Bosch Motorsports100hp injectors and timing/fuel rattle

[cumminsDK]

I have an 06 with the bosch motorsports injectors and truck ran fine and sounded great before installing these, other than the occasional hard start and exhaust haze. Upon installation I copied my % values from the timing calculator, removed 15% from main and pilot pulse tables the pasted my % values back into the calculator and ever since I have bad rattle in gear not moving and light acceleration low rpm. I understand these injectors use a 143* cone angle compared to the stock 124*. If I understand this correctly these injectors spray wider meaning less possible max timing? I have tweaked many things to eliminate this rattle but it prevails. Any one have experience with these our any suggestions would be much appreciated!

Thanks
Trent

[06redram]

Adjust your pilot table

[2007 5.9]

Log pilot duration...bet it's too low now.

Low pilot duration will cause rattle. If its lower than 250uS it will rattle.

If it is the case, don't up tge duration, up the pilot quantity.

[06redram]

Thanks for helping me explain pilot tables :)

[cumminsDK]

Thanks guys, I actually raised pilot duration after posting this, and it helped so now I've raised mm3 and will load it in a.m. also I'm at 9600 ft right now on vaca. so that is giving me more smoke and less boost psi but I think I remedied that too...will post back

[06redram]

Glade we can help a fellow EFI owner :)

[2007 5.9]

Can't get this level of support from the "Box" guys!!!

[06redram]

Nope; u sure can't! You got to LUV EFI Live. My wife told me that I need to marrie that little blue box ( V2 ) :)

[06redram]

2007 5.9 are you Les

[2007 5.9]

2007 5.9 are you Les

I am....

[cumminsDK]

Yeah the support is awesome here, good compliment to am excellent tool.

[06redram]

That is true

[06redram]

I am....

I like to thank you Les for all your input and out put on how to work with EFI live. I been following you and Dave with doghouse, Zac Fuller, kory W, Dan diesel, Andrew aka Fubar. You all rock on the helping the newbies that are trying to learn.👍

[2007 5.9]

That's what we are ALL here to do...hell I'm still learning as well.

Not in my nature to have info and not share it!!

[06redram]

Les I feel those that take and not give are so wrong. I am also like 1 year new into the EFI live game, receive so much help I have to give back what I receive.

[kaiserbailey]

Log pilot duration...bet it's too low now.

Low pilot duration will cause rattle. If its lower than 250uS it will rattle.
Even with huge injectors?


If it is the case, don't up tge duration, up the pilot quantity.
If you up the quantity, isn't duration the only thing that changes when talking about pilot?


Questions in red.:notacrook:

[2007 5.9]

I have found that the bigger the injector, the more critical pilot becomes.

I have a customer with 250% over Exergy injectors that was tuned by someone else..had WICKED rattle at all levels.

Contacted me to work on the tuning for him, since the first guy either quit or was no longer interested in tuning this truck, I sent him a tune and same thing...WICKED rattle.

Mind you this is the round about similar tune I run on my 100% over pulling truck. So I had him log it and low and behold, with a STOCK pilot duration table BUT a decreased pilot mm3 table..it rattled and the pilot duration wasn't even close to following the table (pilot uS was in the 150-195uS area) which isint even close to being in the same realm as the duration table would lead you to believe. So I added mm3 until the duration was over 250uS and BAM rattle solved all across the board.

So I have come to terms with the fact that so far the pilot pulse table is merely a REFERENCE to MAX pulse allowed and not necessarily a followed to a "T" table.

So as I have experimented with my truck having 90's when i started tuning a year ago, to 180's back to stocks and now with some smallish 55LPM stix, I have had to change the pilot MM3 table to avoid any sort of rattle and that changing the pilot pulse was futile. Going from the stockers to the 55LPM just recently I had a not loud but noticeable rattle at the crack of the throttle and nothing else...upped the mm3 by 3% fixed it.

So as we all know...EVERY TRUCK requires a little tweaking to get it right.

Seems to me that the ECM uses the given pilot timing and requested mm3 and calculates the necessary uS to achieve proper fueling, subtract the necessary uS to achieve the given fueling to maintain x condition and viola...confusion on the part of the tuner.

Lol, that last apart was me just talking out my arse...Im tired.

[kaiserbailey]

I have found that the bigger the injector, the more critical pilot becomes.

I have a customer with 250% over Exergy injectors that was tuned by someone else..had WICKED rattle at all levels.

Contacted me to work on the tuning for him, since the first guy either quit or was no longer interested in tuning this truck, I sent him a tune and same thing...WICKED rattle.

Mind you this is the round about similar tune I run on my 100% over pulling truck. So I had him log it and low and behold, with a STOCK pilot duration table BUT a decreased pilot mm3 table..it rattled and the pilot duration wasn't even close to following the table (pilot uS was in the 150-195uS area) which isint even close to being in the same realm as the duration table would lead you to believe. So I added mm3 until the duration was over 250uS and BAM rattle solved all across the board.

So I have come to terms with the fact that so far the pilot pulse table is merely a REFERENCE to MAX pulse allowed and not necessarily a followed to a "T" table.

So as I have experimented with my truck having 90's when i started tuning a year ago, to 180's back to stocks and now with some smallish 55LPM stix, I have had to change the pilot MM3 table to avoid any sort of rattle and that changing the pilot pulse was futile. Going from the stockers to the 55LPM just recently I had a not loud but noticeable rattle at the crack of the throttle and nothing else...upped the mm3 by 3% fixed it.

So as we all know...EVERY TRUCK requires a little tweaking to get it right.

Seems to me that the ECM uses the given pilot timing and requested mm3 and calculates the necessary uS to achieve proper fueling, subtract the necessary uS to achieve the given fueling to maintain x condition and viola...confusion on the part of the tuner.

Lol, that last apart was me just talking out my arse...Im tired.

Wow, awesome and valuable info Les. Thanks for sharing with us.

Seems to me like there might be a table we can't see yet....

[2007 5.9]

I wouldn't say there is a table were missing, more along the lines that we need to spend more time figuring out JUST what each table ACTUALLY does and if it acts alone of is dependent upon values within another table for it to reference from.

Like i said...I am learning everyday with this... and I think to be a excellent tuner, that trend MUST continue. If you know it all and how it all works...you get stale.