VE table done now what.

[lstruck]

Okay so I've log the ve tables on 2 bar. Don't think they are getting any closer so now what do I do? before I had maf so I copied those values over. I want to just do SD so do I just copies my ve tables to the other tune. I also correct shift points. also changed values in desired air fuel to help with Idel. What things to I need to keep off and what do I need to turn back on? do i need to turn on STFT and LTFT and leave everthing else as is? Nothing I've read has real clear instructions on what I need to do.

[joecar]

If you want to run SD then you have to decide if you want OLSD or CLSD...

[lstruck]

I'm thinking CLSD but is there any disadvantage to this vs open loop.

[joecar]

CL is good, you will see better mpg.

So now you need to enable trimming and closed loop (can you see how...?).

[lstruck]

I must suck at searching because I didn't find anything that tell me how to do this...so Do i just enable stft and ltft what do I log do i need to create a map of some kind... sorry you have to spoon feed me so much. A link would be great!

[joecar]

Look at the AutoVE tutorial (each step describes what it does)...

in particular, look at how it disables trimming (B3801, B4206) and closed loop (B4205).


You should also re-enable DFCO B3313 and COTP B0701.

You should set B3605 and B5914 back to stock.

Important:
- set PE B3618 to suitably rich for load/WOT... (I hope you did not tune with this set to EQR 1.00).
- set PE Enable B3616 to enable properly (something like 65 below 3400 and 35 above 3400).
- I hope you had B4206 disbaled during tuning.

[joecar]

Post screenshots of your B3605, B3618, B3616.

[lstruck]

Look at the AutoVE tutorial (each step describes what it does)...

in particular, look at how it disables trimming (B3801, B4206) and closed loop (B4205).


You should also re-enable DFCO B3313 and COTP B0701.

You should set B3605 and B5914 back to stock.

Important:
- set PE B3618 to suitably rich for load/WOT... (I hope you did not tune with this set to EQR 1.00).

I DID..

- set PE Enable B3616 to enable properly (something like 65 below 3400 and 35 above 3400).
- I hope you had B4206 disbaled during tuning.
not in my COS.
I'll get screen shots up in a few.

[joecar]

Ok, COS does not have B3605 and B4206...

but COS has semi-open loop (SOL): in OL it will trim to any cell in B3647 that is stoich (using STFT)... (so for tuning, don't set any cells to stoich).

[lstruck]

1393613937139381393913940

[lstruck]

1394113942139431394413945

[lstruck]

okay you say look at auto ve but i clearly say's if using cos not to do this. so with Cos in never say do this for Closed Loop, Speed Density so what do I do?

Return the PCM to Closed Loop, Speed Density
Do not perform this section if you are using an EFILive custom operating system, V3 (i.e. 2/3 bar support) or later.
1. Start the EFILive Tuning Tool software and open the Original Tune.tun file.
2. Open calibration {C2901} “MAF High Frequency Fail 1" Set it to 1 Hz.
3. Open calibration {C2902} “MAF High Frequency Fail 2" Set it to 1 Hz. If calibration {C2902} is not available in the operating system that you are using, then ignore this step.
4. Open calibration {C2903} “MAF High Frequency Fail Limit" Set it to 1.
5. Open calibration {C6002} " Engine DTC MIL Enablers" Set P0101, P0102, and P0103 to No MIL.
6. Select menu option File->Load alternate calibration for comparison and select SDAutoVE_0000.tun.
7. Select menu option File->Display calibration difference summary and locate the {B0101} “Main VE table” calibration in the list. Click the link to highlight calibration {B0101}. Then, click the Update button at the bottom right of the screen to copy the data from the alternate calibration to the primary calibration.
If the {B0101} calibration is not displayed in the calibration difference summary window, then there is no difference between the primary and alternate {B0101} data. That can mean either your VE table was extremely accurate to begin with, or the AutoVE tuning process has not been competed correctly.
8. If you are tuning a 1997 - 2000 operating system, repeat step 5 for the {B0103} “Backup VE Table”.
9. Open calibration {B5913} "Spark High-Octane Table" Select all cells by clicking in the extreme top-left, grey cell. Right click on any cell and select Copy (Ctrl+C) Open calibration {B5914} "Spark Low-Octane Table" Right click in the top left cell and select Paste->Paste (Ctrl+V)
If you upgrade your PCM to EFILive’s Speed Density custom operating system, step 9 is not required. EFILive’s Speed Density operating system restored dual spark map and full adaptive spark control when running MAF-less.
10. Save your tune as My Documents\EFIlive\V7\Bins\Original Tune_0000.tun
11. Perform a calibration only reflash of Original Tune_0000.Tun into your PCM.

could you just highlight the parts i can and can not do? thanks.

[joecar]

In B3647 I would copy the 3600 rpm 80-100kPa values to the cells below 3600 rpm (same columns), and I would set PE B3618 to the same as the last column of B3647.

[joecar]

okay you say look at auto ve but i clearly say's if using cos not to do this. so with Cos in never say do this for Closed Loop, Speed Density so what do I do?

Return the PCM to Closed Loop, Speed Density
Do not perform this section if you are using an EFILive custom operating system, V3 (i.e. 2/3 bar support) or later.
1. Start the EFILive Tuning Tool software and open the Original Tune.tun file.
2. Open calibration {C2901} “MAF High Frequency Fail 1" Set it to 1 Hz.
3. Open calibration {C2902} “MAF High Frequency Fail 2" Set it to 1 Hz. If calibration {C2902} is not available in the operating system that you are using, then ignore this step.
4. Open calibration {C2903} “MAF High Frequency Fail Limit" Set it to 1.
5. Open calibration {C6002} " Engine DTC MIL Enablers" Set P0101, P0102, and P0103 to No MIL.
6. Select menu option File->Load alternate calibration for comparison and select SDAutoVE_0000.tun.
7. Select menu option File->Display calibration difference summary and locate the {B0101} “Main VE table” calibration in the list. Click the link to highlight calibration {B0101}. Then, click the Update button at the bottom right of the screen to copy the data from the alternate calibration to the primary calibration.
If the {B0101} calibration is not displayed in the calibration difference summary window, then there is no difference between the primary and alternate {B0101} data. That can mean either your VE table was extremely accurate to begin with, or the AutoVE tuning process has not been competed correctly.
8. If you are tuning a 1997 - 2000 operating system, repeat step 5 for the {B0103} “Backup VE Table”.
9. Open calibration {B5913} "Spark High-Octane Table" Select all cells by clicking in the extreme top-left, grey cell. Right click on any cell and select Copy (Ctrl+C) Open calibration {B5914} "Spark Low-Octane Table" Right click in the top left cell and select Paste->Paste (Ctrl+V)
If you upgrade your PCM to EFILive’s Speed Density custom operating system, step 9 is not required. EFILive’s Speed Density operating system restored dual spark map and full adaptive spark control when running MAF-less.
10. Save your tune as My Documents\EFIlive\V7\Bins\Original Tune_0000.tun
11. Perform a calibration only reflash of Original Tune_0000.Tun into your PCM.

could you just highlight the parts i can and can not do? thanks.You can do that in the COS (except step 9 as noted)... what all that does is sets you running in CLSD (it has you starting from the first tune file before doing AutoVE which in your case would be a COS file).

[lstruck]

Another question is it possible to use map max it out but at that point then go clsd/olsd on a COS

[joecar]

SD (CLSD, OLSD) require a functioning non-maxed out MAP value...

you should be running a 2-bar or 3-bar MAP sensor (my understanding is the Cobalt SS MAP sensor fits/works)... you will have to edit the MAP scaler parameters.

[lstruck]

I've already got the 2 bar map installed and did the ve for it but i was just wondering if i could run the maf in conjunction.

[joecar]

Yes, you can run the MAF if you're engine airflow is not going to max it out (the LS1 PCM limit is 512 g/s).


The COS does not restrict you to run MAF-less or OL...

With or without COS you can run any one of these that you choose:
- OLSD
- CLSD
- OLMAF
- CLMAF

can you see the difference between those...?

[lstruck]

sorry for all the questions. So could I run CLMAF max out pcm maf when it reaches 512 then default to clsd or does it not work that way I have to run one or the other if so then just tell me how to do that part.

[joecar]

No worries...

When the MAF maxes out on the PCM, the PCM uses the last value (512 g/s)...

so as a test/experiment you could run CLMAF and see if the MAF is ever maxed out... if it is then you can switch to CLSD and then always run it in CLSD.

To run CLMAF, you set the MAF fail parameters and O2/trim parameters/tables back to stock.

To tun CLSD you set the MAF fail parameters to fail the MAF (make sure that a MAF DTC trips).

[lstruck]

High lighted are the things I think should be copied over to update my tune on the previous 1 bar tune( in red)

So I just need confermation that the stuff below in red is what I need to change to update my 1 bar tune to the new 2bar clsd tune. Is this correct? thanks in advance.


Comparison summary: 10:19:35 am, Wednesday Sep 26, 2012

Calibration comparison between my tune on the new 2bar operating system.tun and SDAutoVE2b_0001(16thchange with boost good log)_000_0000.tun.
*Values that differ by more than 0.000100% are considered different.
]
A0009 "Boost VE Table" 26.196208 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 18,19 inclusive."
A0014 "IAT VE Multiplier" 199.999980 "Different from row 0 to row 18 inclusive."
A0008 "Open Loop ECT Commanded Fuel Multiplier" 139.160171 "Different from row 0 to row 18 inclusive."
B0101 "Main VE Table" 14.725599 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 18,19 inclusive."
B0302 "Max RPM for Barometer update" -15.625238 "CAL: 4000 <-> ALT: 2000" <-Not sure here

B3618 "PE Modifier Based on RPM" 0.207596 "Different from row 0 to row 18 inclusive."
B3647 "Commanded Fuel vs RPM (Normal)" 0.224180 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 16,18 inclusive."
B3649 "Commanded Fuel vs RPM (Ethanol)" 0.224180 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 16,18 inclusive."
B3801 "Long Term Fuel Trim Correction" N/A "CAL: Enable <-> ALT: Disable"
B4108 "STFT Idle Enable" N/A "CAL: Enable <-> ALT: Disable"
B4205 "Closed Loop Temp Enable" 47.210766 "Different from row 0 to row 18 inclusive."
B4307 "Desired Airflow" 3.422599 "Different from cell: 0,6 to cell: 1,10 inclusive."
B5913 "Spark High-Octane Table" -0.230190 "Different from cell: 4,17 to cell: 4,17 inclusive."
B5914 "Spark Low-Octane Table" -0.230190 "Different from cell: 4,17 to cell: 4,17 inclusive."
C6001 "Engine DTC Processing Enablers" N/A "Different from row 3 to row 5 inclusive." <--not sure how this changed
C2903 "MAF High Frequency Fail Limit" -0.025940 "CAL: 18 <-> ALT: 1"
C2904 "MAF Low Frequency Fail 1" 5.995000 "CAL: 1 <-> ALT: 1200"
C2907 "MAF Test Min Engine Speed" -0.781262 "CAL: 400 <-> ALT: 300"
C5501 "MAP Rationality Test RPM High" -23.437858 "CAL: 5000 <-> ALT: 2000"
C6301 "MAP Sensor Scaler" 7.772946 "CAL: 94.4336 <-> ALT: 193.9258"
C6101 "ETC Predicted Airflow" 12.156863 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 16,16 inclusive."
D0901 "Part throttle 1->2 Shift Speeds" 1.426719 "Different from cell: 0,10 to cell: 2,16 inclusive."
D0902 "Part throttle 2->3 Shift Speeds" 5.842679 "Different from cell: 0,6 to cell: 2,16 inclusive."
D0903 "Part throttle 3->4 Shift Speeds" 13.835355 "Different from cell: 1,15 to cell: 1,16 inclusive."
D0911 "WOT 1->2 Shift Speeds, Performance" 1.457237 "CAL: 60 <-> ALT: 66"
D0912 "WOT 1->2 Shift Speeds, Hot" 0.801099 "CAL: 51 <-> ALT: 54"
D0915 "WOT 2->3 Shift Speeds, Normal" -1.455711 "CAL: 129 <-> ALT: 123"
D0917 "WOT 2->3 Shift Speeds, Hot" -0.682078 "CAL: 103 <-> ALT: 100"
D0920 "WOT 3->4 Shift Speeds, Normal" 10.922408 "CAL: 215 <-> ALT: 260"
D0921 "WOT 3->4 Shift Speeds, Performance" -24.060426 "CAL: 359 <-> ALT: 260"
D0922 "WOT 3->4 Shift Speeds, Hot" -24.060426 "CAL: 359 <-> ALT: 260"
D0914 "Manual Hold Gear, 2nd, 1->2 Shift Speeds" 1.275654 "Different from row 11 to row 16 inclusive."
D2001 "Abuse Mode RPM Enable" 9.765923 "CAL: 6000 <-> ALT: 6800"

[lstruck]

I did have to change shift point and did rfig rfin in the middle of on the ve tune(lower rpm map was good I just worked on higher rpm changes after rfig and rfin update.

[lstruck]

No worries...

When the MAF maxes out on the PCM, the PCM uses the last value (512 g/s)...

so as a test/experiment you could run CLMAF and see if the MAF is ever maxed out... if it is then you can switch to CLSD and then always run it in CLSD.


To run CLMAF, you set the MAF fail parameters and O2/trim parameters/tables back to stock.

To tun CLSD you set the MAF fail parameters to fail the MAF (make sure that a MAF DTC trips).


I know maf is maxed out and has been for a while that's why I got a 2 bar but thanks so clsd it is.

[joecar]

Post your new tune and your old tune (containing the tables you want to copy to the new tune).

[lstruck]

my tune is orgin. sdauto is ve tune.

[joecar]

Fix these:



Out of Range calibration summary: 07:26:10 pm, Wednesday Sep 26, 2012

EFILive Custom Calibrations
{A0001} Forced Octane Scaler Percentage, was out of range when loaded.
{A0002} Octane Scaler Limiter, was out of range when loaded.

[joecar]

I think some portion of your VE is not filled in with current data (where it dips down)...

[joecar]

I hope you set the cells in B3647 and B3649 to values other than stoich (EQR 1.00) during tuning...

if you didn't, then the COS would have trimmed using STFT when running on these cells.

[joecar]

I think it's good to set B3618 to the same values as the 100kPa column of B3647 (B3618 is throttle based so it leads B3647 which is MAP based by a short time period).

I also think it's good to have the last few columns of B3647 and B3649 extend all the way down (up in the table) to 400 rpms (consider this: what happens when you go WOT at 800 rpms, you're going to need fuel).

[joecar]

With the COS you can run different HO B5913 and LOO B5913 spark tables (COS retains adaptive spark when MAF is failed).

[joecar]

For CLSD you can just enable trimming B3801 and closed loop B4205 (copy those into the new file).



High lighted are the things I think should be copied over to update my tune on the previous 1 bar tune( in red)

So I just need confermation that the stuff below in red is what I need to change to update my 1 bar tune to the new 2bar clsd tune. Is this correct? thanks in advance.


Comparison summary: 10:19:35 am, Wednesday Sep 26, 2012

Calibration comparison between my tune on the new 2bar operating system.tun and SDAutoVE2b_0001(16thchange with boost good log)_000_0000.tun.
*Values that differ by more than 0.000100% are considered different.
]
A0009 "Boost VE Table" 26.196208 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 18,19 inclusive."
A0014 "IAT VE Multiplier" 199.999980 "Different from row 0 to row 18 inclusive."
A0008 "Open Loop ECT Commanded Fuel Multiplier" 139.160171 "Different from row 0 to row 18 inclusive."
B0101 "Main VE Table" 14.725599 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 18,19 inclusive."
B0302 "Max RPM for Barometer update" -15.625238 "CAL: 4000 <-> ALT: 2000" <-Not sure here

B3618 "PE Modifier Based on RPM" 0.207596 "Different from row 0 to row 18 inclusive."
B3647 "Commanded Fuel vs RPM (Normal)" 0.224180 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 16,18 inclusive."
B3649 "Commanded Fuel vs RPM (Ethanol)" 0.224180 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 16,18 inclusive."
B3801 "Long Term Fuel Trim Correction" N/A "CAL: Enable <-> ALT: Disable"
B4108 "STFT Idle Enable" N/A "CAL: Enable <-> ALT: Disable"
B4205 "Closed Loop Temp Enable" 47.210766 "Different from row 0 to row 18 inclusive."
B4307 "Desired Airflow" 3.422599 "Different from cell: 0,6 to cell: 1,10 inclusive."
B5913 "Spark High-Octane Table" -0.230190 "Different from cell: 4,17 to cell: 4,17 inclusive."
B5914 "Spark Low-Octane Table" -0.230190 "Different from cell: 4,17 to cell: 4,17 inclusive."
C6001 "Engine DTC Processing Enablers" N/A "Different from row 3 to row 5 inclusive." <--not sure how this changed
C2903 "MAF High Frequency Fail Limit" -0.025940 "CAL: 18 <-> ALT: 1"
C2904 "MAF Low Frequency Fail 1" 5.995000 "CAL: 1 <-> ALT: 1200"
C2907 "MAF Test Min Engine Speed" -0.781262 "CAL: 400 <-> ALT: 300"
C5501 "MAP Rationality Test RPM High" -23.437858 "CAL: 5000 <-> ALT: 2000"
C6301 "MAP Sensor Scaler" 7.772946 "CAL: 94.4336 <-> ALT: 193.9258"
C6101 "ETC Predicted Airflow" 12.156863 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 16,16 inclusive."
D0901 "Part throttle 1->2 Shift Speeds" 1.426719 "Different from cell: 0,10 to cell: 2,16 inclusive."
D0902 "Part throttle 2->3 Shift Speeds" 5.842679 "Different from cell: 0,6 to cell: 2,16 inclusive."
D0903 "Part throttle 3->4 Shift Speeds" 13.835355 "Different from cell: 1,15 to cell: 1,16 inclusive."
D0911 "WOT 1->2 Shift Speeds, Performance" 1.457237 "CAL: 60 <-> ALT: 66"
D0912 "WOT 1->2 Shift Speeds, Hot" 0.801099 "CAL: 51 <-> ALT: 54"
D0915 "WOT 2->3 Shift Speeds, Normal" -1.455711 "CAL: 129 <-> ALT: 123"
D0917 "WOT 2->3 Shift Speeds, Hot" -0.682078 "CAL: 103 <-> ALT: 100"
D0920 "WOT 3->4 Shift Speeds, Normal" 10.922408 "CAL: 215 <-> ALT: 260"
D0921 "WOT 3->4 Shift Speeds, Performance" -24.060426 "CAL: 359 <-> ALT: 260"
D0922 "WOT 3->4 Shift Speeds, Hot" -24.060426 "CAL: 359 <-> ALT: 260"
D0914 "Manual Hold Gear, 2nd, 1->2 Shift Speeds" 1.275654 "Different from row 11 to row 16 inclusive."
D2001 "Abuse Mode RPM Enable" 9.765923 "CAL: 6000 <-> ALT: 6800"

[lstruck]

I think some portion of your VE is not filled in with current data (where it dips down)...
on ve i couldn't get an cell above 4000 rpm under 100kpa so I just kinda scaled it up...

[lstruck]

Fix these:

how do i fix that set them to like 90% 95%?

[lstruck]

I hope you set the cells in B3647 and B3649 to values other than stoich (EQR 1.00) during tuning...

if you didn't, then the COS would have trimmed using STFT when running on these cells.


Even if i had STFT and LTFT set to disabled?


So does this mean i need to redo my ve table?

[joecar]

Yes, all the COS's will do semi-open loop (STFT trimming on stoich cells) regardless of LTFT and/or STFT being disabled...

this means that the PCM was correcting ahead of you (so your wideband shows that no correction is required).

Yes, you will have to redo your VE table.

[joecar]

BTW: your COS has no STFT disable.

[lstruck]

they were when I logged I just changed it to try to finish it up...damn I've spent like 100 buck just on fuel for the ve tuning lol..

[lstruck]

Yes, all the COS's will do semi-open loop (STFT trimming on stoich cells) regardless of LTFT and/or STFT being disabled...

this means that the PCM was correcting ahead of you (so your wideband shows that no correction is required).

Yes, you will have to redo your VE table.



So can I just change all the ones in tables B3647 and B3649 to 1.01 or .99 or does it have to be like .90 or 1.10 ?

[joecar]

1.01 and 0.99 are fine.

[joecar]

they were when I logged I just changed it to try to finish it up...damn I've spent like 100 buck just on fuel for the ve tuning lol..

You should be able to get most of the useable VE table in a 20 minute drive... :)

[joecar]

Fix these:



Out of Range calibration summary: 07:26:10 pm, Wednesday Sep 26, 2012

EFILive Custom Calibrations
{A0001} Forced Octane Scaler Percentage, was out of range when loaded.
{A0002} Octane Scaler Limiter, was out of range when loaded.


how do i fix that set them to like 90% 95%?

Yes, set them to 99% or something...

have a read of these:


Fixing Out Of Range (OOR) Cells:
showpost.php?p=87052 (http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=87052&postcount=14) post #14
showthread.php?14119-3000-RPM-max-and-setting-codes-03-Z06-with-Magnuson-at-150kPa (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14119-3000-RPM-max-and-setting-codes-03-Z06-with-Magnuson-at-150kPa) posts #14, #17
showthread.php?14654-I-need-help-getting-the-most-out-of-my-car (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14654-I-need-help-getting-the-most-out-of-my-car) post#2

i.e. there's a trick to fixing OOR cells.

[lstruck]

Thank you I hope you get paid for this. I'll make a COS CLSD 2 bar map upgrade for dummies like myself when I finally get it right. then maybe you can make a sticky it may be like 30 pages but it will have pics like crazy lol.

[joecar]

Sure, we'll sticky it :cheers:

[lstruck]

For CLSD you can just enable trimming B3801 and closed loop B4205 (copy those into the new file).

the things you highlighted green....Do i need to change those too? because I thought I was suppose to keep those enabled to run clsd?

[joecar]

the things you highlighted green....Do i need to change those too? because I thought I was suppose to keep those enabled to run clsd?You want those enabled to run CLSD (that's why I marked them in green).

[5557nut]

Look at the AutoVE tutorial (each step describes what it does)...

in particular, look at how it disables trimming (B3801, B4206) and closed loop (B4205).


You should also re-enable DFCO B3313 and COTP B0701.

You should set B3605 and B5914 back to stock.

Important:
- set PE B3618 to suitably rich for load/WOT... (I hope you did not tune with this set to EQR 1.00).
- set PE Enable B3616 to enable properly (something like 65 below 3400 and 35 above 3400).
- I hope you had B4206 disbaled during tuning.

The parameter references you give are not in the current software efilive_tune.exe v7.5.32. These forums are a lifesaver to us beginners, but confusing when we look for these parameters and get example: "B3605 not found" and the others. Even the tutorials reference parameters that don't exist. How do we figure out where these parameters are? Thanks

[Blacky]

The parameter references you give are not in the current software efilive_tune.exe v7.5.32. These forums are a lifesaver to us beginners, but confusing when we look for these parameters and get example: "B3605 not found" and the others. Even the tutorials reference parameters that don't exist. How do we figure out where these parameters are? Thanks

Which controller type and operating system number are you editing?
Regads
Paul

[5557nut]

E38 os:12633056

[In-Tech]

I apologize for butting in. I understand newer users looking for a complete package that does or explains EVERYTHING. These "things" we buy are just TOOLS to help us do something that multitudes of OEM engineers have put together. It's hard but us engines builders and tuners know, we are never finished learning and improving :)

[Blacky]

E38 os:12633056

The thread is most likely explaining how to work with the LS1 VE table. So when it talks about B3605 (for example) it is referring to the commanded fuel when in open loop table for the LS1B controller.
The E38 controller has multiple commanded fuel tables which all have different names, the closest matching table is B0141.

I'm not sure how relevant any of the information (about tuning LS1B VE table) in that thread will be for tuning an E38.

Regards
Paul

[5557nut]

I apologize for butting in. I understand newer users looking for a complete package that does or explains EVERYTHING. These "things" we buy are just TOOLS to help us do something that multitudes of OEM engineers have put together. It's hard but us engines builders and tuners know, we are never finished learning and improving :)

I guess no one is getting the point. I am saying that the threads, whether Gas: GenIII or GenIV or E38. New users cannot relate to these threads because they reference out -of-date parameters. In-Tech you did butt in...I'm not saying I/we want a "be all/do all", maybe a cross reference of out dated parameters or use descriptions more. Problem is, EFILive not only renamed/deleted parameters, the names were changed making it impossible to learn how to manipulate tables from old references. When explaining issues it feels to me the explanations are like they are talking to someone with experience that understands the lingo. Even the tutorials reference parameters no longer used. Yes, I'm on a rant because I'm frustrated with the learning curve/process. Based on responses I feel sometimes responders don't get my question. I can handle "there is no cross reference", "there is no way to interpolate was is explained if you did not come in using the previous software. Blacky...I appreciate your response but am I expected to ask about matching parameters every time the parameters don't match the current software. I really want to learn but reading tutorial that do not relate to current parameters is unproductive. I wasn't trying to use LS1B VE but trying to learn a bout VE virtual tables. The VVE tutorial is good but is vague in places. Especially when saying to makes changes without saying why. Without a why I do not understand the repercussions of the change.
I wish there were some tuners close to Tallahassee, FL that I could get an EFILive training session or even had a dyno. I've only been doing this for 6mo, so I'll keep reading and logging when I can. Maybe it'll sink in on day.

[Blacky]

I guess no one is getting the point. I am saying that the threads, whether Gas: GenIII or GenIV or E38. New users cannot relate to these threads because they reference out -of-date parameters. In-Tech you did butt in...I'm not saying I/we want a "be all/do all", maybe a cross reference of out dated parameters or use descriptions more. Problem is, EFILive not only renamed/deleted parameters, the names were changed making it impossible to learn how to manipulate tables from old references. When explaining issues it feels to me the explanations are like they are talking to someone with experience that understands the lingo. Even the tutorials reference parameters no longer used. Yes, I'm on a rant because I'm frustrated with the learning curve/process. Based on responses I feel sometimes responders don't get my question. I can handle "there is no cross reference", "there is no way to interpolate was is explained if you did not come in using the previous software. Blacky...I appreciate your response but am I expected to ask about matching parameters every time the parameters don't match the current software. I really want to learn but reading tutorial that do not relate to current parameters is unproductive. I wasn't trying to use LS1B VE but trying to learn a bout VE virtual tables. The VVE tutorial is good but is vague in places. Especially when saying to makes changes without saying why. Without a why I do not understand the repercussions of the change.
I wish there were some tuners close to Tallahassee, FL that I could get an EFILive training session or even had a dyno. I've only been doing this for 6mo, so I'll keep reading and logging when I can. Maybe it'll sink in on day.

I'm sorry about not appearing to get your point. I actually got the point I was just trying to explain why you were seeing that issue...

Yes, the calibration names will change between controller types and yes that makes it difficult to follow tutorials/threads about older controllers when working on newer ones.
There are reasons for that: Newer controllers have more complicated sets of calibrations so there is no way to keep the names the same. For example the LS1B has about 3 tables related to fuel ratios at wide open throttle , the E38 has about 8 tables.

There is no cross reference because it is difficult and usually wrong to equate tables between different controllers.

For example the LS1B table B3605 "Commended Fuel When in Open Loop" is indexed using MAP kPa, the almost equivalent E38 table B0141 "Open Loop Normal Commanded Fuel In Gear" table is indexed using Valve Temperature DegC. It is not right to consider anything that is said about the LS1B table in relation to the E38 table without first understanding how the tables work. They work differently since one is based on manifold pressure and one is based on valve temperature. It would be foolish for EFILive to imply that the tables can be tuned/manipulated/considered the same - by providing a cross reference between those two tables.

Tuning can be complicated and each different platform should be considered a totally new tuning experience. Some tuning techniques are transferable between platforms but many are not or need to be modified to cater for different platform implementations. It looks like you're putting in the time and effort to learn so please don't take my reply as discouragement, I wish more people would take the time to learn like you are doing.

Regards
Paul

[joecar]

This thread is in the Gen III section of the forum.

You have a Gen IV (E38), I'll point you to the Gen IV tuning guide (VVE)... let me just find it...

[joecar]

See Gen IV (and also applicable to Gen V) VVE tuning here:

VVE-Setup-Guide (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?8961-E38-VVE-Setup-Guide)

[5557nut]

Paul...I am so appreciated of the response. I did miss these response notifications/email. I'll have to look into that.
I guess I'm the one missing the point. I did not look at the header to see the forum this thread is in...my bad.
I am so hungry to understand table/settings/relationships/parameters that I'm reading what I can get my hands on. I am noticing that even some of the E38 threads reference the LS1 tables or what's related to my 2010 E38, so I do get confused.
Thanks again...plodding along

[5557nut]

joecar...I did read that as well as E38-VVE_1.9-CLR. I was able to get my 2010 LS3 big cam manual 6spd running pretty good in OLSD for a newbie. I did post in Gen IV but I think I made it too complicated.
Warmed and off idle it screams, such a beast n haven't been brave enough to turn it loose on the highway...but getting there :)
The issue killing me now:
1. cold start(takes 3 or 4 cranks with light pedal press)
2. will not idle below 1300rpm
3. touchy pedal...can't hold at 2000-2500 wants to jump to 3000+
If your interested or anyone, here is the latest tune/log