e38 large cam nightmare.

[Mike@sic]

hey guys,
obviously im new here but ive been reading for a long time now.
I have a 2010 camaro in the shop with a large cam and some head/ manifold work done. Ive been trying to use swingtan's guide to tune this thing but its not working at all. idle is extremely lean and the car will barely run. im ready to smash this e38 into pieces. Ive been trying to use this tutorial but nothing seems to be working the car is all around way to lean. can someone give me some advice on where to start? Im really not sure on what im doing wrong. any help is appreciated.

[Taz]

Hello Mike,

I take it you are attempting the VVE tuning process per Swingtan's tutorial ? Post your tune when you get a chance ... easy to miss a step in setting up the tune.

Getting late here ... will check back tomorrow.


Regards,
Taz

[swingtan]

Yes, Post tune and a decent log. Also list the mods to the car.

Remember that with with big overlap cams, a WB will read lean in the exhaust due to unconsumed oxygen. Running a higher spark advance on idle helps a little with this. Also, with large changes in the mechanics, you may need to "brute force" the VVE to get things going. Applying a BEN factor may not change enough cells at once to make a measurable difference.

Simon.

[Mike@sic]

hey guys, thanks for the quick responses. the car has a ported intake and ported heads, decent size blower cam, cai, and long tube headers. Im getting frustrated with this car. Possibly i missed a step in setting it up, Ive tried it a few times with no luck and the car going into reduced power mode a few times. ill try running a higher spark advance to get it to idle better. i just ordered a cable from taq for my LM-2 so i will post a log in a bit. It seems like no matter what changes i make it has no effect. im just lost here and want to get this thing done already.

[slows10]

Swingtan will probably want to know the specs of the cam.

[slows10]

May not be much overlap if it is a dedicated blower cam. Is the car going to see boost in the future?

[swingtan]

Post the log as it is now, I may be able to guestimate some settings that will help.

Sorry, I meant "tune"..... :p

[Mike@sic]

12173
attached

[Mike@sic]

my mistake, that was a tune i used just to get the ar started. thi is the tune set up to try the vve dial in.

[swingtan]

Also a log of the idle? It would help to see what the engine is doing on idle.

Simon.

Also, is there a hole in the TB blade?

[Mike@sic]

no hole in the blade, but it is a ported throttle body.
I will try and get a log today, what pids would you like me to log.

[Jester]

What are your IAT's when idling as B1213 is set at 1.00 for the entire table meaning you are getting no correction as the IAT goes up, depending on your ambient of course. The tune appears to be in closed loop, are you trying to tune in closed loop? What are the exact specs of the cam? B1821 is commanding 750rpm but B1847 & B1848 are set at 525rpm. Have you logged at all yet if so post it up.

[Mike@sic]

What are your IAT's when idling as B1213 is set at 1.00 for the entire table meaning you are getting no correction as the IAT goes up, depending on your ambient of course. The tune appears to be in closed loop, are you trying to tune in closed loop? What are the exact specs of the cam? B1821 is commanding 750rpm but B1847 & B1848 are set at 525rpm. Have you logged at all yet if so post it up.

actually trying to log now, and yea i just realised that in B1821 & B1848. Im going to change those. the main problem im having is it just being lean all around. What i was trying to do was to set it up to dial the vve in as swingtan's tutorial said, but the car was way to lean and no matter what i did nothing would change. so i was just trying to get it safe so i can start making adjustments. what pids would you recomend i log and where should i start making adjustments. Just trying to get a handle on this, im pretty new to all of this and this e38 is giving me a hard time.
thanks for your help guys this thing is driving me nuts.

[Mike@sic]

another problem ive been having is codes P0068 and P0102 being thrown. ive been reading up on this, but the tables that would need to be increased seem to be different on the e38 so im not sure what to do here. the car keeps going into reduced power mode because of this. this is just getting more and more frustrating.
thanks again guys
-mike

[Mike@sic]

i attched a log of it idling. my wideband was reading anywhere from 10.9 - 11.3 at idle.

[Jester]

With regards to the codes being thrown, you need P0102 to be thrown but no mil. Read page 4 of Swing's guide C6002 set P0101, P0102 & P0103 to "No Mil".

[swingtan]

Hang on.... In post #1 you said it was really lean on idle, now you say the WB is reading about 11:1 ?

I don't see any WB data in the log and E38.INLTVLVTMP_DMA is missing. Ensure the Inlet Valve Temp is being logged, as it's need for all fueling corrections.

Other than that, the base idle spark is probably too low, try 18' as a start. Also the idle correction spark tables are probably set up to correct too slow, so the idle speed probably drops and nearly stalls, then pics up and over revvs. FInally, if it's a big cam, I'd start working on the idle at 850-900 RPM. Then once you've got it set at the faster speed, I'd start dropping the RPM to maybe 750-800 and readjust if needed.

Hang on.... Why is your IBPW up at 409mS on idle? I'd expect it to be around 2.0-2.5mS for a big cam. Either you have major fuel pressure issues or something is drastically wrong in the ECM. What else has been done to this car?

Simon.

[Mike@sic]

Hang on.... In post #1 you said it was really lean on idle, now you say the WB is reading about 11:1 ?

I don't see any WB data in the log and E38.INLTVLVTMP_DMA is missing. Ensure the Inlet Valve Temp is being logged, as it's need for all fueling corrections.

Other than that, the base idle spark is probably too low, try 18' as a start. Also the idle correction spark tables are probably set up to correct too slow, so the idle speed probably drops and nearly stalls, then pics up and over revvs. FInally, if it's a big cam, I'd start working on the idle at 850-900 RPM. Then once you've got it set at the faster speed, I'd start dropping the RPM to maybe 750-800 and readjust if needed.

Hang on.... Why is your IBPW up at 409mS on idle? I'd expect it to be around 2.0-2.5mS for a big cam. Either you have major fuel pressure issues or something is drastically wrong in the ECM. What else has been done to this car?

Simon.

sorry i had some other projects in the shop taking up my time so i havent been messing with the camaro.
yes it was very lean at idle, i realized that when i flashed the car last the tune i used, i had disabled the LTFT's and had a fairly rich commanded AFR with no other changes to the tune. i did this just to get the car running and it idled decent it just got very lean once i touched the throttle. im also not sure why the IBPW is so high i havent touched anything else really on the tune. the car has long tubes, cai, blower cam, 1.8 rockers, ported manifold / heads. im having a really hard time with this and still cant get the vve dial in to work properly, i was also confused on exactly what to log to get the info i would need to adjust the vve correctly. i have a basic idea. im going to post a new log with E38.INLTVLVTMP_DMA and some WB readings. hopefully i can get this thing running safely so i can bring it out to our track rental this week.
thanks for being patient with me man im still learning.
-mike
**attached the log

[Mike@sic]

well, ive been trying to figure this out on my own and i think im headed in the right direction. here are two logs i did today. one of the main problems im having is when i apply my logged data to the vve table, smoothng out the spikes is very difficult. maybe i just need to log more and longer? i can get the car to idle where i want it but once i get to 3k rpm's and above its extreemly lean. is there any way i can roughly adjust it to make it safe for now? for example add 20% to the cells above that or is there a better way to do this.
hopefully i make some progress tomorrow, ill try and post some better logs and the tune as well. sorry guys im still learning and this is a lot for me right now, thank you for your time.