getting STS kit

[ZL1Killa]

I plan on getting an STS turbo kit and the car will remain at the stock 5psi boost levels, what other supporting mods would I need to do if i wasn't going to rag the car (dumping the clutch and other silly stuff) It would probably see a track trip on street tires but thats about it. and what tuning would i do?

Do i have to buy a 2 bar sensor or do i just tune in 2 bar (I'm a complete newbie on this) yes i just said newbie.

[GMPX]

I would normally recommend running without the MAF on any forced induction motor and use a 2bar sensor, but it makes tuning it correctly fall soley on YOU.
If you can retain the MAF then it should get the fueling pretty close for the most part, others would know more about this, but I think with an 85mm MAF you should still be able to run about 5psi and not max it out?.

Of course, you will enjoy 5psi for a few weeks then want more!.

Cheers,
Ross

[ZL1Killa]

lol, i'm already running no MAF, my speed density will be done this coming Saturday when I go home from college.

LOL, I know eventually I will want more boost but right now in the situation I'm in with school and the car we can't afford to build a huge project car like some people have done. I think that i would have to replace what....?? 5psi on a stock block..what would it break? lol. Basically I'm looking at getting the turbo kit, keeping it at 5psi, getting rear control arms, and a panhard bar and matching that with a 12 bolt or more than likely a 9inch.....then after some time and saving some more money redo the tranny(have to take it easy until tranny gets done too)

I want to make the motor stronger and be able to last a while, its a father and son build....so yeh dad gets mad when the car isn't working or doesn't come out of the shop for a couple days....what can I say though, he loves to drive it

[ZL1Killa]

what exactly to i have to do when going forced induction and how do i use this 2 bar sensor? Do I have to buy anything or just double click the 2 bar on the pids on efilive scantool and log?

if you can't tell i know what it is, but i don't know a durn thing about it, lol. My speed density tune will be done this Saturday on my car and my AFR will finally be right.

[ZL1Killa]

2 bar sensor anyone??explain

[Tordne]

There are specific 2 bar sensors. In some other threads there are part numbers mentioned. Sorry I can't be more help I am still a poor N/A man :)

[eboggs_jkvl]

5 PSi of boost to me was....


Immediate replacement of clutch to ClutchMaster Stage 3
Strange 12 bolt (If you use sticky tires at the strip)
Adco Torque Arm to reduce wheel hop
LCA lowering brackets to reduce wheel hop
SFC to stop body flex
New 3" exhaust to let the engine breathe


Other stuff was optional! :D:D



Elmer

[ZL1Killa]

all i need to know about now is the 2 bar sensor that i would need, lol

I already got SFC, strut twr brc, exhaust, I'm going to be getting rear control arms and panhard bar

[GMPX]

Please try the search feature on the forum, I know this has been discussed many times before, but I have no idea what the part numbers you need are.

Cheers,
Ross

[kbracing96]

2 bar map, Gm PN 12580698 is a plug and play, at least for the trucks and I think for the cars too.

[turboberserker]

I guess I should point out that I also plan on staying at the 5psi level.

:muahaha:That lasted exactly 2 days. 3 months later, I had the 408 and GT70... :banana:

[madprof01]

at 5psi you can get away with the 1bar and using the maf. anything more you will need a 2bar. You will need bigger injectors. (plan ahead for other boost levels) with the inj. you will then have to adj. idle control parameters. If you dont have good wideband afr get one. no platinum plugs. cant thimk of anything else right now
Eric
Matthews automotive Super Shop

[redhardsupra]

at 5psi you can get away with the 1bar and using the maf. anything more you will need a 2bar. You will need bigger injectors. (plan ahead for other boost levels) with the inj. you will then have to adj. idle control parameters. If you dont have good wideband afr get one. no platinum plugs. cant thimk of anything else right now
Eric
Matthews automotive Super Shop
wrong and wrong. sorry :(
at 5psi on t67q we hit 140+kPa (way beyond 1bar) and MAF got maxed out by 4800rpm. svo42s wont' cut it either, gotta go bigger.
i got logs/pictures to prove it if you'd like.

[ZL1Killa]

at 5psi you can get away with the 1bar and using the maf. anything more you will need a 2bar. You will need bigger injectors. (plan ahead for other boost levels) with the inj. you will then have to adj. idle control parameters. If you dont have good wideband afr get one. no platinum plugs. cant thimk of anything else right now
Eric
Matthews automotive Super Shop

wtf are you talking about man....5psi is DEF above 105kPa

i will def need larger injectors....why did you post this?

I need to know real stuff since this car is going to have to be built to last.

redhardsupra...thanks for saving that. I would have posted before you and said thats a big can of "tuna" but didn't beat ya to it

[ZL1Killa]

I guess I should point out that I also plan on staying at the 5psi level.

:muahaha:That lasted exactly 2 days. 3 months later, I had the 408 and GT70... :banana:

unless i get rich quick...or land a huge internship/job of some sort it will be staying at 5psi and not seeing the track. Been saving for this for a WHILE.

Now in some due time...on down the road here say once i get out of college, IF i have a good job something WILL happen...and it will be around 8-10psi. lol BUT THATS BESIDES THE POINT RIGHT NOW!!! LOL

[ZL1Killa]

5 PSi of boost to me was....


Immediate replacement of clutch to ClutchMaster Stage 3
Strange 12 bolt (If you use sticky tires at the strip)
Adco Torque Arm to reduce wheel hop
LCA lowering brackets to reduce wheel hop
SFC to stop body flex
New 3" exhaust to let the engine breathe


Other stuff was optional! :D:D



Elmer

When i order the STS kit I will also be ordering:

rear control arms
panhard bar
new fuel pump(if it doesn't come w/one which i don't think it does)
new injectors (60 or higher)


will the stock pushrods.....and valvetrain take the boost? I saw the build up of the camaro at EPP http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/projectCar.php?car=32

I do realize that I'm not running as much boost as he is, and that I don't have a built motor like he does either...but I really need mine to last

[madprof01]

You need to remember I live at 5000 feet and did not say it was rightI said you could get away with it. I ahve three customers who cheaped on us when it came down to it with the 6 lb systems who only got injectors and tuning and they love it. Let me clarify, to be done right injectors should be moded to bosch style plugs no maf iridium plugs t body coolant bypassed trailblazer torque converter electronic boost controller with methanol (sts) and finally a custom operating system. Im sure I forgot something but you get the idea. I also have a tacome running 6 lb system with no fuel management and he is not nice to it. installed 11 months ago. also ATi makes a real nice second pump system that is complete for the ls1 cars I think its pretty reasonable

[ZL1Killa]

getting away with it doesn't mean fully working to its most potential and safe.

all of those words need to be spaced out some man; I appreciate your post and your info, but jeez; take some time and make it readible. I have a 6spd so no tq converter.

I was right when I assumed to build the valvetrain up, stock parts don't like double the amount of TQ; Marcin, thanks for the info, glad i can actually think of what needs to be replaced

[Redline Motorsports]

I would definately start out slow if this is your first boosted motor tuning adventure, especially if the car is a requirement during school! 60 lb/hr injectors would be a great starting point with room to grow. The 2 bar is also a must to get going. Make sure that you run an NGK TR6 plug for boosted applications. Its a colder plug then the widely N/A used 55's.

The next biggest thing is to go easy with timing. The stock LS1 pistons like to break ring lands when treated to detonation for even short periods. I have installed a few STS kits as we are a dealer for the products. They do a nice job for a "bolt on" kit! 5lbs of boost will wake you up!

[ZL1Killa]

thanks, you say go easy with timing? so should i lower all of my spark table(s) to say 20 or less?

i do realize that once you go into the custom OS that there are other spark/ different spark tables

[ZL1Killa]

This build is a father and son build....I have my 91 buick regal for the college car!!!!! LOL 10.4 @ some mph...can't seem to find the slip at the moment..think its still in the regal. (in 1/8th mile)

We want to build the car so its fun to drive and I didn't really care to do a cam..since everyone around me has done so and I want something different and more fun (i didn't say easier or not, just wanted something no one would expect from my car.

here is a picture of what the engine looks like now....yes, that is dryer vent tubing, haha.

I STILL have the STOCK MUFFLER...stock exterior...3 gauges (a-pillar) B&M ripper shifter and thats really about it so that tells you what my car looks like..trying to stay sleeper. I do realize that the turbo will be heard.

should i save up and just get a built 346...similar to what the guys at EPP did? or if I don't hammer on the car too bad and get a good tune in with low spark and good AFr will it be ok with the valvetrain mods that I plan on ?

[madprof01]

double or triple your fuel tables. I drop timing where I think I will see boost to 10 deg and work my way back up. also, tune in open loop and mind your mulitipliers. sorry to have confused you!
Good luck and have fun!
Eric

[ZL1Killa]

thanks man, so start timing at around 10 degrees for most of the table (under throttle) and work back up from there?

[madprof01]

Thats the way I start boost timing adjustments because it easier to approach knock limit than to try to eliminate timing to eliminate knock. The stategy of knock is to pull out set amount the increase in .5 or so degrees untill it sees knock again.
Eric

[redhardsupra]

you don't want to put the timing right on the edge of timing.
1. what if the environment changes and you're back in knock territory?
2. max power doesn't necessairly happen right before knock. especially on turbos.
figure it out empirically by measuring times or at least comparative power produced (i don't believe in absolute dyno numbers), not by trying to get it almost explode ;)

[ZL1Killa]

also, with the MAF installed runing the 5lbs of boost off of the STS kit..

what would you want part throttle AFR to be? and how would you change it? would you change the stoich reference so that it will be 'safe' at part throttle too?

also WOT on the MAF, obviously that comes down to the actual numbers in the MAF; SO assuming that you just change those numbers(raising them)/ and your PE numbers to around a ~11.5 or so

I have my MAF dialed in so far, and WOT slopes from a 12.8~13.0 up high

[ZL1Killa]

info....

[ZL1Killa]

now.. with the MAF installed
controlling the AFR and keeping the LTFT's down being under forced induction you would simply change the MAF numbers to a higher value to add fuel.

So getting ready for forced induction would you scale up the MAF numbers from a certain frequency on up by a certain percentage?

[kbracing96]

You should be using PE to add fuel when boosting, not the MAF. It should be tuned with out boost.

[ZL1Killa]

You should be using PE to add fuel when boosting, not the MAF. It should be tuned with out boost.

so you just go in the PE table and set it down to a lower number such as around 11.5 or so and then leave the MAF numbers alone

[kbracing96]

so you just go in the PE table and set it down to a lower number such as around 11.5 or so and then leave the MAF numbers alone
Yep;)

[ZL1Killa]

what do you set part throttle to? just leave it at stoich

[kbracing96]

Yep, you don't need fuel enrichment when your not in boost.

[ZL1Killa]

well hot damn...

now i got to just work on spark tables for boost...i thought fueling would be a pain too but guess not.

[kbracing96]

well hot damn...

now i got to just work on spark tables for boost...i thought fueling would be a pain too but guess not.

Funny you should mention timing. Jesse (wait4me) suggested I start with a spark table from a 01 Camaro for my timing with the turbo. I would imagine that it is the same as your TA. Work great with just some minor tweaking.

[ZL1Killa]

yeh, i have my stock spark tables. I have some modified sprk tables now but i'm still tweaking them. what are you running boost wise now? and have you replaced the pistons yet?