If so, what sort of power could one expect at "safe all day" EGTs ?

I *love* reading these EFI success stories. Thanks for sharing.

Customer has a toy hauler that has not been towed with yet...but I dont forsee any EGT issues.

[someguy]

Meaning he could use over 600 HP continuously, all day and not have any EGT issues, even at WOT ?

I don't understand this then.


Kevin has had the BW on for approx 1 week and was thrilled with the added power and pulling this turbo presented over the Garrett. EGT's were 1500* but now by 110mph and not the 80mph with the Garrett.

If you can get it hot (1500F) racing to 110 MPH, why wouldnt it get hot towing ?

[AdamRRT]

Meaning he could use over 600 HP continuously, all day and not have any EGT issues, even at WOT ?

I don't understand this then.



If you can get it hot (1500F) racing to 110 MPH, why wouldnt it get hot towing ?600hp is at WOT. There's absolutely no reason he'd be running at WOT all day long. That's not realistic. Remember we can change how it fuels at each point of the pedal.

[2007 5.9]

As explained above...NOBODY tows at WOT. I built the tune to make power on the street...if it needs tweaking to keep the EGT's under control...then so be it.

His turbo, injector and tuning choice will allow his to tow all day with a truck that makes over 600hp all day long. Its a simple fueling adjustment (if needed) to pull fuel back when under HEAVY load to bring the temps down (IF THEY ARE HIGH).

[someguy]

He may not be at WOT all day long, but give him a 14,000 pound trailer and an 8% grade and he needs 400 HP to maintain 60 MPH. Throw in a headwind and you are at 450 HP. Can it run there without EGT issues ?

Thanks !

BTW: I think what you are doing is awesome and the fact you can get so much power while being smokeless is double awesome. Great work and thanks for sharing.

[2007 5.9]

He may not be at WOT all day long, but give him a 14,000 pound trailer and an 8% grade and he needs 400 HP to maintain 60 MPH. Throw in a headwind and you are at 450 HP. Can it run there without EGT issues ?

Yes...the turbo map is favorable to towing heavy and keeping temps cool. My interpretation of cool is 1250-1300*@40psi

Alot of how something tows is on the drivers seat....foot control, gear control etc...I can tow 14,000 with my 66mm if I want, I'd just need to adapt my driving style to be conducive to what I am doing.

[DoghouseDiesel]

Les,

If I hitch up 8 regular reindeer and one with a rednose and put one fat bastard in a sleigh going over the Himalayas with ALL THE TOYS IN THE WORLD, which reindeer would run out of breath first?

Now, lets make it 10 reindeer and lets go a little faster, now which reindeer runs out of breath first?

[someguy]

Yes...the turbo map is favorable to towing heavy and keeping temps cool. My interpretation of cool is 1250-1300*@40psi

Do you use the turbo map or do you use boost as a limiter ? Or both ?

What kind of boost can you get with the VGT (with decent timing) at 1700 RPM ?

I cannot wait to start tuning my 6.7 !

Thanks !

[2007 5.9]

Les,

If I hitch up 8 regular reindeer and one with a rednose and put one fat bastard in a sleigh going over the Himalayas with ALL THE TOYS IN THE WORLD, which reindeer would run out of breath first?

Now, lets make it 10 reindeer and lets go a little faster, now which reindeer runs out of breath first?

Unfortunatly here in California we are limited to 8 regular raindeer and one red nosed one.

Adding another would make it much easier but smog dictates and Highway Patrol says otherwise

[2007 5.9]

Do you use the turbo map or do you use boost as a limiter ? Or both ?

What kind of boost can you get with the VGT (with decent timing) at 1700 RPM ?

I cannot wait to start tuning my 6.7 !

Thanks !

Both...I build my setups to utilize the sweet spot of the turbo map for DD and towing and the right side for peak hp goals.

[someguy]

I didn't get the reindeer analogy. Just saying.

[2007 5.9]

I didn't get the reindeer analogy. Just saying.

I understood it as rich was saying that twins are the best of both worlds. Here in Ca, smog laws won't allow for twins, so we need to do our best with a single turbo.

[someguy]

How many crank degees is 3000 uSec and what is the limit if you have enough CP3 ?

How much fuel can you deliver (per stroke) with a stock fuel system ?

Thanks

[DODGE74]

Good luck with this question, I also asked this question on another forum with no responces.


Trust me, I would like to know myself. I know where some of the box tuners stop but I would still like to know if there is a limit.

[2007 5.9]

How many crank degees is 3000 uSec and what is the limit if you have enough CP3 ?

How much fuel can you deliver (per stroke) with a stock fuel system ?

Thanks

3000uS at what rpm?? Rpm determines CAD.

I've ran as high as 3300uS but that's it.

Stock usually fuel 125-140mm3 in my findings.

Our puller maxes at 160mm3 at 903hp

[DODGE74]

3000uS at what rpm?? Rpm determines CAD.

I've ran as high as 3300uS but that's it.

Stock usually fuel 125-140mm3 in my findings.

Our puller maxes at 160mm3 at 903hp

Thanks Les,

this makes me feel more comfortable where I'm at but what do you mean CAD?

[2007 5.9]

Thanks Les,

this makes me feel more comfortable where I'm at but what do you mean CAD?

CAD=Crank Angle Degrees

[AdamRRT]

But you're changing the value of mm3. Easier to just say it can maintain x pressure at z duration since my 120mm3 is different from your 120mm3. Make sense? Pressure and duration don't change their values. 1 MPa and 1uS are always that. But we change what 1mm3 is referring to.

Not that I know the answer. I just know that mm3 is a reference not a measurement, in our usage.

That is, unless you're saying that's with bone stock pressure and duration tables.

[olboyowl]

i run just shy of 3100us at 140mm3 with a very slight haze and the needle is just hitting 1500* for egts. just trying to help by throwin some more #'s out there.

[2007 5.9]

This particular truck makes 625hp on a 3100uS at 160Mpa with 25* timing and can kiss 1500* around 110mph.

[olboyowl]

wonder who aided me in that set up... thanks again les. im no where near that hp though. however, i did pull a new 6.7 scorpion earlier today pretty bad. had to let off to stay out of his rear bumper. still had the dealer papers on the window. guy waved/thumbs up when he got off the exit. at least now i can say im probably over 400hp.

[DODGE74]

This particular truck makes 625hp on a 3100uS at 160Mpa with 25* timing and can kiss 1500* around 110mph.

Les, would you care to tell us the mods that are done to this truck?

[2007 5.9]

Look at my first post in this thread...specs on truck

[DODGE74]

Ok, thanks. I didnt know that was the truck you were talking about.