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Blacky
March 10th, 2012, 05:51 PM
Release Candidate 10 of the EFILive V7.5 and V8 software is available for download.
Although we've released this software as a release candidate version, we believe that it is ready for production use. If you use this software and something fails please inform us immediately so we can fix it asap.
If the issue is minor, post the issue in this thread. If the issue is major please start a new thread and post a link to the new thread in this thread.

(All we ask is that you make allowances for the time difference between you place and ours - sometimes it will work in your favor, sometimes you may need to wait. We are currently 3 hours behind the US west coast time. So we will be online checking for issues from about 11:30am to 10:00pm US west coast time.)

Please familiarize yourself with the updates that have been made in all RC versions. You may need to manage the differences between this RC10 release and whatever public release your customers may be using. Including helping them the convert their existing *.ctd files to *.ctz files. See the section below under the *.ctd v's *.ctz file format heading, it explains the automatic conversion tools available to help you and your customers convert those files.

We do not plan on releasing any more RC versions. We plan for this RC10 to be the stable release that will go live some time later this month.


Auto Update:

This latest release candidate uses a new installer from Indigo Rose that is not compatible with the current public release V7.5 and V8 software that has been installed with the QSetup installer.
The RC10 installer will automatically check for and uninstall incompatible versions of EFILive. In previous RC updates some user data (such as registration details) was accidentally being overwritten. This RC10 installer attempts to backup and restore that user data so that it is not lost. However, we also recommend backing up your \My Documents\EFILive\V7.5 folder prior to installing RC10. That way if any files do get overwritten or deleted, you can always restore them from your backup copy.

The new installer supports auto updating but it will not be enabled until the full public release of the EFILive software.
For now, please download and install this release candidate using the links below.


Updated install available here:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?18861-Public-release-March-29-2012


Important information
Boot block and Firmware updates
Please update your FlashScan and AutoCal boot blocks to V2.07.04 (Dec 13, 2011) and the firmware to V2.07.24 (Mar 08, 2012).
The boot block update fixes a problem with AutoCal's LCD in low temperatures.
After updating to firmware V2.07.24, you will no longer be able to revert back to an earlier version of the firmware.

*.ctd v's *.ctz file format
*.ctd (calibration tune data) files are no longer supported by the latest FlashScan and AutoCal firmware. The new file format supported by FlashScan and AutoCal is *.ctz (calibration tune zip) files. The V7.5 and V8 software will continue to allow you to open/read *.ctd files but you can only save files in the new *.ctz file format. This is only a concern for tuners that are sending tune files to their customers. If you want to send *.ctz files to your customers, then your customers must also have the latest V7.5 and V8 software installed and must also have their FlashScans and AutoCals updated with the latest firmware.

We have added an auto conversion feature in the V8 Scan and Tune software that will automatically convert all the *.ctd files to *.ctz files in any folder (and sub-folders) that you select. You can also automatically convert all the *.ctd files to *.ctz files on a FlashScan or AutoCal device. Look for the F8: Tools option in the main Scan and Tune window.

Script Files (i.e. *.obj files used to read/flash the controllers - not to be confused with script files that are used to automate calibration updates)


Script files have been updated. The latest script files must be copied to FlashScan/AutoCal devices to maintain compatibility with the latest V2.07.24 (Mar 08, 2012) firmware.


Known Issues:
Issue #1


Attempting to read a CMB/CMC controller using standalone reading (BBR) when no vehicle is connected to FlashScan/AutoCal may cause FlashScan/AutoCal to hang. In that case you should power cycle FlashScan/AutoCal to regain control.


Issue #2


AutoCal may become unresponsive to USB commands from the host PC after completing a BBF operation while still connected to the PC via USB.
Issue #3
Sometimes the fields on the "Security Restrictions" panel in the "F3: Tune" -> "F4: Properties" window are not visible - select another panel, then re-select the "Security Restrictions" panel to make them visible again.

Issue #4 (Added March 12)
The E39/E78 virtual VE calibartions have not been included in this RC10. We are still finalizing those two controllers. As soon as they are ready the *.calz files needed for E39/E78 VVE support will be made avalailable for download.

Issue #5 (Added March 13)
Gauges in dashboard "A" in the V7 Scan Tool do not update when logging or playing back data.

Issue #6(Added March 13)
LB7 full flash won't work in V8 pass-thru or V8 BBF - the E54_F.bix file was accidentally left out of the V8 installation.

Issue #7(Added March 13)
We have reports coming in that V8 BBF full-flashing of LLY controllers fails when attempted in a truck but works when attempted on a bench harness. We are still investigating.

Issue #8(Added March 15)
Saving files for "Remote Flashing" (i.e. for use with AutoCal) would previously set the "cannot view" and "cannot modify" flags in the saved file. RC10 isnot setting those flags correctly. Until we fix it, you will need to re-open the file in the V8 Scan and Tune software and set those flags manually if you want them set.

Issue #9(Added March 15)
LS1B full flash won't work in V8 pass-thru or V8 BBF - the LS1B1_F.bix and LS1B2_F.bix files were accidentally left out of the V8 installation.



Reporting Issues:
If you discover any problems/faults, please make a note of them in this thread.
For urgent or complicated issues, please create a support ticket here: http://support.efilive.com (http://support.efilive.com/)


What's new in RC10 (since RC9):
For a description of previous updates, please see the RC9 thread here:
http://forum.efilive.com/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=164092

Changes in RC10:




Fixed CMC/CMB VIN mismatch issue where a VIN change to a file in V7.5 would not show as changed in V8.
-
Added conversion option to convert (and backup) *.ctd files to *.ctz files on FlashScan/AutoCal devices.
-
Added Hardware, VIN License and Stream License management/upgrade features to the V8 software under the F7: Licenses option.
-
Updated calibrations for the following controllers: E37, E38, E40 and E67
-
LS1B and E54 full-flashing are now active they each display a warning similar to this:


If a full-flash procedure fails during a full flash of LS1B or E54 (LB7) DO NOT REMOVE POWER FROM THE PCM.


To recover, full-flash the PCM again using the V7.5 pass-through flashing software. The V7.5 pass-thru software automatically attempts to recover the failed PCM.
-



During BBF or pass-thru AutoCal will now self link to its master FlashScan device if it is not already linked to any FlashScan device. The self link process happens when the first attempt to flash a file is made. Instead of reporting error: "$0535 AutoCal is not yet linked to a FlashScan", the firmware automatically performs the link based on the [SECURITY]->Remote license number in the file being flashed.
-
File based security restrictions can now be modified/removed if the original FlashScan device is connected, that was connected when the security restrictions were added.
This option is not retrospective. Files created prior to RC10 with security restrictions active cannot be reset.
-
Fixed navigator showing VVE as already changed when first opened (due to cam angles being used to modify the VVE)
-
Stopped VVE cam angles going negative.
-
Fixed E39 VVE tables. (E39/E78 VVE tables are not yet available, see known issue #4 above).
-
Added PIDs



TCAWDC Turbocharger A Wastegate Duty Cycle
TCBWDC Turbocharger B Wastegate Duty Cycle
INSTFUEL Instantaneous Fuel Consumption
RCT Radiator Coolant Temperature
RPMPKOVR Engine RPM peak overspeed
FCSFUD Fuel Composition Sensor Frequency Undefaulted
BPRLP Brake Pedal Released Learned Position
TQACT1 Engine Torque Airflow
TQPRED Engine Torque Predicted
TQIMM Engine Torque Immediate
TQACT2 Engine Torque Actual
TQAXLPRED Axle Torque Predicted
TQAXLACT Axle Torque Actual
TQAXLCMD Axle Torque Commanded
TCBP Turbocharged Boost Pressure


Regards
The EFILive Development Team

Dieselman
March 10th, 2012, 06:56 PM
Thanks guys :cheers:

Duramax 6.6L
March 11th, 2012, 12:34 AM
Thank you for the update installing right now

FUBAR
March 11th, 2012, 02:31 AM
The Cummins DTC Enable/Disable 'GM' style list is much appreciated!! Thanks EFILive Team!

comnrailpwr
March 11th, 2012, 03:05 AM
So is this RC that we are looking for to tune deleted trucks? Dont have my laptop to check at the moment.

ecc_33
March 11th, 2012, 03:46 AM
yes it is jake :D

comnrailpwr
March 11th, 2012, 03:57 AM
Holla, thanks efi crew.

ecc_33
March 11th, 2012, 04:15 AM
how do you put the black box into the mode were you can program the firmware and bootblock iirc isn't there two buttons you hold down on the bb and it goes into dead pull mode.

Ira
March 11th, 2012, 05:37 AM
V8 Control Panel should know how to program the firmware and boot block without any help unless you still have firmware 2.04.72 or earlier.

But it's hold the Ctrl key while plugging in the USB cable.

Ira

ScarabEpic22
March 11th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Downloaded and installing now!

Just a suggestion, I like the idea behind the self-link an AC to the FS serial number. I have all my ACs linked already so I cant test this, but does it prompt the user before automatically linking? Maybe during the flash have the AC prompt the user with "This AutoCal has not been linked to a FlashScan device yet, would you like to link it now?" and the user can simply hit Yes or No. Just trying to think if someone accidently links it to the wrong serial number, their AC is all but worthless to them.

Blacky
March 11th, 2012, 07:40 AM
No, it doesn't ask.

I thought of making it ask, but it is difficult to ask a meaningful question in 2x8 characters of LCD display.
I could have asked "Link Now?" or "Link to FS2?" or something like that, but that would likely confuse a customer even more than not asking.

It will only link if the file they are flashing has been "Saved for AutoCal" and has the tuner's FlashScan license number in it. They only window of opportunity for linking to the wrong license number would be if the customer tried to flash in a file from another tuner that had also been "Saved for AutoCal" instead of flashing in the file supplied by the tuner who sold them their AutoCal, which is unlikely to be done by accident. If the user tries to flash in any other file (that has not been "Saved for AutoCal") they will still get the "This file is not linked to any AutoCal device." error.

Regards
Paul


Downloaded and installing now!

Just a suggestion, I like the idea behind the self-link an AC to the FS serial number. I have all my ACs linked already so I cant test this, but does it prompt the user before automatically linking? Maybe during the flash have the AC prompt the user with "This AutoCal has not been linked to a FlashScan device yet, would you like to link it now?" and the user can simply hit Yes or No. Just trying to think if someone accidently links it to the wrong serial number, their AC is all but worthless to them.

DoghouseDiesel
March 11th, 2012, 07:52 AM
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/Cumminalong/Miscellaneous/HappyMater.jpg

FUBAR
March 11th, 2012, 10:23 AM
F'ing Rich...lmao! You're always a character!!!

cmcz450
March 11th, 2012, 11:50 AM
^If I could find that image in 1920x1080 is would be my wallpaper

ScarabEpic22
March 11th, 2012, 12:12 PM
Haha awesome Rich, I watched it on TV the other night and remembered why I liked it so much all over again.

Makes sense Paul, that is a small chance which is a good thing. Just figured Id throw my .02 in there, but again you guys have already thought of it!

cmcz450
March 11th, 2012, 01:05 PM
download went smooth for me.

minytrker
March 11th, 2012, 02:16 PM
When will an official update be released? I havent been doing the RC's due to the risk of something going wrong. Is this safe for workshop users?

DoghouseDiesel
March 11th, 2012, 02:59 PM
F'ing Rich...lmao! You're always a character!!!

:anitoof:

GMPX
March 11th, 2012, 03:46 PM
When will an official update be released? I havent been doing the RC's due to the risk of something going wrong. Is this safe for workshop users?


We do not plan on releasing any more RC versions. We plan for this RC10 to be the stable release that will go live some time later this month.
...

Compcowboy
March 11th, 2012, 04:54 PM
Updated and flashed a truck today. Worked very well. Only thing i noticed was that it wont show the "CEL" or show any active codes in the scan tool but if you do the key trick it reads out a big list of code.

GMPX
March 11th, 2012, 06:47 PM
if you do the key trick it reads out a big list of code.
Key trick? What is that?

comnrailpwr
March 11th, 2012, 10:22 PM
Cycle the key from off to on 3 times ending in the on position. This will display stored codes in the dash where it displays the vehicles Milage.

Duramax 6.6L
March 12th, 2012, 12:42 AM
Just a little note, When you register the software there is a spelling error on the comfirmation pop-up.

It should be authorization. Image attached.



12775

comnrailpwr
March 12th, 2012, 12:49 AM
Somebody's picky lol. Just messin, I cant spell so I didn't catch the error.

Duramax 6.6L
March 12th, 2012, 04:33 AM
Somebody's picky lol. Just messin, I cant spell so I didn't catch the error.

I was not being picky:rolleyes:, I love what these guys at EFI are doing with the software. :banana:

LinearX
March 12th, 2012, 06:48 AM
Just a little note, When you register the software there is a spelling error on the comfirmation pop-up.

It should be authorization. Image attached.



12775


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/authorisation

I'd say they spelled it correctly for Australia. :D

ls1mike
March 12th, 2012, 07:02 AM
Everything is working great on my 2 computers. VERY excited for the full release!

JezzaB
March 12th, 2012, 09:40 AM
Has the E40 Boost VE scaling been fixed in this build?

Blacky
March 12th, 2012, 09:48 AM
Has the E40 Boost VE scaling been fixed in this build?
Ross tells me, yes it has been fixed.
Regards
Paul

GMPX
March 12th, 2012, 09:48 AM
Yes, it's been changed back to the two VE tables.

JezzaB
March 12th, 2012, 10:16 AM
Thanks for the reply guys. Thats great :)

FUBAR
March 12th, 2012, 11:06 AM
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/authorisation

I'd say they spelled it correctly for Australia. :D

I'm so jealous Ross and Cindy can say "whilst!" That sounds like a whole lot better way of describing a period of time around an event.

GMPX
March 12th, 2012, 11:13 AM
Our language with some local colloquialisms and a mix of Rhyming Slang (http://alldownunder.com/australian-quiz/aussie-rhyming-slang-2.htm), an outsider would question if we are all speaking English to begin with.
Now FUBAR, I heard some very interesting sentence structures in your neck of the woods that required me to really think about what the person just said. One of our favourites was a couple arguing over a credit card and she says to her partner "I already done did try that one", aka, "I've tried that one".

Duramax 6.6L
March 12th, 2012, 11:19 AM
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/authorisation

I'd say they spelled it correctly for Australia. :D

Well I learned something new today, that is so cool.

ls1mike
March 12th, 2012, 11:54 AM
Any idea why dashpage A won't work in the new release of 7.5? Not a big deal tried loading a few versions of it with no luck. Page B with all my data runs fine but not A. Figured I'd post it up.

joecar
March 12th, 2012, 12:00 PM
The Plural of Y'all



What is the plural of y'all? I asked this (innocently) at the end of a recent humor posting which dealt with misconceptions about Texas (http://kcbx.net/%7Etellswor/texas1.htm). Little did I know that I had opened the flood gates! I have received more email on this subject over the past few days than I care to mention. Everyone seems to have an answer to this question.

I received answers from Texans, non-Texans, wanna-be Texans, former Texans, people from Arkansas, New York (a transplanted Texan no doubt), Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, California, Oklahoma, among others and I even received a response from someone in Papua New Guinea.

Well, the answer to this question is one which should be shared, so here are the comments on the plural of y'all:

Many people indicated that y'all is already the plural form and provided the singular form which was variously (1) you'un (2) you-all (3) youins (4) yuse'all (5) yewins (6) yu's oll and (7) you'uns.

Some people contended that y'all is both plural and singular just as "you" can be used for both plural and singular, depending on the context. One Texan added that there "ain't no sense in wasting the energy making up two differ'nt words, is there?" Another added that Texans have "been talking like this since we were babies, so why let a few years of education mess up something natural?"

One person told me that the plural was y'ens (from "ye ones") and said that the information was from his English teacher (the teacher having a Masters in Linguistics and a PhD in English).

So, now it's time to announce the "official" plural of y'all (at least according to the various opinions of the Good Clean Fun list members). By a comment margin of at least 5 to 1, the plural of y'all is:


ALL Y'ALL


Now, 'nuf said! I thank y'all and all y'all can can git back to yer chores.


:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

joecar
March 12th, 2012, 12:01 PM
Any idea why dashpage A won't work in the new release of 7.5? Not a big deal tried loading a few versions of it with no luck. Page B with all my data runs fine but not A. Figured I'd post it up.Are you monitoring (yellow button) or recording (red button)...?

Blacky
March 12th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Any idea why dashpage A won't work in the new release of 7.5? Not a big deal tried loading a few versions of it with no luck. Page B with all my data runs fine but not A. Figured I'd post it up.
Thanks for the heads up. There is definitely a problem there. I'm looking into it.

Regards
Paul

ls1mike
March 12th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Tried it both ways. Thanks for looking into it!

FUBAR
March 12th, 2012, 12:29 PM
Ross and Joe, LOL!

06redram
March 12th, 2012, 02:14 PM
Paul with the new release I see in DTC table that we able to do injector cutout. Tell me that is so for the 5.9 and the 6.7

GMPX
March 12th, 2012, 02:52 PM
No, the DTC table doesn't control injector cut as in being able to command each injector on or off in real time like the Star Scan could. It just shuts off DTC's from being reported.
So like your injector DTC's (P0201, P0202 etc), if you get a fault with an injector you could disable that fault using that table (btw, you wouldn't want to do that).

06redram
March 12th, 2012, 03:15 PM
Thanks Paul

macca33
March 12th, 2012, 10:28 PM
Just a little note, When you register the software there is a spelling error on the comfirmation pop-up.

It should be authorization. Image attached.



12775



For those who speak the Queen's English, the spelling is quite satisfactory. Please pass the tea and scones!!!

Blacky
March 13th, 2012, 09:20 AM
Having read all the (amusing) posts about spelling in this thread, I have to say that I do have a tendency to use the US spelling in the software because:
1) US spelling makes more sense (to me anyway).
2) Non-US customers are accustomed to seeing US spelling.

So the upshot is, technically it is not a spelling mistake but it will most likely get changed to "authorization" :).

Regards
Paul


Just a little note, When you register the software there is a spelling error on the comfirmation pop-up.

It should be authorization. Image attached.



12775

Rhino79
March 13th, 2012, 10:29 AM
For you a6 tuners a good start point on the e38 torque model table is 10-15% As mentioned I noticed a large jump in reported tq. Even from 10% to 15% there was about 50_100 Nm difference. Don't get to short with shift times below 2500 rpm or it will start to flare after the adaptives learn. A good start is around .3 sec. Above 2500 I blend down to .15 by 4000 rpm and it seems to follow throttle input nicely as far as firmness. Thanks guys for putting these tables in play. Much easier to mess with and quicker.

The Alchemist
March 13th, 2012, 01:22 PM
Having read all the (amusing) posts about spelling in this thread, I have to say that I do have a tendency to use the US spelling in the software because:
1) US spelling makes more sense (to me anyway).
2) Non-US customers are accustomed to seeing US spelling.

So the upshot is, technically it is not a spelling mistake but it will most likely get changed to "authorization" :).

Regards
Paul

Has this been authorised ? :)

Blacky
March 14th, 2012, 03:36 PM
Just a heads up for anyone using this release.
I've added a bunch of "known issues" that have been reported over the past few days.
Please take a quick look at them (in my first post) so that you don't get caught out by any of them.

Regards
Paul

izaks
March 14th, 2012, 07:26 PM
Too late !
Is there anyway to reverse the firmware update, so I can fall back to the last working SW ?

joecar
March 15th, 2012, 02:41 AM
If the firmware from an ealier RC has the same version as RC10 (2.7.24) then you can flash that.

tokymon
March 19th, 2012, 04:12 AM
any luck on getting the scanner dash page a to work again

Blacky
March 19th, 2012, 06:39 AM
any luck on getting the scanner dash page a to work again

Yes, we've found and fixed the fault, plus a number of other issues and will be releasing an update as soon as we can.
I am planning on the update being ready tonight, but things can and do go wrong so it may not be as soon as that.

Regards
Paul

Highlander
March 20th, 2012, 07:52 AM
Damn... great work Paul and Ross!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you have any ETA to open any V7 PID file in v8 and save for bbl?

Blacky
March 20th, 2012, 07:56 AM
Damn... great work Paul and Ross!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you have any ETA to open any V7 PID file in v8 and save for bbl?

You can do that like this:

Load the PID file into V7
Highlight the PIDs you want to transfer in the [F8 PIDs] tab page.
Select the menu option Edit->Copy for export to V8

Goto V8 BBX window and right click in the green section and select Paste.

Note: Calculated PIDs are not copied.

Regards
Paul

IdahoRob
March 20th, 2012, 09:44 AM
Appears after this RC10 was loaded, anytime I save a tune in V8 it is flagged as private even though I don't have permissions>secure file checked.

Blacky
March 20th, 2012, 09:47 AM
Appears after this RC10 was loaded, anytime I save a tune in V8 it is flagged as private even though I don't have permissions>secure file checked.

Do you mean saved with V7? There is a bug in RC10 V7 that does that. It is fixed in the next update due out today (if all goes well with testing).

Regards
Paul

IdahoRob
March 20th, 2012, 09:51 AM
Nope, saved in ctz not checking permissions, it's marked private and I can't open in v7 to check the work.

Blacky
March 20th, 2012, 12:30 PM
Nope, saved in ctz not checking permissions, it's marked private and I can't open in v7 to check the work.

Hmmm not sure what you mean by "saved in ctz". Both V7 and V8 can save in *.ctz format.
V7.5 will set the privacy flags when saving as *.ctz.

I don't think V8 will, at least I can't make it save with privacy settings - unless they are already set from previously saving it with V7.

Regards
Paul

Blacky
March 20th, 2012, 03:01 PM
I've posted the RC10 update that fixes a bunch of issues.
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?18780-Release-Candidate-10-%28updated%29-Mar-21-2012

Regards
Paul

jfdicurt
March 24th, 2012, 08:01 PM
I just installed the RC 10 version. I noticed something unexpected on the paste w multiply 50% function in the tune tool. I created a MAF Ben map in the scanner and did a copy with labels. Then I went to the tuner software and opened the MAF Frequency table and did the multiply with labels 50% function. If memory serves me the previous versions modified the values by 50% of the percentage change. In other words if my BEN in a cell was .98 instead of modifying the target cell by 2% it would modify by 1%. Instead this version actually makes the value 50% of what it was before. Is this correct or is my memory failing me.
Thanks for great software by the way!

Boost
March 24th, 2012, 10:18 PM
So, does this have '12 Cruze tuning now? :music_whistling_1: :mrgreen:

Blacky
March 24th, 2012, 11:14 PM
I just installed the RC 10 version. I noticed something unexpected on the paste w multiply 50% function in the tune tool. I created a MAF Ben map in the scanner and did a copy with labels. Then I went to the tuner software and opened the MAF Frequency table and did the multiply with labels 50% function. If memory serves me the previous versions modified the values by 50% of the percentage change. In other words if my BEN in a cell was .98 instead of modifying the target cell by 2% it would modify by 1%. Instead this version actually makes the value 50% of what it was before. Is this correct or is my memory failing me.
Thanks for great software by the way!

Your memory is correct. The "paste and multiply" was changed in one of the early RC version. Unfortunately the "special case" for the BEN factor corrections was lost.
It will be put back in asap - as a new paste option (probably something like "Paste-> Error Correction").

Thanks for the heads up.

Regards
Paul

GMPX
March 25th, 2012, 09:19 AM
So, does this have '12 Cruze tuning now? :music_whistling_1: :mrgreen:
Nope, nearly done on that though, such a pain these new ECM's are.

joecar
March 26th, 2012, 05:17 AM
Your memory is correct. The "paste and multiply" was changed in one of the early RC version. Unfortunately the "special case" for the BEN factor corrections was lost.
It will be put back in asap - as a new paste option (probably something like "Paste-> Error Correction").

Thanks for the heads up.

Regards
PaulHi Paul,

When you put this back in, you may want to write a small blurb on how to use it (previous incarnations of this had "special" behaviour depending on the value).

:)

Highlander
March 26th, 2012, 05:08 PM
Thank you paul!,!

Boost
March 27th, 2012, 11:52 PM
Nope, nearly done on that though, such a pain these new ECM's are.

Yesss! My, 2 cents - your edge in 1.4t tuning right now over the "competition" reminds me of the LBZ Duramax situation. I was shopping for the "other" in early '06 and you were smashing them in support for new models so it was a no-brainer.