Advice for firest time procharger tuner

[andysc3]

Hello. Im about to install a procharger D1-SC on my truck with mods in sig. I have some Fast 65# injectors going in. Will run a COS3. Any tips/advice would be helpful

[joecar]

Get as much data for the injectors converted into the injector tables as you can.

Make sure the IFR matches the FPR's reference (flat) or no-reference (sloped).

The 105kPa column of the Boost VE table should be identical to the 105kPa column of the Main VE table.

Set the PE table suitably rich and make sure it triggers easily.

Use a serial wideband and use "GM.EQIVRATIO*EXT.WO2LAM1" as the BEN correction.

Make sure the tunetool fueling units are not set to Lambda, use EQR instead.

Make sure units in scantool match units of tunetool table axes.

[joecar]

There's a problem with V7 flashing LS1 PCM's at the moment (build 210), so use V8 (build 201) or V2 BBF (firmware 2.7.34) to do flashing.

( also, whenever you update V8 and V2 firmware, be sure to do Program All on the BBx config (from the V8 S&T software) )

[andysc3]

Im still using the V1 7.5. Would it still be the same.

[andysc3]

I got the tuning data form the guy I bought the injectors from. He was using HPT and some of the tables look different. He put everything into a excel spreadsheat.

[ScarabEpic22]

Im still using the V1 7.5. Would it still be the same.

No, if you have a V1 you cannot use EFILive Scan & Tune V8 to read/flash. I imagine EFILive will be releasing an update soon to fix this issue for V7.5.

[andysc3]

does anyone already have tuning data for the Fast 65# injectors? part #30657

[andysc3]

I upgraded to the Commercial and going to switch to the COS3 this afternoon. Im getting my stock Fuel rail modded to work with the NNBS intake. So I will be using the stock FPR. Any more tips/tricks before I start?

[andysc3]

The tuning data for my injectors are from HP tuners. If I sent the tuning data that I got for the Fast 65# injectors would someone convert it to EFI Live or show me how to convert it to EFI Live.

[joecar]

I upgraded to the Commercial and going to switch to the COS3 this afternoon. Im getting my stock Fuel rail modded to work with the NNBS intake. So I will be using the stock FPR. Any more tips/tricks before I start?The stock FPR is manifold referenced...?

[joecar]

The tuning data for my injectors are from HP tuners. If I sent the tuning data that I got for the Fast 65# injectors would someone convert it to EFI Live or show me how to convert it to EFI Live.pm sent.

[andysc3]

13512
Here is the tune.

[andysc3]

The procharger is going on on Friday. And going to start tuning that afternoon. And there is a test n tune at the local track I may go to on Saturday. Any advice? Should I start with pulling 20* of timing throughout the boost range? That will make my max timing around 10-11*. Boost will be in the 8-10 psi. Not sure really. It's the stock 4.38" pulley and going to start shifting at 6300 and bump the shift points up throughout the day.
Thanks

[joecar]

Andy, is your FPR manifold-referenced (IFR flat) or un-referenced (IFR sloped)...?

[andysc3]

it will be referenced. and will be 1-1 with boost

[andysc3]

For A0010, Boost timing table, Where does it subtract the timing from. When I look at the high octane timing table it goes to 1.20 Grams/Cylinder. Right now Im at about .85 g/cyl. With boost wont that take me past that point? And since the procharger makes boost with RPMs do I want A0010 to be about the same # across the board? Im currently running 31* max at my shift point, if I set it to 20 that will make my final timing 31, correct? and I am running 22* at the lowest so that would be 2*. Does that sound right? Thanks for the help
Andy

[joecar]

it will be referenced. and will be 1-1 with boostYour B4001 IFR table needs to be flat (same value in all cells)...

From the FAST 65 data you showed me (as I interpret it):
the pressure delta is 400 kPa (since the FPR reference cancels out MAP above and below the injector) which equals 58 psi;
from the spreadsheet 58 psi is closest to pressure delta 59.2 psi gives 65 lb/hr or 8.19 g/s (calculated from 65*0.126);

[ assuming your measured rail pressure is 58 psi with reference hose temporarily removed ]

correcting to 58 psi: 65*sqrt(58/59.2) = 64.3 lb/hr = 8.10 g/s (64.3*0.126);

so your B4001 IFR table should contain 64.3 lb/hr or 8.10 g/s in all cells.

[andysc3]

Thanks. Is there anything else that needs to be changed for the injectors?

[joecar]

The FAST 65 spreadsheet contains the voltage offset table in transposed form, and the axis is in psi and it is in pressure difference rather than vacuum...

so you would have to convert it to vacuum in kPa

(convert axis to kPa, and then subtract each axis label from BARO (101 kPa)

[joecar]

In the FAST 65 spreadsheet the Small Pulse Adder goes into the B4005 Small Pulse Adjust table, but it skips every other cell.

[joecar]

In the FAST 65 spreadsheet the Minimum Injector Pulsewidth goes into B4003 Minimum Injector Pulsewidth, but again the axis doesn't line up.

[joecar]

( that FAST spreadsheet is hard to use )

[joecar]

make B3616 PE Enable a little easier to trigger PE (set it to 60% below 4000 and 30% above 4000);

make the 0-3200 rows of B3647 the same as 3600 and up (i.e. copy/paste lower part to upper part);
and then make B3618 the same as the 100kPa column of B3647.

[joecar]

Fix the out-of-range cells in A0009, A0012, A0013

[ A0009: reduce the ve value; A0012,13: set it to max-1 ]

[joecar]

B5913/B5914 HO/LO Spark Timing tables will need to be reduced.

[joecar]

For A0010, Boost timing table, Where does it subtract the timing from. When I look at the high octane timing table it goes to 1.20 Grams/Cylinder. Right now Im at about .85 g/cyl. With boost wont that take me past that point? And since the procharger makes boost with RPMs do I want A0010 to be about the same # across the board? Im currently running 31* max at my shift point, if I set it to 20 that will make my final timing 31, correct? and I am running 22* at the lowest so that would be 2*. Does that sound right? Thanks for the help
AndyA0010 subtracts from whatever the PCM computes as spark timing...

when MAP goes above 105 kPa, when 1.20 g/cyl is exceeded, the PCM uses the timing value from that final column (1.20 g/cyl), and A0010 then subtract from that value.

As MAP increases above 105 kPa my understanding is you want to subtract more timing.

[andysc3]

OK, I set the PE to trigger a little earlier than what you suggested. The 3700 rpm torque converter is rather loose and Im at about 3k rpm just to keep up with traffic. I adjusted 3647 and 3618. What is a safe AFR for boost. Its set to 10.5 for now. How much do I need to reduce the timing tables? As for the injector data. Its a good thing I have the next two days off work lol.

[joecar]

For significant load at boost you would have to get the AFR to something like 11.4-11.8 or so...

10.5 seems too rich to me, but let's get more opinions.

[andysc3]

OK, Id rather have it alittle rich at first vs too lean and melt a piston lol. For the missing values in B4005, can I avg the cells on each side and put it there? And the same for B4003?

[andysc3]

as far as A0009 being out of range, all the cells are in range so Im not sure why thats coming up.

[andysc3]

The FAST 65 spreadsheet contains the voltage offset table in transposed form, and the axis is in psi and it is in pressure difference rather than vacuum...

so you would have to convert it to vacuum in kPa

(convert axis to kPa, and then subtract each axis label from BARO (101 kPa)

Ok so for this, Would I be able to cheat and set the table to PSI? lol
if not is there a simple equation to convert the psi to kpa?
and once thats done I need to subtract each cell by 101?

[andysc3]

Ok, heres what I have so far.

13526

[joecar]

OK, Id rather have it alittle rich at first vs too lean and melt a piston lol. For the missing values in B4005, can I avg the cells on each side and put it there? And the same for B4003?
Yes.

[joecar]

as far as A0009 being out of range, all the cells are in range so Im not sure why thats coming up.try this trick:
- set those cells to 9.8,
- save file,
- exit tunetool,
- restart tunetool,
- set those cells to 10 (max),
- save file.

[joecar]

Ok so for this, Would I be able to cheat and set the table to PSI? lol
if not is there a simple equation to convert the psi to kpa?
and once thats done I need to subtract each cell by 101?Yes, set tunetool units to psi and paste the table in as best as you can, but read below first;

subtract the axis from 101 in kPa... but since you're pasting it in in psi, subtract from 14.7 psi...

i.e. do: (14.7 - axis) before pasting in table (i.e. it reverses the table left-to-right.


You also have to transpose axis's on the table (use the tunetool's transpose tool, or a spreadsheet).

[andysc3]

Ok, Now this is really starting to confuse me. Companies should really include the tuning data with the injectors.

[andysc3]

I think I have everything for the injectors except the Injector pulse width voltage. Any help with that one?

[joecar]

I think I have everything for the injectors except the Injector pulse width voltage. Any help with that one?You mean table B3701...?


Look at the units on each of it's axis... and compare these with the Fast spreadsheet...

you have to convert that array in the Fast spreadsheet as follows:
- convert the pressure axis labels to kPa (divide by 14.7 and multiply by 101),
- reverse the pressure axis (to make it vacuum) by subtracting each axis label from 101 and reversing the order,
- transpose the whole table (swap x and y axis and swap the data across the diagonal);

I can do that, give me a day or two...

[joecar]

Yeah, that spreadsheet from FAST is really unfriendly.

[andysc3]

If you would be so kind that would be great. Math is not my strong point lol. The spreadsheet was from the guy I bought the injectors from. He made it and emailed it to me.

[joecar]

Andy, I sent you the voltage offset table with axes transposed and with psi axis converted to kPa (check your email).

[andysc3]

Got it. Thank you very much.
This is what I have so far.
A0009 is still showing out of range. But all of the cells are in range. Did I miss something?
13531

[darcy]

A0009 is still showing out of range. But all of the cells are in range. Did I miss something?


You need to set the values to an in-range value other than the maximum that is currently displayed, or EFILive won't actually make the change.
Follow all the steps Joe's listed in post #34.

[andysc3]

All of the values are in range. Its the boost ve map.

[darcy]

A0009 aren't all in range.

Any of the cells with the little blue triangles in the corners are out of range.
EFILive is just displaying them as the highest in-range value it knows (10.000)

Change all of the cells that currenlty display at 10.000 to 9.9 (or whatever you choose), then save, exit and reopen.
After that you can set them back to 10 if thats teh value you're lookign foor.

[andysc3]

there are no cells with blue triangles
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu354/andysC3/boost.png

[darcy]

This is what I see whith your tune open.
13532

It seems they only appear out of range with the blue triangles if you view it in g*K/kPa

[andysc3]

not sure why it would show two different ways. its there an advantage of one over the other?

[joecar]

If you updated those cells in A0009 with values other than max or min then they are now in-range (and the blue OOR dogears have disappeared)... you are now good.

[andysc3]

Ok, thank you. Also started to swap the injectors in, and I ordered the wrong freakin adaptors. So Im going to order the USCAR pigtails and solder them on. Thanks for the help

[andysc3]

Got the procharger installed last Friday. Went fairly smooth. The kit was for a 05 and I installed it on my 01. There were a few minor differences. But it worked out and looks awesome. The 42# injectors were maxed out at 4700 rpm and about 5.5 psi
Injectors are in and the truck is running. Fuel pressure is 50psi at idle. Idle afr is the same are before. 14.8-15.2. Would like to thank Joecar for the help with getting me set up with the tuning data for the Fast injectors. Now I need to start doing some logging and getting this thing tuned.
I will say that 55% throttle will be about 4400 rpm and 4 psi and its a blast. cant wait to see what it can do now.

[andysc3]

Did some wot tuning this morning and ran into a issue. Got the afr steady at 11.3-11.6 throughout the pull. Running out of injector at 5700rpm. Set the wot 1-2 shift to 5500 and 33mph but its not shifting. Will pull to 5900 and go into REP more. Is there another table that needs to be changed? I'm on my phone so I can't post the tune until I get home in the morning. Thanks

[andysc3]

WOT 13620
short drive 13621
Tune 13622

[andysc3]

Need help. truck still will not shift at wot. I can do a 85% throttle and will shift based on the mph. but at 100% it will not shift.
13636
13637

I already adjusted the VE, spark and 2-3 shift mph so that it doesnt hit the rev limiter

[joecar]

Your WOT downshift speeds have to be below the corresponding WOT upshift speeds or it won't do the WOT upshifts...

compare these (fix them all in one edit):
- D0925-7 to D0910-2;
- D0930-2 to D0915-7;
- D0935-7 to D0920-2 (only if you want to do WOT 3->4 shift);

( each table on the left should be below the corresponding table on the right by at least 5 mph )

[andysc3]

Thank you. I am always forgetting the downshift speeds. I fixed those tables. Ill try again tonight.

[andysc3]

What about d0906 and d0907, do they need to be below d0901 and d0902?

[joecar]

Yes, correct...

all the downshift speeds have to be below the corresponding upshift speeds for all those tables (this is a general rule).

[andysc3]

ok, just wanted to make sure. Ill update the tune and try again tonight.

[andysc3]

So I did some logs tonight. It is shifting but its still a little high. it would hit the fuel cutoff then shift. Noticed two things in the log, I only got 92% throttle and the MPH was a little higher than my commanded shift. So I updated the tune but I didn't get a chance to test it out. Heres the log and the adjusted tune.
13652
13653

[andysc3]

Quick question on making maps. I am trying to make a map for my boost VE table. I followed the tutorial on making maps, but its not quite right. Its only showing one number. like .9. I tried using the 2bar ve map for the LC1 but its showing values way off. such as a table will be 1.10 on the 2 bar and the normal ve map will show .95. Any ideas on what I need to change.

[joecar]

So I did some logs tonight. It is shifting but its still a little high. it would hit the fuel cutoff then shift. Noticed two things in the log, I only got 92% throttle and the MPH was a little higher than my commanded shift. So I updated the tune but I didn't get a chance to test it out. Heres the log and the adjusted tune.
13652
13653I'll take a look tomorrow.

[joecar]

Quick question on making maps. I am trying to make a map for my boost VE table. I followed the tutorial on making maps, but its not quite right. Its only showing one number. like .9. I tried using the 2bar ve map for the LC1 but its showing values way off. such as a table will be 1.10 on the 2 bar and the normal ve map will show .95. Any ideas on what I need to change.You can increase the precision to more decimal digits... goto map properties, and on the Data tab set precision to 4;

in the tunetool, when viewing the VE table click the button labelled +.00 to increase the VE cell precision

( did I understand your question...? )

Post screenshots of your maps...

( If you only see one column in the map, check the units of MAP in the scantool and set it to Metric (on the PIDs tab) ).