timming

[chance cobb]

what are guys going to for max timing ? just want to kinda get a base line for when i hit the dyno soon. also i thought some one posted a calculator for finding your max timing but i couldnt find it ?

[2007 5.9]

Without dyno, I don't go over 25* max

[chance cobb]

ok thanks . i am only at 22 right now

[noff]

25* for me. heres the link for the timing calculator. theres also good video on there how to use it, and tuning info. if the link dont work let me know ill email it to you

http://www.latuning.com/wordpress/?page_id=202

[700kenny]

I am at 30 degrees. Anyone running more?

[chance cobb]

did you dyno tune to get that high ?

[FUBAR]

I talked to a well known dyno Queen tuner (has multiple EFI YouTube videos posted) about running lots of timing and I was surprised just how much he was running on the 5.9L's given their setups. I was running 27* but was having issues keeping it cool running the 1/4 mile. Jacked it up to 31* and brought down the temps but had to take a couple degrees out at 22-2600ish RPM (when the truck up shifted) because you could hear the motor just sound nasty (not good) because the CP3 couldn't provide rail pressure in that range. But I do have a REAL pump on the way that should take care of that. I'm a bit leery too since I'm running 45~psi on stock valve springs/head bolts.

[FUBAR]

FYI, I'm running that time with ~120hp or 45% nozzles and a 2800uS @ 22.5k psi fuel pressure. Once I get a REAL pump, I'm gonna try 24k psi rail and see what she does as far as temp and lower RPM range I was stating about above. But I really need to strap her down to a dyno to be honest like Les said.

[chance cobb]

cool thanks for the info

[codymorri]

password for the timing calculator?

[noff]

7777

[codymorri]

Alright thanks!

[AFTERMATH DIESEL]

12843
password for the timing calculator?

The timing calculator is built into the software now

[codymorri]

I seen that one but how do you know where you want it as far a percentage before or after TDC?

[skneeland]

I seen that one but how do you know where you want it as far a percentage before or after TDC?


thats entirely up to you ;)

[smslyguy]

I am at 30 degrees. Anyone running more?

I'm running 29 degrees.

[2007 5.9]

Keep on mind guys...as you increase timing to cool egts...your increasing piston crown temps!!!

There is a point where it's too much.

[FUBAR]

Ah heck! "More the merrier!" IIRC someone from somewhere that sells cheetah hair driers and tunes said running 31* or more is perfectly fine...come to think of it, what's Smarty's timing values??

[DoghouseDiesel]

Smarty's only get 25*'s of timing due to not changing the limiter. They call for a lot more, but never achieve it.

Keep in mind, timing needs to be related to RPM's. The higher the RPM's, the more you can run.

And, like Les said, more timing looks good on the EGT gauge, but thst heat is transferred from going out the exhaust to being applied to the piston crown.

Until I'm in the upper RPM's, I keep the timing pretty conservative (i.e. low single digits). Jacking up the timing in the lower RPM's isn't really needed. Keep it low to get the turbos moving and then run it up in the higher RPM ranges.

[anarchydiesel]

smarty calls for 32-33, but remember that pesky max timing limiter holds him to 25. I run up to 30, but that is only at 4000 rpm and higher. My tunes usually max out around 27-28 for a stockish truck.

[anarchydiesel]

I got tree'd

[DoghouseDiesel]

I got tree'd

BOOYAH!

:anitoof:

[DoghouseDiesel]

Also, keep in mind, high timing also means high cylinder pressures.

Those of you running stock head bolts don't want to run these elevated timing numbers.

On trucks that are running stock head bolts and / or don't turn higher RPM's, I normally don't go higher than 20*.

[2007 5.9]

Also, keep in mind, high timing also means high cylinder pressures.

Those of you running stock head bolts don't want to run these elevated timing numbers.

On trucks that are running stock head bolts and / or don't turn higher RPM's, I normally don't go higher than 20*.


Unless your an idiot like me....700hp, 25*, 55psi, 4500rpms sled pulling...on STOCK bolts.

Yes Im an idiot...but I want to find the limits!! And I am positive that conservative timing in the low end has prolonged their lives.

[DoghouseDiesel]

Yeah, but you're running 25* at higher RPM's, which is just fine.

Like ya said, it's that low RPM timing that beats the crap out of the head gasket and rings.

I do the same thing on Garmon's 6.7. It's still on stock head bolts, but the pistons are cut .100". But it still has a spec'd BW466 over a BW510. Now, we just need the RPM's to wind that sucka up.

[sheldons 5.9]

I am trying to build a tune for max mpg. So I am cutting the pulse width down from stock and increasing timing in the my cruising range. I have a Gear Vendors overdrive on my 06 5.9 because I have the G56 manual. I also have a pdr cam installed and 50hp ddp nozzles. AFE Intake and Exhaust, but stock everything else including head bolts. I am targeting the Rpms for cruising which are like 1700 at 75mph.

What would be the max safe timing for the 1550 - 1800 rpm range from 10 - 45 mm3?

I have been running the timing tables from the smarty, which has pretty high low end timing. I figured that there are 1000's of people running that without any problem. I also have the 3rd event erased, so that cuts the amount of fuel. When towing 10k, my coolant temps don't go over 205.

Just wanted some input from you all. Would dyno tuning be beneficial to achieving the max possible mpg using timing and whatever other tricks there are?

[2007 5.9]

There is kind of a misnomer in the diesel world...

Diesels are MOST efficient when closest to peak TQ....I get better MPG at 21-2300rpm cruising then I do at 15-1700...the motor is lugged down that low and actually has to work harder to maintain speed then when sitting at its most efficient RPM.

These trucks cant be treated like gassers...

Sure you are running MORE rpm but if you log commanded mm3 at say 70mph in either O/D or 3rd gear...Id be willing to bet that in 3rd gear, you are actually commanding LESS mm3 than you are holding 70mph in O/D...

Difference between gassers and diesels...we can run EXTREMELY lean AFR's, up to and over 100:1...which allow very little fuel to be used at higher rpm..where with a gasser...14.7:1 is as high as its supposed to get...which means you are using fuel at all load conditions, so lower rpm is needed to actually use LESS gas.

I know its not the answer you asked for, but it can help you some.

To help in your question...I typically run my MPG timing in the 0-45mm3@1500-2000rpm zone, as high as 10*, but usually close to 7.5-8.3*

[DoghouseDiesel]

If you're building a mileage tune, I don't suggest cutting your pulsewidth. Doing that reduces engine torque. I suggest looking at your rail pressure instead.

Anyway you look at it, it will ALWAYS take XXX amount of HP to move XXX amount of weight at a given speed. If you can reduce the fuel delivered, but not make a huge dent in the torque, you'll get a bit more efficiency.

Bringing that rail pressure down in the cruising ranges will get you a little more bang for the buck than reducing duration will.

[tinman]

Rich can you comment on the theory that increased rail pressure at cruising will increase atomization and perhaps a slight increase in timing (higher pressure, more fuel sooner) to help mileage. I am running a max of 9 * of timing in the cruising range now. I played with the rail pressure a little raising it from about 17.5 to about 18.5 to 19 just to see if it would made a difference. So far I haven't demonstrated a convincing effect good or bad.