Why is my Main VE Table zeroing out?

[Sinister]

I am new to EFI live. However, I have read the threads for newbies. I also had my cousin do my base tune just to get the car going. It was running on a PCM that had a HP tuners tune in it and it drove fine but I wanted to be able to tune it myself. We used a completely seperate pcm for the EFI live tune. The car will fire up for a few seconds and then die. However, I noticed that I can't even adjust my entire Main VE table by 10%, 20%, etc... as soon as I click on the top left empty box in the table, it zero's out all the cells. If I only click on one cell, it will zero it out on its own. It is doing this whether I am connected to the OBD and power on or if I am just doing it on the laptop and not connected to anything. This is in a 69 Chevelle with a 5.3 DBC, with twin PTE62/62's, on E85, 160lb injectors, no intercooler. Can anyone help me? FWIW the car has been driven with the HPtune for over 1500 miles and ran a 6.83 with 10lbs of boost. It idled fine and drove decent at slow cruising speeds. I just didn't have a way to tune it myself and I want to be able to tune it myself. This is a SD tune, open loop, TH400, 3.90 gears, PTC turbo convertor. I only run one oxygen sensor that runs to my LM1 that I leave running while driving to monitor my AFR's.

This is the main ve table. As you can see it will not even let me put numbers in the very first cell. That cell is zero'd out.
13046

This is what it does when I click on the top left empty cell to highlight all the cells blue. I was going to try and ad or subtract some fuel to get this thing to run. I think my numbers are at least in the ball park but if they are not for E85 please let me know. You can see the cursor.
13047

[joecar]

Hi S,

That is pretty strange...

Can you try that with this latest build: V7 build 204 (http://download.efilive.com/Software/V7.5/EFILiveV7.5.7.204_Setup.exe)

Please install that and let me know if it does the same thing.



Do you have a FlashScan V1 or V2...?

[Sinister]

I have a V1. Thanks for responding. The EFI live is on my Dell computer. I'll go get it and try to install and see if it does the same thing.

[joecar]

No worries.

Ok, let me know either way.

[Sinister]

Okay, I installed it on my computer and opened the tune up. It still did the same thing. As soon as you click in the open cell to highlight all cells blue, you can watch as all the cells slowly decrease in numbers until all cells are zero. This doesn't make sense and I tried a couple of other tunes that I downloaded and they are doing the same thing.

Now what?

[joecar]

I pm'd Tech Support.


Does it also happen on any other tables besides the VE table...?

[joecar]

Also, from the tunetool do Help->About and verify that it says "Build 204".

[ScarabEpic22]

Sounds like a stuck key on a keyboard to me...

[Blacky]

The F7 and F8 keys subtract/add to the highlighted cells. As ScarabEpic22 said, sounds like the F7 key is stuck down.


Regards
Paul

[Sinister]

Okay, I went to help...about and it is the 204 build. I also checked a different table. As soon as I opened the Boost VE Table the corner cell immediately started decreasing in numbers until it got to zero. I did not click on it. The corner cell does it without clicking at all. As soon as the table opens, any table, the corner cell decreases to zero. I also checked all of the keys on the laptop while the computer was off and all of them work. I did not notice any of them sticking and all seemed as though they have the spring in them.

I appreciate you guys helping me out. This is very irritating.

[Blacky]

Download and install this keyboard test software to check if the keyboard is sending F7 key events.
http://www.passmark.com/products/keytest.htm

Regards
Paul

[Sinister]

Will do.

[Sinister]

Yep. That was what it was. The F7 key was sticking. Thanks so much. Now if I can get the table close enough to get the car started. Thanks again.

[Lextech]

WOW, You guys are awesome. I had NO idea what might have been wrong.

JEff

[Sinister]

I agree. Talk about customer service. BTW Jeff, thanks for getting the base tune done for me. I have been reading up on their sticky's as much as I can. Hoping to understand all this stuff soon. Tomorrow I am going to ad or subtract 10,20, 30 percent fuel until I can get it to the point of starting and running at least decent. The E85 and 160lb injectors kind of throws things for a loop.

[ScarabEpic22]

Ha, lucky guess on my part!

Glad you've got it sorted, do you have another PC you could adjust the tune on then just use your laptop with the stuck key to flash/log?

Have you setup your IFR and related injector tables?

[Lextech]

The only injector table we set was the IFR table. He is running 160 lb/hr low impedence injectors through resistors for his setup. We have no idea about how any of the other injector data tables would need to be changed or what info to plug into the parameters.

Jeff

[Sinister]

I went ahead and messed with the tune and I got it to start and run better subtracting 30% from the Main VE Table. I did it 10% at a time until 20 and then went in 5% increments for a total of 30%. I guess you only need to run 30% more fuel to your VE table if you are using stock injectors? The only thing I can think of is since I have 160lb injectors the fuel tables will still be pretty close to stock?

Even with that I couldn't get it to run more than about 5-10 seconds and it still would die immediately if I tried to use the throttle at all. I tried raising and lowering the fuel pressure on the regulator a little and it didn't make much difference. 2am I called it quits.

[Lextech]

You can adjust the fuel pressure for diagnostic purposes to see which way the engine wants to go (richer/leaner). After you figure out if it wants to be richer or leaner, you need to put the fuel pressure somewhere and leave it and then set the IFR table to match the new pressure. Then adjust your VE table up or down a bit. You need to get your wideband interfaced with the software.

Jeff

[slows10]

Did you post your tune? Maybe I missed it. Who makes the injectors? What values did you put into table B4001 and the rest of the injector parameters? Is this a 0411 ecm? Car sounds like a beast.

[Sinister]

13056 Here is my tune. Injectors are Bosch Blue Top 160lb low impedence injectors that I use a resistor to run. Keep in mind I already have another pcm with an HPtuners tune in it and the car idles, and runs great even with resistors instead of a driver box. I just can't tune it myself with HP because I own EFI live. My current pcm is also a 0411. The specs are in my signature but I am sure the pulse, IFR, etc... is not correct. With this tune it will start but only runs for a few seconds. The Main VE table in this tune is 30% less fuel than I started with but that is how far I had to drop it to get it to start.

Thanks for any help....

[Sinister]

13077 Okay, I tried to copy cell by cell my HPtuners tune to the EFI live. I realize the axis are different and made sure to double check. With the attached tune I was able to get it to fire up for a second and that is it. I tried adding more fuel slowly in 10% increments and it did not help. Can someone please tell me what the hell I am doing wrong? This is very frustrating. The main thing I did here was change from .068 to 1.00 across the board on the lamba setting.

[joecar]

Can you install the PCM that ran fine, read the tune from it using EFIlive, and then re-install your experimenting PCM...?

[joecar]

In table C6001 you have to set P0103 to A:1-Trip or Non-Emissions...

it is currently set to Not-Reported which means that no DTC is reported for the induced MAF failure (table C2901,3), which means the PCM is still using your MAF table which has been zeroed out (B5001);

you want to see the DTC P0103 being present as confirmation that the PCM is ignoring the MAF and running from the VE.

[Blacky]

13077 Okay, I tried to copy cell by cell my HPtuners tune to the EFI live. I realize the axis are different and made sure to double check.

There is a tool that allows you to transpose the rows/columns for when you want to copy data to/from HPTuners.

Select the entire table of the table you want to copy. Right click and select "Copy with Labels".
Display the Calibrations window and select the [Conversions] tab page.
Click on [Create new Table].
Click the [Transpose] button to transpose the rows/columns.
Copy/Paste to/from that table when it is in the appropriate row/col format.

Regards
Paul

[schwoch1]

Can you install the PCM that ran fine, read the tune from it using EFIlive, and then re-install your experimenting PCM...?
I was thinking the same thing, unless they used one of their COS, then that may be a problem....

Mike

[Sinister]

I cannot not read the tune using efi live because it is a COS tune. However, I will go out and make the change to the MAF. I do not run a MAF at all, only a 2 bar GM map sensor. I was told it needed to fail to read the VE table I guess I was not making it fail correctly.

Thanks for the info on how to transpose the data. That could have saved a lot of time. I think I have the VE table pretty close though. Let me go try the MAF issue and I will get back.

[Sinister]

13080 We are close!!!! Of course everyone is probably asleep now. lol Okay, I made the change to the P103. It didn't make a bit of difference except.......in this tune. Here is the kicker. My fuel pump is on a toggle switch. I have an ignition switch, and then a push button start like nascar. I figured the car has to be flooded so I turned it over without the fuel pump on. It started, it ran for 3-4 minutes without the fuel pump on. How is that possible? I even reved it a little with the throttle. It ran fine. As soon as I turned the pump on it died, like it was being flooded. I have a second pump but it doesn't run until 4lbs of boost. It ran normal without the pump on so I have to think we are close.. Now what? I am going to delete all other tunes since this one seems to work. Don't want to get them confused.

[scottcmb]

Is the fuel pump switch back to front?......hence was off the whole time you thought it was on and vise versa

[Sinister]

No. When you engage the toggle switch you can hear the fuel pump kick on. It is pretty loud. Plus, the toggle switches turn green when on. I have used this set up for a couple years now. The pump is NOT running whatsoever but the car runs and revs like a normal car right now without the pump on. I am not sure how this is even doing this.

[joecar]

For your injectors (160 lb/hr @ 3 bar) has your IFR table been calculated to account for your measured rail pressure...?


Also, is your FPR located at the fuel rails (MAP-referenced) or at the tank (non-referenced)...?