HPT has announced LS2/MPVI available this month

[Scooter70]

Being an ex-HPT customer I was waiting to hear details before repurchasing HPT or switching to EFILive. Now that the HPT guys have announced details (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4672), I'm more interested in EFILive.

The one trump card that HPT had over you guys is the unlimited year/model licensing. However, when they added LS2/7 vehicles, the unlimited license costs significantly more than a single VIN. They have implimented a credit system where individual Gen3 vehicles are 2 credits and unlimited year/model is 6. LS2 and LS7 (Gen4) are 4 credits each and unlimited is 20! You get 8 credits on initial purchase and can purchase more at $49 each.

So, what are the thoughts of EFI users? There are quite a few HPT users who aren't pleased with the new licensing scheme. I feel that was the one thing that made them different. I think they leveled the playing field all on their own.

-Matt

[TAQuickness]

Being an ex-HPT customer I was waiting to hear details before repurchasing HPT or switching to EFILive. Now that the HPT guys have announced details (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4672), I'm more interested in EFILive.

The one trump card that HPT had over you guys is the unlimited year/model licensing. However, when they added LS2/7 vehicles, the unlimited license costs significantly more than a single VIN. They have implimented a credit system where individual Gen3 vehicles are 2 credits and unlimited year/model is 6. LS2 and LS7 (Gen4) are 4 credits each and unlimited is 20! You get 8 credits on initial purchase and can purchase more at $49 each.

So, what are the thoughts of EFI users? There are quite a few HPT users who aren't pleased with the new licensing scheme. I feel that was the one thing that made them different. I think they leveled the playing field all on their own.

-Matt

We are EFILive users for a very good reason.

[Scooter70]

Care to elaborate?

[Dirk Diggler]

The constant customer support, the interface is way better, BB logging a standard, new/useful features added all the time, custom operating systems for both LS1 and Diesels and many more thngs comming down the pipe esp with their new cable comming out that will support Ls2 vehicles. IMHO there is no resason not to have EFILive and I have had all three softwares. After beig shafted on the 1.7 - 2.0 (plus Live did everything 2.0 did from inception so there was no reason for me to pay the 99) upgrade they wont be getting another red cent from me and their latest pricing scheme seals the deal for me

You can dload the scanner and the tuner and play around with it for a little while you will soon start to see why a few of us have converted and havent looked back.

[TAQuickness]

Care to elaborate?

Not really. I don't have many positive words about HPT.

[Tordne]

Care to elaborate?

Firstly I've never been an HPT customer so can't validate first hand most people annoyances.

What I see as a EFILive customer is what all have already said, and what I see is fundamentally important (second only to the quality of the product). And that is the amazing support that we all get from the like of Paul and Ross day to day. For example.. I enquired about a DFCO state PID not to long ago. Guess what, this is going to be in the next release :)

We have numerous custom operating systems available free and anyone with a Commercial or Workshop has unlimited access to those and free updates for all product for life (excluding hardware interfaces).

Those are just a couple of this that immediately spring to mind.

Cheers,

[joecar]

Paul and Ross work their butts off, and yet we still get upgrade pricing that is fair and honest;
I like being treated fairly and honestly, it makes me feel good.

And, as Andew already said, their support can't be matched by anyone.

And, the product itself is very professional looking (and acting) and easy to use.

And it's users are more relaxed and don't feel the need to vehemently defend the product.

(I have never used HPTuners, but I've researched it and others alot).

Cheers
Joe
:cheers:

[Bruce Melton]

Hey and it is finally USB--High Tech!

[Tordne]

Hey and it is finally USB--High Tech!

Yeah :muahaha:. Maybe we ca show them up (again) and make V2 Bluetooth enabled (hint hint Paul/Ross).

[redhardsupra]

i'm in the same boat, i've always seen efi as a better product, with a worse licencing. now that hpt made their licensing even more horrible, there's really no reason for me to deal with their shit no more.
they promised a lot with hpt2, and the practiacal differences were minute. now they screwed up the last good part about it.
way to go jackasses, piss us off, see how long we're gonna stick around!

so anyone wants to buy a hpt with 98-02 fbody licences? :)

[Black02SS]

Being an ex-HPT customer.... I can't recall every hearing or seeing this "Being an ex-EFILive customer. There is a reason people have switched.


i'm in the same boat, i've always seen efi as a better product, with a worse licencing. now that hpt made their licensing even more horrible, there's really no reason for me to deal with their shit no more.
they promised a lot with hpt2, and the practiacal differences were minute. now they screwed up the last good part about it.
way to go jackasses, piss us off, see how long we're gonna stick around!

so anyone wants to buy a hpt with 98-02 fbody licences? :)
I find it funnny that all you guys that LOVED hpt before and said that it was better and blah, blah, are finally seeing the truth and realizing that it isn't. Its sad that several feel the same way you do, but can't express their opinions due to their "status".

;)

[ws6togo]

I am new to the EFI tuning (never used HPT). I wuld say from my limited experience I have had a couple of people go out of their way to help me understand how to use this software. IMO it is very clean, professional, and has A LOT of functionality. So when you have Great software that has free updates/patches, the ability to upgrade OS (again for free), very reliable hardware,....and BEST OF ALL THE SUPPORT THAT PEOPLE PROVIDE IS TOTALLY A++++++++++++++ (YOU GUYS KNOW WHO YOU ARE) !!!!!!!!!!!

[joecar]

so anyone wants to buy a hpt with 98-02 fbody licences? :)
I bet someone will snap it up on ebay. :beer:

[GMPX]

To be honest I've not studied their new pricing scheme. We have not changed our prices since we released unlike HPT, what 3 or 4 times now?, each time shafting those who were 'loyal' to them and in the end they are just getting closer to our pricing setup.

When we were doing our pricing we considered all aspects of the industry.
The workshop who pays $6980 for unlimited LS1 / Duramax with custom O.S's is good value as most tuning shops will (should) charge at least $600+ for a full 2 or 3 bar tune, the investment return will come back pretty fast and they know this is a once off fee with no hidden surprises.

Then there is the workshop who cannot afford the $6980 outlay, that is where we came up with the pay as you go scheme based on the commercial license that allows you to pay off a workshop version whilst you are making money from the product with the idea that is it 'only' $99 to tune another vehicle. I think that is a fair price in anyones language.
Guys, just think back to the days of LS1Edit!!.

Then of course there is the individual user who just wants to tune their own car, $699 entry price for that.

With our V2 hardware will come new pricing (in your favor) as we have restructured our workshop level prices to suit any additional future platform support.

Cheers,
Ross

[Scooter70]

The point of my initial post wasn't to start an HPT vs EFILive war. We've had enough of those on LS1Tech (and they always get locked). My point was to show the EFI guys what has happened in the HPT world, so that the same won't happen over here. I was also hoping to get some discussion going with Ross and Paul and maybe get some insight as to how FlashscanV2 and the LS2 support is going to be better than HPT.

Honestly, I think it's interesting that RedHardSupra came over here as he has been very helpful to all in pushing the development of HPT and discovering some of the intricacies of the LSx PCM.

That's all for now.

-Matt

Edit: I see Ross posted while I was typing my post. Thanks Ross.

[GMPX]

Matt, I realize your post was not to incite a HPT bashing session, but unfortunately it is probably bound to happen outside of LS1Tech much like there is probably EFILive bashing over on HPTuners?

Of course we are working hard on the LS2 / LS7 ECM's and those nasty Trans computers, but we also have been chipping away at some other options recently, so we needed to restructure our pricing, I don't know when but details will be released soon to give those sitting on the fence a bit more to think about.

If there is one thing I've learned in life, price should not be the major deciding factor in any purchase (unless you are hard up for cash!).

Cheers,
Ross

[Black02SS]

The point of my initial post wasn't to start an HPT vs EFILive war. We've had enough of those on LS1Tech (and they always get locked). My point was to show the EFI guys what has happened in the HPT world, so that the same won't happen over here. I was also hoping to get some discussion going with Ross and Paul and maybe get some insight as to how FlashscanV2 and the LS2 support is going to be better than HPT.

Honestly, I think it's interesting that RedHardSupra came over here as he has been very helpful to all in pushing the development of HPT and discovering some of the intricacies of the LSx PCM.

That's all for now.

-Matt

Edit: I see Ross posted while I was typing my post. Thanks Ross. I understand where you are coming from, but what I think many fail to realize is that LS1Tech has a "special" interest in HPT and the threads over there are severely sensored in favor of HPT. If we have an opportunity (where ever it is) to express facts and not be worried about the thread being closed or deleted due to it not looking good for HPT, then we owe it to the community. Its not about opinions, its about hard facts and some of the the HPT guys don't want you to have all the correct information.

If someone does the math, they will realize that the pricing now between HPT and Live is pretty competitive... Sure will make things interesting.

:cheers:

[TAQuickness]

Matt - I don't know if you are a Live customer or not. Either way, you've found your way here, and I'd like to be the first to welcome you to a bigger better world.

[Scooter70]

Chad, I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I am a moderator at LS1Tech and there's no "special" interests going on. (PSJ and Keith are friends but there is no special treatment being given out.) The Tuning mods and the admins just aren't tolerating the "bashing" threads where it's just arguing. It doesn't help anyone to keep those threads going. My usual post in those threads is "Both HPT and EFI are the best out there and will get the job done. Compare the licensing and see which one works better for you." Unfortunately for HPT, they changed the licensing scheme this time around. Of course, the pricing between the two is competitive, so you need to find other diferentiators to make a personal decision.

TAquickness, I'm not a customer (yet, maybe). I'm here to try and find out more to make a decision as to which to buy. Thanks.

-Matt

[TAQuickness]

Matt - If it's any help...

The LSx tuning market has 2 very capable products available. Live has a bell today, HPT has a whistle tomorrow and visa versa. That is the nature of competition. However, there is a lot to be said in the way EFILive Flashscan not only entered the tuning market, but how EFILive Flashscan blew the doors off the competition. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

As far as deciding which product to purchase, I challange you to dig up all the EFILive/HPT threads on tech (will be tough with the limited search) and read all the sponsor posts. Pay no attention to what the customers are saying, just read what is posted by Live and HPT.

I believe the customer is always right, even when they are wrong. I refuse to do business with any company that does not heed to this philosophy.

[Extinct]

The decision maker for me was the black box. Since then, I'm more excited about DMax tuning than the LS2 (smart move on Live's part if you ask me - just do the #'s). Am looking forward to more new stuff form Live too (wife is getting a Charger, and I am definitely buying one of those Challengers - hint, hint).

[ZL1Killa]

i have got to tell this because it has been eating me up inside since I have been helping my friend tune his car!!! mwahahahaha

My friend has HPTuners, and a LC-1 wideband.

Well I have EFILIVE v7.3 and a lm-1 wideband.

He CAN'T CONNECT TO HIS WIDEBAND AS HE WOULD HAVE TO BUY THE EXTRA PIECE

I already can connect after purchasing the lm-1 or ANY wideband supported by EFILIVE....I have now helped 2 people in this situation and got their SD tunes looking good on AFR @ part throttle

I'm still learning EFILIVE but everyday I learn something new, some shortcut...something that makes it easier to work with.....or what tables to change to get a desired effect simply by posting or messaging certain people up here...all of you know who you are.

AND HANDS DOWN TO THE WRITER OF THE CODE OF EFILIVE!!!!! AWESOME JOB!!! never seen a tuning program that can do SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much!! and have SOOOO many shortcuts

[The_Alchemist]

The more I read about EFI live, the more excited I get. Right now I don't have a laptop, and after reading that once flashscan is released, I won't need one, just sealed my decision.

Hopefully it will be sooner rather later.

Brien

[Tordne]

The more I read about EFI live, the more excited I get. Right now I don't have a laptop, and after reading that once flashscan is released, I won't need one, just sealed my decision.

Hopefully it will be sooner rather later.

Brien

Just to clarify for other potential forum visitors that may not know otherwise, this relates to the upcoming V2 FlashScan interface that has the ability to flash tunes (and other functionality) without the need for a laptop. You still do require a PC (laptop, desktop, whatever) to actually manipulate the tables/calibrations, and then transfer to V2 interface to flash into car.

Cheers,

[The_Alchemist]

Just to clarify for other potential forum visitors that may not know otherwise, this relates to the upcoming V2 FlashScan interface that has the ability to flash tunes (and other functionality) without the need for a laptop. You still do require a PC (laptop, desktop, whatever) to actually manipulate the tables/calibrations, and then transfer to V2 interface to flash into car.

Cheers,

I completely understand that and thanks for the clarification. I had bought a new dell desktop about 4 months ago consisting of dual core 3.0 ghz proccessor with 2GIG of memory, 100 GIG HD, and a 19" LCD monitor. So the thought of needing to buy a laptop didn't sit too well and I was really happy about being able to hook up the scanner, take the car to work and back, logging data, then hooking it up to the desktop to make the neccesary changes and then flash in the new program.

This is the way it should be, rather than sitting in the car balancing a laptop trying to work.

:cheers: :thankyou2: Oh yeah and you guys.... :rockon:

[Tordne]

I completely understand that and thanks for the clarification. I had bought a new dell desktop about 4 months ago consisting of dual core 3.0 ghz proccessor with 2GIG of memory, 100 GIG HD, and a 19" LCD monitor. So the thought of needing to buy a laptop didn't sit too well and I was really happy about being able to hook up the scanner, take the car to work and back, logging data, then hooking it up to the desktop to make the neccesary changes and then flash in the new program.

This is the way it should be, rather than sitting in the car balancing a laptop trying to work.

LOL.. That PC should be fine for EFILive ;).

My wife is the biggest beneficiary of me updating to V2 when it comes out cause then she doesn't have to hold the laptop :muahaha:. The longer than 20 min black box logging is going to be totally awesome as well!

[Black02SS]

LOL.. That PC should be fine for EFILive ;).

My wife is the biggest beneficiary of me updating to V2 when it comes out cause then she doesn't have to hold the laptop :muahaha:. The longer than 20 min black box logging is going to be totally awesome as well!
I bet. Now, how many flashes are you going to have on this interface Andrew?? ;)

[ringram]

I wonder if V2 will allow differnt pid selections?

That would be great, as the current one means messing about to save the pids before logging and if you want to change, its a return to the PC scenario. Not easy when you are away on the trip and want to log idle or something other than whats saved..

[joecar]

Just to clarify for other potential forum visitors that may not know otherwise, this relates to the upcoming V2 FlashScan interface that has the ability to flash tunes (and other functionality) without the need for a laptop. You still do require a PC (laptop, desktop, whatever) to actually manipulate the tables/calibrations, and then transfer to V2 interface to flash into car.

Cheers, I refer to it as "Black Box Flashing". :notacrook:

[Tordne]

I bet. Now, how many flashes are you going to have on this interface Andrew?? ;)

How many flashes on V2? Good question :exactly:.

Actually I installed the OTRCAI this morning before going to work (after getting in at 2am from the airport) and the IAT temps seem to be 1000% better. So I may not need to flash as much to chase the damn IAT's around :banana: :banana:.

[Scooter70]

Actually I installed the OTRCAI this morning before going to work (after getting in at 2am from the airport) and the IAT temps seem to be 1000% better. So I may not need to flash as much to chase the damn IAT's around :banana: :banana:.

Got any pics or links? Over here we're always looking for solutions to high IATs and I haven't seen any OTRCAIs that don't require aftermarket hoods. I think there's a couple in developent though.

Back to the original topic: I don't think the other guys can do "black box flashing", just logging (and it only has 6MB onboard memory with no card slot.

[Tordne]

Got any pics or links? Over here we're always looking for solutions to high IATs and I haven't seen any OTRCAIs that don't require aftermarket hoods. I think there's a couple in developent though.

This unit is only for a Holden vehicle. I assume that you being in "Motor City" would be Detroit, right? From the people with F Bodies etc. the lids seems to give pretty good IAT temps from stock. The problem with the Holden stock air box is that it gets its air source from under the hood and then has an intake tube that runs across the top of the radiator further affecting the IAT temps :(.

I'll have a pic in the next couple of days (when I've tidied up the install), but so far the resultant average IAT temps have dropped from approx 35*C (95*F) to 25*C (77*F), ambient temp is generally around 23*C (74*F). So basically A LOT better :)

[Scooter70]

Yes, Motor City = Detroit. However, your Holden ~= my GTO. We have the same issues as you do regarding IATs. ;)

[Tordne]

Yes, Motor City = Detroit. However, your Holden ~= my GTO. We have the same issues as you do regarding IATs. ;)

A very good point :exactly:. Well I am the man to talk to then as I have had now 3 intakes on this car, and 2 different intake tubes :bash:.

The OTRCAI that I got actually comes from a company in Australia called G & D Performance (http://www.gdperformance.com.au/). Their website is going to be updated in the next little while and they don't have any info on this unit.

Another popular unit one from a company called Power Torque (can't find their website).

The thing that I liked more about my unit is that it actually its down in front of the radiator a bit and therefore gets more direct airflow from the front of the car. The Power Torque and most other units still sit sort of on top of the radiator. They basically all yield very good results. I have only installed mine yesterday morning and driven the car twice, but I can already see the direct benefits against IAT, and the additional power that the colder charge allows ;).

Cheers,

[ringram]

Well cool bud, I was convinced the otrcai was the best bet. I still havnt got one yet though! Missed out when I was down there... Waiting for the new Orssom ones now.. Apparently 2 new models. I think one full width one that looks tidy and one shorter one.

They have a model for the late model Monaro's/GTO's etc too.

[Scooter70]

Very cool. Thanks for the info.

[Tordne]

Well cool bud, I was convinced the otrcai was the best bet. I still havnt got one yet though! Missed out when I was down there... Waiting for the new Orssom ones now.. Apparently 2 new models. I think one full width one that looks tidy and one shorter one.

They have a model for the late model Monaro's/GTO's etc too.

Now I just need to work out how to cut the stock black plastic radiator cover to fit around the OTRCAI so that it all looks nice again :).

You will be astounded with the difference!!! Symon should definitely get one as well.

[ringram]

I saw a nice job on another website somewhere.

Basically use the intake as a template, cut the shroud, then get some rubber seal like for doors etc, but to slide over the raw edge of the cut radiator cover. It looked really good.

I cant remember where I saw it, maybe ls1.com.au. Ok found it http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=51227