Need some help (newbie alert)

[Mikz86ta]

Hello, I am Michel and new to EFILive. I have done alot of old school tuning, automotive mechanics and electical work. The tuning is relatively new to me in terms of these programs, but I am very familiar with the workings of the modern auto.
I have for the past 6 mos been using a used JET DST program and had fun with it. Just bought EFI Live V1 and so far its cool. I read may pages B4 signing on the forum B4 I purchased and even been reading tutorials and tips/tricks and more this past week. I actually just used the tuner program for the first time yesterday as I waited to familiarize myself B4 jumping in.
Other than listed below as changes I have already made with EFI Live, I used the JET to increase PE and make it come on sooner and played with DFCO. I never got around to doing timing. Always heard do fuel then timing anyways.

I did the basics I needed to do....copied stock tune to file, changed gear ratio info, changed tire size, got rid of annoying upshift light, deleted rear O2 senseor (PO420) and upped my idle RPM. The latter I have not tested yet to see if I did it right. Truck hates the 650 RPM stock idle..lol I got it 750 which it purrs nicely at.

For reference I am worrking with V1, have a 2003 Vortec S10 4.3L with 5sp manual. Has the LS1 style PCM (green/blue connectors).
Mods are CAIntake, Edelbrock headers, no cat, Hooker muffler and dump, underdrive crank, e-fan, 1.52 rockers, Mallory Ign box, and a few other bolt-ons.
Not installed yet : Wynjammer supercharger with the 36lb poppet injector upgrade.
I want to play with the truck B4 doing the SC so I am more acclimated to the tuning program.


So now for 2 questions that I have right now...and Im sure more to come later.

1. How do you change the readings from Kilometers per hour to MPH? And they stay that way. Im in the states so easier for me?
2. How do you raise the speed limiter? I searched and saw a few threads but for different PCM types. However those seem different and I dont think its the same. I think I found it but one list with ETC and other list without ETC. Any info?


I appreciate the helpful info

[joecar]

Hi Mik, welcome to the forum :cheers:

answers to your questions:

1. changing KMH to MPH:

- in scantool, on PIDs tab, click the Units column's heading (sorts by Units), click it again, highlight the slab of KMH rows (use Ctrl-Click to accumulate highlighted rows), then on the highlight go rightclick->Imperial; exit scantool.

- in tunetool, go Edit->Configure Display Units, click on Data Units column's heading, click it again, highlight the slab of rows having KMH as Data Unit, on the highlight go rightclick->Data Value Units->Imperial; repeat for Col Units (Column Label units); repeat for Row Units (Row Label units); click OK; exit tunetool.


2. what year/model/vehicle/PCM...?

maybe look at H0109 and H0111 (type these into the Search box in the tunetool).

[Mikz86ta]

Thx joe! I read some of your post and respect your help you give.

In scantool it is already set Imperial. But in Tune I was going to change my speed limiter and it was in metric. I can convert but takes more time so I needed to change that.
In tune I changed it all ok. Thx. But I noticed in some items there is 2 readings. Like throttle cracker...so both changed. Thats ok tho I know now how to fine tune tht.
Dashboard will change with what I did as well?

Its a 2003 S10, 4.3L 5speed, and has a LS1 PCM with blue/green plugs. 0411 is last 4 digits in the service tag.

H0111 IS in there but like I said it says Max Vehicle Speed 'with ETC'. There is one that is 'non ETC'...H0109

Ok to change both?

[Mikz86ta]

What all to delete rear O2? I thought I had it but my code popped back up :(
tht I found it under the folders in the left....Eng Diagnostics >Eng DTC Processing>PO420>disable.



Oh, nevermind. I think I found under the other one...Eng MIL Enable>PO420 as well. Guess I needed to change tht to (not reported)

[joecar]

Ah... the H segment is in Metric only and can't be changed (i.e. H0109, H0111 are in km/h only).

Yes, you can change both H0109 and H0111 (make them the same value).

Yes, set it to Not-Reported in C6001.

[Mikz86ta]

I think I got it. Didnt find C6001 tho.


I need to get some time and also figure out how to do a logfile and do a scan and log. Then I can post up and find out more about what I can start to safely adjust on.
I may try to get PE in early lke I did before

[slows10]

Hi, mike you say it is an 03 pcm with blue green connectors and it says 0411 on the tag? I dont think it can be both. An 0411 ecm is a 512 mb ecm and has red blue connectors. An ecm with blue greenplugs is a 1mb ecm that was 2003 up in a S10. The 0411 was a 2002 ecm. They are not direct swaps. A 2003 S10 did not come with a 0411 ecm as far as I am aware.

[Mikz86ta]

I know for sure it has a blue one because I just had it off recently (was gonna buy HPT and modded the EGR pin for WB to go to) and had the Blue plug apart to Pin it.
Lemme find a pic of my service tag I took pic of a long time ago.
I ordered the truck new and have been the sole owner since 2003. Ordered and built specific in Shreveport in late 2003.

[Mikz86ta]

Ok my bad...lol
Someone used a spare PCM pic I had on file and said it was my stock one..on the S10Forum. I recalled tht pic and it said 0411. I assumed it was my original.
Below is a pic of my stock PCM....sorry abt the confusion
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/General/S10-PCM1original.jpg

[Mikz86ta]

Tuning PE:

What is the difference in Hot and Normal PE Mode enable?

I modified Normal for now to come in early (TPS) at higher RPM. It stock was 90%TPS and I gradually lowered the TPS input starting at 1600RPM for starters.
Im unsure about the HOT mode.
I also didnt touch the PE rate
I lowered bypass RPM and delay


Also I see Lean Cruise in the modify section. But there is a high MPH enable/disable value and time/timer/out rate are all 0. Does tht mean its not setup but available to do, not an option or what?

With manual, does Tq Limiting and/or Abuse Mgmt used?

[slows10]

When the ect gets above a certain point it enters hot mode pe fueling. Say your temp gets to 220( example) or better, the factory enters different pe mixtures then a normal ect. Usually richer to help save the engine. The tables you are modifying all have descriptions on what they do. Like hot mode pe, the desription is right there to read and know what it does. As far as lean cruise do a search its been covered tons over the last few years.

[slows10]

Also you can change B3608 and B3609 to all zero. This effects the delay for pe.

[Mikz86ta]

Ok, I had adjusted B3608 down to 2seconds. Saw B3609 before but dindt know about it. Got both at 0.

Just realized there is a few more Rear O2 MIL, etc I needed to turn off. I had only done PO420 since I got no cat but forgot that my rear O2 (still installed and connected) developed a bad heating circuit a few months ago. So it was trippin the MIL still. Got all Sensor2 Off now.

Searched Lean Cruise..but never seen if it was active on my PCM. I know DFCO is active.

Thx for the help!

[joecar]

BTW: P0420 is a catalyst code, not a rear O2 code.

[joecar]

Lean Cruise is internally disabled on US PCM's.

[Mikz86ta]

Oh ok, so Lean Cruise is not available to enable? No biggie just curious.

Yea I had PO420 (catalyst effeciency below threshold) when I had a hi-flow cat installed once and always turned the code off. Now with no cat same.

[slows10]

Is a cax not available Joecar?
Lean cruise is not setup from the factory in us vehicles. But what joecarmight have forgot to mention is it is easily installed with a add on file(cax I believe) available on this forum. Then just populate the lean cruise tables and you should be all set to go. Maybe a cax is only available with an 0411 ecm?? Dont know, joecar kinda left us hanging with his short post.

[slows10]

Hate to tell a guy to search if something just is not there, but from what I read lean cruise is rather quick and simple to get going in us based ecms. Someone may have to build a cax for your os? not sure.

[Mikz86ta]

Ahh ok. Well honestly thats beyond my current skillset with tuning right now it seems. Ill wait untill I master it better before adding stuff like tht.

I did PE today and since I am familiar with it from doing it on DST, I will in the next few days get that dialed in better.
Next I want to learn how to datalog. Still havent figured that one out yet with selecting the PIDs and whatnot.
Then timing. Then....who knows :)

[slows10]

It is alot to master. I am far from a pro tuner but what I can say is just spend the time reading. Im sure you have already. Have you read the tune tool and scan tool manuals yet? They are pretty good for learning things like setting up maps,dashboards,etc. When you connect to the scan tool on your truck you can validate the pids for your ecm. Then you can do some logging, and actually see what the ecm is doing.

[joecar]

Is a cax not available Joecar?
Lean cruise is not setup from the factory in us vehicles. But what joecarmight have forgot to mention is it is easily installed with a add on file(cax I believe) available on this forum. Then just populate the lean cruise tables and you should be all set to go. Maybe a cax is only available with an 0411 ecm?? Dont know, joecar kinda left us hanging with his short post.There are Lean Cruise cax files for a few OS's for 0411 PCM's only...

see posts #8 and #10 here: cax-file-updates (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9143-cax-file-updates)

copy the cax file to that folder, restart the tunetool, enable/populate LC, do a full flash.


sorry, I got distracted earlier today and I forgot to come back to this thread :doh:

[joecar]

Yes, read the scantool/tunetool pdf's, and the other pdf's in the V7/V8 install directories.

Also see here: Collecting-links-to-tutorial-material-scattered-in-other-sections (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?2990-Collecting-links-to-tutorial-material-scattered-in-other-sections)

[Mikz86ta]

Yup, read both 2x's and the onlne tutorials. Need to go over the scan tool ones again tho and get some seat time loged on in the truck. Sunday I have only day off from work tho

[Mikz86ta]

Thx Joe

[Mikz86ta]

Read the AutoVE tutorial last night. I want to try to do a few DataLogs B4 I get started on that.
Oh one thing I think is ok to do ( correct me if I am wrong ) But I was going to change the AFR from 14.68 which is what it is stock to 14.3 or so since we have E10 pretty exclusively at our local gas stations.
Other than tht I am not going to make any more changes. As per my thread u see I only changed speed corrcection (gears and tire swap), speed limiter, deleted rear O2 and adjusted PE.
I am connecting my AEM WB tonight. I am doing the White wire from it to input E (EXT.AD1) on my V1 interface. Then I have to setup? Or just select the PID in Scan Tool? I read that AEM isnt setup in V1 but was the same as PLX? I dont quite understand if I need to set it up prior to taking the readings. I understand the operation of it tho :)

[Mikz86ta]

anyone?

I am connecting my AEM WB tonight. I am doing the White wire from it to input E (EXT.AD1) on my V1 interface. Then I have to setup? Or just select the PID in Scan Tool? I read that AEM isnt setup in V1 but was the same as PLX? I dont quite understand if I need to set it up prior to taking the readings. I understand the operation of it tho

[joecar]

Yes, set B3601 to something like 14.2 for E10.

Yes, the AEM should be the same as the PLX... to be sure, look at the AEM user manual and post 2 voltage:afr points.

Since you're suing E10 (AFR 14.2), you will need to make a calc pids that converts the AEM/PLX AFR pid to Lambda (for tuning) and to true AFR (for viewing)...

the wideband assumes the stoich AFR is 14.7... so you divide CALC.AFR_PLX1 by 14.7 to obtain Lambda, and then multiply Lambda by 14.2 to obtain the true AFR of E10 fuel.

(I can help you set up a calc pid)

[Mikz86ta]

14.32 is where I am at rt now with AFR.
I will ck the AEM manual at the shop tomorrow. I dont have it here with me rt now at home.
I will def need help on the calc thing..lol

[Mikz86ta]

IDK what u mean by post 2 voltage :afr points? U want me to copy a couple of the manuals numbers here?

Like O2 volts = 1.40 / Lambda = 0.874 / Gas = 12.8afr / Ethanol = 7.87ar
And O2 volts = 3.90 / Lambda = 1.216 / Gas = 17.8afr / Ethanol = 10.94

Yes walk me thru the Calc PID please

[joecar]

Yes, that's it.

Does the AEM have a setting/switch for it to output for E10 (gasoline with 10% ethanol) vs E00 (straight gasoline)...?

[Mikz86ta]

I dont think so, there is a rotational switch on the back (rheostat?) but I thnk it is for calibration of the actual gauge.
Here is a link to the Manual Online : http://www.schnitzracing.com/manuals/AEMWBK.pdf

This is some info from the manual:

For your reference
Below is the multiplier for calculating the Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) of common fuels from the
Lambda value.
Gasoline AFR = Lambda x 14.64
Methanol AFR = Lambda x 6.47
Propane AFR = Lambda x 15.7
Ethanol AFR = Lambda x 9.00
CNG AFR = Lambda x 14.5

[joecar]

Yep, that's the same as the PLX (0V=AFR10, 5V=AFR20)...

copy attached calc_pids.txt file to the folder My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration

then start the scantool and select these pids: GM.EQIVRATIO, CALC.AFR_PLX1, CALC.WO2BEN (the last being the BEN pid for correcting VE and MAF tables).

[Mikz86ta]

Ok cool.
I already had a document in tht folder with same title but it was fairly empty. Replaced with the one u sent me.
So the calc file u sent me...its automatically factored in to the PID selection u just told me to add? Trying to understand

I kept the same PIDs in scantool I had saved from my prior DataLog (other thread) and added these 3. The 2nd one wasnt 'known' but I made it add anyways.
I am doing thins offline to the truck BTW. I will connect and try it out tomorrow. Unless theres more instructions. Thx
Fill me in on what I just did and the theory pls. Thanks a bunch!

[joecar]

That doc add the new calc pids, you have to select them to see them.

On the PIDs tab, do rightclick->More Info on the pid that says Unknown, this will show why it is unknown.

[Mikz86ta]

Under more info....
Says not valid because required peramiter (EXT_AD1), at position 10 not selected

Thats the only selected PID with a red X. Which is description 'Wide Band AFR1-PLX'

[Mikz86ta]

My wideband is connected white wire of AEM (analog out 0-5v) to the V1 3 pin connector in slot E (EXT.AD1) for the record

[joecar]

Under more info....
Says not valid because required peramiter (EXT_AD1), at position 10 not selected

Thats the only selected PID with a red X. Which is description 'Wide Band AFR1-PLX'


You need to select the pid EXT.AD1.

[joecar]

My wideband is connected white wire of AEM (analog out 0-5v) to the V1 3 pin connector in slot E (EXT.AD1) for the recordDo you have the wideband signal ground connected to pin D on the V1 3-pin connector...?

[Mikz86ta]

Ahh ok, selected EXT.AD1 and its no more red X. Thx

My WB has
Red 12v sw
Black Gnd
White 0-5v out which is to the EXT.AD1 as mentioned
Blue Serial out (not used)

Do I need to piggyback/parallel the Gnd from the chassis/aem gauge to the V1 conector as well? Pin D?

[joecar]

Compare the pid EXT.AD1 with and without pin D on the V1 3-pin connector connected to wideband ground... if there's no difference then leave pin D disconnected.

( if the wideband signal ground is tied to battery/chassis ground, then pin D may not be required;
if the wideband signal ground is floating, then pid D is required ).

[Mikz86ta]

Okies, I will test it out today and let ya know. Thank you

[Mikz86ta]

I think I got it correct. I will post up a test log I did where I had selected those PIDs to 'see' the WBO2 thru ScanTool.
Also check it out and see about the amount of PIDs. Someone said I had too few last time to get good data. I counted 24 with the 3 or 4 I have concerning the WBO2 in the mix. Is that ok?

Secondly, I reset my LTFT. While testing and after I did a few things underhood to try and see if I had a vacc leak, my trims seem to be better. Like last log I was viewing it showed around 10 LTFT and close to 0 STFT. Like never went Neg but on 0 and 3.2 was highest. Is that more normal?

I just rechecked the CAI clamps, did the carb cleaner test (nada), stethescope test (nada), checked/tightened the upper/lower manifold bolts and chkd the lower manifold bolts as well. I wanted to ck the purge stuff but need to read more on it. Wish I has a smoke tester :(

[Mikz86ta]

This was just sitting idle earlier after messing with the underhood purge solenoid plug and tubes. Just for reference tho I had erased LTFT beforehand. IDK if they are high or normal in this log. Kinda low..typically and earlier B4 erased LTFT, they were still 18 range

[Mikz86ta]

This was my last one. I had cheked the bolts on the manifold and such and tried the carb cleaner test/etc. Not ssure they r much better. U think they still are seeing some error in unmetered air?


Another note. I been reading up on calibrating MAF since I have a cold air kit. Stock MAF (not descreened or ported). But hear that there is only a small error reported typically on a CAI. Is that true? And does my trims reflect just that or more?

Thx, Michel

[joecar]

In those 2 logs, are you resetting the LTFT's...?

[joecar]

If you reduce the pid channel count to 24 or less (goto PIDs tab, see bottom) you can increase the sample rate to maximum (10 S/s for LS1B).

[Mikz86ta]

IDK. I went in Scantool to Calibration Tab up top, selected same as (sft/ctrl/f2) and at the bottom of the new window is Reset, Refresh, Close, Etc tabs. I selecred Reset.
Also saw it some place else.

Am I not doing it right? I know it takes a few cycles to set new LTFT once reset

[joecar]

Yes, those logs show the LTFT's resetting to zero and I was wondering if you had commanded the LTFT reset.

[Mikz86ta]

My PID count says 24 , channels 25 and packets 5. I dont see anything that allows me to change sample rate. Not connected rt now to trk just reviewing

[Mikz86ta]

Yea, I found that tab and the reset on my own just browsing the scantool.

There is 0% in all the cells. There is a parens around a number in red in each cell that varies by cell tho.

[joecar]

Can you post a screenshot of that...

[Mikz86ta]

I will try

[joecar]

This may help: Hosting-an-Image (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image)

[Mikz86ta]

True. Here is a shot of one of my logs today, and the extra window with the LTFT info. The red numbers, etc.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/General/EFILiveScreenshot1.jpg

[Mikz86ta]

Off topic a tad. I realized I had a screenshot from JET DST in which I had a question about the stock tune my truck has in reference to spark.
The screenshot below I had taken months back, it shows the graph 3d of my spark. Notice the odd dip in Low RPM/Low MAF area. Any reason why? I played with 'smoothng' in EFILive the other day to bring that dip up higher but never saved it. Just practiced using the tuner tools.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/General/DSTscreen2.jpg

[joecar]

Yea, I found that tab and the reset on my own just browsing the scantool.

There is 0% in all the cells. There is a parens around a number in red in each cell that varies by cell tho.Oh, the numbers in parens are the cell number (your screenshot helped me understand what you were asking)...

e.g. cells 0-15 are the closed loop LTFT's, cell 22 is the LTFT used for WOT.

If you log the pid GM.FTC you can follow that chart.

[Gregs]

Off topic a tad. I realized I had a screenshot from JET DST in which I had a question about the stock tune my truck has in reference to spark.
The screenshot below I had taken months back, it shows the graph 3d of my spark. Notice the odd dip in Low RPM/Low MAF area. Any reason why? I played with 'smoothng' in EFILive the other day to bring that dip up higher but never saved it. Just practiced using the tuner tools.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/General/DSTscreen2.jpg


i just looked at a stock tune from tune file depot for an 03 s10 and to me it looks like those cells got accidentally changed.

13228

[Mikz86ta]

Haha, yea I see tht now. Dang, Im blind.
Does the bank 1 and 2 tab just switch the info from obviously the reading on one side and the other?
Like and if so, can tht be used to determine a problem....if say theres a PE/WOT issue on one bank by selecting the seperate bank?

I will ck out tht PID for reference tomorrow if I can.

Any thoughts on the second screen shot and spark dip? And smoothing it out?

[Mikz86ta]

i just looked at a stock tune from tune file depot for an 03 s10 and to me it looks like those cells got accidentally changed.

13228

Thx Greg. Well I bought the truck new in 2003. Ordered it actually. I had a JET Handheld for a while since 2005 on it. It saved stock tune and I had loaded the mid and high octane tunes in the time I had it. When I got the JET DST program, I reloaded the stock tune to the PCM and sold the handheld tuner. Then copied stock tune with DST and never altered much with it except PE and some DFCO. Same when I got EFILive, I loaded stock tune back to PCM and started fresh once again with EFI. I never altered tht table. Weird huh? Thx for the attached stock tune chart!
Its something I want to play with either smoothing, copy the attached graph or just starting fresh. I want to do a MAF calibration and VE tho first I think.
I also have a HPT file sent by a friend with HPTuners of a 03 4.3 he tuned for someone. I got the HPT Demo now so I can view the HPT file and see if theres much differences there as well. Good viewing materials :)

[Mikz86ta]

Actually, you know when I am driving sometimes. I can actually feel the power come on better around 2000RPM. Its like a 'boost' if you will. Looking at those tables in comparison, the 0.08 column is same but the .12 column differs (mine is lower) from 800-1800RPM as is the .16 column 600-2000 and so forth for a few rows. I cant remember the actual condition (like what gear and how much throttle input) but its while moving at speed and then adding throttle.
I am going to copy and do a test file load and drive a few days. But I have a strong feeling I am going to like the result.

Thanks!!

[joecar]

Haha, yea I see tht now. Dang, Im blind.
Does the bank 1 and 2 tab just switch the info from obviously the reading on one side and the other?
Like and if so, can tht be used to determine a problem....if say theres a PE/WOT issue on one bank by selecting the seperate bank?

I will ck out tht PID for reference tomorrow if I can.

Any thoughts on the second screen shot and spark dip? And smoothing it out?Yes.

[Mikz86ta]

:thumb_yello:

[Mikz86ta]

I copied High and Low Octane tables from that other stock tune and pasted the values to mine. Theres some better feeling in the truck.

One issue I am seeing is there is a good amount of KR under load. I can easily make it occur with manual. Hold 4th or 5th and give it moderate to heavy throttle. High load basically. Not sure if the best approach is to adjust spark tables (and IDK the best way to do tht...maybe create some type of MAP in DataLog and record KR in a RPM vs MAP chart?) or to adjust fueling or to adjust the PE Tables.
Only PE I ever adjusted was the delay RPM and delay seconds. I am at 2000RPM on delay RPM and was asked 'why not make it 0'...I had no answer why or why not too

[Mikz86ta]

Today I logged a trip across town. Tried to focus on spark, KR with TPS/MAP/RPM and some afr inputs. Not sure if I should have put another factor in or logged another PID. The dashboard I can only see 16 anyways
Log posted below

[Gregs]

Today I logged a trip across town. Tried to focus on spark, KR with TPS/MAP/RPM and some afr inputs. Not sure if I should have put another factor in or logged another PID. The dashboard I can only see 16 anyways
Log posted below

Real knocks at frame 740, 1235. The rest are probably false knock.

You could try retarding advance a little in the affected cells. Remember that it will pull more advance than needed if it knocks so you if you were getting 4* in a particular cell that doesn't mean you have to pull 4* in that cell to make it go away.

There should be a predefined map, I think its called something like high_low spark retard. You will have to log cylinder air to make the map work though.

[joecar]

Comments:
- you exceeded 24 pid channels, which is ok for viewing but not for tuning (slows down sample rate)(can remove the pid ECT);
- your wideband indicates you're lean;
- your NBO2 sensors are not swinging high enough (indicates lean) or fast enough (indicates old);
- you may be getting knock due to: lean, too much timing, high intake temperature.

[Mikz86ta]

Comments:
- you exceeded 24 pid channels, which is ok for viewing but not for tuning (slows down sample rate)(can remove the pid ECT);Ok didnt realize I had. Oops. Otherwise I was ok for the mostpart?
- your wideband indicates you're lean;Dang, I cant figure out the lean :( I will try again on the carb cleaner looking for a vaccum leak. Is there a way to isolate the EVAP in case it is that? I have one purge solenoid off the manifold and saw one at the tank/evap box area.
- your NBO2 sensors are not swinging high enough (indicates lean) or fast enough (indicates old);Wow, I replaced them a couple years back. They were Standard brand. I guess maybe get some better ones?
- you may be getting knock due to: lean, too much timing, high intake temperature.True. Always reverts back to a lean condition..dang. Imma call some places and see if they can do a 'smoke' test

[Mikz86ta]

Real knocks at frame 740, 1235. The rest are probably false knock. I hear 4.3 is bad about false knocks due to the balance shaft. I saw where in my settings I have listed a LS2 type knock sensor and not the LS1 type which is listed as well. One is Flat Response (ls2) and other is resonant. Guess its correct for my truck?

You could try retarding advance a little in the affected cells. Remember that it will pull more advance than needed if it knocks so you if you were getting 4* in a particular cell that doesn't mean you have to pull 4* in that cell to make it go away. Is there a way to .MAP. it so its easy to see the cells on a graph?

There should be a predefined map, I think its called something like high_low spark retard. You will have to log cylinder air to make the map work though.I will search later tonight. Thx for the lead

[slows10]

I am not trying to sound like a jerk, but now a smoke test?? How many miles on the engine? Try a leakdown test or a comp test.Does the truck run crappy? Does the engine shake at idle? How many miles on the o2's. Are they good quality. Did you tape a mechanical gauge to your windshield and go for a drive. An electric sensor wont cut it unless it is first verified by a mech gauge. Last time I looked at your logs a few days back you were avging 16.5 afr. Did you add to the ve and maf tables. Have you done any of the auto ve or calc vet corrections to your tables? Why play around with your timing cells? Because you have some knock? You are lean. Need to fix that first. I would not hesitate to put brand new quality o2 sensors in asap.Denso/Ngk or even the $120 bosch. If you are paying $70 or less for an o2 sensor it is probably low quality. Then verify fuel pressure.What is your fuel pressure at now? You may just be going around in circles for nothing.

[Mikz86ta]

85k miles, runs good but could be better mileage, idle is good (and I have tighter JTR conversion mounts), the O2 I will have to ck my maint logs, and no I have not touched the MAF/VE tables at all. Tho I want to for the cold air ki as I hear 10% lean is common wit them.
I am trying to borrow a Mech FP Gauge in the next few days.
I def realize I need to fix issue 1st. I ask questions tho doesnt mean Im going to jump in and start changing stuff.

[Mikz86ta]

O2 upstreams replaced at 68k miles. 85k miles on it now.

[Mikz86ta]

Searching around with the tuner deopt file I loaded to compare, I found a couple more spark tabels that were different and wanted some input.
My truck is Manual. The spare sample file is Auto. IDK if there is a reason for a difference there or should I copy/paste the seemingly correct tables on the sample 2003 S10 4.3 file to my truck. Again , the trans is the only diefference and all other file/tables are the same. I looked at a 2004 4.3 S10 file as well and it differs from mine as well...tho it was auto as well.

Below we are looking at the Base Spark in Gear (B5932). Note that Base Spark in Park/Neutral is also different.

Mine (all over the place)
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/General/S10-sparkscreenmanual.jpg
Sample file (very flat)
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/General/S10-sparkscreenauto.jpg

Should I use the same on my manual? My octane tables were off but IDK if this is off as well.

[slows10]

How would your spark tables differ from stock? Have you ever adjusted any spark tables before? Did someone with hp tuners adjust something for you before? I have a 100% bone stock S10 4.3 manual file that I pulled myself. I will look later to see how they differ from yours. I know you have the 1mb ecm and mine is a 512mb but it should be ok to compare the base spark tables and some others. Manual S10 files are pretty hard to find. Did you read out your stock tune and save it be4 making any changes?

[slows10]

It also would help if you posted your stock tune when looking for help as well as the logs. Makes it much easier for people to see what your settings are to help. You dont have to just a suggestion.

[Mikz86ta]

How would your spark tables differ from stock? Have you ever adjusted any spark tables before? Did someone with hp tuners adjust something for you before? I have a 100% bone stock S10 4.3 manual file that I pulled myself. I will look later to see how they differ from yours. I know you have the 1mb ecm and mine is a 512mb but it should be ok to compare the base spark tables and some others. Manual S10 files are pretty hard to find. Did you read out your stock tune and save it be4 making any changes?

Yes please look. Un less there was an error with the reloading of the JET Handheld tuner file or an error on my part when doing JET DST. But on DST I never altered spark at all and furthermore I always save the file under a different name to note changes and have the stock file to refer to.

Again, on EFILive, I have my stock tune file copied and saved withour any mods. I have 4 different files with changes currently

[Mikz86ta]

So just 'attach' my stock tune file?

[Gregs]

So just 'attach' my stock tune file?

Yep, and any logs that were done with that tune loaded

[Mikz86ta]

Ok. I looked at my stock tune and as far as that perticular query (spark in gear and spark in park/neutral), my stock tune is the same as the screen shot I posted above.
Lemme try attach my tune below.

[Mikz86ta]

Above is my stock tune.

I have since altered for:
Tire and gear changes.
Removed the upshift light.
Deleted the code for the rear O2 or just made it now light the MIL.
Raised curb idle.
Speed limiter raised.
Reduced PE delay.
And as of recently corrected the Spark Table as in my previous posting on here.


I want to do some MAF Cal and VE AutoCal one day. Yet I want to find out if there is something wrong with my truck and fix it.
O2 were swapped at 68k and now I have 85k miles. Fuel filter gets changed 2xs a year and was done in Jan. I am waiting to borrow a FP gauge..I have electric in trk but dt trust its accuracy. I have been trying the carb cleaner trick to find a vaccum leak and so far nada. I did the STFT test where u read it idle and then raist the RPMs to 1500/1600 and see. But I dont get much feedback on my results. I use FI cleaner abt every 4mos. Plugs are NGK TR5 gapped at .050 rt now. Wires are new. cap and coil good. Its very well maintained trk by far.

Below is my current mods for the record.
K&N cold air intake, CFM-Tech TB Blade, Comp 1.52 ProMag roller rockers, 180* stat, e-fans, underdrive crank pulley, AD244 alternator, Racetronix FP wire harness upgraded recently (hotwire kit), Edelbrock headers and y-pipe, no cat, Hooker SComp muffler and dump, AEM Wideband right where the y-merge is, MSD coil, MSD wires, Mallory Hi6 ign box and thats about it as far as engine.

I realize my O2 were Standard brand and maybe cheaper than NGK, but they arent old and dont think they would fail or be lazy so soon. If theres a way to test, LMK. I have the stock GM ones still I could use as a swap and test.
I realize the fuel pumps on these are bad for goin g out but never heard of one slowly dying. Maybe thats the case.
As far as my mileage (16mpg) being low and fuel trims high, I was told to approach it as a vaccum leak issue and not fueling.

[joecar]

Try this (Calc.VET): A-New-Twist-on-CALC-VE-Table-Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-A-New-Twist-on-CALC-VE-Table-Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table&p=135867#post135867)


More info (see post #29): Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes&p=127351#post127351)

[Mikz86ta]

Thx Joe. I wanna fix the problem there seems to be first. Unless u think its ok to do tht right now?


I saw like 4 differnet ways to to VE tuning or maybe it was NAF tuning. lol Everyone has a trick. I copied and DOC them all for future :)

[slows10]

Ok, I see you are good about maintenance on your truck.You, we ,us will get ifigured out soon.Get setup with the calc vet that joecar linked and I will only butt in when only neccesary lol.

[Mikz86ta]

LOL, I appreciate input and thoughts. IDK if its something I am overlooking or what. Frustrating to say the least

[Gregs]

Thx Joe. I wanna fix the problem there seems to be first. Unless u think its ok to do tht right now?


I saw like 4 differnet ways to to VE tuning or maybe it was NAF tuning. lol Everyone has a trick. I copied and DOC them all for future :)

-sorry if I missed the post but what problems are you having?
-I would recommend changing the high octane map in the stock tune for the one I posted. My suspicion is that your stock tune is not stock or was corrupted by one of the previous tuning tools. The dip on the high octane map doesn't look factory; not saying that oems don't have jagged maps sometimes... ahem... Cummins.
-reduce your pids to 24 channels please so we can look at a good log

[Mikz86ta]

Gregs : I have low fuel milage (16-14 MPG) for one, and a friend data logged my truck last year and saw very high LTFT. About 19-20 range. I have since seen high teens regularly. If it wasnt for those 2 things, I would gladly start to do some real tuning. I have been told I have a vaccum leak based on my findings....but have yet to find any vacc leak. I have been pointed towards a lazy O2 sensor or a sluggish fuel pump. Driving and power-wise, I really dont have much complaints. The other tell tale of a possible issue is a KR. As posted in the last log I attached, you can see 2 places where from a cruise to a slight load (RPM vs. MAP) I get a substansial KR (up to 6* or so).

I took the 2003 S10 4.3 Auto file I found at Tune Depot, and applies the High and Low Octane scales to my current tune. The last logfile in which I still had the KR in the same spot was done after I loaded the seemingly correct Spark Tables in Hi and Lo Octane. I actually looked at a 2004 tune to see if it was the same. So far 3 tunes (other than mine) I have viewed were the same in all Spark Tables. Mine is different in High/Lo Octane and also in the afformentioned Spark IN Gear / Spark in Park-Neutral Tables.
I only corrected / made same as the sample tunes the Hi and Lo Octane Spark Tables.
I was hesitant to do the Spark in Park and Spark in Neutral/Gear Tables since there was a transmission difference. That was one question I wanted answered tht so far no one has commeneted on. I may look up a LS1 Fbody tune with Auto and compare it to Manual and see if there is asimilarity or difference in those. I cant find a spare 4.3 Manual tune to compare mine to

[Gregs]

-Are your headers longtubes?
-Have you altered the location of the o2 sensors?
-I would recommend to clean the maf with maf cleaner (autoparts store)
-To find vacuum leaks before I have had the scan tool up reading ltft and had a buddy watch for them to go rich (negative) while i spray brake clean around.

yeah i looked at the log and man your afr is really unstable. like you said checking fuel pressure would be a good idea.

[Gregs]

some other recommendations, zero B3608 and B3612 and B3609 if you want

[Mikz86ta]

Edelbrocks are mid-lenght. The O2 is same spot on the y-pipe as stock. The stock y-pipe just went up higher.
MAF was cleaned 2 mos ago but I have cleaner and will do it again.
The carb cleaner usually makes the rpm change and I hear none. I can try the brake clean part as well.

Thx for checking my log. Yes afr sweeps around alot but I didnt know if it was normal.
Lemme see if I can upload a vid clip of myelectric fuel press gauge. It goes to 60 KeyOnEngOff and bleeds down a bit to approx 58. Once started, it drops to 50/51psi. I can rev and it jumps up to 60 then returns to about 48. Seen as low as 45 On the video if I can get it uploaded, you may or may nt have sound. But the Vacc.Boost gauge under the FP gauge will tell u when throttle is applied and, revs and holding throttle.

[Mikz86ta]

In my current adjustments, B3608 is zero already :)
B3612 I just did now.
B3609 was stock tuned to 0 I guess

[nevinsb]

Mike, have you tried disabling STFT/LTFT, and comparing AFR to your wideband? They should be pretty close if nothing is wrong with the tuning. You can also unplug the MAF if you are worried about "un-metered air."

If I remember correctly, the manual transmission had a different VE table than the automatic, but the spark table was the same. I can't confirm this because I don't have a tune for the manual transmission handy.

If you need a spare spider, I have a complete upper intake in my garage back in WI. Should be home in July if you need it. How quickly does the fuel pressure bleed off when you turn the ignition off?

I'm sure you found it, but you can compare the tune you took off your PCM to a stock tune using the compare feature.

[Gregs]

Edelbrocks are mid-lenght. The O2 is same spot on the y-pipe as stock. The stock y-pipe just went up higher.
MAF was cleaned 2 mos ago but I have cleaner and will do it again.
The carb cleaner usually makes the rpm change and I hear none. I can try the brake clean part as well.

Thx for checking my log. Yes afr sweeps around alot but I didnt know if it was normal.
Lemme see if I can upload a vid clip of myelectric fuel press gauge. It goes to 60 KeyOnEngOff and bleeds down a bit to approx 58. Once started, it drops to 50/51psi. I can rev and it jumps up to 60 then returns to about 48. Seen as low as 45 On the video if I can get it uploaded, you may or may nt have sound. But the Vacc.Boost gauge under the FP gauge will tell u when throttle is applied and, revs and holding throttle.


carb or brake clean, doesn't really matter much. I have worked on leaks that wouldn't change rpm when you find the spot but the ltft did change a lot when i sprayed it.

I agree with nevinsb, you should disable ltft and stft and force open loop and see what afrs are like

make sure you have good grounds too, i've had weird issues when grounds weren't good

[Mikz86ta]

Mike, have you tried disabling STFT/LTFT, and comparing AFR to your wideband? No sir I have not. How do I do that....do both at same time? Whats the focus on what I am comparing? Am I simply looking at my wideband reading and seeing if it stays steadier?
They should be pretty close if nothing is wrong with the tuning.

You can also unplug the MAF if you are worried about "un-metered air." I have not done that yet. I could try tht and see on a log if my trims change? Leave trims active during this test?

If I remember correctly, the manual transmission had a different VE table than the automatic, but the spark table was the same. I can't confirm this because I don't have a tune for the manual transmission handy. Unfortunately my tune file sems corrupted. lol . I posted it a few post back if u want to ck it out. I am going to change the questionable spark tables and test it.

If you need a spare spider, I have a complete upper intake in my garage back in WI. Should be home in July if you need it. How quickly does the fuel pressure bleed off when you turn the ignition off?Ill try to upload the vid today.
I have the Wynjammer to go on one day and also have the 36lb Poppet Injectors. But to install those I need to alter the injector settings. Which I dont know what they are. Id have to install the 2nd PCM and copy the file...or contact PCM4Less and ask them to send me the setting file.

I'm sure you found it, but you can compare the tune you took off your PCM to a stock tune using the compare feature.I didnt see the compare feature. But I usually open Tune Tool 2 times and load stock on one (or the downloaded tunes from tuner depot) and my current tune to compare

[Mikz86ta]

carb or brake clean, doesn't really matter much. I have worked on leaks that wouldn't change rpm when you find the spot but the ltft did change a lot when i sprayed it.

I agree with nevinsb, you should disable ltft and stft and force open loop and see what afrs are like

make sure you have good grounds too, i've had weird issues when grounds weren't good

Noted..thx

[slows10]

Your post number 88 confirms you need a fuel pump or regulator gauranteed. Most likely the pump.

[Mikz86ta]

Sweet! Im stoked about that :(

Im looking at doing the Racetronix pump W1 / FPA-007, the new 280 bulkhead plug RCS-028, the wire plug RCS0031 to go on the harness to adapt the new bulkhead plug and the tube FFT-360 to go inside. A few guys on S10Plabet done the Walbro, Walbro/Racetronix and Aeromotive pump swaps. The Walbro has issues sometimes during low fuel cornering/accel and the Racetronic pump for a few bux more fixes tht. The Aero Stealth is kinda too big for my needs.

[Mikz86ta]

FP Video. If direct dont work I posted the links:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/Vids/th_S10-FuelPressuretest.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/Vids/?action=view&current=S10-FuelPressuretest.mp4)

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/Vids/?action=view&current=S10-FuelPressuretest.mp4

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/Vids/?action=view&current=S10-FuelPressuretest.mp4

[slows10]

Hmmm hard to tell. I guess it depends on gauge accuracy. when mine is idling I am at 53-54 psi. you are 48 -50 psi which is low. When you hit the gas mine jumps to 58-60 psi so does yours. What is your fuel pressure at wot. It must be 58-60 psi or something is wrong. Try a quick wot run.

[slows10]

One of the problems with the S10 and the spider setup is we cant disconnect the vacuum source to he regulator.

[Mikz86ta]

Hmmm hard to tell. I guess it depends on gauge accuracy. when mine is idling I am at 53-54 psi. you are 48 -50 psi which is low. When you hit the gas mine jumps to 58-60 psi so does yours. What is your fuel pressure at wot. It must be 58-60 psi or something is wrong. Try a quick wot run.
Exactly why I am borrwing a mech direct testing type FPGauge...lol. I dont trust this accuracy. IIRC 60 at WOT same as when I am blipping the throttle hard.

[Mikz86ta]

One of the problems with the S10 and the spider setup is we cant disconnect the vacuum source to he regulator.

Nope. I have 2003 which has the later Mini Injector setup. I will be forced to go back to Poppets for now when I put the Jammer on as I have mentioned I have Al's 36lb poppets.
Yea no good way to test the FPR

[nevinsb]

Mike, you have AIM or steam or something I can IM you from?

To load an alternate file for comparison, you open a tuning file, then from the file menu, there is an option "load alternate calibration for comparison."

[Mikz86ta]

I have YahooIM and or u can always text me (or call). I am always contactable from S10Planet members as always. I thought I put my info on a thread there once. I have some members who txt me or IM me from time to time when they need me.
PM sent

[slows10]

Nope. I have 2003 which has the later Mini Injector setup. I will be forced to go back to Poppets for now when I put the Jammer on as I have mentioned I have Al's 36lb poppets.
Yea no good way to test the FPR Ya I realize that but the regulator is still under the intake.

[slows10]

Exactly why I am borrwing a mech direct testing type FPGauge...lol. I dont trust this accuracy. IIRC 60 at WOT same as when I am blipping the throttle hard.So according to your electronic gauge you are at 60psi all the way through a full throttle run?

[slows10]

Also the ve tables are the same between an auto and manual S10 4.3 tune

[Mikz86ta]

So according to your electronic gauge you are at 60psi all the way through a full throttle run?

Yea well today on way home I did a WOT from a cruise speed (lotsa traffic this afternoon) and it was 60 but seemed to bleed down to 58 B4 I let up on the throttle. Tomorrow I gotta run out on the highway to my frineds to get the FP Gauge, so Imma try and see from a stop with a good WOT blast

[Mikz86ta]

I will ck VE Tables for similarity.


At work today I loaded up the Spark in gear (B5932) and Spark in park/neutral (B5933) from the downloaded file to my tune. Remember mine was up and down whereas the dl stock tune I found was symetrical. Anyways, with throttle closed and coasting up to a redlight, it semed to have more stable manners than B4. I will know more tomorrow when I get out and drive it. Had some family business to attend tonight which kept me from trying it out

[Mikz86ta]

My electric gauge is pretty dead on. I tested with a test-type FP Gauge off the same srvc port tht the elect sender was on.
1 key cycle had 50psi but 2nd key cycle and thereafter was 59/60. Key On Engine Off. It will bled off about 1 PSI per minute if u let it sit. Key off.
Idle is a solid 50 PSI running at 750 RPM
When you blip the throttle it goes to 60 PSI instantly and maybe a tad more. When you release the throttle it goes under 50 until the RPMs drop back down and then it returns to 50.

Uploading a vid clip as I type and will post tht in a bit

[Mikz86ta]

Compared MAF and VE Tables to a stock 2003 auto tune from tuner deopt and also a second tune sent from another member which had a custom tune done. Same on all accounts. So my tables appear to be correct for stock.

[Mikz86ta]

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/Vids/?action=view&current=S10-FuelPressuretest2.mp4]http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/Vids/th_S10-FuelPressuretest2.jpg

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/Vids/?action=view&current=S10-FuelPressuretest2.mp4

[Mikz86ta]

I did 2 logs on my lunch break from work. I didnt see any KR when I had the MAF disconnected. Is tht normal?
I did one run with some basic PIDs and with MAF plugged up as normal, then halfway home I unplugged the MAF and continued and saved seperate log.
I know with MAF unplugged tht I experience some tip in burble. Basically delay on throttle response, feels a tad sluggish until RPMs get higher, etc. Makes sense?

[joecar]

I'm running behind/backwards... I'll be able to look at your files tonite/tomorrow if someone else hasn't already.

[Mikz86ta]

Thx Joe. Chack out some past postings also please and see if u can answer some other questions. I appreciate your help.
Im patient, just when I get something in my head I research and then ask if I dont see a clear answer. lol

My log tho I may have fked up and didnt get KR logged :( Have to redo it again tomorrow. IDK what I did wrong in PIDS

[joecar]

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/Mikz86TA/Truck/Vids/?action=view&current=S10-FuelPressuretest2.mp4
That looks ok...

With reference at BARO you get 58 psi;

then with hose on you idle at 50 psi... i.e. idle at 8 psi vacuum, this equates to approx 16 inHg vacuum, you can check this with a vacuum gauge;

then as you open the throttle wide, pressure jumps to 58 psi.

[joecar]

I did 2 logs on my lunch break from work. I didnt see any KR when I had the MAF disconnected. Is tht normal?
I did one run with some basic PIDs and with MAF plugged up as normal, then halfway home I unplugged the MAF and continued and saved seperate log.
I know with MAF unplugged tht I experience some tip in burble. Basically delay on throttle response, feels a tad sluggish until RPMs get higher, etc. Makes sense?

I didn't see KR in either log...

with MAF unplugged you get a MAF DTC which causes the PCM to do several things:
- failover to VE table,
- failover to LO spark table,
- a few other things.

So the running from the LO spark table might be why you're not seeing KR.

[Mikz86ta]

Hmm ok. But it was active in my logging PIDS right? Just wanted to be sre I am doing this right.


I found a custom mail order tune by a well known guy. The tune was done on a 2003 4.3L. I compared it to my stock tune in about every peramiter. I noticed a few differences in the DFCO and a couple other things. But not much different.
The spark table however (hi and lo oct.) was very similar in the pattern on the 3D graph. Had abt 2* more and was smoother on the high gm/cyl+low rpm area.

First thing tho I had swapped my distributor yesterday because of the notorious cap screw hole breakage. These have the all plastic dist base and where the cap screws down they are bad abt cracking. Mine was on the back and the cap may have been moving as bit. Got the aluminum replacement dist.
But I think I got it off by a tooth. Runs fine but has no power when u mash the gas,,,the headers seem very hot too indicating lean. I assume I am retarded on the timing and need to adv a tooth? Try tomorrow. Threw codes but didnt ck...no need since I know its nt right

[joecar]

In both logs in post #111 KR is zero everywhere and on the Data tab it shows the Max KR to have been zero.

[Mikz86ta]

Thats good news then. Funny I have not changed anything really since my last log tht had KR. I will do it again.


For now....my new distributor isnt going well. I am having issues with it running. Basically no power on throttlw. Been in and out 4 times with it. Tried to rotate a tooth but one way it wont even crank. The way which looks dead on TDC and the marks correct (dizzy has cast in marks) (balancer has 2 slots and align marks on timing cover) it starts and runs fine, but drive it and there is absolutely no power.
P0016 code IIRC comes up. Crank/Cam Sensor Correlation error code basically.
Gonna swap stock dizzy bk in. Maybe the new dizzy sensor is bad

[Gregs]

Thats good news then. Funny I have not changed anything really since my last log tht had KR. I will do it again.


For now....my new distributor isnt going well. I am having issues with it running. Basically no power on throttlw. Been in and out 4 times with it. Tried to rotate a tooth but one way it wont even crank. The way which looks dead on TDC and the marks correct (dizzy has cast in marks) (balancer has 2 slots and align marks on timing cover) it starts and runs fine, but drive it and there is absolutely no power.
P0016 code IIRC comes up. Crank/Cam Sensor Correlation error code basically.
Gonna swap stock dizzy bk in. Maybe the new dizzy sensor is bad

Should be a simple fix, just do a CASE relearn right?

[slows10]

Should be a simple fix, just do a CASE relearn right?

?? Huh?

[slows10]

Mike what does your cmp pid read at 1200 rpm with the new distibutor?

[Mikz86ta]

Maybe. I didnt think about that :( Thx for the reminder. Is there a certain procedure and cant I do it with EFILive?

[Mikz86ta]

CASE relearn is like crank position sensor relearn.

Whats CMP? Have to ck tomorrow anyways, trucks at shop and Im home now. Thx for the input and help

[slows10]

A case relearn has nothing to do with anyhing but misfire data for the ecm. It does not effect the way the engine runs.

[slows10]

You cant just stab in a vortec distributor at tdc #1cyl and think it is going to be fine.There is a bit of procedure involved since you cant rotate the distributor like you could in earlier small blocks.

[Mikz86ta]

So whats the procedure?

[Mikz86ta]

Ok so found this :
http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/distributor.html
In part 2, is what they are telling me to do what I need to do. Is tht what u were referring to?
Is GM.CMPRET the PID I need to be viewing while doing this?
How sensative is this sensor up there. I mean they are talking about rotating the dizzy. But the dizzy base only goes in one way, the clamp is attached to the dizzy base with flat sides so that it can only be installed one direction. And the clockwise/counterclockwise rotation is NIL. Maybe a smidge. Is it tht sensative that it makes a huge difference?
Realistically it runs fine but seems lean but it has simply no power on throttle driving. Like I doubt it will climb RPMs at all.

So if this is true and the procedure, ANY time the stock dizzy has the bolt loosened (even by itself and no swap is done) then it will throw it out of whack?

[slows10]

It does not hurt to check the cmp. You said you installed a new distributor and after starting it does not run the same. Verify you are not a tooth off first. Yes the vortec v6 does have the hold down that prevents turning the base while installed in the engine, while the v8 vortec allows full adjustment. It is strange why GM did this. But ther is still some play in there. Parts wear out etc. I assume you dont have the dtc P1345? Like I said it does not hurt to check. But if it ran with less power after a distributor swap, then it is either not installed correctly(a tooth off) or the quality of the distributor itself is not ver good.

[Mikz86ta]

Gonna stab the dizzy in there. Then ck SES codes. Then try this CMPRET PID on the scan tool and see where its at. From there I will try to adjust. I see no play in the base really. The hold down is a bit loose to the base but not much in play as far as the bolt hole.

[Mikz86ta]

No code thrown last time I cranked it but P0016. Just checked last 2 SES logs.
Bad module?

[Mikz86ta]

Mike what does your cmp pid read at 1200 rpm with the new distibutor?

Would you beleive -168.00 at 1000/1080ish RPM?
Spark Adv shows -2.0 at that RPM.

Install is dead on. TDC #1, Balance 2 tabs aligned, Pointer to the corresponding 6 in the dizzy.
Try the old dizzy I guess and see :(

[Mikz86ta]

Log file tht I did showing RPM, the PID for the cam sensor and the spark advance. U see even at idle usually there is some sp adv, but there really isnt any and it goes a few degees ret. The cam sensor is very off as u can see. WTH? lol
Im at an end to my expertise here :(
I put the old dist cam sensor into the new dist and did a second try and log. But same result as above log identical.

Gonna put old dizzy/old sensor back in. Crazy tho cause the rotor and gear seem to line up so the physical new dizzy is like the old one

[slows10]

To do the cmp test you have to hold the rpm at 1200-1250. I saw on your log you just let it idle than hit the throttle real quick. So it didnt work right. Hold it roughly 1200 or so rpm for a good 10 seconds to get a good read. Anything less than 1200 rpm, the test wont work right.

[Mikz86ta]

Ok will do. But shouldnt idle RPM be more than 2* retarded anyways?

Drop in new dizzy.....is there any procedure I need to do? CASE, etc?
I have 0 play to rotate the dizzy (old or new) on the 4.3L to 'set' the CMP centerpoint. Bolt loose and trying to rotate it gives me NIL result.
I hear tht the L31 rotate instructions as described in the link I provided is not valid on 4.3 since the 5.7 has some adjustability built in to the base. Correct info?

[Mikz86ta]

New short log. Got it running again. Reinstalled the stock dizzy 3xs.
1st time as described in manual I lined up the gear dimple with shaft housing mark and dropped in. The rotor tip faced about straight to the '6' mark inside the top of the base. Would not run.
2nd time I rotated the gear/rotor one tooth (counterclockwise) and dropped in. Not run and had some violent pops.
3rd time I rotated the gear/rotor one tooth (clockwise) past the 6 mark or 2 teeth (clockwise) from the 2nd time post position. the rotor tip is closer to the 6 terminal if looking at the cap from top. Runs but my log attached shows the CMPRET still high but yet not as high as it was before. My timing isnt retarded (-2 / 0 degrees) at idle any more for sure. I rev and get some advance for sure. Do I attempt one more tooth?

Seriously is there some CASE relearn Im suposed to do or can do or any type of 'setting' to correlate the sensors?

[slows10]

LOL I know this stuff can make you crazy, it did for me. I am reading your last post at 10:45 pm est. Tired. I will reread your info in the am. By the way there used to be a ton of the vortec guys around here, some real good guys.Hopefully they will see your thread soon. esp with the cmp issue. edit just watched your log and it seems you are not in spec.

[Mikz86ta]

Get some rest man, Im still up beating my head over this crap and I am sooo tired too.

[Mikz86ta]

This morning I changed nothing. I started it up and it sounded fine to me but wanted to drive it since I could not last night B4 I closed the shop and had to go.
As per my last log I was at 0* idle advance and -19* on the cmpret pid.
Looking back at past logs I did B4 thins delima I never recorded the cmpret pid but my idle spark adv was always in the 19/20*range. So tht made me think I am still one tooth off. Being the 360 degree divided by 13 teeth on the dizzy drive gear equals 27.68
So if I rotate another tooth, I am ard 27* more and my pointer is near the #6 terminal. Thats 7-8* higher than normal and a hellova close for comfort to the #6 terminal. But then hey, maybe the PCM corrects it. Thats one thing IDK.
Now today I crank it and runs fine as did last night. Drive it and I have power again...yay.
Did a log and CMPRET still shows a -19 at idle and prettymuch all RPMs for tht matter
Yet, my idle spark Adv is now to a normal 19-20* and goes up as high as 44* around 2k RPM when sitting and revving. Well thats great, but WTH?

My last afformentioned logfile is attached. Thx for bearing with me, giving me ideas and helping me in general

[Mikz86ta]

Installed the new dizzy same as the old one (one tooth clockwise) and runs the same as with the old one in same position. Didnt work at all straigt in as instructed by ever manual I seen. Sux
Log posted again. Timing shows only 10-ish at idle instead of 20ish like normal. But I found the reason. I forgot to plug my boost gauge vacc tube back on and thus had a small vaccum leak. After I stopped logging I found it, plugged in and the base adv at idle went right back to 20-ish.

[Mikz86ta]

Well for a week it has run great.
Yesterday driving I had some problem I cant figure out tht was random. And today it was fine all day until this afternoon. It realy acted up. Let it sit, then it was fine :(
The prob I noticed driving was at around 2K RPM, in 3rd and 4th gear, cruising in town at 40MPH area and very light throttle input to remain speed. The truck had a clunky feeling you could feel and hear, felt like momentun stopped for a split second a couple times in a row. I let off gas and then it stopped. This was really quick so I had no time to see gauges other than looked as if the RPMs didnt drop or move.
Almost as if you smashed the clutch abruptly and popped it back in/out. There was a clutch clunk sound and the momentum drop. Weird eh?
Happened randomly 4 times in past two days.

Ok so today when I was leaving my work/shop, It did it while I was coasting in 1st thru the lot. Felt like it lost power abruptly. Then as I am on the side road approaching a stops sign, coasting in 2nd, it did it violently again and this sime started to stall out. It was really like the gauges shut off also and ign turned back on. The needles reset, the idiot lights all lit including Ck Gauges and Low Fuel (tank is 3/4 full). I just filled up a few days back (Mon)

My FP Sender has been acting odd also but I tht it was bad wire terminal or sender going bad. Fixed the wires today just as a precaution and made sure they were tight. Seemed fine as they was but I rewired it anyways to inside the trk. Had no time to do anything else. Thk bad sender.
But now I think maybe the 2 are related and a ground issue?

Ck the firewall Gnd Strap and Battery wires in the AM. But anyone see any other issue I may want to investigate?