Realtime tuning with Moates RoadRunner

[Blacky]

http://www.moates.net/roadrunner/moates.jpg

EFILive Limited is pleased to announce our partnership with MoatesWare LLC. (www.moates.net (http://www.moates.net))

This partnership combines EFILive's world class tuning tools with the MoatesWare RoadRunner emulator to bring affordable, realtime tuning to the LS1.

EFILive and MoatesWare have worked closely to deliver a product that is integrated into the very heart of EFILive. The result is a seamless, powerful addition to the EFILive Tuning Tool.

Answers to all your questions (and screen shots) can be seen here:
http://www.moates.net/roadrunner/

If you have any questions not addressed by the information page, (or if you just want to comment) please post them in this thread.

Regards
Paul

[Redline Motorsports]

Is this the TOP SECRET timing device???????

I knew you guys where up to something!!! This is awesome!!!! Can't wait to use a device like this on the load dyno!!

When??

[hrodgmc]

Congrats:banana:

[joecar]

I saw posts on LS1tech about real-time-on-the-fly PCM flashing using this.

Combine this with Auto-Tuning....

Very cool, this blows everyone away...

:cheers:

[GMPX]

One of the big benefits is the time savings for both workshops and casual tuning guys, it will set them ahead of the rest.

Cheers,
Ross

[Redline Motorsports]

How far behind is the C5 stuff? For that matter, what about LS2/LS7? I just drove my ZO6 off the assembly line this morning! I need tuning!!!

[Blacky]

Is this the TOP SECRET timing device???????

I knew you guys where up to something!!! This is awesome!!!! Can't wait to use a device like this on the load dyno!!

When??

Yes, this has been under development for some time now. The RoadRunner is being distributed through www.moates.net and www.thunderracing.com
They would be able to tell you more about the availability of the RoadRunner hardware. The EFILive software is being packaged now...

Regards
Paul

[John Skiba]

competitors = :damnit1: :help:
competitors customers =:rippedhand: :bawl:

[John Skiba]

EFILive customer (once again) = :jump: :master: :cheers: :thankyou2:

[stevieturbo]

Doesnt EFILive already allow making changes to the map, whilst the engine is running ???

I thought that was the reason it was called EFI "live"

Ive just ordered the EFI Commercial Flashscan for use on a friends Monaro, and was under the impression this was the case, and was a major reason for choosing the product.

[MN C5]

Doesnt EFILive already allow making changes to the map, whilst the engine is running ???

I thought that was the reason it was called EFI "live"

Ive just ordered the EFI Commercial Flashscan for use on a friends Monaro, and was under the impression this was the case, and was a major reason for choosing the product.

Yikes, :nixweiss: at least you made the right choice in tuning software.

[stevieturbo]

mmmm, that reply doesnt sound promising.

[Blacky]

Doesnt EFILive already allow making changes to the map, whilst the engine is running ???

I thought that was the reason it was called EFI "live"

Ive just ordered the EFI Commercial Flashscan for use on a friends Monaro, and was under the impression this was the case, and was a major reason for choosing the product.
You're right EFILive was called "Live" because it can do those things in real-time. EFILive can alter the spark and fuel in realtime without using the RoadRunner.
However, with the addition of the new Moates RoadRunner unit you can change many more parameters in real time and change them more accurately.

Without the Roadrunner:
The Bidirectional control panel allows you alter the fuel to a set value for all cells. That allows you to hold the car at a problem rpm/load and adjust the fuel until it is correct. You can do the same with spark. However those changes are temporary and only last as long as EFILive is connected to the PCM. To make the changes permanent requires that you translate the changes you made with the bidirectional controls into changes in the tuning Tool calibration maps and then flash the changes into the PCM. That process is time consuming. It can take up to 5 minutes.
For a workshop using a dyno, if you had to make 20 changes, that's nearly 2 hours of time that could have been spent tuning. Or for a guy hiring a dyno, that's a lot of dyno time that could be used fine tuning the engine.

With the Roadrunner:
You make changes directly to the tuning tool calibration maps, the changes you make are permanent even after you disconnect EFILive. There is no down time, you can make many changes in just a few minutes.
You can change any calibration in the Tuning Tool using the Roadrunner, you are not limited to the bidirectional controls offered in EFILive's control panel.

The bidirectional control approach to tuning works well and is still one of the best ways to find and correct trouble spots. However, the new RoadRunner is a quantum leap forward in control and accuracy while tuning. Almost like the difference between carburetters and fuel injection. You can still make a great carby car, its just easier and more accurate with fuel injection.

Also don't forget about EFILive's AutoVE tuning using a wide band O2 to dial in the VE tables automatically just by driving around. That functionality is still important and very much supported in EFILive.

Regards
Paul

[bink]

mmmm, that reply doesnt sound promising.You won't be disappointed.
That's why you paid full price.
The people who buy EFILive products usually keep it/them.
Like a good watch - you may not wear it all the time....but you don't sell.
People keep valued items.

Cheers,
joel

[QUICKSILVER2002]

Ok, this will be the deal breaker ? for this product for many people.

Does it work with the custom OSs?

Seems like it would.

[Blacky]

Ok, this will be the deal breaker ? for this product for many people.

Does it work with the custom OSs?

Seems like it would.

Absolutely 100% fully supported with all EFILive's custom operating systems.

Regards
Paul

[joecar]

You won't be disappointed.

The people who buy EFILive products usually keep it/them.
Like a good watch - you may not wear it all the time....but you don't sell.
People keep valued items.
Joel is right, as you use EFILive you will come to wonder "How could I have done without this until now...?" and you'll wish you did it sooner.
Best money you could ever spend (not just on the car, but on anything in general).
:cheers:

[Scoota]

Just a quick question on this quote.


The EFI Live software license is $199 which allows EFI Live to work with your specific emulator.

If you already have an EFI Live license for other products, the realtime license is the same.

I am assuming if you already have an EFILive license, be-it workshop, commercial or personal that the $199 is not necessary in which case all we need is the emulator, or is this just a one-off fee to license the realtime part of the program.


Cheers Scotty.

[GMPX]

The $199 is a one off fee. For yourself, once you pay that you use RoadRunner on as many cars as you desire and then reflash the tune into the vehicles PCM as per normal.

Cheers,
Ross

P.S - Her indoors told me you called, yes, I really am in NZ, it was not an excuse :-)

[stevieturbo]

So, I have purchased EFILive which comes with 2 licenses. I would not need to purchase a license for Roadrunner if I decide to buy it ?

And this license would allow me to use the Roadrunner in any LS1 equipped vehicle too ( although its unlikely thats gona happen )

The other license would be required for use with the original Holden ecu ?

Regarding the auto-tune via wideband.... That was another major factor in me choosing EFILive too.
I do still believe I have chosen the right product, based on what is available. Its just a pity to get what I really wanted, I need to buy roadrunner ( or a stand alone ecu, although didnt really want to go down that route ). Alas, thats just the way things are.

I'll know better next week when I receive my EFILive though.

[Camaro SS]

So, I have purchased EFILive which comes with 2 licenses. I would not need to purchase a license for Roadrunner if I decide to buy it ?

And this license would allow me to use the Roadrunner in any LS1 equipped vehicle too ( although its unlikely thats gona happen )

The other license would be required for use with the original Holden ecu ?

Regarding the auto-tune via wideband.... That was another major factor in me choosing EFILive too.
I do still believe I have chosen the right product, based on what is available. Its just a pity to get what I really wanted, I need to buy roadrunner ( or a stand alone ecu, although didnt really want to go down that route ). Alas, thats just the way things are.

I'll know better next week when I receive my EFILive though. Yes you need to spend the 199 for the license to use the roadrunner even if you already have EFILive personal or commerical version. With the roadrunner you can tune as many LS1 vehicles as you want but to be able to write to the vehicle's original pcm you need to have an EFILive license for that.

[stevieturbo]

Yes, but EFILive comes with 2 licenses does it not ?

1 would do roadrunner, and the other the original pcm ??

I assume the roadrunner product is an outright sale, and does not require an exhange ecu to be sent to them ??

[Dirk Diggler]

it comes with two pcm licenses the roadrunner license is something seperate and costs more (and you need hardware to go with it ie a New RoadRunner PCM)

[stevieturbo]

Cheers, that clears that up....

[superls1]

The $199 is a one off fee. For yourself, once you pay that you use RoadRunner on as many cars as you desire and then reflash the tune into the vehicles PCM as per normal.



Is this true if I have already spent $7k on a workshop version? Moates indicates that I indeed need to cough up another $200. Just checking.

[Dirk Diggler]

Another 200 and the cost of the RoadRunner PCM unless you allready have it. The Workshop version allows you to flash any vehicle supported Craigs hardware allwos you to RT toon any vehicle supported but you have to pay for a RT tooning license....

[Blacky]

If you already have EFILive then you need to purchase RoadRunner and the $199 for the add on EFILive license to allow you to hook up the EFILive Tuning Tool software to RoadRunner.

For workshops users that's all there is to it - no more to pay.

For Personal/Commercial users, if you want to take the tune from the RoadRunner PCM and flash it into a different vehicle then it requires a PCM license as normal.

Regards
Paul

[superls1]

I love the product, and realtime will be super cool.

To be devil's advocate though, the workshop version kind of seems like I have already paid for 'all licenses'. From a workshop perspective, it seems more like an upgrade. Who gets the $199? The guy from Moates seems to indicate that he did all the work, so what am I 'getting' for my $199. Will my EFILive work any differently?

That being said, I will probably get one tomorrow. :) If this product weren't as good as it is, I would be fairly ticked off.

[Dirk Diggler]

Yes the Workshop version does pay for all licenses but they are PCM licenses. RT Tuning is licesensed by EFILive and Craig Moates and is not covered under your existing PCM License agreement. The workshop version only allows you to flash all of the vehicles EFILive supports without inccuring the additional 99.00 PCM License fee per vehicle. The RT licenses allows your EFILive software to talk with Craigs RT Hardware a totally different ball game...

[Craig Moates]

Folks,

Keep in mind that the EFI Live folks had to invest a good bit of work to get their software integrated with the new hardware, so it wasn't quite just a 'plug and play' deal for them. Not only the communications and security protocols, but integrating everything so that it is pretty seamless from a tuner's perspective. The realtime updates and everything that goes along with that.

Additionally, consider the new features that are on tap as the software side evolves. What it is today is great, but what it will be tomorrow is what has me really excited.

Not trying to justify anything here, just letting you know that the software side was a good bit of work. I don't even want to talk about the work on the hardware side, I'm spent!
:grd:

-Craig

[1998ws6]

If somebody does not own EFI live, can they just buy the roadrunner, and pay just the $199 license fee to be able to tune 1 car with the emulator as the pcm?

I already have another datalogging solution, and just want this for 1 vehicle and will keep the pcm in the vehicle being tuned.

Thanks

[Dirk Diggler]

you would still need the cable which will costs 699 or 849 depending on yor needs

[Redline Motorsports]

How far down the road can we expect to see a C5 version of the RR?

Howard

[Dirk Diggler]

How far down the road can we expect to see a C5 version of the RR?

Howard


To my understanding this is avaliable for all LS1/LS6 vehicles EFILive supports. So it currently supports C5's....

[wait4me]

that is correct :)

[Redline Motorsports]

I thought I read on Moates site that the F-body one is currently available and the C5 is still getting worked out. Something to do with the way the C5 PCM deals with the other computers in the car.

[Craig Moates]

The C5 has been tested out, and works fine. We did testing on a 99 Vette and had no problems once we figured out what we were doing!

The 1 meg PCMs haven't been tested yet, and the Diesel stuff has also not yet been tested. However, those are the next ones that are 'expected' to work.

I've tested a V6 PCM on the bench, and it seemed happy. That's another story though ;^).

[Redline Motorsports]

Oh thats great news Craig!

Thanks for clarifying this.

On another note; I had a customer call today with a Saturn Redline Ion. Is there anything going on a Moates with respect to there computers? Is the PCM the same as the new E38?

Thanks

Howard

[johnsZ06]

This is wonderful! Also, it seems like a inexspensive alternative for a replacement PCM should you accidently "fry" one! :master:

[madprof01]

just clarifying, this emulator works with 98 ls1 as well? sounds amazing!

[Dirk Diggler]

Nope no 98's

[Craig Moates]

No 98 support yet. However, I'll do what I can to try and support it. But it won't happen right away. Here's the priority list:

- 99-02 LS1/Trucks (done, supported)
- LB7 Diesel (under way, earliest testing looks promising)
- 03-05 LS1/Trucks (bench testing under way, no results yet)
- 98 LS1 (have dissected PCM for fitment, will require circuit layout change at least)

I'll also be putting together a little quick-start documentation guide so folks can understand what is involved to get up and running with this system. It actually is very easy once you've done it the first time. Like so many things in life.

[Blacky]

just clarifying, this emulator works with 98 ls1 as well? sounds amazing!

The current design does not, but investigations are underway to see if it is possible to make a version that does suit the 98s.

Regards
Paul

[Koncrete]

Sorry if I am being dense :nixweiss: but here is my question...

I buy the roadrunner 895 and the efilive license for 199, is that everything I need to tune my car?

[Craig Moates]

Yes. However, you'll need a datalogging solution to see what your vehicle is doing. The EFILive FlashScan cable is an ideal choice as a companion product.

[Koncrete]

holy quick post batman :Eyecrazy:

so do I need to buy the flashscan personal or commercial to do it right? poop time to get a second job for the auto-habit :help2:

[Dirk Diggler]

with the personal version you will be limited meaning you cant do full reflashes. Commercial allows you to do full reflashes and utilize the custom OS's EFILive has provided us with. Personally I woul dget commercial and be done with it.