"controller locked with custom key" DEAD ECM

[DURAtotheMAX]

Well EFILive V8 just bricked an LLY ECM I have here. This is my first time flashing an LLY with V8 and its not going well.

I have a customer here who bought tunes from another tuner. The tuner sent him the DSP5 file in a .ctz format, "semi-locked" (unable to be modified/viewed in V7).

So I figured it would be straight forward to flash it. I click full flash (in V8) and it says "FULL FLASHING FOR E60/LLY CONTROLLERS NOT SUPPORTED". Ok right. Ive been full flashing LLY controllers with EFILive for 6 years, but I guess now its "not supported" all of a sudden.

So I download/update to the latest versions of V7 and V8, update the firmware in my V2, and reload the tune.

I click "full flash", and EFILive begins to unlock/secure the ECM for flashing. It did that for maybe 5 seconds then came up with an error message that said "controller locked with a custom key". I clicked OK, turned the key off, waited for the countdown... then I turned the key ON and the driver info center happened to say "AVG FUEL ECON: --.-"

I knew things were bad when I saw that the cluster apparently wasnt communicating with the ECM. Turned the key to crank, nothing. Dead.

Literally bricked the ECM. Tech 2 wont communicate with it, EFILive wont communicate with it. EFILive says nothing is there. Its as-if the ECM doesnt even exist.

HOW does this happen!!???? It hadnt even started flashing yet! All it did was attempt to unlock the ECM for 5 seconds and BAM. Fried. Awesome. Now I have to eat the $400 for a new ECM just so my customer can leave here with his truck today.

Just for grins, I got a spare LLY ECM off the shelf and threw it in the truck. Flashed it with TIS/Tech 2. Read the tune out with EFILive V7. Changed a couple things, reflashed it with V7, no problems at all. Flashes fine with V7. I opened up V8 and tried flashing it, and it gives me the same error messages, as if the ECM is locked, cant communicate, doesnt know what to do, etc...

Any ideas what is going on? Has anyone seen this before with an E60/LLY?

Is there any chance at recovering this ECM? Eating the cost of a core ECM just because of some tiny glitch in the V8/V7 confusing tuning/flashing combination is frustrating to me.

Im sorry if I come off like an ass with this post...its just that im kind of heated up about this. Im leaving for the Diesel Power Challenge tomorrow, and I promised this customer I could flash his truck before I left. I told him it would only take 10 minutes, and it ended up taking 2 hours of screwing around, a dead ECM, and he left with a stock truck.

Ben

[joecar]

Ben,

I pm'd tech Support.

You're using builds 204/195...?

[Blacky]

Please send me the trace files as described unde the heading "Further Support" from this page:
http://support.efilive.com/kb_article.php?ref=8254-QOGC-9586
Send them to paul@efilive.com

Regards
Paul

[GMPX]

Is there any chance at recovering this ECM?
Have you fitted the ECM back in to the truck and tried full flashing it again with V7?

[DURAtotheMAX]

Have you fitted the ECM back in to the truck and tried full flashing it again with V7?

Yes, EFILive (both V7 and V8) act like the ECM isnt even there. Tech 2 wont communicate with it (just says 'no communications with vehicle, check that ignition is on').

Instrument cluster isnt communicating with the ECM either; Average fuel economy and oil life stuff just reads "---", fuel gauge sits at "empty' (truck actually has 3/4 of a tank in it)

The truck is 100% stock; no aftermarket remote start, no aftermarket radio, no hacked wiring anywhere, etc...

Ill plug the ECM into my bench harness and see if I can get something out of it there, but like I said, im almost positive its braindead, especially if it wont even communicate with the instrument cluster.

So I guess im 2 for 2 with killing LLY ECM's, I thought they were supposed to be pretty difficult to make doorstops out of!! :D

[DURAtotheMAX]

Ben,

I pm'd tech Support.

You're using builds 204/195...?

Yes, I just downloaded them today from the efilive main website 'downloads' section.

[GMPX]

I thought they were supposed to be pretty difficult to make doorstops out of!! :D
Bordering on 'should be impossible' because the LLY ECM has a bootcode section that is never erased or written to by EFILive (or TechII). So the main OS can be totally erased and the ECM should still run off the bootcode to get communications.

[durallymax]

Same thing happened to me yesterday as well. Ironically only a few hours before.Ben.

Got some tunes from a tuner that were set up and locked in V8. The customer waited for me to perform all of the updates. After updating to the latest V8, updating firmware and boot block I attempted to license the ecm. Nothing, kicked me out saying $010a. After some research I found his batteries to be weak. So I stuck the charger on it and voltage was back up. I then tried again and nothing. The truck was dead at this point. Ecm wouldn't communicate truck wouldn't start. I unhooked the batteries and let it sit for 10min. Upon hooking batteries back up, truck started up fine. I decided to try to license the Ecm again. Went perfect. Went to flash the calibration in full flash. Nothing. $0101. No communication. I did have.good voltage at that point. I figured it was the usual quirks. I unhooked everything, rebooted laptop. Still nothing. Tried just a Cal flash and still nothing. Tried talking to it through V7 and still nothing. Unhooked.batteries again and the truck sis start so I sent him on his way with a stock truck before I ended up having to eat the cost of an ECM.

I've tried contacting the tuner about it but have had no response. Truck is completely stock with no butchered wiring. I do not have a bench harness.

Any help would be appreciated. I am going to go try flashing one if the LB7s to see if that works.

Thanks.

[Mitco39]

Since this topic came up the last LLY I did after updating to the new build would refuse to flash in V8. It read the tune out just fine, however when I went to flash with it it would try the first time then say it was unable to detect the serial number. The next time I tried to flash the truck the ecm would be no responsive. The truck would not crank and could not communicate with the computer. Unconnecting the batteries waiting a bit and reconnecting them would bring the ecm back to life. I tried this 2 times before trying the V7.5 and that flash went first try.

I have flashed LLY's with the V8 in the past.

[THEFERMANATOR]

On my LB7 I have the opposite problem. I have found I can no longer flash with the V7 software, but V8 flashes go through fine. I know mine is a bit differrent as it is a pretty bare bones set-up. It is just a bit tricky sometimes getting it to flash my LB7, yet I have had zero problems with LBZ's and LMM's(haven't done an LLY yet, and after all I'm reading I think I will hold off awhile longer before I do).

[Blacky]

Can everyone who is having trouble with flashing LLY controller using V8, please verify that they have firmware V2.07.27 (released April 20 2012) or later in their AutoCals and FlashScans. It was in that build that we updated the keep-alive messages to better suit the LLY "environment".

Regards
Paul

[Mitco39]

I am running V2.07.27 in my V2. Never had issues full flashing LLY's before the last update.

Thanks

Mitch

[dansdieselp]

Sent Paul some trace files. The LLY is the only controller giving us grief. They flash and read fine on the bench harness.

[GMPX]

The LLY has always been a source of troubles, same for the P12 (5 cylinder gas PCM). It's not the PCM though, it's 'something' on the Class2 bus that comes back to life and interrupts the process. Obviously something has changed with EFILive for this to all of a sudden become an issue on the LLY, whatever it is was not deliberate.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

I have not noticed it because 99% of all my ecm flashes are bench flashes.................nothing else to talk to on the bench harness.

If I can have a few local trucks stop by I will test it, anything I can do to help out ???

[Blacky]

I've been working on this issue all day (thanks Dan for sending your log/trace files).

I managed to reproduce the fault and from there was able to track down the cause. The cause was two separate (and seemingly unrelated) issues which when combined caused the LLY flash to fail. As Ross pointed out and as noted by many users it is because one or more (probably all) modules on the bus were coming "back to life" and interfering with the flash process severely enough to terminate it almost immediately. Obviously bench flashing was not affected because there are no other modules to cause problems.

I have made two changes, one to the FlashScan/AutoCal firmware and one to the LLY reflash script files (E60_W.obj and E60_F.obj). Those changes are being tested now. I hope to be able to post the updates tomorrow once we have tested them completely.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

I have not noticed it because 99% of all my ecm flashes are bench flashes.................nothing else to talk to on the bench harness.

If I can have a few local trucks stop by I will test it, anything I can do to help out ???

Tony, I'll send the updates to you and if you can verify that the updates I've made do allow cal-flashing and full-flashing of the LLY controller in the trucks, I'd appreciate it.
Regards
Paul

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Tony, I'll send the updates to you and if you can verify that the updates I've made do allow cal-flashing and full-flashing of the LLY controller in the trucks, I'd appreciate it.
Regards
Paul

I will see if I can get it done today, I have spare ecms in case one gets bricked, I will email you tonight when the truck is tested.

Tony

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Paul,

I sent over some emails and .blx files for you to look at.

Tony

[dansdieselp]

I've been working on this issue all day (thanks Dan for sending your log/trace files).

I managed to reproduce the fault and from there was able to track down the cause. The cause was two separate (and seemingly unrelated) issues which when combined caused the LLY flash to fail. As Ross pointed out and as noted by many users it is because one or more (probably all) modules on the bus were coming "back to life" and interfering with the flash process severely enough to terminate it almost immediately. Obviously bench flashing was not affected because there are no other modules to cause problems.

I have made two changes, one to the FlashScan/AutoCal firmware and one to the LLY reflash script files (E60_W.obj and E60_F.obj). Those changes are being tested now. I hope to be able to post the updates tomorrow once we have tested them completely.

Regards
Paul

You're welcome. I've got two LLY Autocals to send out, but I'm guessing BBR and BBF will likely have the same failure. I'll wait for the update. Thanks Paul.

[IdahoRob]

I just tested a full flash on a LLY ecm and a LLY autocal and it went through no problem with the latest software/firmware. I had a unresponsive LLY ecm that I tested on, I coun't pass through using V8 and the autocal to recover it, so I had to load a tune in using V7.5, then tested and full flashed it using V8 and Autocal.

[dansdieselp]

In the truck or on the bench?

[IdahoRob]

On a bench, but we have sent out over 30 LLY autocals in the last two weeks and have not had one we couldn't get the customer to load using pass-through. I'm not aware of what software versions or firmware versions they are running as there have been so many changes in the last month that our crew can't get enough time with re-configing all these customers autocals everytime there is a firmware update posted to breath.

Correction, we did have one LLY ecm that the customer had to send in for recovery on my bench harness using V7.5. Not sure what happened on that one.

[andrewjamesbond1]

What's the best way to keep these other modules from interrupting the process? Can we pull fuses as a possibly precaution?

[Blacky]

What's the best way to keep these other modules from interrupting the process? Can we pull fuses as a possibly precaution?

The best way is for us to get our flash process correct, which I am confident is fixed in the latest release.

It is almost impossible to kill the LLY (E60 controller) even during a full flash, so the simplest option right now would be to use the latest software and firmware to flash the LLY without pulling fuses. If for some (as yet) unknown reason the flash fails, then pulling fuses (radio, BCM, ABS are the most likely culprits) may allow the ECM to be recovered - you may also have to reboot the ECM by disconnecting the battery. So now that the problem is fixed, there should be no need to pull fuses unless something fails.

Note, that is not the case for the LB7. During a full flash if it fails in the first 10-15 seconds there is a high chance that the PCM will be dead. If a full flash fails on the LB7 the most important thing to do is to not remove battery power. Instead retry the flash procedure using the V8 or V7 software until it succeeds. The same goes for most other VPW controllers.

Regards
Paul

[DURAtotheMAX]

I pulled the ECM out and put it on my bench harness. After trying with multiple times with V8, the ECM still appeared dead. I tried reading/writing/checking status several times (restarted EFILive several times too, disconnected/reconnected the V2 etc), and on the third try, I was finally able to get V7 to read out the tune from the LLY ECM as if nothing was wrong.

Then I tried a test flash with V7, worked fine.

Then I tried a full flash with V8, didnt work. Said "invalid serial number", and that the controller was locked with a custom key...when it clearly is not (and has never been) locked. I tried 6 more times, tried using $FFFF key, etc. And finally on the 7th try, it finally seemed to full flash.

It supposedly completed the full flash successfully...even though when the countdown timer still had about 1:10 left, it immediately jumped to "finished". I was a bit suspicious when that happened, so Im currently re-reading the tune back out of the ECM with V7 to verify that V8 full-flashed the ECM correctly....

hmm

ben

[Blacky]

That description fits with the symptoms of the issue I'm working on solving right now...
See my post #13 here http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?19283-Killed-my-2nd-ECU-WTF&p=169915#post169915

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

Then I tried a full flash with V8, didnt work. Said "invalid serial number", and that the controller was locked with a custom key...when it clearly is not (and has never been) locked. I tried 6 more times, tried using $FFFF key, etc. And finally on the 7th try, it finally seemed to full flash.

Can you please send me the *.htx trace file for the failed and successful V8 flashes, thanks.
Send to paul@efilive.com

Regards
Paul

[DURAtotheMAX]

Can you please send me the *.htx trace file for the failed and successful V8 flashes, thanks.
Send to paul@efilive.com

Regards
Paul

Email sent!

thanks again Paul

Ben