Oil life

[RVDAN]

I have a 2007.5 GMC 3500 CC LMM
Every since I installed EFI (3/21/12) the oil life is dropping very quick, like 1% for every 10-12 miles.
I had the Quadzilla economy nodpf tune for 3 1/2 years the oil life was normal about 1% for every 90 miles.
I really don't go by the oil life % but it does bug the heck out of me to see this happening, something is not right.
I have put the Quad back in and the oil life is back to normal.
I would like to continue using EFI tuning, but I also would like things to be back to normal.
Any ideas from any one ?
I did e-mail EFI on this, but no reply

[AFTERMATH DIESEL]

check b1406

[AFTERMATH DIESEL]

do you have your own V2 or how did you recieve your tuning?

[RVDAN]

Duramaxtuner, Jack of Spades

[JoshH]

You need to call Duramaxtuner then because there is nothing you, me, or anyone else can do to fix it.

[RVDAN]

You need to call Duramaxtuner then because there is nothing you, me, or anyone else can do to fix it.

I have contacted them and have been hoping for something better than to just ignor it, they have known about this for over 2 months with me, even longer with others and still with no fix known.
EFI is aware of this issue with some vehicles, are they really working on a fix or just ignoring this issue.
Is this issue with the tuners tunes or actually these few vehicles that have a this problem???
This is why I posted on this forum with no return messages from EFI on if they are planning on a fix, or am I just being blown off.
I spent good money for something that is supposely the greatest and not completely working correctly to my satisfaction and being ignored on my question.
I don't have this problem with my Quadzilla and expected the EFI to be great in all aspects and its not.

[vortecfcar]

Dan,

I know we've been in contact regarding this issue. I don't have any updates and Ross doesn't have any fix that I know of. I don't know why you're seeing oil life drop quickly. I have your oil change distance set to 10K miles in the tune in table B1406. I've seen this on a few trucks, but haven't pin pointed it's source. Obviously it's in the tune somewhere. If there's something the folks at EFIlive would like me to try to do to fix it I'm happy to comply or send them your files for adjustment.

I think its noteworthy to those reading that you mentioned in your correspondence to me that your oil tests have indicated nothing unusual.

Nick

[RVDAN]

Dan,

I know we've been in contact regarding this issue. I don't have any updates and Ross doesn't have any fix that I know of. I don't know why you're seeing oil life drop quickly. I have your oil change distance set to 10K miles in the tune in table B1406. I've seen this on a few trucks, but haven't pin pointed it's source. Obviously it's in the tune somewhere. If there's something the folks at EFIlive would like me to try to do to fix it I'm happy to comply or send them your files for adjustment.

I think its noteworthy to those reading that you mentioned in your correspondence to me that your oil tests have indicated nothing unusual.

Nick
Yes the oil analysis is normal, but the whole thing justs bugs the heck out of me enough that I'm checking it constantly so to solve this I just put my Quad back in yesterday.
I know not many have this problem and I would prefer it to be the sameway with me, it's just something in the back of my mind that does not seem right and I can not just ignor it.
All I was hoping for was EFI to communicate with me because I know your at a stand still until you hear something from them.
I got the vibe (not from you) when I asked this question no one really wanted to talk about it so I tried with EFI.com with no luck so then I tried this forum, hoping for something other than to just ignor it.
I would not be as upset if someone from EFI would have at least acknowledge my question and contacted me.

[joecar]

Oil Life is calculated by the ECM...

EFILive is just an edit/flash tool so it cannot effect Oil Life...

I am not familiar with your tune file, but if it contained oil life parameters/tables and someone tampered with these then Oil Life would be effected (but can you see that this would be the tune file and not the edit/flash tool...?)

Or maybe the ECM is detecting conditions that cause the Oil Life calculation to be accelerated (lots of WOT pulls followed by lots of idling).

(BTW: EFILive isn't "installed" on your ECM)


I pm'd Tech Support in case they want to clarify or add to the above.

[RVDAN]

Oil Life is calculated by the ECM...

EFILive is just an edit/flash tool so it cannot effect Oil Life...

I am not familiar with your tune file, but if it contained oil life parameters/tables and someone tampered with these then Oil Life would be effected (but can you see that this would be the tune file and not the edit/flash tool...?)

Or maybe the ECM is detecting conditions that cause the Oil Life calculation to be accelerated (lots of WOT pulls followed by lots of idling).

(BTW: EFILive isn't "installed" on your ECM)


I pm'd Tech Support in case they want to clarify or add to the above.
Thank you for the info,
No WOT long pulls or long idling
I did not want to mention anything or anybody other than what issue that i have and is bothering me.
I just would like to have this resolved and work correctly.
I've never just ignored something that I don't think is right the past 60yrs and I'm not going to start now.
Again thank you for the info.

[GMPX]

Sorry guys I don't know. Certainly if this was an LB7 then we'd say the ECM has had a malfunction because oil life monitoring issues are a problem for that ECM, but on an LMM I don't know.

[RVDAN]

Joecar,
After reading your reply several times including oil life @ 10,000 miles in the tune could that be the cause?
Like I think you said oil life should have nothing to do with the tune, I agree.

[GMPX]

The only thing that I can think of with the tune is that it thinks 'something' is going to degrade the oil life considerably, but, I'm sure Duramaxtuner will say that there was nothing out of the ordinary with this LMM compared to the 100's of LMM's he tuned in the past, so again, not sure what to make of it.

[RVDAN]

I know it's not like this happens a lot and only to a few but it is disappointing having it happen.
It makes me wonder if there is a actual problem somewhere that might show up later on, because I don't have this issue with my Quadzilla.
I put my Quad back in last month for 2 weeks and it was back to normal, then I put my EFI back in and its back to the oil life dropping fast.
I do appreciate the replies,
I did e-mail one person 3 wks ago asking if any new info or a fix was available but never got a reply.
I know if I did not speak up and ask others I would never find out anything.

[THEFERMANATOR]

This may be a stupid question, but does the AUTOCAL full flash the ECM when it is installed? He states he has a QUAD on it now, so maybe the spade is doing a cal flash and there is something lingering in the ECM from the QUAD that is causing it. I know the BOSCH ECM is pretty QUIRKY to say the least from my experience, so maybe it is an issue with his QUAD not going back to a true stock tune. Then when the modded tune is put in there is a QUAD file still in there messing up the oil life calculations.

[RVDAN]

I know of at least 3 people now that this happens to, but this is the first tuner they have had, all have the LMM and all have had only EFI.

[RVDAN]

This may be a stupid question, but does the AUTOCAL full flash the ECM when it is installed? He states he has a QUAD on it now, so maybe the spade is doing a cal flash and there is something lingering in the ECM from the QUAD that is causing it. I know the BOSCH ECM is pretty QUIRKY to say the least from my experience, so maybe it is an issue with his QUAD not going back to a true stock tune. Then when the modded tune is put in there is a QUAD file still in there messing up the oil life calculations.

You mentioned something interesting so I called Quad they do NOT make any changes to the oil life, they only stick to the actual tuning.
So could the changes EFI do with the oil life be the cause of this happening, I think it would be something to at least look into.
I know it only happens to a few but in my opinion it would be worth the effort to check this out.

[THEFERMANATOR]

You mentioned something interesting so I called Quad they do NOT make any changes to the oil life, they only stick to the actual tuning.
So could the changes EFI do with the oil life be the cause of this happening, I think it would be something to at least look into.
I know it only happens to a few but in my opinion it would be worth the effort to check this out.

Just because they say they don't make changes to it, doesn't mean it doesn't inadvertantly happen. The BOSCH ECM is fairly quirky it seems, ESPESCIALLY once it has been tuned by a boxed tuner. Just throwing out an idea that may lead to some more revelations into this.

[GMPX]

I called Quad they do NOT make any changes to the oil life, they only stick to the actual tuning.
I think the thing to understand here is you can't really change the oil life monitor directly through tuning. It's a system GM developed where it monitors engine operating conditions to determine how fast the oil is going to deteriorate. I don't know the absolute specifics on what it monitors but lets assume if the engine is run for long idle periods in 110 degree temps, then does some high load (towing) it would probably determine the oil life is going to be shorter than if you had been cruising on the highway in 70 degree weather at 60 MPH with minimal load.

I think as a process of elimination I would put your stock tune back in the ECM (with the DPF stuff sorted out or you'll be in limp mode), just to see if the problem still happens. If it doesn't then Nick can maybe start a process of elimination as to what modified table might be causing the problem. It might also be an issue with the ECM thinking the DPF is blocked causing high soot levels.

[RVDAN]

I have already tried what you suggested it works like its suppose to, I have not towed since Nov 2011 the same daily driving habits no long idling maybe 2-3 min in the winter since I bought this truck 5 yrs ago.
I bought my first ever EFI in March 2012, I took out my Quad out and installed my new EFI.

I do want to thank all of you with all of your input and suggestions
Until I posted on this forum I was getting no where.

[RVDAN]

Problem solved oil life back to normal.
Hint, it had nothing to do with my Quadzilla, answer is in reply #12.
Thanks again for your replies.

[Black6spdZ]

Joecar,
After reading your reply several times including oil life @ 10,000 miles in the tune could that be the cause?
Like I think you said oil life should have nothing to do with the tune, I agree.

So 10,000 miles seems like an OK value.. how did this cause the problem?

[RVDAN]

By duplicating it in the tune, taking out the B1406 table in the tune problem solved.
Letting the factory setting do its job.
This does not happen to all vehicles just a few.

[joecar]

I don't have a diesel tune to look at... what is the name/description of table B1406...?

[joecar]

Ok, I pulled down a 2008 LMM tune from www.tunefiledepot.com (http://www.tunefiledepot.com) and gazed thru it...


{B1406} Change Oil Warning Distance

"Maximum distance before the oil change message will come on regardless of oil life remaining percent."


Can someone explain to me how the problem was fixed, and why it was occurring in the first place...?

:)

[RVDAN]

From what I found out on some vehicles that had this problem like mine duplicating this in the tune is what causes the problem confusing the oil life system.
By eliminating the B1406 in the tune and just letting the factory settings do its job the problem was solved, why ? who knows but it worked on mine and others when this was eliminated in the tune.
No other brand programmers includes this in their tuning and they don't have this problem.
Pretty simple fix but EFI support does not buy this from someone that is not EFI tuner, I tried for about one week emailing back and forth and got no where.
So now I'm giving up trying to help and moving on, basically being told I don't know what I'm talking about.
At least my trucks oil life is working like its suppose to again dropping about 1 % for every 90-100 miles instead of 1% for every 10 miles.

[cindy@efilive]

Dan,

What I said to you was you had tunes from 2 tuners. One fixed your oil life issue, one didn't. It was clear that your 2 tuners used different tuning strategies given they used the same software with different results. You proved that the software worked as designed (ie Oil life was correct) with one tuner, so there is nothing to change in the software.

EFILive cannot be held responsible for the different tuning strategies of different tuners. You have the results of your investigations, you should go back to your tuner and ask them to implement your findings if that's the result you want.

Cheers
Cindy

[RVDAN]

Your still not getting it, one includes the B1406 table in the tunes others don't.
Ross clearly stated he did not know what causes this and my former tuner was not going to try anything unless EFI wanted to look over my tune and make suggestions
Which you did not.
So I had to find another EFI tuner that would take care of my concerns which cost me another $500, any wonder why I'm upset.
But hey no problem, at least I won't have to hear we don't know what causes this problem is anymore.

[GMPX]

Dan, there seems to be a miscommunication here.
Look at it from EFILive support perspective, every EFILive user/tuner out there has the same tables and parameters (including B1406). The way I understand it, both tuners you've used are using EFILive (is that correct?), with tuner 'x' you have the problem, with tuner 'y' you don't. Why is that something we need to look in to when both have the exact same tuning tools to work with? It's like saying tuner 'x' makes the truck smoke, tuner 'y' doesn't, therefore EFILive should fix the smoke problem. Or is this not the situation?

[RVDAN]

Because the tuner tells people they don't know what causes this it must be in the tune.
I just got another PM today from another member with the same issue and being told just to ignore it.
People that I refered to the tuner are a little upset.
All I had asked was to try what I have been suggesting and was denied this request.
I really don't think I was asking to much, since I did buy the product that has a problem that a few don't know what to do to correct it.
But thanks for your question I am moving on now.

[GMPX]

You might be ready to move on, but I still want to know why this is the fault of EFILive as a product as you seem to be insinuating? Do you understand that your claim reads that it's the fault of EFILive and EFILive support because tuners are using different methods to tune trucks and we couldn't somehow fix that? Can you clarify, the tune that is now in your truck (created by a different user/tuner) with no oil life issues was created with EFILive? The exact same product that you are saying caused your oil life problem.

[RVDAN]

Ok here goes final chapter,
About 2 months ago I got a reply from my tuner with a message from Ross included.
He stated he still can not figure out what is causing this to happen, if he ever does they will correct it.
So I figured out why and tried to pass it on to EFI support with the suggestion then was told they can not do anything because everyone has their own way.
I thought they would be interested in solving this issue from the message that was forwarded to me from EFI 2months ago, but apparently they are not.
And again its not the EFI product in general its in the tuning.
I hope this make some since as to why I'm a little frustrated with support and the tuner, when they still are saying they don't know what causes this.
Wouldn't you be to.
This was before I jumped ship.

[GMPX]

I understand Dan you feel you hit a brick wall, but just so everyone reading along can make sense of this can you please answer these two questions.

1 - Was the tune that was causing the oil life issues was created by a tuner using EFILive?
2 - Was the tune that FIXED the oil life issues created by a different tuner, but still using EFILive?

[THEFERMANATOR]

What I think happened here is he got a different OS from the 2nd tuner. There are 2 different OS's for most LMM's, the 7083 and the 8594. The 8594 HAS the B1406 table whereas the 7083 does NOT have this table. Also the 8594 OS has alot of wierd quirks in it that MANY have experienced, and is why many go back to the early 7083 OS to get a more consistent tune. If I understand his posts correctly, he is saying the 2nd tune that fixed the issue does not have the B1406 in it which would meen it is a 7083 OS as it is the only one I am aware of that does not have it.

[RVDAN]

I understand Dan you feel you hit a brick wall, but just so everyone reading along can make sense of this can you please answer these two questions.

1 - Was the tune that was causing the oil life issues was created by a tuner using EFILive? YES
2 - Was the tune that FIXED the oil life issues created by a different tuner, but still using EFILive? YES

Where I am now having a problem with EFILive support is the first tuner had asked Ross @ EFI for assistance to help solve this problem.
Ross has been working on it but has not figure out what causes this yet, when he figures out the problem he would let the tuner know.
I did include this message from Ross to my tuner in one of my correspondences with support last week.
Apparently this breaks protocal from someone else @ EFILive support.
I guess they should inform Ross he should not be advising the tuners on any programming issues.

All I was trying to do was to let EFI support know there is a fix and maybe contact Ross so the tuner would be able to solve the problem, but I could not get past 1st base.

What am I suppose to tell others wanting to know if I have the same issue and if I ever got it fixed ? I did refer a lot of people to this tuner.
Yes, but I had to go to another EFI tuner to solve this issue. I don't want to do that.
A customer should not have to go thru this much BS from support to help to get something corrected, so other customers don't have to be disappointed like I was.
I was just trying to help other EFI customers that is having this issue, but I hit a block wall trying to do something to help.
I hope this answers your questions.

[RVDAN]

What I think happened here is he got a different OS from the 2nd tuner. There are 2 different OS's for most LMM's, the 7083 and the 8594. The 8594 HAS the B1406 table whereas the 7083 does NOT have this table. Also the 8594 OS has alot of wierd quirks in it that MANY have experienced, and is why many go back to the early 7083 OS to get a more consistent tune. If I understand his posts correctly, he is saying the 2nd tune that fixed the issue does not have the B1406 in it which would meen it is a 7083 OS as it is the only one I am aware of that does not have it.

I don't know anything about the OS numbers but it appears what your saying is correct the one without the B1406 in the tune.
This is what I requested but only the 2nd tuner would do it. This was a simple fix for me from #2.
Now its just getting someone to get this info to someone higher up, way above support.
God, I can't beleive a person has to go to this extreem to try to get something corrected for others.
Thanks for the info.

[JoshH]

I still don't see how this is EFILive's fault. It sounds 100% like a problem with tuner #1 to me. What is EFILive supposed to do, tell a tuner how to tune?

[joecar]

Ok, what I'm reading is that the ECM got flashed with with a different OS (done by tuner person #1) and this caused the Oil Life to malfunction...

[RVDAN]

I still don't see how this is EFILive's fault. It sounds 100% like a problem with tuner #1 to me. What is EFILive supposed to do, tell a tuner how to tune?
Its not EFILive's fault but the tuner did ask Ross for advice as to what might be the problem.
Stupid me thought EFI would like to know to help the tuner solve the issue since he did ask for advice, but I guess not.

Which is fine, I really don't care anymore.
So now please close this thread at my request.

[RVDAN]

Ok, what I'm reading is that the ECM got flashed with with a different OS (done by tuner person #1) and this caused the Oil Life to malfunction...
Yes, and your the person that opened my eye's to what could be causing this.
I do thank you,

[cindy@efilive]

Dan,

Ross has responded to you in this thread a number of time. Ross is GMPX.
You already know that I am EFI Support on other forums and you have been PM'ing me.

Given you specifically asked me not to forward your PM's to your tuner, I respected your request and didn't, but you've now disclosed pretty much everything publicly. For closure on this issue, I will forward this thread to your original tuner so that he is aware that you did find a solution.

Cheers
Cindy

[GMPX]

Its not EFILive's fault but the tuner did ask Ross for advice as to what might be the problem.
And I am sure if I go back over the correspondence with them I probably said exactly what I've posted about it in this thread. The thing is, the tuner in question is someone that has been using EFILive on Duramax's since it first came out, to that I say, who am I to question how they tune, I guarantee you they know a lot more than me on tuning them.


I still don't see how this is EFILive's fault. It sounds 100% like a problem with tuner #1 to me. What is EFILive supposed to do, tell a tuner how to tune?
Apparently yes, just as much as Bill Gates is supposed to tell you how to write a letter in Word.

[StinkyDog]

I had the same problem for awhile. Somehow the oil life calculation got messed up on one of my tunes. I simply returned the oil life to the stock setting and all is well now. I will look up the parameter and post later.

[StinkyDog]

You need to change B1406 to 16000. That is the stock setting. You will find it under "systems, "warnings", "parameters"

[IdahoRob]

I'm tuner number 2. I did my normal tuning to this customers truck that I do to them all and his problem went away from the start of using ATP autocal. Not a different OS. EFI software was not a problem, the tuning adjustments that were made was.

[GMPX]

Thanks for the clarification Rob.
Before this turns sour and becomes a tuner vs tuner debate, all I wanted to point out to those reading along was that the RVDAN was trying to suggest that this was an EFILive issue and EFILive support should have fixed it for him. The point has been made clear that both tuners used EFILive to build their tunes, one tune affects the oil life, the other doesn't, end of story as far as EFILive support goes.
I'll close the thread now so it doesn't turn bad as we don't want tuner wars on this forum, if anyone wants to take it further PM those involved (not me BTW!)