T43 TCC Desired Slip and Adaptive Pressure

[Longslyde]

Ok. I know I'm beating a dead horse and I'm not looking to get flamed on here....but, Since we do not have the required tables needed to set TCC desired slip to 0 in the T43, Has anyone figured a work around to get an aftermarket converter to stop pulsating? I've tried upping the TCC pressure ramps and it helps, but it still is pulsating. I've spent huge dollars on this trans and coverter setup and I don't want to see it get smoked. I know it just a matter of time. I've read the other thread about t43 development and it doesn't look promising at this point. :unsure:

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

[Rhino79]

Have someone with hptuners set the pwm and flash it. Unfortunately, that's all you can do. Or disable lockup all together which would suck but it'd be a safe way to prevent premature lockup damage until you can get it tuned.

[Longslyde]

Thanks for the info Rhino :) ... That about what I expected. I ordered the "other" tuner yesterday. My transmission won't wait on hopes of getting better T43 support. Take care!

[whypave]

My experience is that if you use EFI live v8 to do a full reflash of the transmission then the Desired slip table gets zeroed out. I went into HP Tuners and the table was all 0s. So you may be able to get around the issue with a full reflash but keep your same tune

[Longslyde]

Thanks for the info. I just adjusted it with HP and got rid of the constant 100-150 rpm surge prob. But I still get a slight 100rpm slip whenever I move the throttle slightly. it will slip about 100 rpm while the pedal is being moved then lock when held steady. Anybody else have this issue and sorted it out? I would like it to hold on light acceleration.

Also, when the converter goes into lock up, it takes a long ramp time to lock. Like 2-3 seconds. I'm sure due to it being a stall converter. I've set TCC ramp tables to max hoping that would help but no joy. :wallbash: I've tested the converter's holding power by manually locking it in DVT and it holds great so it's definitely a tuning issue? Any idea what tables would help with quicker lockups? Thanks in advance guys!

[Rhino79]

Set the pwm to like 98-99% on the min max pwm and it should lock fully. It will either be locked or unlocked. Also when you do this you'll need to bump the ramps back down some. I usually bump the ramps up some bit pwm should be 98 min 99 max to allow full lock.

[Longslyde]

What tables are you reffering to for PWM? I gotta be overlooking them if they are shown. Thanks Rhino!

[Tre-Cool]

i have a circle'd stage 3 3600 converter. had it for over 2 years, i have no problems locking it at wot and only see less than 5rpm in slip.

my tables are stock. i've found that increasing the tcc lock pressure rates just results in harder shifts between gear changes when the converter is locked.

more noticable at low rpm and cruise

[Longslyde]

Thanks Tre, but I do not want the converter to lock at all at WOT. I also do not have it set to stay locked on shift.It will come out of lock (slip about 100-150 rpm) on the slightest increase of the throttle pedal, then lock when that movement stops. Quite annoying really. I know it's not good for the converter in the long run, and just makes more heat. Being this is a 4WD crew cab truck, I do not want this truck to lock at wot. I just need to set the pwm in this 6l80e but i do not see the table for that. I gotta be overlooking it.

[Rhino79]

They should be in HP.....min and max slip % pulse width modulation

[Longslyde]

I am posting this for info that will come in handy as soon as the tables get released for EFI live. Since I have both tuners, I felt it was proper to share this info with people that need keep their aftermarket converters alive. To do this procedure, we are going to need the following tables at a minimum:

TCC Pressure Regulator Offset
TCC Pressure Regulator Gain
TCC Adapt Min
TCC Adapt Max

Video of how it works:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/Longslyde/th_2012-01-29_15-49-12_71.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/Longslyde/?action=view&current=2012-01-29_15-49-12_71.mp4)


This is a copy of a post I made:

Anyone with an aftermarket converter must read on... I am now 100% confident my converter will not fail due to slippage now.
I've been fighting with the fact that my converter would go in and out of lockup under even slight throttle. It would lock then under power would slip 150-200 rpm. I knew this was not going to be good in the long run. Through many logs and trial and error, I have found the solution.
I did not disable TCC adapt. Make it work for you. I set the minimum to 0psi and max to +100psi. Set TCC Regulator Offset to the value that you want to be the "minimum" Line pressure, then set TCC Regulator gain to "1.0". In my case, I set the offset to 90psi. I might get by with lower PSI but this is what I chose to run with at this time. It will now lock instantly with no ramp time. that was a problem I had also. It would just Sliiiiiide into lock. In my logs, when in lockup, it will not drop below 90psi and under movement of the throttle, and it will take the pressure up to 109.9psi (max) then back down as needed but not lower than the offset setting. 0 slip on the converter the whole time.
This has NOT been tested with WOT TCC apply enabled. I personally do not believe in locking the converter on wide open throttle, especially with a supercharger. Just my 2 cents, not looking to get flamed on that comment.
For those wondering, taking the regulator gain to 0 will just make the line pressure maxed out constantly. Taking it to "8" will keep if from locking at all. The higher the number in this area, the lower the TCC line pressure will go. I felt constant max pressure was not needed for my application, but feel free to do what you wish.
I hope this helps people out there who have the same problem I had. I had been searching for this answer for months. Take care guys!

[Patrick G]

These tables cannot be that hard to add. Come on Ross and Paul, you guys are losing market share and future petrol customers to HP Tuners. These people may never come back. Please make these TCC slip tables priority 1. Even if it just means sending a new cal file to hold us over.

[GMPX]

These tables cannot be that hard to add. Come on Ross and Paul, you guys are losing market share and future petrol customers to HP Tuners. These people may never come back. Please make these TCC slip tables priority 1. Even if it just means sending a new cal file to hold us over.
Patrick, 'losing market share' is an interesting concept on a 6 year old TCM, sorry, but that segment probably reached saturation years ago as far as workshops go. It just doesn't seem to work like that anyway, we hear from many people fed up with HPT's support level for the E38 & E67, lack of VVE, waiting months on end for the '2 bar' OS's to appear (which have issues anyway), fed up with the cumbersome VIN licensing issues for all the vehicles covered by those ECM's. I won't go on, but the point is they just put up with it because they are locked in and are reluctant to change. Have you been following THIS (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?12079-6L80-TM-removal/page8) thread BTW?
I am not suggesting that because the T43 is a six year old controller we have walked away from it, what I am trying to say is that EFILive has to make decisions on where it assigns it's R&D time. We are never going to keep every customer happy unless we employ a team of sweat shop engineers to work 24hrs a day to keep churning this stuff out at the rate everyone would like, as if we were GM.
The thread I linked to above clearly shows we didn't give up on the T43 shifting issues, in fact we approached it from a different way of thinking. Rather than throw at you 100 TCM tables with things that nobody really understands, the whole transmission can be 'fixed' with some small tweaks in the ECM. I know this doesn't apply to the slip tables you've asked about, I'm just pointing out that the 'we need more tables' approach is not always the case just because other tuning companies may have taken that path.
To finish off, NOTHING is easy on the T43, nothing! We've had the TCC slip tables on the to do list for a while.

[Longslyde]

I, as well as many others, are totally appreciative of what efilive does offer. I think it's good that people are so passionate on efilive getting support for one item or the other. In this case the T43. This means people want what they think is the best tuner equipment to be better. After all, no one would bother to post if they didn't care right? Kudos to EFILive!
I know this T43 thing is a pain in the a** for you guys and I'm happy that you guys are not giving up on it. I think there is going to be a boom on this controller though in the near future. One thing I get from customers around this area is they do not want to touch their transmission or engine for that matter until warranty has run out. That 5yr/100K miles for most people. That narrows the customer base greatly right now but it will continue to grow from this point on. Not to mention the fact that only EFI live can tune the t43 separately from the ecm so the street rod market can work with these transmissions even if they retro another controller for the engine. I'm already getting people asking to do these swaps since there is finally some used stuff out there to mod.
I bet the Cummins diesel market continues to grow after 5 years too after they come out of warranty. I know there's a bunch of guys like myself that will go into a newer vehicle with warranty on it and deal with whatever circumstances arise from that. But there are many guys who spent $45K-$60K on their truck that aren't going to touch it either. It's the used truck buyers that will probably end up being the ones to tune it 3-5years from now. So just because a particular product isn't current, doesn't mean it's not going to be current for the tuning market.
Thanks again for all you guys do. Vehicles are my passion and your product makes it all the more enjoyable!

[minytrker]

These tables cannot be that hard to add. Come on Ross and Paul, you guys are losing market share and future petrol customers to HP Tuners. These people may never come back. Please make these TCC slip tables priority 1. Even if it just means sending a new cal file to hold us over.

I have been asking for the same thing. It may be a 6 year controller to EFI but I tune more of them than any other trans controller. It may be 6 years old BUT more people are tuning these than a 2012/2013 vehicle. Your always going to be behind times on what most shops tune the most of. I dont think its fair that we spent thousands of dollars on a stream but since its older cant get the support we need. I already know I will tune more 2011's than 2012's in the next few months. Its hard to convince someone with a 2006-2012 vehicle to buy EFI Live and then tell them they also need HPT if the plan on an aftermarket converter in.
EFI Live may hear people complaining about HPT but guess what, that means they already bought HPT. Both software's have there pro's and con's but HPT seems to do better at marketing and selling in my opinion. I havent ever heard HPT tell anyone go buy EFI Live to change something since we wont support it.
I need a new V2 in order to tune dodges, I am still on the fence about spending any more money with EFI. I am not the only one in the same boat.
I know they see dollar signs with dodge but dont forget about the dollars the gas guys already spend.

[slowhawk]

I agree with Patrick and it's known. This is an old controller but it's still a big market over here and we have little control to make these right. A ton of people are adding superchargers and torque converters and while we have great control on the motor the tranny tune is pretty much ,crap.

I know I've sent files that were modded somewhere else to fully lock the converter and that Jesse has given files to improve these transmissions. We need full converter lock/slip control, the 11's TM control and the 12's completely.

Not blaming anyone at EFIlive, just voicing the fustration on this side. I want to produce the best tunes for our customers and right now the tranny tunes are not as good as they can be.

[Redline Motorsports]

I agree with Patrick and it's known. This is an old controller but it's still a big market over here and we have little control to make these right. A ton of people are adding superchargers and torque converters and while we have great control on the motor the tranny tune is pretty much ,crap.

I know I've sent files that were modded somewhere else to fully lock the converter and that Jesse has given files to improve these transmissions. We need full converter lock/slip control, the 11's TM control and the 12's completely.

Not blaming anyone at EFIlive, just voicing the fustration on this side. I want to produce the best tunes for our customers and right now the tranny tunes are not as good as they can be.

x2.......

[GMPX]

Jesse has given files to improve these transmissions.
Not true, it hasn't happened.


Not blaming anyone at EFIlive, just voicing the fustration on this side. I want to produce the best tunes for our customers and right now the tranny tunes are not as good as they can be.
Well, I'm not trying to avert blame away from us, there's just one of me though, doesn't matter what controller I work on someone isn't going to be happy, just how it is.
I would certainly ask that you try the new tables in RC10 for the ECM torque modelling. Funny thing, before RC10 was released I sent the new .calz files with the torque models off to a few people (a number of the vocal ones) and haven't heard a peep back, kinda leaves me scratching my head. Only a few people bothered posting how much better things were since with the trans since playing with them.

[Patrick G]

Not true, it hasn't happened.


Well, I'm not trying to avert blame away from us, there's just one of me though, doesn't matter what controller I work on someone isn't going to be happy, just how it is.
I would certainly ask that you try the new tables in RC10 for the ECM torque modelling. Funny thing, before RC10 was released I sent the new .calz files with the torque models off to a few people (a number of the vocal ones) and haven't heard a peep back, kinda leaves me scratching my head. Only a few people bothered posting how much better things were since with the trans since playing with them.I've tried the new ECM torque modeling tables on 6 different tunes. Compared with my best previous TCM tunes, I think there has been some incremental improvements, but time will tell. I've experimented with different tranny settings in the past and had decent initial results, but once the adaptives took over, the tunes weren't as good. I've spent 5 years trying to perfect the 6L80 tuning. This is why I've been tight lipped about the new tunes with the torque modeling. The initial results are positive, but I need some more feedback from the customers out in the field. If I say it's the best thing going based on initial good results, then later find out it's not so hot, I may lead dozens of tuners down the wrong path.

But again, the torque modeling tables still do not address my 6L80 clients with high stall torque converters. They are miserable at 40-45mph with the constant pulsing of the TCC. Locking and unlocking. Locking and unlocking. Makes my TCM tune look like it was done by a beginner. All I was asking for was one very simple table. A TCC slip table. I hate looking like a hack. This table is sorely needed.

[GMPX]

But again, the torque modeling tables still do not address my 6L80 clients with high stall torque converters. They are miserable at 40-45mph with the constant pulsing of the TCC. Locking and unlocking. Locking and unlocking. Makes my TCM tune look like it was done by a beginner. All I was asking for was one very simple table. A TCC slip table. I hate looking like a hack. This table is sorely needed.
Sorry Patrick, I wasn't suggesting the torque model was going to fix everything, I can understand the TCC problems will not be fixed with these tables.

[slowhawk]

But again, the torque modeling tables still do not address my 6L80 clients with high stall torque converters. They are miserable at 40-45mph with the constant pulsing of the TCC. Locking and unlocking. Locking and unlocking. Makes my TCM tune look like it was done by a beginner. All I was asking for was one very simple table. A TCC slip table. I hate looking like a hack. This table is sorely needed.

Just got back in with a converter car and the same damn problem like always. Shifting is not a problem. I get those mint with the software I have. The TCC is another story. Friggin things pulses/slips ect. Makes me look like a rookie tuner. Now I'll give the customer back his car for 1/2 price because it's NOT perfect and he'll go to another tuner, pay again and have the tranny converter lockup fixed. This sucks.

As said, I sent the files with the lockup working correctly done by someone else. Would love to see some time put towards that and getting us control. This is the only thing I need on the A6 tunes, everything else works fine.

[minytrker]

Atleast Im not fighting the same issue alone. I bought HPT, so now I burn a $100 license to adjust one table, sucks to have a T43 stream with EFI and still having to buy license.

[Tre-Cool]

But again, the torque modeling tables still do not address my 6L80 clients with high stall torque converters. They are miserable at 40-45mph with the constant pulsing of the TCC. Locking and unlocking. Locking and unlocking. Makes my TCM tune look like it was done by a beginner. All I was asking for was one very simple table. A TCC slip table. I hate looking like a hack. This table is sorely needed.

What stalls and year transmission are they running? I've had my 3600 stall for nearly 2 years and never experianced any locking drama's.

[zbadestz]

What is needed to have someone put some time on working this into efilive?

[Patrick G]

What is needed to have someone put some time on working this into efilive?Apparently begging and pleading aren't enough. Perhaps bribing is worth a try. Slohawk and Minytrkr are correct, this is really the only table that needs to be added to the trans tuning file to give perfect performance. It couldn't be as daunting a task as figuring out virtual VE (cheers by the way). This looks like a relatively simple table to uncover, but it's absolutely critical to the performance of many, many tunes. Please gentlemen, put some resources to uncovering this one table. It's more critical than you probably realize.

[zbadestz]

Maybe we need to start a poll on this so they can see how much people want it

[gmh308]

Exactly which tables or table is/are the key ones for this? Maybe I can be persuaded to go look :)

[GMPX]

Ian, I can even tell you the address's if you really want to make a .cax file?
One of my big problems is the T43 files I create the .calz files from is in disarray due to me trying to add in a bunch more stuff and never completing it. It's kind of like I pulled a rocker cover off to fix a small oil leak except I ended up tearing the whole engine down. I'll help Ian out any way I can to make the .cax files come to life, that will hopefully tie you over until we get them in the software.

[gmh308]

Ian, I can even tell you the address's if you really want to make a .cax file?
One of my big problems is the T43 files I create the .calz files from is in disarray due to me trying to add in a bunch more stuff and never completing it. It's kind of like I pulled a rocker cover off to fix a small oil leak except I ended up tearing the whole engine down. I'll help Ian out any way I can to make the .cax files come to life, that will hopefully tie you over until we get them in the software.

Sure Ross, I'm up for it. :)

Now the voting on which OS comes first :).

[GMPX]

I sent you an Email Ian, did you not get it yet?

[gmh308]

I sent you an Email Ian, did you not get it yet?

No Ross. Nothing arrived yet. Apologies my email sometimes doesnt work.

[slowhawk]

Apparently begging and pleading aren't enough. Perhaps bribing is worth a try. Slohawk and Minytrkr are correct, this is really the only table that needs to be added to the trans tuning file to give perfect performance. It couldn't be as daunting a task as figuring out virtual VE (cheers by the way). This looks like a relatively simple table to uncover, but it's absolutely critical to the performance of many, many tunes. Please gentlemen, put some resources to uncovering this one table. It's more critical than you probably realize.

I just bought HPT like so many to control converter lockup. Friggin sucks for something so small in my eye's.

[tokymon]

I agree that it sucks to have to buy other software to adjust one table
But look at the fact that now you can tune 04 and up ruststains and f150s
And maybe dodge gas ..... Been waiting four years for this
Owning both has widend my customer base
I just charge extra if I have to use both softwares

[zbadestz]

I just bought HPT like so many to control converter lockup. Friggin sucks for something so small in my eye's.

I tuned my car with EFItuners

[GMPX]

Should mention for anyone following this thread, the TCC slip tables have been added in the latest public release. You can download it from our main web page.

[Longslyde]

:notacrook: Sweet! thanks for the info GMPX! :good:

[zbadestz]

Can someone explain what this does with my Yank 2800.....Thank you

[Longslyde]

Can someone explain what this does with my Yank 2800.....Thank you

If you have a problem with TCC lockup going in and out at cruising speed, (a common problem with some aftermarket conveters), These tables will help you sort it out. You can find out if you have the issue by logging tcc slip. It should stay at or near 0 slip when in lockup. If it does not, the tables will need adjustment.

[zbadestz]

Can you post a screen shot?

[picnic_george]

My friend is tuning a 2011 camaro a6 with a 3200 yank converter and this seems to be a big issue. He's using HPT and he wants me to take a look at it. I have never used HPT nor do I know anything about these transmissions. Seems like some of you guys use HPT to tune the transmission for a converter

Can anyone tell me what tables to look at and adjust? I tune my own car and a couple others with EFIlive but this is over my head for sure. It can't be that difficult(I hope)... I would assume, it's just engagement and line pressure isnt it?

Thanks for the help
Kris

[joecar]

Kris,

Install the latest V7/V8 software, you will find that there are some new tables.

[Longslyde]

My friend is tuning a 2011 camaro a6 with a 3200 yank converter and this seems to be a big issue. He's using HPT and he wants me to take a look at it. I have never used HPT nor do I know anything about these transmissions. Seems like some of you guys use HPT to tune the transmission for a converter

Can anyone tell me what tables to look at and adjust? I tune my own car and a couple others with EFIlive but this is over my head for sure. It can't be that difficult(I hope)... I would assume, it's just engagement and line pressure isnt it?

Thanks for the help
Kris

Take a look at my previous post #11 in this thread. That shows the tables to look at along with a basic walkthrough of the changes I did to mine. Same priciples will apply but may be slightly different numbers for your application. I had to use HP at the time so those are the tables I used in HP. Good luck!

[picnic_george]

Kris,

Install the latest V7/V8 software, you will find that there are some new tables.I haven't plugged efilive into as I don't know if I should spend another $100 on license when it's already hooked up to hpt. Don't get me wrong I love EFIlive and I have no reason to switch.
I'm also upset that this jackass threw a 3200 stall in a stock convertible camaro that is being used for nothing more than putting around in.


Take a look at my previous post #11 in this thread. That shows the tables to look at along with a basic walkthrough of the changes I did to mine. Same priciples will apply but may be slightly different numbers for your application. I had to use HP at the time so those are the tables I used in HP. Good luck!Ya I saw that and it was helpful I'll try it out. Are those the only numbers you messed with?

Are you using efilive now to do it?

Thanks

[Longslyde]

I did not try the new tables in EFIlive yet myself since I haven't had another unit to tune as of yet. If he has HP, then those 4 tables should fix his issue. You'd have to burn a license if you use efi to take care of it so if he's on HP now then use those 4 tables. (NOT plugging HP guys, I'd rather tune with EFI by far!) I will be trying EFI's table next round for sure...

[picnic_george]

Thank you very much. You've been a better help than I found over there. Which is another reason to stick with efilive. You guys here have always been helpful and for that I appreciate it.

And always Joe, thank you for helping if I get another chance to mess with a a6 I'll check it out. It's just something I got thrown into because I tune some ls cars.

Kris

[tpage]

Hi, I am new to the forum and have a torque converter noise when going into lockup it sounds like it is slipping bad (growl) the converter is a TCI 3000 stall 389 gears in rear 430hp and 400ftlbs at tires any help would be great!!!!!

[joecar]

Are you sure the TC bolts have not loosened...?

If the TCC is slipping you can try setting the minimum TCC pressure high (I'm not sure if your TCM has this table)...

but in anycase, TCC slippage is a physical problem.

[picnic_george]

On the camaro we were doing, played with all those settings listed(not that it matters in this case being as it HPT). But we had some funny sounds even though it felt great. Had the clutch lock up a little higher on the mph and it went away. It may not have even been the converter making the noise it could have been drone from the headers/exhaust on the car. I think it probably was the converter though. It was very minor but probably not ok for a brand new car to have that issue. Car seemed great after that...

[slowhawk]

I've noticed on the 2011 Camaro's that we have no TCC pressure table's. Would love to see that added to hold the converters. Deleting the slip table's helps but not enough.