E38/T42 4l60E P0717 Code

[minytrker]

I have a E38 (LS3)/ T42 (4L60e) swap in a vette. Since its a 4L60 instead of a 4L65 I am getting a P0717 code, is there any way around this or will I have to change the trans to a 4L65?

[ScarabEpic22]

Have you turned the ISS off in the TCM tune? Post the TCM tune and look at D7026.

[minytrker]

I havent tried that yet. I do have that table in the tune. Unfortunately the car is about 2 hours away from me. I am just trying to get some ideas before driving that far again. If this cant be resolved they have to take the body back off in order to pull the trans. This is in a $100,000+ mint show car.

[Taz]

Set all parameters related to the ISS to "Not Reported" or "No". Many running this setup - will work just fine once you sort the DTCs out.

Got to love people who spend big dollars, but cut corners on the little things - like the transmission.


Regards,
Taz

[ScarabEpic22]

Try it, Ive heard that in the TBSS guys have swapped 4L60Es in that dont have an ISS and dont even get a code...that said, cant hurt to try it. Not sure what other tables need to be changed, but Taz is correct, just kill all the ISS tables. Its not really needed IMO.

[minytrker]

Just changing 0717 to Not reported will not work, I didnt try every code related to it though. Its a 100% brand new 4l65E from GM with a 13 pin connector instead of a 15pin. They are not not LS experts and never ran into this before. Corners werent cut on any of there builds, most are pretty much unlimited budget builds.

[Taz]

... Its a 100% brand new 4l65E from GM with a 13 pin connector instead of a 15pin ...

OK ... somewhat confused ... in your first post you stated it was a 4L60 ... now it seems it is a new from GM 4L65. If it is a new 4L65 (which are still in use in production 4.8 L trucks) - then it will have an ISS, and the transmission connector will use 17 out of the 20 available cavities. The stock T42 for this transmission would have the ISS functions active.



... Corners werent cut on any of there builds, most are pretty much unlimited budget builds ...

In 2012 a budget of 100K is pretty much entry level for a full custom build. Two of the custom builds I tuned last year each had budgets over 3 times that much. Neither used a 4L65.


Regards,
Taz

[minytrker]

I am not getting in a pissing contest with you if you tuned a more expensive car, the cars bill is well over $100,000 easily but its not place to put someone's exact bill out there. This is actually the first time they used 4l60's in there builds 99% of them are 6l80's or magnum 6 speed's neither have anything to do with this post.
I was told originally it was a 4l60....today they called back and said according to there part number and paper work from GM its a 4L65 not a 4l60. The car throws a P0717 code which is active in the T42 controller that was used in the car. Im stuck 2 hours away and want atleast a game plan to try before driving that far.

[minytrker]

Can the T42 be full flashed from a 2008 to a 2006?

[Taz]

... I am not getting in a pissing contest with you if you tuned a more expensive car ...

That was not my intent ... nor was it my intent to offend you ... was merely offering a little 2012 reality check. I understand now that you are under some pressure with this one - making the timing of my comments poor.

To answer your T42 question - Yes.


Regards,
Taz

[ScarabEpic22]

Yes, weird about it being a 65E and throwing an ISS code...

Could it be in the TCM wiring? Ive heard all T42s are wired the same way, but Im pretty sure thats incorrect as 06-07 TBSSs can use the same TCM OS but 08-09s cannot. (They're 70Es, but that shouldnt matter for this argument.)

What year ECM OS are you running? Are they a matched pair (E38/T42 OSs), as in a factory option?

EDIT:
OK, so its throwing the P0717 code but it is a 65E with an ISS? (Or is the ISS part unknown at this stage?) Try changing the ISS table I mentioned a few posts ago (D7026) and killing the DTCs, but you're correct that just disabling the DTCs wont do it. I think the biggest thing is to make sure the ECM and TCM OS are a GM factory matched pair, then go from there (if they aren't already).

[minytrker]

Yes, weird about it being a 65E and throwing an ISS code...

Could it be in the TCM wiring? Ive heard all T42s are wired the same way, but Im pretty sure thats incorrect as 06-07 TBSSs can use the same TCM OS but 08-09s cannot. (They're 70Es, but that shouldnt matter for this argument.)

What year ECM OS are you running? Are they a matched pair (E38/T42 OSs), as in a factory option?

EDIT:
OK, so its throwing the P0717 code but it is a 65E with an ISS? (Or is the ISS part unknown at this stage?) Try changing the ISS table I mentioned a few posts ago (D7026) and killing the DTCs, but you're correct that just disabling the DTCs wont do it. I think the biggest thing is to make sure the ECM and TCM OS are a GM factory matched pair, then go from there (if they aren't already).


Thats the two issues. The ECM and TCM are not matched IMO. They initially setup by the company who did the harness. I get stuck coming behind them to tune the cars in person. I dont know of anything GM did with a E38 LS3 and a 4L60/5.

[joecar]

Post the TCM file.

[minytrker]

This is the tune that was in it from who ever did the harness.

[ScarabEpic22]

Ah yes, that combo only existed in trucks, Silverado 5.3/6.2 (E38) + 4L70E (T42) I think. What ECM OS is it using (Vette, Silverado, etc)?

That tune looks ok except for the ISS tables, sounds like you're going to have to talk with the builder and figure out what they want to do. Try and turn the code off or worst case, redo the engine/trans harness so you can run truck parts and a truck ECM/TCM OS.

[minytrker]

Here is the tune that came in the ECM.

I am hoping to find a solution through tuning, because the bad thing is there is another car exactly like this one. So IF it comes down to pulling the trans then they have to disassemble two cars since they were both built alike.

[Taz]

Took a look at the segment numbers from both the E38 and T42 calibrations you posted. The T42 looks like it was originally based on a 2008 Yukon / Tahoe 5.3L LC9 4L65 4 x 4 - not a perfect match, but very close. The E38 appears to be based on a 2008 Sierra / Silverado 5.3L LY5 4L65 - with the exception of the system segment (12616621).

I was unable to track down the origin of the system segment. Hopefully it is simply one that I have never seen before (and don't have on file) - and not one that was swapped in, for whatever reason.


Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

Took a really quick look at the tunes you posted - more than a little time starved currently. Whoever set them up disabled most items you would expect in a retrofit application - but they left the ISS active.

Attached is the T42 tune with very minor changes related to the ISS - should run without setting ISS DTCs now.


Regards,
Taz

[minytrker]

That got rid of the P0717 code. BUT now it gets to 75% throttle and thats about it most of the time. When you go WOT it will pull the TB back to 75% 9 out of 10 times. I cant figure out what is doing it, there are no codes either.

[Taz]

Checking in remotely ... no access to tuning software ... it may be that a torque limit is being reached, and causing the throttle reduction. Can't recall the torque settings in your ECM & TCM tunes. The forthcoming updates to the software should include an ECM torque table - which may help.


Regards,
Taz

[Chuck CoW]

Hey Guys,

This past year my buddy built an expensive project vehicle with an 08 vintage LS3 and a T42. Someone supplied the harness and modules.

The vehicle didn't start or run, no less shift.

If got it running now with some 2008 Silverado calibrations, but it won't shift and the speedo only bounces.

I believe the problem is that he installed a 4L60e that does not have an ISS sensor and the tcm is expecting it.

I have no definitive answers from anyone that has successfully used a NON-ISS trans with a T42. Turning off

codes or telling the TCM the ISS is not present has not helped thus far.

Anyone have experience with this or can shed some light?

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Chuck CoW

[ScarabEpic22]

Hey Chuck, there are a handful of TrailBlazer SS guys running around with non-ISS transmissions swapped in, just by killing the codes and changing the tune values. If that's not working for you, not sure what would solve it as I haven't dug into it before. There must be a way, at least with E67+T42 combo (LS3 to me usually means E38).

[Chuck CoW]

We've done all that and still no luck.

The other problem is that we have a very erratic speedo that does not seem to want to behave.

It's an 08 E38 T42 combo originally TIS flashed from a single truck vin.

Chuck CoW

[ScarabEpic22]

Did you look through the TCM and kill everything released to ISS? P0716 codes as well?

Does it run and drive now, just troubleshooting the P0717 and ISS related codes?

[Chuck CoW]

Did you look through the TCM and kill everything released to ISS? P0716 codes as well?

Does it run and drive now, just troubleshooting the P0717 and ISS related codes?

Yeah, tried all that and it didn't seem to make a difference.

Strange enough, I got back involved in this thread because a 2007 Suburban came in with a P0716 & P0717

Did lots of testing with it and can't seem to put my finger on it but this kid has had 4 transmissions in the truck

previously and 2 or 3 of them had the P0717 code.... Chased wiring, grounds, replace controller, and all sorts of other

stuff and still every so often it throws the code and while it shifts and drives, the TCM commands max line and it

blasts into second much harder than is acceptable. I've never seen an ISS fail and I've rebuilt many of those units

so this is killing me.... It's a low voltage code, but the solenoids in the trans all share the same power feed....

Up next, Gotta get the pan off and see what there is to see inside.

No fun.

Chuck CoW

've

[Chuck CoW]

Did you look through the TCM and kill everything released to ISS? P0716 codes as well?

Does it run and drive now, just troubleshooting the P0717 and ISS related codes?

So, now I have another friend who came in with a 09 Trailblazer I5 with an E67 and T42. Same shit with P0716 and P0717 going into max pressure mode.

Disabling the same codes on this vehicle also created a P0741 TCC stuck off condition. The other vehicle did not do this.

This is an E67 / T42 combo.

To the best of my knowledge there is no T42 calibration that does not utilize the ISS for 4L60/70e. If anyone knows of a calibration or application that

does not use the ISS I would love to know about it.

Additionally, the 2 vehicles where I have the ISS turned off and the codes disabled, each person says that the trans is a bit better but the overall trans behavior

is not what it was before the ISS fault happened and was disabled.....

Still a mystery.... Hopefully someone has some input here.

I cant believe that you can turn off something the tcm is expecting to see without consequence.

Iss is used for lots of stuff, especially converter slip and I can't imagine that it can be just "turned off"

Your thoughts?

Chuck CoW

[joecar]

Thinking Out Loud:

besides DTC's, are there any other diagnostic data that we can look at...

for example, will Mode $6 data reveal anything, is there Mode $6 or equivalent for T42...?

[ScarabEpic22]

09+ may be a different story as that's when GM switched to the internal MLPS, removed a solenoid, and changed the wiring harness (think that's correct).

Weird to hear about the ISS fighting you like this Chuck, not sure why it is. I think you're correct, all T42s had a trans equipped with the ISS...

[Chuck CoW]

Hey Joe I don't think efilive ever mapped out mode $ parameters in the trans controllers.... I've never really looked, but don't remember seeing it either.

Chuck CoW

[minytrker]

Hey Guys,

This past year my buddy built an expensive project vehicle with an 08 vintage LS3 and a T42. Someone supplied the harness and modules.

The vehicle didn't start or run, no less shift.

If got it running now with some 2008 Silverado calibrations, but it won't shift and the speedo only bounces.

I believe the problem is that he installed a 4L60e that does not have an ISS sensor and the tcm is expecting it.

I have no definitive answers from anyone that has successfully used a NON-ISS trans with a T42. Turning off

codes or telling the TCM the ISS is not present has not helped thus far.

Anyone have experience with this or can shed some light?

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Chuck CoW


From reading the rest of the post it sounds like there may be other issues. I have successfully tuned many swaps now with E38/T42 with a 4l60 with no ISS and made them work correctly. They all took some tweaking and not just turning off codes.