bring back fish tuning.

[AllOutPerformance]

Yes
no

THis post has been edited by EFILive (March 30, 2102) to add the following disclaimer:

EFILive did not start this poll. This poll was started by the forum user: AllOutPerformance.

Contrary to some comments, EFILive is not requesting advice from the public regarding this situation.
EFILive's decision is final and while this poll may allow some people to vent their frustrations, it is not being and will not be used by EFILive in any way to influence business decsions.

Regards
Paul Blackmore
EFILive Limited

[cindy@efilive]

I voted NO.

Because Robyn and Ira are really nice people, it's been immensely difficult process for all of us to go through. Each time something goes wrong, we've allowed 'one more chance' so as not to travel this path. Making the decision to separate is something we've agonized over. The truth of the matter is there are only so many 'one more chances' that can be offered. We truly believe we exhausted every possible option and tried our absolute best to get it resolved amicably over an extended period of time (Going back long before Cummins was even on the horizon).

While the side you see is a positive one with your relationship with Fish Tuning, I only wish that is what happened behind the scenes too. Unfortunately that wasn't the case, and we needed to get our house in order. We've lost too many development hours trying to fix something that clearly can't be fixed. To continue would be to the detriment of EFILive. We've said we won't disclose the details of the issues at hand, and unfortunately that puts us on the back foot given your strong feelings for Robyn and Ira. Please understand that there are many facets of this decision that will never be disclosed.

There is no question that Fish Tuning's support and service that they extended to their reseller network was anything other than first class - this wasn't the issue at hand.

Cheers
Cindy

[AllOutPerformance]

Im pretty sure I know the issue.sounds to me another dealer got upset about a customer going somewhere else?
In my years of doing this.if you handle your biz correctly customers will never leave or look for better service.because at the end of the day its all the same product and that being said people will go where there treated the best.

[cindy@efilive]

Im pretty sure I know the issue.sounds to me another dealer got upset about a customer going somewhere else?
In my years of doing this.if you handle your biz correctly customers will never leave or look for better service.because at the end of the day its all the same product and that being said people will go where there treated the best.

I do know the issueS, and can assure you that you have incorrect information.

Cheers
Cindy

[Blacky]

I voted NO as well. Not because I want to see Fish Tuning gone, but because it is in the best interests of EFILive and the majority of EFILive resellers and end users.
Regards
Paul

[Bosephos]

I do know the issueS, and can assure you that you have incorrect information.

Cheers
Cindy

Cindy... speaking for all of us FORMER Fish Tuning customers I think you and the other members at EFI Live owe us all a real reason for dropping Fish Tuning. I had 3 inquiries today for tuning & an autocal sell... Now that my EFI Live distributor is no longer, I had to turn that business away. Your decision has cost me money and some embarrassment and so I just want to know why? We get that you claim to give chance after chance...but what were these reasons Ira & Robyn needed a second chance? Hmm? I seriously doubt that you will tell us... EFI Live has taken a turn for the worst and I doubt that you would even offer me the discount that Fish Tuning did formerly...and I KNOW you couldn't touch the quick response and technical assistance that they provided...7 days a week... and during our business hours in the US... EFI Live has a created a black eye for itself today and lost a truly wonderful distributor... I'm not even writing this based on any friendship I've had with Robyn & Ira, but from the unmatched support and service that they have provided. As I said earlier...you owe us the truth...the whole truth...EFI Live is not the only company out there who sells tuning software for GM...not nearly... Keep that in mind before you make decisions to pull the plug on the source where many of us buy our products... Imagine my face when I told my customers that I could have their trucks tuned and the autocal in house by Friday...and then had to call them back and let them know I can't do it... You know where they probably went? Down the road to the guy with HP Tuner... So please... if nothing else PM me your reasoning or post it here for all... You(EFI LIVE) owe it to all of us.. YOU really do...

[justafarmtruck]

If its such a problem with a resale matter put them in a place where they are able to keep the support part going. it was unbeatable.... you could atleast do that for a matter of your own sake and ours as customers and tuners................... but to me it sounds like they cant say anything because someone did some sucking up and they are just trying to cover their selfs if theres a reason say it your a company you are to tell your customers these things! if someone called and asked me can you tune my truck and i said no and they asked why should i just say welllll just because????..... no i dont think that would fly and it would give me a bad name to.... so what makes you any better by doing that???? id agree with there is other tuning software and money that could be invested and developed on those items to

[AllOutPerformance]

I voted NO as well. Not because I want to see Fish Tuning gone, but because it is in the best interests of EFILive and the majority of EFILive resellers and end users.
Regards
Paul

Best interest of the end user?and reseller? I'm both and have talked to others and i would love to know your basis for this opinion.

[AllOutPerformance]

My guess we will have no votes from the efi live staff. Just a thought.

[Blacky]

So please... if nothing else PM me your reasoning or post it here for all... You(EFI LIVE) owe it to all of us.. YOU really do...

Dear Bosephos,

We do not owe you an explanation. It is none of your business.

The only reason we will not speak publicly about the reasons is out of respect for Fish Tuning. I'd personally love to explain what went wrong, who did what and why it resulted in this outcome.
However, I believe it would be extremely embarrassing to Fish Tuning. I don't want to air that laundry in public, I'm pretty sure Fish Tuning do not want me discussing it in public and it is entirely inappropriate to be doing so.

If you can't accept what we have done and if you believe (or have been led to believe) that what we have done has been done for personal or otherwise unethical reasons, then feel free to go purchase your tuning needs elsewhere.

You do realize that you can order product directly from EFILive and have it shipped FedEx in 24 hours. So turning away customers is a bit counter productive don't you think?

Regards
Paul

[Bosephos]

Yes...at least give Ira & Robyn some compensation & keep them on as tech support for the US... You have NO IDEA how well they cover those bases... SCT & HP Tuner is sounding better and better...up until today I would've never said that...

[justafarmtruck]

But the other companys can do the same and keep us productive with better customer support then offered by you guys at the moment......... Work something out with them if its such a big deal about how they went about selling in your book! we want the customer support and service! I garentee you wont have that unless it is by them!!!!!!

[Bosephos]

Dear Bosephos,

We do not owe you an explanation. It is none of your business.

The only reason we will not speak publicly about the reasons is out of respect for Fish Tuning. I'd personally love to explain what went wrong, who did what and why it resulted in this outcome.
However, I believe it would be extremely embarrassing to Fish Tuning. I don't want to air that laundry in public, I'm pretty sure Fish Tuning do not want me discussing it in public and it is entirely inappropriate to be doing so.

If you can't accept what we have done and if you believe (or have been led to believe) that what we have done has been done for personal or otherwise unethical reasons, then feel free to go purchase your tuning needs elsewhere.

You do realize that you can order product directly from EFILive and have it shipped FedEx in 24 hours. So turning away customers is a bit counter productive don't you think?

Regards
Paul

How bout you give me the "respect" and remember I'M THE CUSTOMER!

[bobo]

There is no question that Fish Tuning's support and service that they extended to their reseller network was anything other than first class - this wasn't the issue at hand.

Cheers
Cindy


Having first class customer service and support means as much to me as having first class beta testers does to Ross and Paul. Whatever the reason for dismissing Fish Tuning as a distributor was, it really don't matter. They are gone and they were what made my business run for me and my family. Why do I have to walk away from a product I believe in just because of a business decision by EFI Live? I put my trust in Robyn and Ira to be there when I needed them and now I don't have any choice but buy direct. International Bank Fees and time zone differences make buying direct a difficult choice. The thing is, I'm not a quiter and you can't fire me. I'll get by, but it might not be whats best for everybody. It's going to be what's best for my family, my business, and me. I'm making some of my own business decisions. Stay tuned!!

[Bosephos]

Having first class customer service and support means as much to me as having first class beta testers does to Ross and Paul. Whatever the reason for dismissing Fish Tuning as a distributor was, it really don't matter. They are gone and they were what made my business run for me and my family. Why do I have to walk away from a product I believe in just because of a business decision by EFI Live? I put my trust in Robyn and Ira to be there when I needed them and now I don't have any choice but buy from direct. International Bank Fees and time zone differences make buying direct a difficult choice. The thing is, I'm not a quiter and you can't fire me. I'll get by, but it might not be whats best for everybody. It's going to be what's best for my family, my business, and me. I'm making some of my own business decisions. Stay tuned!!

Bobo hit the nail on the head...

[cindy@efilive]

Cindy... speaking for all of us FORMER Fish Tuning customers I think you and the other members at EFI Live owe us all a real reason for dropping Fish Tuning. I had 3 inquiries today for tuning & an autocal sell... Now that my EFI Live distributor is no longer, I had to turn that business away. Your decision has cost me money and some embarrassment and so I just want to know why?

Why has our decision cost you embarrassment and money? Why have you had to turn business away? All resellers received communication with several methods of alternative ordering. There are no out of stocks, and no supply issues.



We get that you claim to give chance after chance...but what were these reasons Ira & Robyn needed a second chance? Hmm? I seriously doubt that you will tell us....
As said above resellers have been given a range of ordering options, Guy is merely one of those options.



You have hurt a lot of us with this...EFI Live has taken a turn for the worst and I doubt that you would even offer me the discount that Fish Tuning did formerly...and I KNOW you couldn't touch the quick response and technical assistance that they provided...7 days a week... and during our business hours in the US... EFI Live has a created a black eye for itself today and lost a truly wonderful distributor...
We have been hurt and let down on many occasions through the direct actions of Fish Tuning. We've sort remedy through internal communications, external consultants, business practice changes, additional monitoring and clear communication to remedy. If you are to be angry at anyone it should not be us, it should be Fish Tuning. Their continual breaches have pushed themselves down this path.



I'm not even writing this based on any friendship I've had with Robyn & Ira, but from the unmatched support and service that they have provided. As I said earlier...you owe us the truth...the whole truth...EFI Live is not the only company out there who sells tuning software for GM...not nearly... Keep that in mind before you make decisions to pull the plug on the source where many of us buy our products...
If you think we've made a decision at the toss of a coin, you are wrong. It's been a carefully considered move. We've spent countless days, weeks, months and years considering how to manage the unmanageable. At the end of the day, there was no other choice.



Imagine my face when I told my customers that I could have their trucks tuned and the autocal in house by Friday...and then had to call them back and let them know I can't do it... You know where they probably went? Down the road to the guy with HP Tuner... So please... if nothing else PM me your reasoning or post it here for all... You(EFI LIVE) owe it to all of us.. YOU really do...
How you chose to manage your business is your decision. We retain the same right in managing ours. I still don't understand why you had to turn away business. There are several options available in terms of obtaining stock, and there are no customer support delays.

Cheers
Cindy

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Subcribed.

[Dmaxink]

Having first class customer service and support means as much to me as having first class beta testers does to Ross and Paul. Whatever the reason for dismissing Fish Tuning as a distributor was, it really don't matter. They are gone and they were what made my business run for me and my family. Why do I have to walk away from a product I believe in just because of a business decision by EFI Live? I put my trust in Robyn and Ira to be there when I needed them. International Bank Fees and time zone differences make buying direct a difficult choice. The thing is, I'm not a quiter and you can't fire me. I'll get by, but it might not be whats best for everybody. It's going to be what's best for my family, my business, and me. I'm making some of my own business decisions. Stay tuned!!

I could not of said this better myself Bobo... same boat...

[cindy@efilive]

Having first class customer service and support means as much to me as having first class beta testers does to Ross and Paul. Whatever the reason for dismissing Fish Tuning as a distributor was, it really don't matter. They are gone and they were what made my business run for me and my family. Why do I have to walk away from a product I believe in just because of a business decision by EFI Live? I put my trust in Robyn and Ira to be there when I needed them and now I don't have any choice but buy from Guy or direct. International Bank Fees and time zone differences make buying direct a difficult choice. A lot of my customers don't like Guy because he has made bad business deals with them, so I don't feel that is a good avenue either. The thing is, I'm not a quiter and you can't fire me. I'll get by, but it might not be whats best for everybody. It's going to be what's best for my family, my business, and me. I'm making some of my own business decisions. Stay tuned!!

Bob, we feel the same way. Robyn and Ira were like family to us too. But like everything in life, it doesn't always work out the way you hope or plan. This decision has been extremely painful for us, as I am sure it is for them. We understand that different resellers have different needs, and like in all facets of life not everyone gets along. If we were all the same we'd still be driving black T model Fords.

We do ask that you bear with us in the short term, and allow us the opportunity to set up a business structure that is both beneficial to our reseller and customer network as well as our commercial and business needs. If you personally need anything taken care of, you know how to contact me directly and I will strive to ensure that the customer service levels you've become accustomed to will continue to be delivered.

Cheers
Cindy

[bobo]

Thank you, Cindy. Is there any timeline in place?

[cindy@efilive]

I could not of said this better myself Bobo... same boat...

Kory, my offer to Bob extends to you and anyone else who needs assistance.

Cheers
Cindy

[DoghouseDiesel]

All I have to say is I'm highly disappointed.

I've spoken my peace via email.

[dansdieselp]

I along with the rest of the resellers am disappointed. Thing is it's not any of our decision in the matter. Bad mouthing and anger towards EFILive isn't helping at all. Robyn and Ira are not gone or completely removed from the EFILive world. They have said they are still going to be there to answer questions and continue making products that have helped us all in marketing and product sales. The resellers have lost a distributor, but we haven't lost Fish Tuning and their support.

[minytrker]

Having first class customer service and support means as much to me as having first class beta testers does to Ross and Paul. Whatever the reason for dismissing Fish Tuning as a distributor was, it really don't matter. They are gone and they were what made my business run for me and my family. Why do I have to walk away from a product I believe in just because of a business decision by EFI Live? I put my trust in Robyn and Ira to be there when I needed them. International Bank Fees and time zone differences make buying direct a difficult choice. The thing is, I'm not a quiter and you can't fire me. I'll get by, but it might not be whats best for everybody. It's going to be what's best for my family, my business, and me. I'm making some of my own business decisions. Stay tuned!!

Wow is all I can say!
Fish was the only customer service that I knew I could call when I needed help right then. Judging by all the people the email was sent to I probably wasnt the only one who used Fish Tuning.
Fish Tuning is one of the few reasons I am still using EFI Live. Ever since Cummins came out it seems like us gas tuners have been forgot about by everyone except Fish Tuning. Fish Tuning was one of the most pro active distributors and pro EFI Live places out there. Everyone I know personally who tunes went through them for support and or purchases. I don't believe there is another company out there who could have better customer service or support for EFI Live. I have never heard a negative thing about them. Its obvious from this thread that I am not alone on quality of service I got from them.

Does EFI Live know how hard they are making it for people to support them? First the price increase, then no support for the T43, then get rid of the distributor that most of the gas tuners use. What next, cummins only?

Really disappointed
Lorenz

[Dmaxink]

Yep, its a sad day for us friends... I have never met such strait-forward and awesome people. Regardless of what is going on, Fish Tuning will have my business in any venture they have from here on, and have my full support. Any company that does what they have done for me, i feel as though i am in debt to them. Thank you again Fish Tuning.

[cindy@efilive]

Wow is all I can say!
Fish was the only customer service that I knew I could call when I needed help right then. Judging by all the people the email was sent to I probably wasnt the only one who used Fish Tuning.
Fish Tuning is one of the few reasons I am still using EFI Live. Ever since Cummins came out it seems like us gas tuners have been forgot about by everyone except Fish Tuning. Fish Tuning was one of the most pro active distributors and pro EFI Live places out there. Everyone I know personally who tunes went through them for support and or purchases. I don't believe there is another company out there who could have better customer service or support for EFI Live. I have never heard a negative thing about them. Its obvious from this thread that I am not alone on quality of service I got from them.

Does EFI Live know how hard they are making it for people to support them? First the price increase, then no support for the T43, then get rid of the distributor that most of the gas tuners use. What next, cummins only?

Really disappointed
Lorenz
Lorenz,

While it may not be of much consolation to you, I can say categorically that now the break has been made that our ability to service both Gas and Diesel, GM and Cummins from a development perspective has been improved.

The amount of development time that Paul and Ross have both lost over the last 2 years dealing with the issues that lead to this weeks decision is astronomical. Their focus has been pulled at critical times on critical projects that have had a direct result of us delivering support.

If the quality of service you received from Fish Tuning was the same as we received, this thread would not have been started. We would not be in this dark place. And quite possibly, the support you ask for may have been delivered months ago.

The review of our distribution channels has commenced. We are acutely aware of the needs of our Gas Tuners and Resellers. Your thoughts have been taken on board, and we'll provide further information once a decision has been made.

Cheers
Cindy

[Bosephos]

Lorenz,

While it may not be of much consolation to you, I can say categorically that now the break has been made that our ability to service both Gas and Diesel, GM and Cummins from a development perspective has been improved.

The amount of development time that Paul and Ross have both lost over the last 2 years dealing with the issues that lead to this weeks decision is astronomical. Their focus has been pulled at critical times on critical projects that have had a direct result of us delivering support.

If the quality of service you received from Fish Tuning was the same as we received, this thread would not have been started. We would not be in this dark place. And quite possibly, the support you ask for may have been delivered months ago.

The review of our distribution channels has commenced. We are acutely aware of the needs of our Gas Tuners and Resellers. Your thoughts have been taken on board, and we'll provide further information once a decision has been made.

Cheers
Cindy

Yeah...we are totally buying this...

Good day to you...

[LReiff]

Lorenz,

While it may not be of much consolation to you, I can say categorically that now the break has been made that our ability to service both Gas and Diesel, GM and Cummins from a development perspective has been improved.

The amount of development time that Paul and Ross have both lost over the last 2 years dealing with the issues that lead to this weeks decision is astronomical. Their focus has been pulled at critical times on critical projects that have had a direct result of us delivering support.

If the quality of service you received from Fish Tuning was the same as we received, this thread would not have been started. We would not be in this dark place. And quite possibly, the support you ask for may have been delivered months ago.

The review of our distribution channels has commenced. We are acutely aware of the needs of our Gas Tuners and Resellers. Your thoughts have been taken on board, and we'll provide further information once a decision has been made.

Cheers
Cindy

Wow! Why even make this a poll? Unless there is something in place for us as far as customer support, good pricing and fast affordable service goes this was a bad move. Some of us have families to support and small profit margins do not put food on the table.

[Bosephos]

Wow! Why even make this a poll? Unless there is something in place for us as far as customer support, good pricing and fast affordable service goes this was a bad move. Some of us have families to support and small profit margins do not put food on the table.

It's real easy for them to make a decision to drop someone when they are halfway around the world and don't get the full picture...I'm seriously doubting that EFI Live and their emplyees (4 or 5 I think) can do the finances, research & development for new support, programming, manufacturing design, shipping & receiving, and then even THINK ABOUT offering tech support close to Ira & Robyn. EFI Live is spread too thin as it is...that's what's hindering development & support... Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that... I mean, I'm sleeping during your normal business hours.

[Bosephos]

All I'm asking is 2 things...

1) Give us an alternative US distributor to deal with...If you won't give us fish tuning then how bout Duramax Tuner???
2) Keep Ira & Robyn on as tech support...

Tahdah...there's a nice working business structure...

[dansdieselp]

There will be a new distributor in due time. We're buying direct and business is continuing as usual. As I stated before Fish is no longer a distributor, but they are still there to offer tech support and offer the same level of support as they did before. They still have product remaining if you wish to stock up and I'm sure will become a reseller down the road. This is just a bump in the road, but that's how business is. You can take it or leave it.

[Dmaxink]

X2 Dan

[GAMEOVER]

I voted YES....I just found out this morning that I can't buy License's thru fish tuning anymore...WTF is going on!!!

[minytrker]

I voted YES....I just found out this morning that I can't buy License's thru fish tuning anymore...WTF is going on!!!

I needed an auto cal license today, before with one email and a few minutes I was good to go. I didnt have time today to call and try to get set up with a competitor, Im mean new dealer.

[Bosephos]

Oh well I was trying to keep from butting heads with ya. Ive been doing enough of that lately.

[DoghouseDiesel]

Okay, you can take this for what its worth.....

I just spent an hour on the phone with Ross. To summarize, yes, he knows there are things that could have been done differently. Got it! Hear ya! It is what it is.

The other night I think I was on the phone with Robyn for close to 2 hours.

Now, like every story there are 3 versions...yours, mine and how it really is.

On one side, you have a distributor that we all enjoyed doing business with. On the other, you have a company trying to make a profit. And then you have us that are essentially caught in the middle.

Without getting into details from either side, yes there were mistakes, yes there were things that could have been handled differently, but in the end a decision was made. While unpopular, there are other issues, on both sides. There is no blind innocence here.

They are working on another distributor, but as of now, its not locked down and NO, its not anyone that most of us would consider a competitor, from what I understand.

Believe me, I explained to Ross that I felt like the last year of work just went down the tubes. Right at the beginning of race season and we lose our supply. Bad timing....absolutely.....got it. I know I lost out on 6 sales since this occured because I couldn't offer a product. I think I made it clear that I felt like a knife had just been stuck in my back.

Now, I see valid points from both sides, but in the end, this is someone elses business(s). Not you, him, her or anyone else is going to tell me how to run mine, so who the hell am I to tell them. Have they lost money and pissed folks off? Yes! Is this the end of the world? NO!

Here is the thing, and this I do agree with......everyone needs to back off and let things get back to normal. Every second that Ross, Paul, Cindy or Donna have to spend here defending the decision, its that much longer until the deal gets ironed out with another distributor.

Folks, I'm just as pissed off as anyone else, but after the initial anger passes, grown folks step back and get back to work. In the interim, those of us that do more than just sit at the computer and play tuner still have to play ambassador between the customer and the company.

You have a choice. We all have a choice. We can sit here and bitch and moan or we can simply accept that things change. Business models change. Policies change. Priorities and product lines change. What doesn't change is in the end, this is a small hurdle. If not being able to sell V2's or AutoCals kills your business, well, my advice is this......DIVERSIFY! Expand your product base, have a plan that doesn't put all your eggs in one basket.

I know this may piss a few folks off, but ya know what, it doesn't matter. You don't pay me and I don't pay you. As I have said to people that have come to the shop and bitched at me for something we didn't work on and we didn't cause the problem with. To this my answer is simple....."I can help you or I can tell you to go F¥€K yourself, but each time you yell at me, the rate goes up $10 an hour!"

This will work itself out. If you go back and look at your reseller agreement (assuming you have one), you'll see that you're still going to make money when the dust settles.

[Bosephos]

Okay, you can take this for what its worth.....

I just spent an hour on the phone with Ross. To summarize, yes, he knows there are things that could have been done differently. Got it! Hear ya! It is what it is.

The other night I think I was on the phone with Robyn for close to 2 hours.

Now, like every story there are 3 versions...yours, mine and how it really is.

On one side, you have a distributor that we all enjoyed doing business with. On the other, you have a company trying to make a profit. And then you have us that are essentially caught in the middle.

Without getting into details from either side, yes there were mistakes, yes there were things that could have been handled differently, but in the end a decision was made. While unpopular, there are other issues, on both sides. There is no blind innocence here.

They are working on another distributor, but as of now, its not locked down and NO, its not anyone that most of us would consider a competitor, from what I understand.

Believe me, I explained to Ross that I felt like the last year of work just went down the tubes. Right at the beginning of race season and we lose our supply. Bad timing....absolutely.....got it. I know I lost out on 6 sales since this occured because I couldn't offer a product. I think I made it clear that I felt like a knife had just been stuck in my back.

Now, I see valid points from both sides, but in the end, this is someone elses business(s). Not you, him, her or anyone else is going to tell me how to run mine, so who the hell am I to tell them. Have they lost money and pissed folks off? Yes! Is this the end of the world? NO!

Here is the thing, and this I do agree with......everyone needs to back off and let things get back to normal. Every second that Ross, Paul, Cindy or Donna have to spend here defending the decision, its that much longer until the deal gets ironed out with another distributor.

Folks, I'm just as pissed off as anyone else, but after the initial anger passes, grown folks step back and get back to work. In the interim, those of us that do more than just sit at the computer and play tuner still have to play ambassador between the customer and the company.

You have a choice. We all have a choice. We can sit here and bitch and moan or we can simply accept that things change. Business models change. Policies change. Priorities and product lines change. What doesn't change is in the end, this is a small hurdle. If not being able to sell V2's or AutoCals kills your business, well, my advice is this......DIVERSIFY! Expand your product base, have a plan that doesn't put all your eggs in one basket.

I know this may piss a few folks off, but ya know what, it doesn't matter. You don't pay me and I don't pay you. As I have said to people that have come to the shop and bitched at me for something we didn't work on and we didn't cause the problem with. To this my answer is simple....."I can help you or I can tell you to go F¥€K yourself, but each time you yell at me, the rate goes up $10 an hour!"

This will work itself out. If you go back and look at your reseller agreement (assuming you have one), you'll see that you're still going to make money when the dust settles.


You think they are considering Premier?

[DoghouseDiesel]

Premier is supplied by SoCal.

I'm not going to speculate and I didn't even ask exactly who it was. If I was Ross, I wouldn't have told me anyways because I know that potential distributor would be inundated with calls and emails from all of our angry asses.

[AFTERMATH DIESEL]

Damn I must be the only person who didn't use fish tuning. Not that I had anything against them. I just had done business with Guy prior to us using EFI Live so it made sense for our business.

For me Guy has always returned my calls in a timely manner. From what I've read that's not the case for everyone.

Hopefully that will change for the good for everyones sake

[Dmaxink]

Thanks for your info rich. I appreciate it and agree fully.

[Taz]

DoghouseDiesel,</SPAN></SPAN>

Thank you so much for taking the time to write post #44.</SPAN></SPAN>

I will admit, I was becoming more than a little frustrated with the continuous venting of all of the egocentric perspectives.</SPAN></SPAN>

There are two basic types of company structures – publically traded and privately owned.</SPAN></SPAN>

Publically traded companies sell stocks / shares in the company to generate working capital, and are thereby accountable to the stock / share holders.</SPAN></SPAN>

Privately owned companies are just that. They steer their own ship, and answer to no one external to the company.</SPAN></SPAN>

No one will ever tell me how to run my business, and I would never be so arrogant as to tell someone else how to run their business.</SPAN></SPAN>

Odd as this may sound, participating in this Forum constitutes one of my leisure activities – which I genuinely enjoy. I do my best to be polite and reasonable, only dispensing a reality check when absolutely necessary – perhaps on a mere 2 or 3 occasions so far.</SPAN></SPAN>

I am hoping sanity prevails shortly …</SPAN></SPAN>


Regards,</SPAN></SPAN>
Taz</SPAN></SPAN>

[ScarabEpic22]

Ive kept mum on this matter, just a few PMs to one of the more vocal members on here trying to simply find out what happened (this was yesterday). I have only had one or two encounters with Fish tuning and they were positive, but in the end it is EFILive's decision. I still do not know all the details, and I probably never will. Thats ok with me. I know EFILive will get the resellers sorted out asap as it costs their end users time and money, but until then everyone needs to hold tight.

If you're really worried about getting a VIN license or buying more AutoCals, you can always buy directly from EFILive. Is it as convenient or cheap (from a shipping aspect) from a local US supplier? Probably not, but an extra $5-10 on an AutoCal for the next few weeks shouldnt kill anyone. If it does, then you're not charging enough to begin with! :D


I agree with Taz, thank you DoghouseDiesel for taking the time to write your post. I also consider this forum (and one or two others) to be something fun I get to look forward to after a hard day at work or being frustrated with a project.

[GMPX]

All I'm asking is 2 things...

1) Give us an alternative US distributor to deal with...If you won't give us fish tuning then how bout Duramax Tuner???
2) Keep Ira & Robyn on as tech support...
I'm not going to suggest that anyone has even considered such a plan, but since you put it out there, I'll respond by simply saying that the mindset of Fish Tuning right now is that it's probably not something they would consider 'if' offered, certainly not helped by the animosity of people like yourself re-enforcing this through posts that are based on emotion, not fact. Don't look at the homeless man on the street and say what a lazy bum, question how he wound up that way, the answers are not always black and white.


As I stated before Fish is no longer a distributor, but they are still there to offer tech support and offer the same level of support as they did before.
You won't see EFILive post a negative comment about the customer support that Fish Tuning gave to our product, the comment above re-enforces what you all know, as stated many times, this is not the reason behind the decision.


Yeah, i will not be ordering my product from competition. With all respect to Nick, i will not do so. I do not think that is moral, neither ethical.
The choice of who it will be is of course going to be carefully thought out, over the last few days numerous hands have been raised for the role, however, we understand that there is situations where the CEO of McDonalds doesn't what to buy he's buns from Burger King to serve a product.


Okay, you can take this for what its worth.....

I just spent an hour on the phone with Ross. To summarize, yes, he knows there are things that could have been done differently. Got it! Hear ya! It is what it is.

The other night I think I was on the phone with Robyn for close to 2 hours.

Now, like every story there are 3 versions...yours, mine and how it really is.
Thanks Rich, you know I was not digging to find out what Robyn said, I didn't even know Robyn had contacted you. I gave you the EFILive explanation why, you took that on board and mixed it up with Robyn's comments. Our phone call did not end by you calling me any expletives, so from that I can take it that you could see that it was just a working relationship with different ideas that couldn't see eye to eye and eventually broke down. I haven't had the opportunity to speak with Robyn or Ira since the separation, deep down I think they know this was not due to the hostile reasons everyone has assumed.


Without getting into details from either side, yes there were mistakes, yes there were things that could have been handled differently, but in the end a decision was made. While unpopular, there are other issues, on both sides. There is no blind innocence here.
This is why we are trying to remain civil and not air the dirty laundry. I know it's a hard pill to swallow for everyone and you all want to know the exact reasons why, but ultimately EFILive and Fish Tuning need to be respectful of each other and keep this on a professional level, not personal. Them letting everyone know EFILive's failings (in their minds) achives nothing when we can fire the same missles back.



I will admit, I was becoming more than a little frustrated with the continuous venting of all of the egocentric perspectives.
I can understand the animosity, if I may lead to an example of a favourite passion of mine, coffee.
The supplier I prefer to get my coffee from last year did a blog stating that they were no longer going to be selling a certain blend. They stated the reason was because the farmer 'sold out' and lowered he's quality to the point where it was not good enough for their standards. I thought that was not necessary and insulting, maybe there was very valid reasons why the farmer 'sold out', however, as a consumer I appreciated knowing that was the reason and not being left in the dark.
Ultimately, both EFILive and Fish tuning could have lowered themselves to air in public the problems we've had that led to this moment, probably something both parties would regret when the dust is settled. Keep in mind that Fish tuning also sells (and will probably continue to sell) products that are designed to work with EFILive (such as DSP switches) and I see no reason why they would not want to continue to work with some of our developments for Cummins so they can continue to sell such items. Ira is still a member of this forum, he has not been banned, and whilst I am not expecting posts from him in this thread I hope that people can one day understand that this seperation was not meant with malice. We just couldn't sort out our differences of opinion on how things should be done.
So you may sit here and accuse EFILive of being greedy, being unappreciative of what Fish tuning have done and we'll just have to cop it on the chin if it means we avoid tainting both companies integrity.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

As someone who is not an EFI-Live Reseller ( yet ), I would not consider anyone other that Guy and SoCal Diesel for my EFI-Live Products.

There seems to be a lot of personal animosity towards Guy, perhaps it is because he runs his business in a way in which does not work well with many of the people who purchased from Fish Tuning ?

I know whenever I needed a Workshop Cable Stream License I got it in a timely fashion, along with switches and core ecms/tcms.

I am about to shift my business model from a part time/hobby ecm exchange business model to a full time model with Auto-Cal as my primary tool I will use to deliver my tuning, I can think of no other shop than SoCal Diesel to purchase from.

I have known Guy for 9 years, since the start of the Diesel Place, perhaps when you run your business so you are fair and ethical to everyone and will not treat some of your customers better than others ( assuming that is the rub here ) there can be ego's that can be bruised.

Bottom line is Fish Tuning is gone for reasons nobody here is going to know, if the rest of you wish to remain malcontents and ignore the current EFI-Live Distributor and wish to purchase directly that is your choice, as you all cry about how inconvenienced you are if you have to purchase direct from EFi-Live. Many of the posters here have made statements that their business is being hurt by Fish Tuning being gone, how are you being hurt ? Product is in stock, in this country, and available from a distributor.

As far as customer support, if you are a Reseller why would you need a wholesale distributor to troubleshoot your product or service ? I assume that if you are reselling then you ultimately should be the responsible party for supporting what you sell.

Some other posters commented about the quality of the beta-testers, as if they are not going to be beta-testers in the future because now their feelings got hurt ! That is cutting off your nose to spite your face ! You should all be ashamed of yourselves if you choose to abandon the best product for tuning gas/diesels in the market. If you choose that path you will put yourself out of business which is better for the rest of us.

I think this whining is more about money than anything else, that is what it is always about anyway. Somebody doesn't want to give their money to SoCal Diesel and that is the rub.

:bad:

[LReiff]

Lots of good reading here. Its good to get a different perspective on a matter.

[Boost]

Bring back Fish Tuning! I have had no experiences with any other dustributors / re-sellers, therefor no bad ones at all, so I can only add that I have had GREAT service from Fish Tuning and I think they are very nice people. I have absolutely no idea abould all the rest of this drama... :(

[Taz]

Bring back Fish Tuning! I have had no experiences with any other dustributors / re-sellers, therefor no bad ones at all, so I can only add that I have had GREAT service from Fish Tuning and I think they are very nice people. I have absolutely no idea abould all the rest of this drama... :(

Did you read post #44 to #53 ? You have no input nor influence in the manner a privately held company runs their business - assertions to the contrary are narcissistic and arrogant.

This thread was finally settling down to a potentially objective, business based (rather than emotionally based) level of thought.

How would you like it if others tried to dictate how you operate your business ?

The whole point of this, is individuals recognizing appropriate boundarys / decorum - you have no standing to comment on how another private individual operates their business, invests their money, raises their children, etc.


Regards,
Taz

[IdahoRob]

I have delt with both resellars for many years. I made a business decision 1 year ago and moved my EFI business to Guy at SoCal. The decision was not made lightly as I had received good service from Ira, but it was made none the less.

This transition was seemless and I have received perfect support and product from Guy and SoCal in a timely friendly fashion. I could not ask for anything more than I am receiving now. I understand there will be another whole seller, but in the interum, do not look into what very few have said about a very good person and a great company. Everyone is entitled to opinions, but pick up the phone and base your opinions on not what one or two people think, but on your own personal experiences.

I have also purchased product direct from EFI and shipping is just a couple days, so companies can purchase the same product and if putting a few on the shelf will break the bank, then there are other problems.

[SIC-Performance]

It seems to me someone... EDITED BY MODERATOR. With all business relationships especially overseas relationship there are issues. I have a number of different companies and have done business around the global and know this first hand. When we open a market we look for the best in that market and stick with them. You have market differences, culture differences that unless you are from that market you just don't understand. I ask you all do you potentially throw away a large market of buyers who were extremely happy with a re-seller is the question we need to ask ourselves the answer is no unless someone offers a lot more money and puts guarantees in place. We love the EFI products but maybe we might start to love other products. I ask the EFILIVE guys to remember we all need to feed our families.

[GMPX]

SIC-Performance, companies in the US can get taken to court over accusations like the one you made, foolish statement as a first post for sure.
I'll quote from your website "Software credits and device may be additional (Diablo sport, SCT, EFILive, HP tuning, etc…)", you are a performance / tuning shop right? I'm not sure how you not having Fish Tuning to purchase licenses through is going to take food off the table (referring to your statement). You can still order licenses from us direct 24/7.

Anyone who has been on this forum for a while knows that EFILive has a strong stance on not editing or removing posts, I don't like censorship, to quote Mr Jello Biafra "Gagging those who tell it like it is won't make the problems go away", it's a motto I try to stick to. But if this thread continues to get out of hand with personal attacks and unfounded accusations it will be closed, keep it civil, I've already moderated the personal attacks which have no place in this discussion.

We will shortly have two distributors again, as resellers you will have a choice, just like our existing resellers had a choice when Guy first came on board as a second distributor, a number of resellers made requests to us to purchase through SoCal instead of Fish.

[GMPX]

If its such a problem with a resale matter put them in a place where they are able to keep the support part going. it was unbeatable.... you could atleast do that for a matter of your own sake and ours as customers and tuners...................


Blacky, based on the tone you are taking with me(a customer) I can assure you that you don't know the first thing about "respect" so please save it... I don't have a direct account with EFI Live...and unless you will give me as good of a discount as I had with Fish Tuning then yes I will look elsewhere. Y'all really have no sense of "the customer is always right" do you? No way to be nice about this...no way to even give us resellers notice before you pulled the plug...That's my deal...where's the respect enough to LET US KNOW before you stop all sales through Fish Tuning!

Trevor and Kyle,

I've mulled over your posts for a good couple of days. I had until today left your posts unedited in their entirety however I have now moderated the personal attacks.

Fish Tuning was our Distributor. Their role was to Distribute products to Authorised Resellers and provide technical support and service for our product.

When the two of you got quite upset in these threads and attacked our integrity and the reasons for making our business decisions I accepted as Authorised Resellers you were aggrieved and let you express your thoughts in my backyard as the owner of this site.

Since then I've checked the information you have provided against our sales data base and question your relationship with Fish Tuning.

Both of you have purchased a single FlashScan unit each, and a handful of licenses (lets say for this exercise less than 20 a piece), you've quoted your discounts from Fish, and I can see those in our sales reports; so I have to question - are you an Authorised Reseller to obtain such discounts, or are the sales figures provided by Fish misleading of your situation?

Lets be clear here, to be an Authorised Reseller a minimum of 5 units need to be purchased up front, and annual sales targets need to be met. If you don't meet that definition, then you are an end user/tuner and not entitled to any discount on our product.

Cheers,
Ross.

[dfe1]

This thread sounds a lot like some of the political forums I've seen-- lots of people expressing their personal opinions and making personal attacks without knowing the facts. The only purpose that serves is stroking your own egos. For the record, I have dealt with Fish Tuning and never had anything but good experiences. But to me, that's irrelevant. The people at EFILive made a difficult decision, and whether I or anyone else agrees or disagrees with it, it was their decision to make. Many of the decisions that a business owner has to make are difficult enough without having to deal with people second-guessing and criticizing. I wonder how open some of the posters here would be to outside criticism of the decisions they make. I have written to both EFILive and Fish Tuning and offered to help with fence mending or in any other way, because I believe FlashScan is absolutely the best software, and should be available to anyone who needs it. But I guess the real reason I wrote this post is because I'm disappointed in the way some people have behaved, acting like little vindictive children who didn't get their way. I always held everyone who participates in this forum in high regard, but apparently I was operating under some false impressions. And that's been one hell of a wake up call.

[Dmaxink]

It is time for folks to pick up and move on... life goes on...its a hurdle, but hey...I run guys pistons and I'm now ordering vins from him as well. So far no issue at all. Time to pick up and move on. Go Guy, direct, or go home. I've had to put personal feelings aside and get back to business. Game on.

[justafarmtruck]

As someone who is not an EFI-Live Reseller ( yet ), I would not consider anyone other that Guy and SoCal Diesel for my EFI-Live Products.

There seems to be a lot of personal animosity towards Guy, perhaps it is because he runs his business in a way in which does not work well with many of the people who purchased from Fish Tuning ?

I know whenever I needed a Workshop Cable Stream License I got it in a timely fashion, along with switches and core ecms/tcms.

I am about to shift my business model from a part time/hobby ecm exchange business model to a full time model with Auto-Cal as my primary tool I will use to deliver my tuning, I can think of no other shop than SoCal Diesel to purchase from.

I have known Guy for 9 years, since the start of the Diesel Place, perhaps when you run your business so you are fair and ethical to everyone and will not treat some of your customers better than others ( assuming that is the rub here ) there can be ego's that can be bruised.

Bottom line is Fish Tuning is gone for reasons nobody here is going to know, if the rest of you wish to remain malcontents and ignore the current EFI-Live Distributor and wish to purchase directly that is your choice, as you all cry about how inconvenienced you are if you have to purchase direct from EFi-Live. Many of the posters here have made statements that their business is being hurt by Fish Tuning being gone, how are you being hurt ? Product is in stock, in this country, and available from a distributor.

As far as customer support, if you are a Reseller why would you need a wholesale distributor to troubleshoot your product or service ? I assume that if you are reselling then you ultimately should be the responsible party for supporting what you sell.

Some other posters commented about the quality of the beta-testers, as if they are not going to be beta-testers in the future because now their feelings got hurt ! That is cutting off your nose to spite your face ! You should all be ashamed of yourselves if you choose to abandon the best product for tuning gas/diesels in the market. If you choose that path you will put yourself out of business which is better for the rest of us.

I think this whining is more about money than anything else, that is what it is always about anyway. Somebody doesn't want to give their money to SoCal Diesel and that is the rub.

:bad:




look we got one of the 20 guy lovers right here ^^^^ the rest never get help from him.

[justafarmtruck]

Trevor and Kyle,

I've mulled over your posts for a good couple of days. I had until today left your posts unedited in their entirety however I have now moderated the personal attacks.

Fish Tuning was our Distributor. Their role was to Distribute products to Authorised Resellers and provide technical support and service for our product.

When the two of you got quite upset in these threads and attacked our integrity and the reasons for making our business decisions I accepted as Authorised Resellers you were aggrieved and let you express your thoughts in my backyard as the owner of this site.

Since then I've checked the information you have provided against our sales data base and question your relationship with Fish Tuning.

Both of you have purchased a single FlashScan unit each, and a handful of licenses (lets say for this exercise less than 20 a piece), you've quoted your discounts from Fish, and I can see those in our sales reports; so I have to question - are you an Authorised Reseller to obtain such discounts, or are the sales figures provided by Fish misleading of your situation?

Lets be clear here, to be an Authorised Reseller a minimum of 5 units need to be purchased up front, and annual sales targets need to be met. If you don't meet that definition, then you are an end user/tuner and not entitled to any discount on our product.

Cheers,
Ross.



how do you know how many V2s ive bought??? you dont for the fact of ones ive bought didnt come from fish because i didnt know them at the time of buying them and bout lic. direct for the longest time! if they broke resale rules lets see the rules because ive never heard of map pricing on vin. lic..... now lets see this ok your calling us "little"??? so be it but guess what once agian without "little guys" there wouldnt be a need for "big guys" i.e. so cal. and it seems you dont have the nuts to leave our post untouched because you didnt want someone to see it if you edited it! i see more and more shady sides coming out of EFI Live directly everyday from this happening.... sure youll more then likely delete this because you cant handle the truth.but for most people we feel like we are lost trying to find a corner in a oval room right now because you can say oh well there is help out there bla bla bla but i have yet to have anyone to call and get that help right that secound you need it like i had with fish.

[Blacky]

look we got one of the 20 guy lovers right here ^^^^ the rest never get help from him.

Really? Really? Is that the level of comment we can expect from you?

We've tried to subtly point out some "anomalies" with your so called "reseller arrangement" with Fish Tuning and you're still trying to stir up trouble? If I was is your position I'd be shutting up before you do more damage to the reputation of Fish Tuning than you already have. Just a friendly reminder that you appear to be blissfully unaware of the full implications of what has transpired recently.

Regards
Paul

[DoghouseDiesel]

Anybody wanna share?.....

http://www.diabetesmine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/popcorn.jpg

Cuz, IT's TIME!.......

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/454/363/BruceBuffer_display_image.jpg?1287546444

And I'm feelin' it comin'.....

http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/thedaleo/ThePimpHand.png

:hihi:

[justafarmtruck]

Really? Really? Is that the level of comment we can expect from you?

We've tried to subtly point out some "anomalies" with your so called "reseller arrangement" with Fish Tuning and you're still trying to stir up trouble? If I was is your position I'd be shutting up before you do more damage to the reputation of Fish Tuning than you already have. Just a friendly reminder that you appear to be blissfully unaware of the full implications of what has transpired recently.

Regards
Paul




yeah I do... because i agreed to purchase through them so they could profit on what id buy from anyone else for the fact of the tech support????? yeah i wanna play this game because you have nothing legit out yet that they did wrong. lets see your map pricing on vin. lic. please??? or do you need me to give you time to write something up?????

[Blacky]

how do you know how many V2s ive bought??? you dont for the fact of ones ive bought didnt come from fish because i didnt know them at the time of buying them
To be a reseller and qualify for the discounts that Fish Tuning was apparently giving to you, requires that Fish Tuning provide EFILive with a signed reseller agreement. We don't have that for you. So either Fish Tuning screwed up and were offering you a discount to which you were not eligible, or you are not telling the truth - which is it?


if they broke resale rules lets see the rules because ive never heard of map pricing on vin. lic.....
The distribution contract is a contract between EFILive and their distributors. If you want to be privy to the contents of that document, then either become a distributor or ask Fish Tuning to show it to you.


now lets see this ok your calling us "little"??? so be it but guess what once agian without "little guys" there wouldnt be a need for "big guys" i.e. so cal.
No, we are not calling you little, we are simply pointing out that you don't seem to have qualified for any form of "reseller" status. Yet it appears you are enjoying the discounts reserved for folks that do qualify and that work extremely hard to meet their sales quotas.


and it seems you dont have the nuts to leave our post untouched because you didnt want someone to see it if you edited it! i see more and more shady sides coming out of EFI Live directly everyday from this happening....
The only comments that were removed were personal attacks on our partners. Our forum is not the place to be making personal and angry attacks on EFILive or on our partners. Please feel free to discuss and make comments in a civilized manner.


sure youll more then likely delete this because you cant handle the truth.
No, you're doing a pretty good job of discrediting yourself and the folks you claim to be supporting all on your own.


but for most people we feel like we are lost trying to find a corner in a oval room right now because you can say oh well there is help out there bla bla bla but i have yet to have anyone to call and get that help right that secound you need it like i had with fish.
As we've said many times, a new distributor should be up and running next week. In the mean time, please contact EFILive directly, send me an email ([email protected]) if you want and we can get you whatever you need.

I'm reading between the lines and I may be wrong, but it seems like you've just discovered you weren't eligible for the massive discounts you were getting and now you're really pissed that you'll actually have to either: pay the retail price for your EFILive products, or actually do some reselling to qualify for those discounts. I'm sorry if you find that a problem and I'm disappointed that was not made clear to you by Fish Tuning, but it is how EFILive expects business to be done.

Regards
Paul

[justafarmtruck]

seems as if there isnt a map pricing on vins. in place then ????? and your tryin to avoid that because no rule was really in place.

I dont give a shit what i have to pay for them i would of gave $150 a vin to fish just because it was worth the tech suport. ok your fixing that in due time but in due time what if we need help? well you cant get ahold of anyone if needed!

[DoghouseDiesel]

seems as if there isnt a map pricing on vins. in place??????

Seems pretty inclusive, pull yours up and read. Later in the agreement it does mention licenses.

You're not helping anything man, you're just diggin' a hole. Get over it, move on, it's a business decision.

12834

[justafarmtruck]

Seems pretty inclusive, pull yours up and read. Later in the agreement it does mention licenses.

You're not helping anything man, you're just diggin' a hole. Get over it, move on, it's a business decision.

12834



wasnt advertised and that looks like V2 units to me....

[DoghouseDiesel]

wasnt advertised and that looks like V2 units to me....

If you want, I'll pull up the entire thing. If you have one, I wouldn't have to. I pulled up the first page, because it's pretty clear.

If you weren't trying to do shady crap, I wouldn't have to.

If you had more of a legitimate business, I wouldn't have to.

If you didn't meet the requirements and were getting the discounts, you shouldn't have been. Simple as that.

Like I said, you're just digging your own hole. Instead of selling things and making a profit you migh end up simply black listed and told to pound sand.

[justafarmtruck]

If you want, I'll pull up the entire thing. If you have one, I wouldn't have to. I pulled up the first page, because it's pretty clear.

If you weren't trying to do shady crap, I wouldn't have to.

If you had more of a legitimate business, I wouldn't have to.

If you didn't meet the requirements and were getting the discounts, you shouldn't have been. Simple as that.


you suck guys dick to???

[DoghouseDiesel]

you suck guys dick to???

Wow! You really don't have a clue, do you?

Really?....what are you 12?....put your big boy pants on and deal with it.

Quit being this azzhole.....

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/Cumminalong/InternetSharpshooter.jpg

[DoghouseDiesel]

And, just for your own edification, I bought through Fish, if you really must know.

Now go change your diaper, you're stinkin' up the place.

[GMPX]

how do you know how many V2s ive bought???
Whatever is referenced to your name in the products registration database, if there is more then how many?


now lets see this ok your calling us "little"???
Where did I refer to you or anyone else as "little"?


sure youll more then likely delete this because you cant handle the truth.
The truth hey, here's the problem, you are assuming 50% of the information about how EFILive and Fish Tuning operate. You've probably spoken to Ira or Robyn and got one side of the story, then come on here and acted in a way that reads very poorly to the casual reader who is not directly affected.
Based on 50% assumption how can you really be sure your rants are justified? Even if we explained to YOU in detail how this transpired it would make no difference to how you are conducting yourself, you don't have an open mind, clearly shown by your reaction to people saying they have fantastic service from Guy, that is some truth, clear to see who's having a hard time handling that.
What you don't seem to be able to comprehend is the split was due to business differences, we didn't see eye to eye on things and we parted ways, happens every day in business partnerships. If that makes us bad in your eyes the same rule must be applied to the other party.

Your posts are achieving nothing positive, the decision is final (from both sides). As I mentioned earlier, Fish Tuning still have products that they design and build to work with EFILive and may continue to do so in to the future, if you guys really want to be out there spreading the word how bad EFILive is (again, you only know one side of the story), you are not helping Fish Tuning's future when others see how 'that' side behaves when things don't go to plan. Whilst it might not be Ira and Robyn on here posting, you are reflecting an image associated with their name.

[DoghouseDiesel]

Here, try this one on smart guy...

Lets see your business license.

Or, how about your Tax ID number?

Or, how about a retail license?

Put up, or STFU! It's guys like you that are making a friggin mess of everything.

I think I made it pretty clear that I talked to both sides. Both had valid points, both had valid complaints, and yes there were conflicts, or should I say misunderstandings, in the versions.

[justafarmtruck]

then dont be a homo. and say oh more of a legitimate business and run your cock sucker... dont say shit about my age because id have to say im doing pretty damn well at my age. as a matter of fact what i know now about tuning at my age and the years i have ahead of me leads so much more room to grow id say when im your age i should be doin pretty damn well.

[DoghouseDiesel]

then dont be a homo. and say oh more of a legitimate business and run your cock sucker... dont say shit about my age because id have to say im doing pretty damn well at my age. as a matter of fact what i know now about tuning at my age and the years i have ahead of me leads so much more room to grow id say when im your age i should be doin pretty damn well.

Wow, dude, you've got issues!

So what you're saying is you're selling stuff to your friends for little or nothing, right.

The name of my business is right there, not hiding a damn thing.

So if you want to talk legitimate business and actually have your comments mean a damn thing, post up the info I just asked for. It's pretty easy. Although, I don't think we'll see anything appear, right?

Otherwise, you're that little sh!tstick sitting in mommy's basement playing keyboard commando.

Like I said, put up or shut up. All your mouth running is just making you look like a friggin' cry baby!

Deal with it or find another product.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

look we got one of the 20 guy lovers right here ^^^^ the rest never get help from him.

Maybe it's your piss poor attitude towards Guy ??

Maybe it's not him with the problem and it's you.

HMMMMM

[DoghouseDiesel]

Let's see, now that I know who I'm dealing with.....

Country Smoke Performance <label class="mlm mainButton uiButton" for="utg4li_10"></label>Automotive · Albion, Indiana (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Albion-Indiana/108730262484821)

Information



<tbody>
Description
EFI LIVE - GM Gas or Diesel

EFI LIVE - CUMMINS

6pos 7.3 powerstroke chips with custom tunes

SCT custom tuning

Custom Tuning for almost anything-

Call for pricing on performance and stock work and Parts we will try to get you the best price and service

We also offer injectors and tips for any performance or daily use application call for pricing or if you have any questions to which would work best for your need

Trevor Lortie
Country Smoke Performance
(260) 564-3012




Address
3240 W Vacationway, Albion, IN 46701 (http://bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&pc=FACEBK&mid=8100&where1=3240+W+Vacationway%2C+Albion%2C+IN+46701&FORM=FBKPL0&name=Country+Smoke+Performance&mkt=en-US) · Get Directions (http://bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&pc=FACEBK&mid=8100&rtp=adr.%7Epos.41.379403261503_-85.48507032615_Country+Smoke+Performance_3240+W+Va cationway%2C+Albion%2C+IN+46701&cp=41.379403261503%7E-85.48507032615&lvl=16&sty=r&rtop=0%7E0%7E0%7E&mode=D&FORM=FBKPL1&mkt=en-US)



Phone
1 260.564.3012



Website
Add Website (http://forum.efilive.com/#)


Status
Always open.


</tbody>

[DoghouseDiesel]

So, now that we're not hiding behind funny screen names, pipe your azz up junior!

[GMPX]

ive been around efi live from when it was first out over here knew of it
So, you've been using EFILive since Duramax release, so 5 or 6 years, ok.


as a matter of fact what i know now about tuning at my age and the years i have ahead of me leads so much more room to grow id say when im your age i should be doin pretty damn well.
I would expect in 5 or 6 years of tuning you might be pretty good at it, know the product inside out, almost use EFILive with a blindfold on?


i have yet to have anyone to call and get that help right that secound you need it like i had with fish.
What help? Ira doesn't tune trucks, so tuning advice wasn't it, installing the product, probably not, you've been using it for 5+ years. What you meant to write was 'I can't call up Fish Tuning and get discounts I am not entitled to' and now I am annoyed.

[justafarmtruck]

Let's see, now that I know who I'm dealing with.....

Country Smoke Performance <label class="mlm mainButton uiButton" for="utg4li_10"></label>Automotive · Albion, Indiana (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Albion-Indiana/108730262484821)

Information



<tbody>
Description
EFI LIVE - GM Gas or Diesel

EFI LIVE - CUMMINS

6pos 7.3 powerstroke chips with custom tunes

SCT custom tuning

Custom Tuning for almost anything-

Call for pricing on performance and stock work and Parts we will try to get you the best price and service

We also offer injectors and tips for any performance or daily use application call for pricing or if you have any questions to which would work best for your need

Trevor Lortie
Country Smoke Performance
(260) 564-3012




Address
3240 W Vacationway, Albion, IN 46701 (http://bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&pc=FACEBK&mid=8100&where1=3240+W+Vacationway%2C+Albion%2C+IN+46701&FORM=FBKPL0&name=Country+Smoke+Performance&mkt=en-US) · Get Directions (http://bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&pc=FACEBK&mid=8100&rtp=adr.%7Epos.41.379403261503_-85.48507032615_Country+Smoke+Performance_3240+W+Va cationway%2C+Albion%2C+IN+46701&cp=41.379403261503%7E-85.48507032615&lvl=16&sty=r&rtop=0%7E0%7E0%7E&mode=D&FORM=FBKPL1&mkt=en-US)



Phone
1 260.564.3012



Website
Add Website (http://forum.efilive.com/#)


Status
Always open.


</tbody>

facebook rules the world dont it! ;) if that wasnt the only and you only knew any of it dip shit.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

then dont be a homo. and say oh more of a legitimate business and run your cock sucker... dont say shit about my age because id have to say im doing pretty damn well at my age. as a matter of fact what i know now about tuning at my age and the years i have ahead of me leads so much more room to grow id say when im your age i should be doin pretty damn well.

Your use of colorful metaphors and your grammar and sentence structure leads us to believe you are a farmer from Indiana who probably can milk a cow and not tune a truck.

Sorry if I have offended any of the farmers in Indiana, but this guy is giving you a bad name.

I am wondering if this is a fly by night, under the radar, illegal business.......wonder if he pays his taxes and runs a legit business ???

Maybe EFI-Live should start requiring only legitimate business's be able to purchase directly from the Distributors to weed out all the bottom feeders ?

Hmmmmm, perhaps that will clean up the thread and the problems.

I know I have a legitimate business with a LLC and EIN and Sales Tax Number, do you farmboy ???

[justafarmtruck]

So, you've been using EFILive since Duramax release, so 5 or 6 years, ok.


I would expect in 5 or 6 years of tuning you might be pretty good at it, know the product inside out, almost use EFILive with a blindfold on?


What help? Ira doesn't tune trucks, so tuning advice wasn't it, installing the product, probably not, you've been using it for 5+ years. What you meant to write was 'I can't call up Fish Tuning and get discounts I am not entitled to' and now I am annoyed.


more like annoyed with you ruined the support side of it.

[justafarmtruck]

dont you eat? next time thank a farmer ;)

[justafarmtruck]

Maybe it's your piss poor attitude towards Guy ??

Maybe it's not him with the problem and it's you.

HMMMMM

would have to be able to get ahold of him first....

[Dmaxink]

I think they said farmboy only has roughly 20 vins and has been in business for 5 years? Need us say more... i say close the thread..

[justafarmtruck]

Your use of colorful metaphors and your grammar and sentence structure leads us to believe you are a farmer from Indiana who probably can milk a cow and not tune a truck.

Sorry if I have offended any of the farmers in Indiana, but this guy is giving you a bad name.

I am wondering if this is a fly by night, under the radar, illegal business.......wonder if he pays his taxes and runs a legit business ???

Maybe EFI-Live should start requiring only legitimate business's be able to purchase directly from the Distributors to weed out all the bottom feeders ?

Hmmmmm, perhaps that will clean up the thread and the problems.

I know I have a legitimate business with a LLC and EIN and Sales Tax Number, do you farmboy ???


yes sir :)

[justafarmtruck]

I think they said farmboy only has roughly 20 vins and has been in business for 5 years? Need us say more... i say close the thread..

your a few many off and thats only one box....

[Dmaxink]

Cool...how about we close this thread guys?

[DoghouseDiesel]

yes sir :)

Not mommy and daddy's farm license, junior.

You do know that's public record, right?

You do know if I wanted, I can find it, right?

You see where I'm going?

You still wanna continue this?

Take your hick azz back out under your cow until you actually have to pay your own way.

[GMPX]

more like annoyed with you ruined the support side of it.
What support specifically?
As I said, it can't be tuning advice, it's probably not software advice because after 5 years of using it you would know all there is to know.

If you want to save some credibility you need to answer questions directed at you with hard facts, not prep school name calling, if you don't start doing that you will be banned because you are offering nothing more than what we might see on a Justin Bieber vs Jonas Brothers thread.

Example:
My car goes really fast.
Oh yeah, how fast.
Faster than yours.
Right, well mine has a top speed of 200MPH, runs a 9 second 1/4, here's a time slip.
Mines still faster.
So how fast?
Just faster

Did you get the point across how fast your car was to where anyone would believe you?

Answering a question directed at you with a one word response isn't justified as an answer.

[DoghouseDiesel]

What support specifically?
As I said, it can't be tuning advice, it's probably not software advice because after 5 years of using it you would know all there is to know.

If you want to save some credibility you need to answer questions directed at you with hard facts, not prep school name calling, if you don't start doing that you will be banned because you are offering nothing more than what we might see on a Justin Bieber vs Jonas Brothers thread.

:hihi:

[Ira]

Hi

I'm the one all the commotion is about. I've been doing this for seven years and now I am not. it's OK, I'm fine. I must admit, it was amusing for a while watching the EFILive folks flail around. It's gotten past funny. We appreciate all the support our users have given us, we really do. We'll miss the family we built, the friends who called every day. But, we're still selling DSP5 switches, we have 1000 EFILive stickers coming tomorrow or the next day, there's 500 custom Flashcan and Autocal cases due in 5 weeks. While, we don't understand why someone didn't call and ask us to help them transition so this mess didn't happen, it wasn't our idea for this to go here. I've always been comfortable talking to Ross and Paul about the software and helping Paul test the interface. Ross is right, I've never tuned a truck or a car for that matter, but most of the real tech support problems have more to do with firmware version problems, Windows driver issues, my truck won't start and things like that. We tried to do the best job we knew how to, but in the end it wasn't good enough. We've known this day was coming. We're not unhappy, something else will come along. I bought a lathe last week so I'm going to go spend some time in the shed making things, the time off will be nice.

Please let this be the last post so Ross and Paul can get back to making the best tuning software on the planet.

Ira (and Robyn)
Fish Tuning

P.S. Please lock this thread, and please don't start another one like it. Enough is enough.

[dansdieselp]

If you're not an authorized reseller then you're just part of the problem that has led to this decision. So thank you. Congrats. I would think if you've been with EFILive "since it was out" you'd be a Reseller by now. It's not that hard to sell 5 V2s or 1-2 a month. So the way I see it you've bought two V2s. One for GM and one for Cummins and you just tune trucks for your own personal benefit without actually trying to sell any product. Now you're pissed cause you have to pay an extra $30 for licenses. Why haven't you bought streams yet? After I tuned my first 40 or so trucks I got streams for all three controllers. No more vin licenses. So if you're not pushing the product and only in it for the tuning then you have no dog in this fight. Why don't you just mark up your tunes $30 to compensate? I'm sure it wouldn't affect the amount of trucks you tune since you've been around for SO long.

[GMPX]

We tried to do the best job we knew how to, but in the end it wasn't good enough.
Ira, thanks for your input to the thread. We both know the split wasn't about lack of effort or support from you guys, we just have different ways of doing things that we couldn't resolve. That shouldn't make either party wrong, some guys choose to drive FORD's over Chevy's, doesn't mean either of them are wrong.


We've known this day was coming. We're not unhappy, something else will come along.
You have numerous passions outside of what you were doing with EFILive, when that first batch of beans gets roasted, I'll put in my order :grin:


Please let this be the last post so Ross and Paul can get back to making the best tuning software on the planet.
Thanks Ira, much appreciated.

[Trippin]

I have been the subject of numerous undeserved attackes recently. I started a post for this thread last night. I wanted to read, re-read and then ask EFILive to approve, before actually posting. I was busy most of today on the phone with EFILive tech support and did not get a chance to finish my thoughts. I respectfully ask for space to be reserved in this thread for my post, should the thread be closed.

[GMPX]

It will remain open Guy, the two posters who are contributing nothing but personal insults like 5th graders will be banned if it continues.

[J.Abbott]

Wow, this thread really took a crazy turn. First off let me say I like Ira and Robyn, they have been great to talk to and Robyn has been all over me about becoming a reseller. I have not yet and I have not sold any product, just using it for ourselves. I have also been paying full price for it. I do not expect a discount when I have not lived up to my end of the deal. I have the latest agreement that was out and I had planned on filling it out and sending in my order for the first 5 V2's. As Robyn knows becasue I told her many times I just have not had time to do it. I was also concerned about percentages etc. I sent Paul a PM earlier that hopefully I will get a reply to. I don't have any ill feelings toward EFI Live, I really like the product and it has made my cal work much quicker and easier since I went to it. Now I would like to go the next step and offer it to our customers that would prefer it and have it in stock on the East Coast. Look, this thing with Fish Tuning is unfortunate, but you know these things happen and everyone will be fine. Remeber when AT&T broke up, everyone thought it would be the end, but they are still here and now there are more to choose from. I am sure Ira and Robyn are going to be just fine, and I will buy at least one of those cases when they come in, but it is what it is and everyone needs to get on with moving forward. I wish Ira and Robyn well, thank you for all the help and we will talk again. EFI Live is always only going to get better, and to be honest while everyone is complaining about support, what exact support are you talking about. I have found that really every question can be answered in the manual which is huge. Yes Ira could help with quick question on why my new license will not load or how do I get my AutoCal to work, because I called with those questions because honestly I was too lazy to look it up here or look in the manual. All the answers to our questions are out there if we choose to look and I personally will still support EFI Live and at some point will start reselling their products. If someone is buying these at discounts and they are not a legit business and purchasing by the rules than that is an issue. That would keep me from purchasing EFI Live products, so if that is what it is about then I am happy that they have chosen to have a strict structure for resale and I personally love MAP pricing. As a large company I have a difficult time competing with someone who is selling product out of their living room, they don't stock it and they are not purchasing per the structure we are having to, so kudos to EFI Live for enforcing this.
Justin

[DoghouseDiesel]

Where's the LIKE button when ya need it.

Very well said.

[Bosephos]

I have been the subject of numerous undeserved attackes recently. I started a post for this thread last night. I wanted to read, re-read and then ask EFILive to approve, before actually posting. I was busy most of today on the phone with EFILive tech support and did not get a chance to finish my thoughts. I respectfully ask for space to be reserved in this thread for my post, should the thread be closed.

I say close it. Ill admit my emotions ran high. I felt betrayed. But I spoke and acted like a jackass. Sorry for that Guy. Sorry everyone. I just wish Fish Tuning the best of luck and the same goes for EFI Live. Id simply ask that Ira stay somewhat in the loop for future cummins switches!!! :-)

Everyone take care!

[blazinblue]

Its sad to see fish tuning go, when i burnt my v2 i talked to them and had it repaired within a week. A couple years ago i would order vin licences thru the site and didnt received then till 2 days later, and there i was calling fish tuning and they would resolve my problems within a call. I had exellent customer service epecially since they are based here in the US. Btw they even answered on sundays

[Trippin]

I say close it. Ill admit my emotions ran high. I felt betrayed. But I spoke and acted like a jackass. Sorry for that Guy. Sorry everyone. I just wish Fish Tuning the best of luck and the same goes for EFI Live. Id simply ask that Ira stay somewhat in the loop for future cummins switches!!! :-)

Everyone take care!

I think we got to see the true colors of many people this week. I'm sure it was as eye opening for EFILive as it was for me. I must admit, it was pretty difficult for me to watch my reputation and my company's dragged through the mud with baseless accusations. EFILive and I knew there would be a certain amount of blowback. I guess you could say I took one for the team.

Funny thing is, you guys are defending and supporting the very guy that was betraying you. I'd be pretty pissed of if i was an Authorized Reseller that had purchased 5 units up front and then found out my Distributor was selling to others at the same price i was paying without requiring them to purchase the same amount up front. Yet you guys allowed yourselves to be manipulated into thinking i was the bad guy, without any concrete evidence at all, just the word of someone trying to get you to fight a battle he had already lost with EFILive. As much as some of you would like to think I had something to do with this, the reality is quite the opposite. Fish Tuning self destructed all on their own. The folks at EFILive are extremely intelligent, principled and loyal people, they have agonized over this decision for a long time. First, second, third, and more chances were given. Fish Tuning even admitted they knew it was coming.
J
There is no reason any of you Authorized Resellers should have missed out on any sales this week as I always have product in stock, and I will honor all Authorized Reseller's pricing. Many have already come to me and found the transition was as easy as making a phone call.

To those of you that are not Authorized Resellers, yet have been receiving sweetheart pricing deals, let's get you the 5 units up front that you need and get you signed up. You obviously have experienced the benefits of using and selling the EFILive product line.

Remember, I'm here to help you become successful with EFILive, I'm not your competition. I don't sell retail as some have accused me of, any and all sales leads I receive from the SocCal Diesel/EFILive web page are distributed evenly among resellers on my team.

Respectfully,

Guy Tripp

President
SoCal Diesel

(Please excuse any typing mistakes as this was drafted and posted with an iphone while sitting on the side of a field at a soccer tournament in San Diego)

[minytrker]

I think we got to see the true colors of many people this week. I'm sure it was as eye opening for EFILive as it was for me. I must admit, it was pretty difficult for me to watch my reputation and my company's dragged through the mud with baseless accusations. EFILive and I knew there would be a certain amount of blowback. I guess you could say I took one for the team.

Funny thing is, you guys are defending and supporting the very guy that was betraying you. I'd be pretty pissed of if i was an Authorized Reseller that had purchased 5 units up front and then found out my Distributor was selling to others at the same price i was paying without requiring them to purchase the same amount up front. Yet you guys allowed yourselves to be manipulated into thinking i was the bad guy, without any concrete evidence at all, just the word of someone trying to get you to fight a battle he had already lost with EFILive. As much as some of you would like to think I had something to do with this, the reality is quite the opposite. Fish Tuning self destructed all on their own. The folks at EFILive are extremely intelligent, principled and loyal people, they have agonized over this decision for a long time. First, second, third, and more chances were given. Fish Tuning even admitted they knew it was coming.
J
There is no reason any of you Authorized Resellers should have missed out on any sales this week as I always have product in stock, and I will honor all Authorized Reseller's pricing. Many have already come to me and found the transition was as easy as making a phone call.

To those of you that are not Authorized Resellers, yet have been receiving sweetheart pricing deals, let's get you the 5 units up front that you need and get you signed up. You obviously have experienced the benefits of using and selling the EFILive product line.

Remember, I'm here to help you become successful with EFILive, I'm not your competition. I don't sell retail as some have accused me of, any and all sales leads I receive from the SocCal Diesel/EFILive web page are distributed evenly among resellers on my team.

Respectfully,

Guy Tripp

President
SoCal Diesel

(Please excuse any typing mistakes as this was drafted and posted with an iphone while sitting on the side of a field at a soccer tournament in San Diego)


I have never done business with Guy or even spoke to him before. I must admit after reading some of the post on here I was hesitant to call. So Thursday I finally called and it was very easy and only took a couple of minutes. We ended up talking about 30 mins on the phone about all kinds of interesting gas and diesel performance things. I dont like basing opinions on hearsay and Im glad I called Guy. So my first impression and actual dealings with Guy were great.

Lorenz

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

I find it funny how people jump to conclusions without knowing the facts.........a lot of people here shot from the hip and made themselves look like idiots.

It would seem to me that after the dust settles that a business reputation can be easily torn apart and yet will take immense time, energy and effort to restore.

To those who jumped to conclusions without having the facts I would suggest a public apology to both EFI-Live and Guy are in order, anything short of a public apology will once again remind us of what kind of character you all have. You don't have to like a person or agree with a person, but when you are wrong you should man up and offer an apology.

It seems that out of respect for Ira and Robyn the reasons for the parting of the ways was meant to be kept quiet, but those who were apparently getting deals they should not have been getting pushed and pushed and in the process unfairly trashed SoCal Diesel and Guy, not good IMHO.

I am glad that the truth has come out, maybe now the illegitimate resellers will have to step up and become legitimate, make the minimum buy-in and sign the reseller agreements.

I also hope that EFI-LIVE makes a business decision to strictly enforce the resellers agreements and if and when a new Distributor is chosen that company also vigorously enforces the agreements as well.

[Dmaxink]

Purchased through Guy this week and he took great care of me. We are looking forward to the future of Efilive, and our new venture with Guy Tripp. Thanks again Guy.

-Kory@PowerPerformance/Calvin's

[Tre-Cool]

So in the end. the bitching come about from guys who were getting sweet heart prices when they weren't entitled to them.

What a bunch of sooks. Surely if you tune enough vehicles you would eventually buy stream licenses.

I have no quarms in paying the RRP direct from efilive, as for me there is no point going through third party's for the same price. I always like to cut out the middle man.

[J.Abbott]

Ross, Paul,
I must say so that I am being fair to both parties, you guys made your decisions based on facts that 99% of us do not know maybe 100% and I respect that, nobody should tell you how to run your business. I have read though it sounds as if he was pricing units to people without doing the buying. I can say this though, Robyn and I have been talking for the past 6 months about me becoming a reseller, and I have had no less than hundreds of questions about pricing and my responsibilties as a reseller. This whole time it was clear that I had to purchase 5 units up front and then maintain certain sales though the year. Now I was not anyone to them except a company that bought a unit and some licenses. If this was not standard procedure than that is a huge issue. Anyways good luck and I will be contacting Guy about becoming a reseller or if there is a new distributor that is going to be closer to me.
Thanks
Justin

[Dale C]

I really regret this decision. At the same time I don't pretend that it is any of my business or that I know the details. I don’t feel the need to defend decisions that I make in running my business so I can understand EFI's position on that. What I am here to speak about is the positive relationship we have shared with Fish Tuning over the years.
From our first jump from LS1 edit and tunercat to real tuning software we have delt with Fish Tuning. We knew we were going to go with EFI or HP. The decision was made for us the first time we spoke with Ira and Robyn. It was not that they convinced us that EFI was better it was that they made us feel comfortable with the support. We are not a power purchaser, parts sales is a small part of our business. It is much more common for us to tune cars than to sell software. We deal with the streams more than licenses.
Where Fish Tuning has made all the difference for us is the above and beyond customer service. We have had our V2 go down a couple times. Fish has always been on the ball sending us a loaner cable and licensees to use while we were waiting on repair. They have always been there when we needed a wideband or cable overnighted making sure it went out same the day even if they had to run out to the shipper. They have always done an excellent job keeping us informed of product updates.
I do not know any of the other vendors and I do not want to sell them short on assumptions. I will say that I do not think EFI would be where it is today without Fish and obviously the reverse is true. I fear that one thing that gets overlooked is the gap between the marketing of the product and the ability of the end user. Your average guy who installs a camshaft in his car and orders software will never be able to use it. This is a unique product in that it requires a lot of knowledge in engine mechanics, physics, fuel injection operation, GM operating systems and fairly strong computer skills. There are very few people who don’t do this for a living that posses all of those skills. This is what makes customer support all that much more important with this product. It should not be overlooked that for the most part all of this support has been handled by this forum and the distributors of the product, there is no 1-800-EFI-Help number. I don’t mean to sound condensing with that statement I just think we take a working knowledge for granted at times. Most of the sales we have made have quickly eaten the profit in support time.
We have somewhere close to 100 vendors we deal with and I can’t think of any other that I would take the time to type this for. On the "dealer" or wholesale end of the performance automotive industry customer service is usually a joke, Fish has always been the exception.

Dale Clark
Tach It Up Motorsports

[TBMSport]

This is most unfortunately and regrettable news. Particularly as I had to look like a jackass to customer due to lack of ANY type of advanced notice. It's even more tragic because I've had nothing but good things to say about EFILive to people who have asked for my advice on the product, due almost entirely to the tech support I received from Ira at Fish Tuning. But it is not surprising.

Despite the always welcoming and helpful attitude that I have always received from Ira and Robin, the 'attitude' I received when inquiring about additional T43 tables made it evident that EFILive is just a business..plain and simple. Fish Tuning was Customer Support. From my experience, customer service means more to me and most people. Any business management that courts a potential customer to support its product then flatly tells them that the business operations and decisions are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS after having the customer invest money, support and loyalty clearly no longer deserves any of it. I'm not going to beg someone to take my money, but that's me.

Clearly my opinion means little as I'm not one of the power diesel retailers of EFILive. But I can tell you one thing, clearly word of mouth and personal reputation mean nothing here, so the tech magazine article that I was just about to submit to Truckin' magazine is having every reference of EFILive deleted. Unlike some, I will not reduce myself to childish, unprofessional, and/or malicious comments about this decision or my personal encounters with EFILive management, from this day forward I will definitely refrain from saying anything positive about it.

Good luck to all parties involved.

[Blacky]

Any business management that courts a potential customer to support its product then flatly tells them that the business operations and decisions are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS after having the customer invest money, support and loyalty clearly no longer deserves any of it. I'm not going to beg someone to take my money, but that's me.

I can't understand that point of view. Wat is it about some people that they think they have any right to be included in the way we run our business. If you purchased a vehicle from a Chevy dealer, then later GM revoked that dealer's dealership, would you expect GM to explain to you why they did that? Surely it is a confidential business arrangement between the dealer and GM. I am amazed that anyone would expect to be included in such business decisions.

I'm sorry that you ended up looking like a jackass. Fish Tuning had more than 18 months of "warnings" that they were close to being cut. That they chose not to share that information with their customers is something you should take up with Fish Tuning. Although in my opinion, that is also none of your business.

And yes, EFILive is a business, what else would you expect it to be? It is not a hobby, it is not a charity, it is a business designed to generate an income, most of which is invested directly back into the product to provide up to date vehicle support for our paying customers. If we did not run EFILive as a business it would eventually go bust and then all our users would disadvantaged.

I wish you luck with your new tuning tools, I hope you have as much success with them as you had using EFILive.

Regards
Paul

[Dynotuner]

I'm another single V2 with <20 VIN license guys chiming in, so if you care to skip the post feel free.

My EFI Live experiences with Ira and Robyn were few, but certainly positive. One repair on my V2, some VIN licenses, and then an attempt to become a reseller. After using EFI Live I recommended it to other shops. Some of the sales went to Nick at Duramaxtuner who is a great product rep and some went to other dealers. Since I was already driving sales, I thought I might add EFI Live to my company's list of available products too. I contacted Robyn, filled out the reseller's agreement and found out that I really wouldn't qualify. I was happy to buy in at 5 units, but being totally honest didn't feel like we could move more than 5 or 6 units per year. I had looked into partnering up with other small companies to perhaps make the annual sales goal and in the end decided the margin available is not worth the effort. I spoke with Donna personally at the PRI Tradeshow in Orlando and left with the impression that EFI Live would prefer not to have 20 small businesses like mine selling 5 or so units per year, but would rather have one large reseller selling 50 (yes, I did the math). Since factory engine management is not my primary business I did not pursue it any further.

It is a shame to see distributors that are as passionate as Robyn and Ira go away - my opinion of the product was enhanced by their involvement. I hope that the same level of support and commitment will continue for the U.S. customers since this is truly a great product. I use calibration software from many sources and find that EFI Live to be among the best in ease of use, accuracy, and great documentation.

Thankfully other vendors feel differently so that my company may sell their products. I'll have to assume that this move was made to improve sales or preserve margins since the previous post imply that support was not an issue. Maybe if the change fails to have the desired effect the next one can include some discount incentive that was eluded to in earlier posts that may not have been "authorized".

[Highlander]

i can't understand that point of view. Wat is it about some people that they think they have any right to be included in the way we run our business. If you purchased a vehicle from a chevy dealer, then later gm revoked that dealer's dealership, would you expect gm to explain to you why they did that? Surely it is a confidential business arrangement between the dealer and gm. I am amazed that anyone would expect to be included in such business decisions.

I'm sorry that you ended up looking like a jackass. Fish tuning had more than 18 months of "warnings" that they were close to being cut. That they chose not to share that information with their customers is something you should take up with fish tuning. Although in my opinion, that is also none of your business.

And yes, efilive is a business, what else would you expect it to be? It is not a hobby, it is not a charity, it is a business designed to generate an income, most of which is invested directly back into the product to provide up to date vehicle support for our paying customers. If we did not run efilive as a business it would eventually go bust and then all our users would disadvantaged.

I wish you luck with your new tuning tools, i hope you have as much success with them as you had using efilive.

Regards
paul

i agree!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[minytrker]

Its a bad deal all the way around when something like this happens. You have all the people posting in this thread plus more who had nothing but great dealings with Fish Tuning and are shocked and upset to loose such a valuable asset to there own business. Then you have EFI saying they wernt so great to them. I agree with EFI its a private matter and its also there choice to run there own business how they choose. I know it wasnt probably an easy decision and I hope it works out for EFI.

My personal opinion is EFI is defiantly changing directions especially in the last year or two. The price increase, the no streams for newer pcms, lack of T43 support makes it a hard sell. They may be making alot of new guys with dodge happy but there are alot of loyal gas tuners who are not happy. I know I am not alone in my views but I also know us gas tuners are not bringing in the money like the dodge guys are right now. Weather thats EFI intentions or not thats what it looks like from the outside looking in.
I also understand its 100% EFI's business to do what they want but just dont forget about us that have been around for the last 6,8,9 years.

[Blacky]

Its a bad deal all the way around when something like this happens.

Yes you are 100% right, unfortunately it is a bad situation all round. This is not something that we are happy about doing and it is not something that we wanted to happen. We really spent a lot of effort trying to make it work.


I also understand its 100% EFI's business to do what they want but just dont forget about us that have been around for the last 6,8,9 years.
We have certainly not forgotten about our gas tuners, I know its difficult looking from the outside in and not being able to see/know everything that goes on internally and more importantly why we make the decisions we do. We have a passion for tuning vehicles, we love doing what we are doing, we love seeing our customers success, made possible with EFILive. We are working really hard behind the scenes to get a replacement distributor up and running who we believe will make a big improvement to the gas side of EFILive's business.

P.S. We haven't given up on the T43, however some of the tables are kicking our ass and we haven't been able to get those figured out yet. Working very closely with some of our tuner/customers we have come up what will probably turn out to be a far more effective tuning strategy for the T43. Have you seen this thread? http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?12079-6L80-TM-removal/page8 from about post #72 onwards.

Regards
Paul

[minytrker]

The price increase doesnt even effect me personally as you know how many streams I have. I was just stating what other shops tell me and the feedback I get from people when I tell them about EFI Live. I understand the increase, it makes since to me but unfortunately ALOT of people shop buy just price.. Im just relaying what I hear from people.
I know the streams are a very good deal, it didnt take me long to figure that out years ago. They always seemed like a better deal for me than for EFI in terms of money. The whole T43 comes down to time and money. Anyone buying streams has most likley figured out they have to tune x amount to break even then x amount to make it worth while. It throws a curve ball into it when you have to use a $99 license for HPT to change one table for the most part. For years all I had was EFI but I came to a point where I had to buy HPT if I wanted to do certain things.

Im not attacking EFI in anyway, I think its great that there is a public forum where we can voice I opinions and requests and get to interact with the guys that make it happen.

[minytrker]

P.S. We haven't given up on the T43, however some of the tables are kicking our ass and we haven't been able to get those figured out yet. Working very closely with some of our tuner/customers we have come up what will probably turn out to be a far more effective tuning strategy for the T43. Have you seen this thread? http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?12079-6L80-TM-removal/page8 from about post #72 onwards.

Regards
Paul

That doesn't address the lock up tables for the converter.

[Taz]

That doesn't address the lock up tables for the converter.


See post #27 & #28 in this thread ...

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?18246-T43-TCC-Desired-Slip-and-Adaptive-Pressure&p=166856&viewfull=1#post166856

[AllOutPerformance]

[QUOTE=AllOutPerformance;166668]Yes
no

THis post has been edited by EFILive (March 30, 2102) to add the following disclaimer:

EFILive did not start this poll. This poll was started by the forum user: AllOutPerformance.

Contrary to some comments, EFILive is not requesting advice from the public regarding this situation.
EFILive's decision is final and while this poll may allow some people to vent their frustrations, it is not being and will not be used by EFILive in any way to influence business decsions.

Regards
Paul Blackmore
EFILive Limited[/QUOTE
I find it funny you have to change my post.its actually kinda sad.you wanna say this cool.but leave my post as it was.makes you look bad.
So does the new distributed buy direct from you or from another guy.
just curious.

[Blacky]

[QUOTE=AllOutPerformance;166668]Yes
no

THis post has been edited by EFILive (March 30, 2102) to add the following disclaimer:

EFILive did not start this poll. This poll was started by the forum user: AllOutPerformance.

Contrary to some comments, EFILive is not requesting advice from the public regarding this situation.
EFILive's decision is final and while this poll may allow some people to vent their frustrations, it is not being and will not be used by EFILive in any way to influence business decsions.

Regards
Paul Blackmore
EFILive Limited[/QUOTE
I find it funny you have to change my post.its actually kinda sad.you wanna say this cool.but leave my post as it was.makes you look bad.
So does the new distributed buy direct from you or from another guy.
just curious.


Actually we had a number of inquiries to EFILive asking why EFILive was asking if Fish Tuning should be brought back.
Your original post did not make it clear that the poll was started by you and was something that you were asking about and that it had nothing to do with EFILive or EFILive's decision making process. I was clarifying the thread so that people were not confused into thinking that EFILive would run such a poll. I also made it very obvious that I had edited your post to prevent anyone else being confused and thinking that you had made those comments.

The new distributor is exactly that, a distributor. EFILive has two distributors and they both purchase directly from EFILive.

Regards
Paul

[Aloicious]

Wow....I understand that change can be difficult, and those who have dealt with Fish may have a difficult time adjusting to a new distributor. However the completely juvenile posts from various people in this thread is some of the most unprofessional behavior I have seen in a while from people who claim to be professionals themselves.

Just to add a little info as an authorized reseller, for anyone interested in EFILive that finds this thread looking for information.

I have been in business with EFILive for a while, I have not had any dealings with Fish Tuning, and so I can't comment on that situation. However I have had experience with Guy and Socal Diesel, and I can say that their service is top notch. Guy and the others at Socal diesel have gone above and beyond with their service, professionalism, and general help. I can honestly say that the help from Guy I have received has been a great asset to me as a reseller, I think the childish and juvenile attacks against him are baseless and unwarranted.

I would also like to say that EFILive has been nothing but an excellent company to do business with. They are an exemplary company that provides some of the best products and customer service I have ever witnessed. The communication I have received as a reseller from EFILive during this whole situation has shown nothing but respect for Fish, their business, and their customers. The manner in which they handled this situation has been professional, helpful, and overall excellent. It is unfortunate that they have not received the same level of professionalism in the response to their decision. Situations like this can happen in business, and EFILive has every right to make decisions that they feel is best for their company, employees, resellers, and customers. They do not 'owe' a public explanation to anyone, and I applaud them for not doing so, it is a private decision between private companies, and any issues or concerns that people feel have come from EFILive's business decisions should be handled respectfully, professionally, and privately. Argumentative and juvenile threads like this do nothing to benefit anyone, not EFILive, not Fish, not resellers, and certainly not customers. As an owner and moderator of several forums, I personally would have closed this thread long ago, but I respect that EFILive does want to keep some open communication.

Although I have no dealings with Fish so far, I wish them the best in their future business endeavors, and personally, I wouldn't hesitate to do business with them for other products or services that they offer. I also welcome the new EFILive distributor.

And if anyone finds this thread trying to learn about EFILive products, please do not let the emotions, accusations, misinformation, and behavior of some of the people here influence your decision to use EFILive products. The EFILive products, and service, are the best. I have been using EFILive for years, long before I became a reseller. I only do business with companies and products that I personally believe in, and EFILive is on the top of that list in every sense. If you have any questions regarding EFILive products, please don't hesitate to start a thread, or contact any of the EFILive authorized resellers for information.