lost on getting more power. 2000 camaro

[rpmspeed]

I'm trying to get some more power out of this 2000 camaro and been trying for hours but just seem confused or lost on the numbers.

Power 344whp, 335tq. dynojet that seems to read lower than every other dynojet i've been on.

Specs on car. 2000 camaro. automatic
tsp 224r cam. 224/224, .581/.581, 114 lsa, 110 icl.
springs.
tr6 plugs
1 7/8 long tube headers.
tsp 3in ypipe
k&n intake.
20in wheels
3.73 gear
2400 to 2600 stall

Here is latest tune i've flashed and a log

13175
13176

[macca33]

You may need to select a few more PIDs to give people an overall idea of what is going on.

You're losing a little bit of manifold pressure, so there is a slight intake restriction somewhere.

Also, your VE table defaults to common values - respectively for MAP columns - once you get to 5200rpm. You do not seem to be logging the AFR, so how do you know it isn't too rich / lean? Granted, no KR exists up top, but you may be out with the fuelling???

Lastly, 344rwhp equates to around 256rwkW in our language over here, which is a fairly stout result for the mods / camshaft you're running. There may not be a whole lot left in it.

cheers

[rpmspeed]

thanks for the response. and the afrs are logged under wo2afr1 in the log. around 12.7-12.8 afrs.

[BLK02WS6]

Did you try a little less timing? Fuel looks pretty good as long as it is accurate - is that in the tailpipe? or up in the header?

These engines don't like flat timing and fuel either - try the attached and see if you get any better results... if you are still at it...

I would expect a little more out of that setup, but it really depends on the dyno... you may need to look for a mechanical issue because nothing in your log shows anything that is going to pick up very large amounts... hope that helps...

[rpmspeed]

im actually sitting in the car right now going at it some more. customer wants it back tomorrow. and the wideband is in the header.

[BLK02WS6]

Let me know how it does... I would expect that setup to be about 370 to 375, so it is down 25 to 30... what muffler is in the catback?

[rpmspeed]

looks to be magnaflow. he has a cut out. but not using it. I just ran that tune and got a lot of knock throughout the run for some reason. Here is a log

13181

[rpmspeed]

are dyno does seem to run low we get numerous people that just wants to do pulls and get like 40whp less than other dyno's they've been on. also this car is auotomatic with 20's for the wheels. I know it won't be a huge huge decrease but from my experience 20's will kill a little power shown on the dyno.

[BLK02WS6]

I would open the cutout and see if it makes a difference - if it is a flowmaster, I have seen those cause a 25rwhp loss numerous times... magnaflow is much better though...

I take it you are tuning by the PE, not the VE and MAF tables? Here is one with a bit more fuel coming into it... I actually dropped timing from what you had.

[BLK02WS6]

Well, if you run that much lower than other dyno's, there is your difference! Been through that before - had a Mustang dyno that ran lower than most other dyno's around - I would just tell people it is a tool to tune on and what matters is the before and after numbers on my dyno, not comparing to others.... then take it to the track for the numbers that really count. But I know that is not what they want to hear sometimes...

[rpmspeed]

I increased the maf for the intake with a little more airflow coming into the maf than stock. I use PE for airfuels. I will do the autove for cams and what not for the drivibility but not wot

[macca33]

thanks for the response. and the afrs are logged under wo2afr1 in the log. around 12.7-12.8 afrs.


Sorry mate - forgot that other logs won't directly assimilate with the way I've got my V7.5 dashboard set up - I use calculated PIDS, so don't get the WB AFR data stream showing up on my dash.

I also noted the timing you were running, but didn't comment because it seems you blokes over there run more timing than us up the top end of your tunes, in general.

cheers

[joecar]

I don't think you will make more power for 2 reasons:
- injector DC is running out,
- MAP is dropping as rpm climbs up;

also, MAF is seeing some bad flow, the PCM may smooth/filter this if it's not too pronounced (supported by BEN looking good)... it is making CALC.CYLAIR suffer, IDK what the PCM is doing with it internally, log GM.CYLAIR_DMA to see (but do not exceed 24 pid channel count)(you could drop ECT and add CYLAIR_DMA).

There are several options:
- make it a little richer near peak torque (the NBO2 seems to indicate you could/should go richer), and a little leaner at peak power;
- reduce timing advance around peak torque a little (but it's ok near peak power);

interesting log file :)

[joecar]

BTW (not related): these are out of range:

Out of Range calibration summary: 07:38:19 pm, Friday May 18, 2012

Transmission Calibration.Trans Pressures
{D0701} Base Pressure 1->2 Shift, contained one or more out of range values when loaded.
{D0702} Base Pressure 2->3 Shift, contained one or more out of range values when loaded.
{D0703} Base Pressure 3->4 Shift, contained one or more out of range values when loaded.

[BLK02WS6]

I think the reason the MAP is dropping is the K&N intake - if it is the one that replaces the stock airbox, I've seen those choke up an F-Body several times... recommend going back to a stock air box with a panel filter - add one of the cold air scoops for the best results (Fast toys or whoever makes one these days)...

Mostly, I think it is the low reading dyno...

[joecar]

What ET/TS does it trap...?

[maudyZ28]

i'll have a quick look over the log tonight but wanted to chime in on the timing. Mine running 12.6 AFR and at 28* from about 5000 rpm upwards, and the car seems really happy. If feels flat otherwise. For comparison i've got a 99 with 228R cam and 253 heads (stock) and ran a best of 12.3 @ 113 mph. This was with street tires and a 0-60ft of 2.03 sec.

[joecar]

Hi Maudy, what timing do you run from 3600-4800 rpm...?

[maudyZ28]

Hi Maudy, what timing do you run from 3600-4800 rpm...?



i'm actually being very cheeky and running the stock 99 timing as is it very agressive. Although I have stock 253 ls2 heads which bump compression a little when I pulled 2-3 deg out everywhere the car seemed to be flat. So slowly bumping it up a degree at a time I got back to stock timing and have left it there.

from memory I believe at peak torque (the rpms you state above) the timing is down to about 21-22* at maximum, but I run a constant fueling of 12.6 after 3000 rpm :D

[joecar]

Ok, that's the key: to remove some timing and see if the engine likes it better or not.

Thanks Maudy.

[maudyZ28]

it 'should' be relatively easy on the dyno. What you have to watch out for is the fact fueling and timing go hand in hand, so actually changing the timing will inadvertantly throw your AFR off. I've not tested this to the extremes but know I've has to do a new VE tune after the timing swap. The changes were minimal but I believe due to timing, if timing is optimum the fuel burns faster/better and hence the AFR may change and be too lean for the timing as the engine is using the fuel given, or so I believe. If anyone know or has tested this then correct me if i'm wrong :D

[BLK02WS6]

That is generally the case - adding timing will require fuel added to bring AFR into line with where it was... if you are doing small steps in timing (which you should), it usually isn't much...

[joecar]

So I take it the timing change is changing the physical VE...?


( i.e. if you're going to run with the changed timing, go and retune the VE table )

[maudyZ28]

So I take it the timing change is changing the physical VE...?


( i.e. if you're going to run with the changed timing, go and retune the VE table )

Yes this is the case but as BLK02WS6 said it may only be minimal for small steps. I'd love to have a dyno to myself for a week to test all this out :D

[BLK02WS6]

Yes this is the case but as BLK02WS6 said it may only be minimal for small steps. I'd love to have a dyno to myself for a week to test all this out :D


I miss having a dyno - back some years ago, I worked nights tuning for a shop and had 24/7 access to a Mustang dyno... the place wasn't run well, and when the economy turned, they closed up shop...

I spent hours upon hours on the dyno finding out what these engines want - every one of them is a little different, but there are certain trends that hold true for most combinations of a given design (i.e. LS, cathedral heads, etc)...

[maudyZ28]

I miss having a dyno - back some years ago, I worked nights tuning for a shop and had 24/7 access to a Mustang dyno... the place wasn't run well, and when the economy turned, they closed up shop...

I spent hours upon hours on the dyno finding out what these engines want - every one of them is a little different, but there are certain trends that hold true for most combinations of a given design (i.e. LS, cathedral heads, etc)...

sounds amazing to me. :D