9.9 to 1 idle AFR

[1bar]

Hi,

I was hoping you guys could help me with my idle issues. I have a stock motor LS1 with a turbo and EFI live software. I have two pumps in the tank, rails, -8 feed with 60 lbs mototron injectors. I scaled my IFR table for these injectors and my innovative wideband still says I am at 9.9 to 1 AFR at idle. What would be my next step to leaning out the idle so it won't stink the place up:muahaha:

Thanks,
Glenn

[Black02SS]

Adjust the VE table.

[1bar]

Thanks Chad, I am really new to this so I will try it and let you know how it goes. I have auto VE tuning and every time I flash an idle tune a couple of times it starts sturging and stubling:nixweiss:

[GMPX]

Glenn,

Auto VE will battle (or be slow) to get something that far out back in.
Assuming the Injector table is scaled correctly then as Chad says you need to reduce the VE table numbers. Given you are that far out as a test I would just select the entire VE, reduce by 20% and just see if it starts and idles better.....it might go too lean, so don't give it a blast down the street!.
Thing is, if your VE ends up with really small numbers then you really need to redo the Injector table I'd suggest. As an example, if you end up with VE table numbers like 0.5122 Grams*Kelvin/kPa then something is not right with one of the base setup tables (like injector flow rate).

Anyway, just remember to take it slow and ask if you are not sure, we have had some users tune turbo LS1's as thier first tuning attempt, so it is possible.

Also, I know you tried to PM me but my PM box was full......it only takes a few days of not reading them and that's what happens, in future, I'd suggest posting up on the board and I'll try to respond here.

Cheers,
Ross

[Black02SS]

I have a question, what is your fuel pressure at the rail at idle? Did you take that into consideration when you scaled the injectors? Is your wideband setup correctly? If Yes, have you checked it with a multimeter to see if the voltage from the output is the same as live is seeing on the scaner?

Just some ideas.

[1bar]

Man, you guys are awesome. The fuel pressure at the rails is 60 psi and I used 60 psi when I plugged the numbers into RedhardSupras injector spread sheet. I also plugged 60 in for the flow of the injectors.

Chad, I have not tested the WB with a meter but the numbers on the scanner and the numbers from the innovate meter are usually the same.

Ross, thanks for the reply...just so you guys know, I baught efilive and jesse helped me get it all set up but I need to lean out the idle.

I will try reducing the VE and tell you what happens.

:thankyou2: :thankyou2:
Glenn

[turboberserker]

I'm not familiar with that spread sheet, but those mototrons are 60lbs/hr @ 43.5psi. If that's what the spreadsheet calls for (the @43.5psi) its all good, but if it wants the actual, it should be closer to 70lb/hr.

Are you IFR values closer to 60 or 70?

[Black02SS]

This is what I come up with using 60lbs at 43.5 with a PSI rating of 60psi.

70.466426
70.923011
71.379598
71.836183
72.292770
72.597161
73.053746
73.510333
73.966917
74.271309
74.727893
75.184480
75.641065
75.945456
76.402043
76.858628
77.163019

[1bar]

Sorry guys,

School and work....:Eyecrazy:

Chad that is what I came up with. I used the G/Sec part of the same calculation and put it in.

turboberserker, The IFR is set for 60..any thoughts?

TAQuickness helped me change the VE today and the sucker is still at 10.0 to 1 at idle:bawl:

I wonder if the two intank pumps is to much for that IFR table:nixweiss:

glenn

[Black02SS]

If you are only seeing 60psi on the rail, then that IMO shouldn't be a difference. Can you send me your tune? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.

[1bar]

Sure, what is you email address?

Glenn

[1bar]

never mind just got it

[Black02SS]

Replied ....

[Black02SS]

Just so you guys know, his Ve table is getting low, in the .60 range now for idle. What I did notice though is his injector pulse width is REALLY low. I think he may be getting into a case where the injector can't close anymore causing it to have a rich idle.

[turboberserker]

turboberserker, The IFR is set for 60..any thoughts?


So the IFR is closer to 60lb/hr? If so, you are telling the PCM the injectors are smaller than they actually are. Since the PCM thinks they are smaller, it is injecting more fuel (longer pulse widths) to try to hit the AFR mark. This will make you run rich. I don't know if that's all the problem because 10:1 is pretty rich from 14.63, but could be a large part of it.

[turboberserker]

Just so you guys know, his Ve table is getting low, in the .60 range now for idle. What I did notice though is his injector pulse width is REALLY low. I think he may be getting into a case where the injector can't close anymore causing it to have a rich idle.

What are the ipws?

[TAQuickness]

ipws = injector pulse width they are just shy of 2ms at hot idle.

I double checked his IFR table and it was right.

I adjusted the minimum injector pulse width so his PCM will allow the small pusles without adding additional time to the pulse.

Waiting to get home to check email and get the results.

[turboberserker]

ipws = injector pulse width they are just shy of 2ms at hot idle.

I double checked his IFR table and it was right.

I adjusted the minimum injector pulse width so his PCM will allow the small pusles without adding additional time to the pulse.

Waiting to get home to check email and get the results.
Good deal. That was my next suggestion.

Strange that the ipws are that low. Mine are in the 2.4 range with the same injectors at 56-57psi at idle. Sticky injector maybe?

As a comparison, down low I have some very low VE numbers as well, but that's to be expected, imo, with big heads and big cam.


Come to think of it, I started with the calculated IFR but then tweaked it by ear and plug for idle. I'll double check (and have a return system with boost referenced manifold), but my IFR is 70 or 71 I believe.

[GMPX]

Just so you guys know, his Ve table is getting low, in the .60 range now for idle.

That's why I mentioned it in my post, getting numbers that low something isn't right.

Cheers,
Ross

[jfpilla]

1Bar,
What happens when you use the BIDI controls for A/F? Try it.

[TAQuickness]

I dunno. Our man is in CA and keeps a busy schedule.

[1bar]

Sorry gentleman,

I work two jobs and attend school so my schedule can get crazy. I have to pay for my toy somehow:muahaha:

Anyways, I just logged another file and sent it to Andy and Chad. Thanks guys. This board is amazing. I don't feel alone anymore:bawl:


1Bar,
What happens when you use the BIDI controls for A/F? Try it.

I am not sure what this means. Maybe someone could fill me in:coool:

turboberserker - The car has a funny little miss in it. Do you think an injector could be sticking open?? I filled in my IFR with G/Sec, this means that it will have the same LB/HR right?

Thanks again everyone:thankyou2:
Glenn

[jfpilla]

Sorry gentleman,

I work two jobs and attend school so my schedule can get crazy. I have to pay for my toy somehow:muahaha:

Anyways, I just logged another file and sent it to Andy and Chad. Thanks guys. This board is amazing. I don't feel alone anymore:bawl:


1Bar,
What happens when you use the BIDI controls for A/F? Try it.

I am not sure what this means. Maybe someone could fill me in:coool:

turboberserker - The car has a funny little miss in it. Do you think an injector could be sticking open?? I filled in my IFR with G/Sec, this means that it will have the same LB/HR right?

Thanks again everyone:thankyou2:
Glenn

Sorry, that's "Bidirectional Controls" in the scan tool. If you set the A/F ratio using it and your wide band reads the same that should rule out mechanical problems.

[1bar]

I'll try this tomorrow and see what it does.

Thanks for all the help.

glenn

[TAQuickness]

I think I found the problem... MAF was fully functional per the calibration.