turbo tuning?

[mstordahl]

Since I only have a stock turbo now, I haven't had to worry about spool up. I am considering a 64 or 66 turbo and a set of 90hp injectors, but I do tow with this truck and need to keep good low rpm spool and power. Ultimately I am chasing the 650hp area, so I need some good airflow.

What I am wondering is from those that have tuned a larger single with EFI, how do they spool? Can you tow with them and keep some low end power? I know that a larger single is not an ideal towing turbo, but I figured with how we can control timing and duration so well that it is doable?

Thanks!

[2007 5.9]

Timing is KEY for spooling...keep it low until boost comes up then bring it in to add power.

I'm running a 66mm and 90hp injectors...and I'd have no problem towing 10k.

[mstordahl]

So when do you start to get decent boost, like 1600 rpm?

[2007 5.9]

With proper throttle control I can have 10psi by 16-1800 and full 50psi by 2100

[FUBAR]

Timing is KEY for spooling...keep it low until boost comes up then bring it in to add power.

I'm running a 66mm and 90hp injectors...and I'd have no problem towing 10k.

Something I want to try to point out here. Les's setup is less than ideal for towing heavy on a hot tune..well, that WAS the case with previous box tunes. You had to reflash the truck with a different, "tamer" tune on the box tune. A lot of people think this is still the case with EFILive and are holding off using EFILive till the Switchable Tuning comes out. I am here to say, from a experienced user's standpoint of switches with Duramaxes, it is not needed. Handy? Sure. It has it's place. BUT YOU can have your cake and eat it too!! Provided you know what your doing, it IS possible hit the track and then the fields to tow your round bales of hay around without "de-tuning."

Same goes for if starts to sprinkle a little rain. You don't have to have a heart attack that your truck's gonna go careening sideways off the road because of the hot box tune you're running to support your higher hp truck. EFILive makes it possible to tune all that garbage out IF you know what you're doing or if you let one of the finer tuner's on here handle it for you and develop a good repore with them and learn.

-Andrew

[2007 5.9]

Something I want to try to point out here. Les's setup is less than ideal for towing heavy on a hot tune..well, that WAS the case with previous box tunes. You had to reflash the truck with a different, "tamer" tune on the box tune. A lot of people think this is still the case with EFILive and are holding off using EFILive till the Switchable Tuning comes out. I am here to say, from a experienced user's standpoint of switches with Duramaxes, it is not needed. Handy? Sure. It has it's place. BUT YOU can have your cake and eat it too!! Provided you know what your doing, it IS possible hit the track and then the fields to tow your round bales of hay around without "de-tuning."

Same goes for if starts to sprinkle a little rain. You don't have to have a heart attack that your truck's gonna go careening sideways off the road because of the hot box tune you're running to support your higher hp truck. EFILive makes it possible to tune all that garbage out IF you know what you're doing or if you let one of the finer tuner's on here handle it for you and develop a good repore with them and learn.

-Andrew

Well said Andrew!!!

[AdamRRT]

So Les, just cause I'm also just learning where optimal timing can be, I love this topic.
YES I've noticed that a stock timing table comes in a couple degrees ATDC in the low end. When you say keep timing low, can you give a rough idea of where you like that timing? Like say for towing we'd do what, 80-100mm3, 750-2000RPM, and 50% TP%? Just as rough numbers. You changing that range would be even better so I know what you mean. I'm really trying to find the best area. I KNOW when I took my tune from 5* BTDC and moved it to 0-1* BTDC, it spooled faster from just that little bit.

And if I'm not mistaken, if we added a little timing down low, to just before we start losing power (found by sweet spotting on the dyno of course), we'd pick up a small bit of fuel economy due to the more complete burn, but we'd also lose some power cause of the slower spool. Am I even right on this as I understand diesel injection timing?

FUBAR - I agree. It's so nice to know we can have economy from 0-33% TP%, towing from 34-85% TP%, and performance from 86-100% TP%. Theoretically.

[Dmaxink]

I actually enjoy driving the hopped up 5.9s in my area now :-)...before it was strictly..."ehh lets take my truck". lol

[mstordahl]

So with the timing control, there should be no reason that I couldnt tow in the mountains with a 64? Sounds pretty cool. Guess that I will just have to buck up and buy the stuff, try it and report back!

[2007 5.9]

Given a decent tune and a polite right foot, towing should be easy

[DoghouseDiesel]

So with the timing control, there should be no reason that I couldnt tow in the mountains with a 64? Sounds pretty cool. Guess that I will just have to buck up and buy the stuff, try it and report back!

Well, look at it like this, my twins are 64 over 80 and I don't change a thing from daily driving to towing to track except the tires.

With my little 37 lpm injectors and normal driving, I'm making 6 - 8 psi of boost at 1600 rpm's.

Hook any of the trailers up and boost is instant. It likes having the extra load on the motor vs unloaded. Towing the flat bed (3700 lbs) with another truck (6800 lbs) on it, cruising at 80 mph and I'll be sitting at 14 - 16 psi and 850*.

[mstordahl]

Perfect info and responses, thanks guys!

Rich, that turbo setup is exactly where I am headed eventually, just not sure what 64 yet and if I will pair it with a 75 or an 80. Regardless, that makes me happy to hear. Do you mind saying what the specs are on your 64?

Anybody know of a good place to purchase a 64 sized turbo, that could also point me in the right direction for proper sizing?

[DoghouseDiesel]

Don't just arbitrarily pick a turbo size. Turbo's are selected based on power requirements and engine size.

How much power do you want?

THAT is what determines the turbo you select.

Mine is a 64/71/14. Just an off-the shelf BorgWarner, nothing sexy. No super-duper renamed job, just an S300 over an S400 with a little bit of bent and welded pipe between them.

[mstordahl]

Is your 64 wastegated? I would like to be comfortably in the 650 are with a single, and then be able to twin it for more when I need it.

[DoghouseDiesel]

Yes, my 64 is gated.

650 is a little too much for a 64. It'll do it, but moving that much air is outside of its efficiency map. You really want a 66 for that number.

A 64 by itself is COMFORTABLE in the 525 - 575 range, depending on the turbine size.

Can you make more? Sure. Is it in the compressors efficiency map? No.

Lots of guys will just pick a turbo. There's a lot more to making it streetable and usable than just slapping a turbo on. Most guys go too big with either the injectors or the turbo for the power they want, but in this case, if 650 is your goal, you either need to look at a 66 and 90's or a small set of twins.

My cutoff for daily drivers is usually 600 hp. That's normally where I step away from singles and go to twins to mintain the "everyday" usability of the truck.

But, its really just a matter of how fast you want tjmhe turbo to respond. And a good little post event in there and you'll spool a 66 with no problem.

[olboyowl]

rich, what about a 64 with a billet wheel. dont they flow a little more then an off the shelf wheel? im lookin at doin the same thing as tinman and goin with a single billet 64 and 120's at first and bump up to twins down the road. was also lookin to be in the 600hp area with the single. can a 66 be efficiently used in a twin setup if you start it out as a single? havnt looked in to any of this yet. still a couple of years out.

[AdamRRT]

Depends upon the wheel design more than straight up billet vs cast.

[DoghouseDiesel]

Denny, billet vs cast is just how the wheel is made...one is machined out of a chunk of material, the other is....well, cast. All you get there is strength. Once vs the other, both being the same material, you'd want the billet wheel.

The wheel design has a lot more to do with air flow. Don't be confused by some of the advertising hype. There are SOME custom wheels out there. Then there are some that are just BorgWarner or Garrett turbo's that are rebranded with a super cool name, but are still just off the shelf BW or Garrett turbo's

You can use a 66 in a twin setup, sure, but again, it's all in how much power you want to make. I'd pair a 66 with an 83 or an 88. 62's work well with 74's and 80's, 64's work well with 80's and 83's.

Again....you don't just arbitrarily pick turbos and injectors. You ESTABLISH A GOAL and you build from there. Otherwise you just throw parts together and you end up with.....something.

That's why when someone says, "I need this!" My first questions are, 1 - How much power do you want to make?, 2 - How fast do you want to go?, 3 - What do you use the truck for EVERYDAY?

If the parts don't fit the goal, you'll just be buying parts again.

Do it right, do it once.

[olboyowl]

thanks for the breakdown. u should know by now that i'll be comin your way when im ready for this stuff. my reasoning for the 120's is for the twins down the road. i figured get them bigger with the first set up and not have to change them down the road. does that make sense? plus with efi live capabilities, we can lower pulse width and not have it run as hot as as it would with a box tuner.

[DoghouseDiesel]

Again, don't just arbitrarily pick injectors.

What are the HP goals?

GOALS!.....GOALS!.....GOALS!

Establish what you WANT the truck to do, FIRST. THEN put the parts list togther.

It's easier to tune the right combination of parts than it is the wrong combination.

[427lightning]

And a good little post event in there and you'll spool a 66 with no problem.

Rich, can you elaborate on this a little bit? I have a set of small twins now with stock sticks (they will get upgraded soon, but not yet). It spools quick, but I've read that adding a post event will help spool them quicker. For a post event, would it be a good thing to have it cut out at say, 1500 rpms or something close to help get them moving, or am I way off base here? Thanks in advance.

[DoghouseDiesel]

A post event really shouldn't be needed with what you have, but....where you cut the post is going to depend on where your setup starts to light up.

Mine start to make usable boost by 1400 RPM's, so anything beyond that would be pointless.

Now, if you had a big single that didn't like to spool until like 1800 RPM's, then yu could carry that post event a little farther out to add some heat to get it going.

That's all you're trying to do is toss a little more heat to the turbo to get it going quickly.