auto ve tune on 99 camaro ss goes lean

[supershift67]

I am new to tuning and trying to learn as I go but I dont want to hurt the engine doing it. I have a V1. The main problem right now is that the commanded afr goes to 16.8 and sends my wide band to 17 or so. full lean at about 30% throttle. The car lays down and stumbles.what am I doing wrong? it runs rich the rest of the time. this is the first time I have driven the car after installing a 6.0 with ls3 heads and intake. Please bear with me while I try to get this figured out. thanks guys.

[Laychut]

Hi Supershift67,
It is always helpful to post your tune. This way the experienced guys (not me) can give you specific feedback.

Cheers,

Laychut

[BLK02WS6]

Yep, post up your tune and a log if available...

[supershift67]

Sorry, I cant figure out how to post my scan and tune files on here. Ill post when I figure it out.

[Laychut]

Hi Supershift67,
Below is a link to a tutorial on how to post an image.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image

Cheers,
Laychut

[supershift67]

hopefully the files loaded this time

[Laychut]

Hi Supershift67,

As I mentioned earlier I am still learning myself. Your VE table looks interesting.

I see you have modified the VE table. Was this with data from your logging?

Can you post some screen dumps of your maps?

Cheers,

Laychut

[supershift67]

this is my original tune, I did modify the autovetune with updated tables and I did not save an untuned autove tune like I should have. I dont know how to post any screen dumps, i am very new to this and lucky to have gotten this far..

[supershift67]

If you watch the data logging on the scan at frame 2274 the commanded shows 16.8 and the actual is 18. This scared me so I stopped where I was at tuning wise an decided to ask here. I did not have a good base tune to start with so something is out of wack.
The rundown on the car is
6 speed ,
lq4 6.0
with a 225 229 580 590 cam and ls3 heads
2010 camaro intake and injectors.
full length headers to 3" single exhaust. stock maf with 96mm throttle body

[joecar]

Hi ss67,

Your B3605 is lean in the operating range, you need to do this:
- go Edit->Properties and check the Fueling Units, change this to EQR, click Ok, exit tunetool, restart tunetool;
- goto B3605 an remove that trench, you want this area to be at least 1.13 EQR, altho I think 1.16 EQR is safer;


13020


Also your VE tables (Main and Backup) are messed up, revert these back to stock and add 10% (you might have to adjust this initial bump) (what did you add when you started AutoVE...?)

13021

[supershift67]

I added 15% to start with . I will fix b3605 and start over.I pobably messed up the main and backup tables. Can I just use the backup for tuning with autove then paste it to the main after I am done with autove?Thanks for all the help guys.

[supershift67]

On b3605 ,do I still want the area of 80-100c ect and up to 60kpa Map set to 1.00? This is what the autove tutorial pg 6 says to do. I just wanted to make sure.I move the trench back up to 1.15

[joecar]

No, make it say 1.16 EQR (to be safe) from 80kPa and up.

[joecar]

Between B3605 and B3618 you must command a sufficiently rich EQR to keep the engine safe at load...

so set either or both of these:
- B3605: set to 1.16 in the high MAP columns for the operating temperature range;
- B3618: set to 1.16;

If you do use B3618 (i.e. it is set to values higher than 1.00 EQR), then make sure B3616 enables easily when the load increases.

Whichever of B3605 and B3618 the PCM is using to command fuel, the pid GM.EQIVRATIO will show that EQR, so your tuning efforts are still valid.

[supershift67]

Thanks, I will set B3605 and B3618 to 1.16 ,I did drive it today before i saw this post and did a short scan.
If I am on the right track I will drive it a little further tomorrow. I have not applied anything to the tune since the scan yet.
I also see that the BEN factor Map on f11 is showing just solid numbers instead of a ratio or number with a decimal point in it. Am i just viewing it different or what? And what is it indicating now?

[joecar]

Post a screenshot of your BEN factor map.

[BLK02WS6]

You need to select show average cell values instead of show cell count... and you need to get some fuel in the higher KPA areas - it is very lean under WOT!

Here is your map....

[supershift67]

1305413055
I tried to richen up the mixture so I wasnt lean and I am still going through the data log but do you guys think it is ready to paste to the ve tables?
Is there an easy way to view the afr so I can watch the tp sensor and the map sensor all at once. I see a lean spike every once in a while and am not sure why? At this point I wish I would have bought a base tune so I dont burn it down.

[BLK02WS6]

So, does the tune above have the log data already pasted in? The best thing to do is to post the tune that is in the car when you record your log, and the log it produces... otherwise, it is hard to tell what is what...

[supershift67]

It is the tune and log that has not been pasted in yet. I wanted to make sure that the scan looked ok before I pasted it into the ve table.

[joecar]

+1 what BLK said...

It will make it easier to indicate the before and after tune files in relation to the log file

(i.e. the before tune produced the log, and the log's maps produced the after tune)

:)

[BLK02WS6]

Supershift - I see the lean and rich spikes - you need to figure out what is up with your wideband there... it is doing it frequently enough that it will contaminate your data. Does the PLX have serial cable capability? If so, that is the best way to go. It may be a ground issue or something. That really has to be addressed before yo go much further.

[supershift67]

I am actually using a AEM wideband and it is just set up under PLX pids. It does not have a serial port just analog. I will try to diag the wiring. thanks for the help.

[supershift67]

after going through the scan I notice the timing jumps all over the place also. I am not sure if this is normal either.

[BLK02WS6]

I didn't notice the timing and can't look at the log again until tonight - that may indicate that you have a ground issue as well... I have also seen this issue on vettes where the PCM/harness got wet because of drains clogging up and water getting into the footwell area where the PCM is located...

[BLK02WS6]

I went back through the log and I think you do have an issue with wiring or a ground... there are several places where the signals for TPS, MAP, timing, and the wideband jump either up or down irratically - that is an electrical issue... What kind of car is this in? If it is an F-body, make sure all 3 grounds are on the back of the engine head. If it is a Vette, do a search for ground cleaning over on LS1Tech - there is info out there with a diagram of where the grounds are... other models will have grounds that need to be connected as well, but I'm not as familiar with them.

[supershift67]

Thanks for double checking my tune. I will go over the grounds and wiring for the ecu. this is in a 99 camaro ss. I put the engine in it and I am pretty sure the grounds are all tight but it may be in the connectors at the ecu. I saw some corrosion at the connectors but thought I had it all cleaned up. I will go through the powers and grounds though to see whats up. thanks again.

[BLK02WS6]

You're welcome! Unfortunately the older the cars get, and being taken apart and put back together, make for wiring and connection problems - and they can be tough to track down... post up what you find.

[joecar]

ss67, how easy does your 99 SS spin the tires...?

[supershift67]

pretty easy,why?

[joecar]

In the log I see VSS drop 10 mph in one frame (i.e. 0.1 second), so I was wondering if something was wrong with the log, but if the tires were spinning then the VSS drop is simply the tires gaining traction, so that part of the log ok.


But there are a lot of spikes in the wideband signal (like BLK said) which have to be figured out what is causing this...

[supershift67]

Well, after some checking I figured out that the efilive scan tool on the V1.2 is not reading the analog signal correctly. I hooked up a volt meter to the input and ground that go directly into the efilive tool then watched the voltage on the scan tool with the computer and the scan log is very erratic compared to the wide band gauge and the volt meter. the meter would stay at 1 volt while the scan would jump from .8 to 2.5 Volts ,So something inside the v1 is messed up. I am not sure if I have to upgrade to a V2 or if there is a way to fix it?

[joecar]

ss67,

how is your wideband wired (AFR signal, signal ground, power/ground)...?

Connect a AA battery between V1's signal/ground inputs and see what the scantool shows for the analog voltage (you will need to have the OBD2 cable connected your car/PCM for this to work); then repeat with two AA batteries.

[supershift67]

thanks for the battery idea. I put the battery on the two pins of the v1 and the signal was perfectly clean and steady. So i guess its in the wide band after all. The way I have it hooked up is the analog signal goes to the v1 pin c or e I dont remember which and the ground goes to the v1 on the other pin.hopefully this is the right way to hook it up. I called aem and they say they have never heard of this kind of problem so I will double check the wiring to the wideband or just buy a different wideband.

[joecar]

Check how the wideband is connected to vehicle power/ground... either there is too much voltage drop at each connection, or the wires are too long or too thin, or a picking up ignition noise.