My AutoVE questions

[mys10v8]

I am on my second iteration of AutoVE logging and have a few questions:

1) The BEN transition filter included with the scan tool includes a 2500 RPM limit - Why?
2) Can/Should I modify the 400 rpm row in my Main VE table to better match the curve the 800 rpm row is creating?
3) I am thinking I should hook up my 3500lb boat trailer to get better coverage in the logs. Any comments/concerns about this?
4) Any of you experts think I am missing anything in the logs? - see any issues?

Hardware: 99 S10 2WD pickup, LS1/A4/MAF/TB from 2000 Z28, LS1B, FAST intake, TPIS cam/springs (specs attached), shorty headers, 2.5" dual exhaust
Software: OS from Silverado modified to run LS1 - IFR/transmission/MAF calibrations from Camaro OS

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I am a long time reader and first time poster - thanks to all the experts who take the time to contribute to this forum.

--Joe

[joecar]

Hi Joe,

welcome to the forum :cheers:

1) delete the 2500 rpm line;

2) yes (the VE table should not contain any sudden hard steps);

3) loading the engine allows better cell hit counts, dragging the brakes helps (for a short time), IDK about hauling a boat trailer (how fast can you go);

4) I'll have to view your files later today...

--Joe

[mys10v8]

To continue the story: Ran through iterations/logs of AutoVE. I have attached them all.

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All these logs were combined with the weighted average xls from here:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?6730-merging-log-files

When copying into xls I did NOT filter low count cells hoping the summation of all the log files would get me a few more cells with counts > 50. The transient filter was applied before copying into xls.

Does my WBO2AFR1 jump around more than 'normal'?

[mys10v8]

These are the tune files I created from above posted logs. One w/just the logs applied, another was manually smoothed.
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By the looks of other VE tables I've seen around here this should be smother than it is.

What do I do with the cells I did not cover in the logs but bumped by 15% as per the AutoVE tutorial?

[mys10v8]

This log (and the autoVE_0003d.efi above) was with the boat attached - my rolling chassis dyno - made it easier to hold the BEN in each cell.

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This is what is loaded into the truck now (new Main VE and SD):
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A couple short logs of LTFT with new tune - they are looking quite negative:
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So what's the effect of just updating the Main VE and not setting it for SD as per Tutorial (C2901, C2903, C6002, B5914)?

[joecar]

To continue the story: Ran through iterations/logs of AutoVE. I have attached them all.

13740
13741
13742
13743
13744

All these logs were combined with the weighted average xls from here:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?6730-merging-log-files

When copying into xls I did NOT filter low count cells hoping the summation of all the log files would get me a few more cells with counts > 50. The transient filter was applied before copying into xls.

Does my WBO2AFR1 jump around more than 'normal'?That spreadsheet is interesting... :cheers:

I prefer to take a 20 minute log covering my operating range, and immediately apply this, and to then re-log on this new tune...

( the scantool/tunetool human interface is designed to make this easy )

[joecar]

These are the tune files I created from above posted logs. One w/just the logs applied, another was manually smoothed.
13745
13746

By the looks of other VE tables I've seen around here this should be smother than it is.

What do I do with the cells I did not cover in the logs but bumped by 15% as per the AutoVE tutorial?Your smoothed VE is good as it stands, there is no need to make it any smoother.

It seems that 15% is too large for the initial bump... study the trend that AutoVE is applying, and manually apply this to the non-hit cells.

[joecar]

This log (and the autoVE_0003d.efi above) was with the boat attached - my rolling chassis dyno - made it easier to hold the BEN in each cell.

13747
13748

This is what is loaded into the truck now (new Main VE and SD):
13749

A couple short logs of LTFT with new tune - they are looking quite negative:
13750
13751

So what's the effect of just updating the Main VE and not setting it for SD as per Tutorial (C2901, C2903, C6002, B5914)?You tuned mostly the low RPM potion of the VE table, and the 4c log shows trims going negative as you get into the upper RPM's...

also, you have to set the scantool to automatically look for DTC's... we want to see if the MAF failed (which indicates that the PCM is using the VE table exclusively)... if the MAF is not failed (no MAF DTC) then the PCM is still using the MAF or it calculates MAF values from the VE table.

If you don't fail the MAF, then the PCM uses the MAF most of the time (always above 4000 rpm and during steady state air/throttle conditions under 4000 rpm (B0120)), so modifying the VE table has no effect.

[joecar]

More comments:

set B3608, B3609 to zero (permanently).

set B3615, B3616 to 65% below 3200 and 35% above 3200 (permanently).

set B3618 to EQR 1.165 (AFR 12.6) regardless of tutorial (permanently).


set C6001 P0101-3 to A:1-Trip or C:Non-Emissions, make sure one of those DTC's triggers (whenever running SD).

[joecar]

is FPR manifold-referenced or un-referenced...? If FPR is manifold-referenced then the sloped IFR is incorrect.

[joecar]

Use CALC.WO2BEN from calc_pids.txt found in Calc.VET thread, some of us think this is a better BEN pid.


Try to operate throttle in more smooth/progressive manner, the idea is to have the transient filter keep more of the data.

Need to reach higher rpm's in each logging session.

[joecar]

When finished tuning, if you return to MAF operation, remember to restore the original LO Spark table B5914.

[joecar]

You might find it very interesting to try out the Calc.VET tutorial... it progresses very quickly and usually gives good results (it does both VE and MAF at the same time, results in good LTFT's).

[joecar]

Hi Joe, sanity check your wideband by seeing what it reads when engine is off, and then at also with engine at WOT.

[mys10v8]

You tuned mostly the low RPM potion of the VE table, and the 4c log shows trims going negative as you get into the upper RPM's...

also, you have to set the scantool to automatically look for DTC's... we want to see if the MAF failed (which indicates that the PCM is using the VE table exclusively)... if the MAF is not failed (no MAF DTC) then the PCM is still using the MAF or it calculates MAF values from the VE table.

If you don't fail the MAF, then the PCM uses the MAF most of the time (always above 4000 rpm and during steady state air/throttle conditions under 4000 rpm (B0120)), so modifying the VE table has no effect.

I manually checked DTCs when logging and confirmed the MAF was failed.
I'll try to get another log today covering higher rpms and DTCs

[mys10v8]

I prefer to take a 20 minute log covering my operating range, and immediately apply this, and to then re-log on this new tune...

( the scantool/tunetool human interface is designed to make this easy )

Agreed, that is what I will do going forward. I was just seeing if I could get BBL to work and thought I'd throw that data into the mix as long as I had it.

[mys10v8]

is FPR manifold-referenced or un-referenced...? If FPR is manifold-referenced then the sloped IFR is incorrect.
FPR is un-referenced. I could hook a vacuum line to it if that would produce better results.

You might find it very interesting to try out the Calc.VET tutorial... it progresses very quickly and usually gives good results (it does both VE and MAF at the same time, results in good LTFT's).
lol... I was just reading that this morning to prepare for that round of tuning. I'll still do another AutoVE log using all your suggestions then try Calc.VET.

[mys10v8]

you have to set the scantool to automatically look for DTC's...


hmmm. That is set to auto save DTCs prior to auto-saving file but I have been turning vehicle off before stopping logging in scantool so I bet it couldn't grab DTCs.

[joecar]

I manually checked DTCs when logging and confirmed the MAF was failed.
I'll try to get another log today covering higher rpms and DTCsok.


Agreed, that is what I will do going forward. I was just seeing if I could get BBL to work and thought I'd throw that data into the mix as long as I had it.ok.


FPR is un-referenced. I could hook a vacuum line to it if that would produce better results.Leave it un-referencedfor now.


lol... I was just reading that this morning to prepare for that round of tuning. I'll still do another AutoVE log using all your suggestions then try Calc.VET.ok.


hmmm. That is set to auto save DTCs prior to auto-saving file but I have been turning vehicle off before stopping logging in scantool so I bet it couldn't grab DTCs.That could be why.

Check that there are two places in Edit->Properties, on the Logging and Advanced tabs.

[mys10v8]

Why is it creating a canyon in the Main VE in 95kPa row? Does that mean the surrounding area is that far off?

Addition logs after recommendations from joecar:
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I applied these logs and did some adjustments to untouched cells. This is what's going back in the truck:
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[joecar]

Post some pics...

[mys10v8]

Post some pics...
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And this is a summation of cell counts from logs 0005-0008 above. It tells you which cells of the Main VE have been modified by the process and a total cell count for each. Most of the other cells are ~+6.4% from original tune. Any others were manually manipulated for smoothing.
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[joecar]

I'm looking thru your files...

[nonnieselman]

I always hook to a trailer for tuning.. it helps a ton with a turbo..
Hooked to the car hauler and loaded up a Z71 tahoe and i can pull thru the rpms slowly but at full load..

[joecar]

Why is it creating a canyon in the Main VE in 95kPa row? Does that mean the surrounding area is that far off?

Addition logs after recommendations from joecar:
13764
13765
13766
I applied these logs and did some adjustments to untouched cells. This is what's going back in the truck:
13767Your log files contain 27 pid channels, this exceeds 24 pid channels, so you sampling rate will be 5 Samples/second rather than 10 S/s... this makes the data not as good (it has lower resolution).

[joecar]

Canyon at 95kPa: smooth down the VE table from 90kPa and up (flatten area surrounding canyon to eliminate canyon), save/flash it, and take another log.

[mys10v8]

I always hook to a trailer for tuning.. it helps a ton with a turbo..
Hooked to the car hauler and loaded up a Z71 tahoe and i can pull thru the rpms slowly but at full load..

I'm callin' it my rollin' dyno:
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Your log files contain 27 pid channels, this exceeds 24 pid channels, so you sampling rate will be 5 Samples/second rather than 10 S/s... this makes the data not as good (it has lower resolution).
:doh: It's amazing how many times you guys say that and how many times it gets read but then it doesn't get checked. Thanks for repeating it again. Would be nice if tool put up a big ugly stop sign to prevent that. It's a little more obvious in V8 Scan and Tune - the graphic goes red.


Canyon at 95kPa: smooth down the VE table from 90kPa and up (flatten area surrounding canyon to eliminate canyon), save/flash it, and take another log.

2 Logs taken (applied first log/re-flashed and logged again)
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Tune before above logs:
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Tune after above logs:
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[mys10v8]

This is a diff of the Main VE between the most recent tune file and the stock Main VE table (2002 Camaro).

1) If you stare at the above logs and tune file diffs long enough it looks like some values are getting lifted in the lower RPMs and may have lost some in the upper RPMs. This is what this cam is supposed to do. And, the areas that are still +~6% (from the tutorial bump) should probably be ratcheted down some more.

2) Look at the 2 cells highlighted in this diff @2800RPM and 90&95 kPa. In the last log they had counts of 150 and 99, respectively. Their values create a spike in the VE. Do I just push it back down or maybe I should stop over analyzing?

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[joecar]

1) push those plateau areas down a little (you say ~6%) and roughly smooth (fill in holes, lop off spikes);

2) lop off those spikes;

take another log and post.


How is your drievability and throttle response (in OLSD) at the moment...?