2013 Cadillac ATS 2.0L..

[scdyne]

Is the ATS using the E39 ECM? Has anyone even seen one to attempt to take a scan from it?

[GMPX]

I believe it is Adam, but no reads have been submitted for support yet.

[Boost]

I'm EXCITED about thisss! :) An awd CTS with a Cobalt SS engine... like

[scdyne]

Boost, Not quite the SS engine. The LNF was updated to the LHU found in the Buick Regal GS. The engine in the ATS is a LTG and little of it is the same. I suspect a lot of the internals are, but the intake and exhaust tracks are reversed now and the head and timing chain cover are totally different. Some of the limited specs I have seen around mention a canister oil filter and composite intake manifold too. Almost sounds like we're going backwards..

[GMPX]

a canister oil filter
What the? Looks like someone's grandpa paid a visit to GM engineering.

[ScarabEpic22]

What the? Looks like someone's grandpa paid a visit to GM engineering.

All VW/Audis have canister oil filters, I scratched my head for a minute when I changed the oil on my brothers 08 VW Jetta.

[GMPX]

All VW/Audis have canister oil filters
That still doesn't mean it's a good thing :sly:
You might find that if European manufacturers are heading that way then the GM engine was probably designed in Europe. Actually, I've never looked on the Cruze 1.4L to see what it uses, that engine was designed in Europe.

[Boost]

Yeah all that is true and I was generalizing / exaggerating about the SS but you get my point. :) Seriously can we PLEEEASE confirm that all these are supported E39???? Even the Buick versions.... I forecast a war with a certain nazi tuning company that think their minions will control all the 2.0 market LOL little do they know the E39 switch puts a lot of regular folks back in the game ;)

Competition is great for business and development, enjoy it while it's still legal :s

[GMPX]

I would say with 99% confidence it will be an E39, but, as this is a newish ECM in a new model year I don't know what changes they might have made. What I mean by this is like on the T43, GM made some changes to the memory layout that threw us a curve ball in 2010+ models.

[Boost]

No problem, we'll be patiently standing by until you figure it out. :good: I just think it's an important one.

[scdyne]

OMG! Tell me about it! Had things been different and I actually has some say in the purchase of our family sedan I would likely be all over the ATS, but it was my wife's decision and we are now 328i owners. I Like the car, but the cost of aftermarket is just stupid and honestly my wife and I argue over who drives the 2007 SKY more than the 2012 328i..

My only concerns is with the overall strength of the new motor. Some GM docs show the rods as Forged powdered metal vs. Forged Steel. I suspect the initial data is for the 2.5L motor, but the 2.0L has forged steel like is the case with the LE5(2.4>) vs LNF(2.0L).
Also on the GMpowertrain.com shows an image of the new engine and you can see in fact it does have a blue canister filter near the exhaust manifold at the bottom of the engine. Also if I can find it somewhere I saw that the Modular balance shaft system was in oil pan rather than part of the main block like the rest of the ECOTEC blocks.

[cindy@efilive]

No problem, we'll be patiently standing by until you figure it out. :good: I just think it's an important one.

Couple of things to note here.
If it uses a standard E39 OS that's already been mapped, it's supported already, and we'd never know unless someone told us.

If it doesn't use a standard E39 OS, we won't know until someone tries to read the ECM and gets a message asking them to submit the file for support to be added. At that point the level of work required would become clear.

In anycase, at this point we just don't know, we haven't heard anything on either of my two points above.

Cheers
Cindy

[Boost]

Thank you Cindy for the good info! I am thinking of ways to do it, but the only realistic options are talk to a friendly dealer, and try I will, or buy one (YAY - I wish!!)

These things are just hitting the showrooms so I would definitely like to see EFILive get the 'hit' on the competition.

:cheers:

[VTuner]

I picked up our new ATS 2.0T (AWD Automatic) test mule this week. I can confirm that it is using a a new flavor of the E39 ECM (E39A).
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This car definitely has all the right ingredients to be an extremely popular platform for performance tuning - the handling is exceptional and there appears to be a considerable amount of performance left on the table by the GM calibrators, presumably to avoid cannibalizing on the 3.6L sales.

The acceleration performance is respectable in stock trim -For our AWD automatic I have observed an average 0-60 mph time of 6.30 seconds and best time of 5.975 seconds, but keep in mind that the gearing and transmission tuning in this model is not optimal for 0-60 performance (the car currently shifts from 2nd to 3rd at 58 mph, adding a few tenths to the 0-60 time). I can confirm that is is using a T43 controller and we can presently tune the transmission with EFILive.

Attached is a 0-60 mph data log from the stock engine running 93 octane fuel.


I will post updates as we begin upgrading the power output.

Cheers,
Brian

[Boost]

Congrats Brian!!! Can you also confirm that the ATS / Malibu T are running a newer refined version of the Verano T / Regal GS engine?

A few days ago I test drove a (sold haha) Verano T at a dealer, and in the process did a full read with a beta E39 file. Got some good info, definitely new stuff going on but very promising...

[VTuner]

Congrats Brian!!! Can you also confirm that the ATS / Malibu T are running a newer refined version of the Verano T / Regal GS engine?

A few days ago I test drove a (sold haha) Verano T at a dealer, and in the process did a full read with a beta E39 file. Got some good info, definitely new stuff going on but very promising...

The LTG is a new motor (3rd gen ecotec with a different block and head). Newer does not always mean better though -but we will find out soon enough :) I have found some inconsistent information published by GM so far, but this is what they have said: This is the all-new 2.0-liter turbo. It shares nothing, not even the block, with the 2.0-turbo in the Buick Regal today. Overally, this engine has reduced friction by 16% over the LHU.

but it at least has a Forged Crankshaft and Forged (powdered metal) connecting rods. I am sure the pistons will be of the hypereutectic variety with oil jets, but they could still be a weak point for the engine as we found for the LUJ motor.

[GMPX]

FYI, anyone who is interested, the E39A ECM read and flash is support in the next release candidate due any day now. This will get you sorted for any 2013+ SIDI application, though 2013 is a transition year, so some 2013 models will still use the older E39 and others the new E39A such as the 2013 XTS, ATS and Malibu. VTuner was brave enough to be the first test mule for the E39A beta update on he's ATS with good results too.
We had to spend a bit of time on this one, we needed to make sure there was no possible way someone could full flash an E39 tune in to an E39A (and vice versa), I found out what happens when you do that (E39 doorstops anyone?). GM do have a new part number for the E39A ECM with a new label too clearly stating 'E39A', plus the scary part, the connector pinouts are different, so don't ever get them mixed up, again, another doorstop results (as Ross notices he's BRAND NEW E39A is drawing 5 Amps, it didn't live more than 10 seconds!) :redface: .
Now all I need is Holden to offer the new 2.0L turbo like the ATS has in 'something' and I'll have my next car on order, unless the GenV hits the streets first.

[Boost]

FYI, anyone who is interested, the E39A ECM read and flash is support in the next release candidate due any day now. This will get you sorted for any 2013+ SIDI application, though 2013 is a transition year, so some 2013 models will still use the older E39 and others the new E39A such as the 2013 XTS, ATS and Malibu. VTuner was brave enough to be the first test mule for the E39A beta update on he's ATS with good results too.
We had to spend a bit of time on this one, we needed to make sure there was no possible way someone could full flash an E39 tune in to an E39A (and vice versa), I found out what happens when you do that (E39 doorstops anyone?). GM do have a new part number for the E39A ECM with a new label too clearly stating 'E39A', plus the scary part, the connector pinouts are different, so don't ever get them mixed up, again, another doorstop results (as Ross notices he's BRAND NEW E39A is drawing 5 Amps, it didn't live more than 10 seconds!) :redface: .
Now all I need is Holden to offer the new 2.0L turbo like the ATS has in 'something' and I'll have my next car on order, unless the GenV hits the streets first.

This is really great news, I am a huge fan of those cars as well as the Verano T. Thank you work all your work and sacrifice, lol, one heck of a doorstop.

[Boost]

Aaand, fast forward to mid-2013!

Reading this great thread made me smile. I don't know very much, but sometimes I almost predict my own future...

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?22457-Torque-South-s-black-2013-BUICK-TURBO-project

For the record, just as Brian reported the acceleration and quality of these cars is absolutely amazing for the price.

:cheers:

[VTuner]

1/4 mile data for the Cadillac ATS4 2.0T Automatic from last night at Napierville Dragway (Canada):http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/18/uvevany2.jpg
13.4 sec @ 102 mph - all stock hardware except our custom tuning and methanol/water injection.
Tuned on 93 octane pump gas (no meth/h20) ran 13.9 @ 97.4 mph
Stock tune ran 14.6 @ 93.9 mph

Cheers,
Brian

[GMPX]

Wow, dropping from 14.6 to 13.4 with stock hardware still, very nice Brian, well done.

[joecar]

You blew the left lane away :cheers:

[Boost]

Great job!!! LOL, I ran a 14.6 in my automatic Verano stock...

(correction, more like 14.75 I guess? but I am pretty sure the ATS would blow my doors off ;) )

[Boost]

1/4 mile data for the Cadillac ATS4 2.0T Automatic from last night at Napierville Dragway (Canada):http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/18/uvevany2.jpg
13.4 sec @ 102 mph - all stock hardware except our custom tuning and methanol/water injection.
Tuned on 93 octane pump gas (no meth/h20) ran 13.9 @ 97.4 mph
Stock tune ran 14.6 @ 93.9 mph

Cheers,
Brian

Which type or brand of methanol / water injection do you recommend, and do you sell the kits yourself? From your results it seems like it made a huge difference. Did you run the identical tune and just spray it?

[VTuner]

http://www.snowperformance.net/cadillac-ats-20t-results-50hp&229

[Boost]

Thank you! Is the 50 hp the result of injection PLUS tune, or can be gained over the stock tune or any modded tune (I think the first one). Also, at your convenience could you PM me about the smartest way to buy this (perhaps though you)? That is a lot of $$$ for a washer fluid reservoir...

[VTuner]

Thank you! Is the 50 hp the result of injection PLUS tune, or can be gained over the stock tune or any modded tune (I think the first one). Also, at your convenience could you PM me about the smartest way to buy this (perhaps though you)? That is a lot of $$$ for a washer fluid reservoir...

The results are from injection plus tuning - you can see overlays of the stock, tuned, and tuned with meth/water on my user forum here:
http://www.vtunerperformance.com/?page_id=33&mingleforumaction=viewforum&f=3.0

The Snow Performance Stage 2 GM MAF Boost cooler is the system I use. I think it is a great deal for $455 for what you get in the system and Snow Performance is a great company to work with. As with anything, the devil is in the details and Snow Performance has the best system on the market in my opinion, which is why I work with them (and the same reason I work with EFILive!). Since you are in Florida and have easy access to E85 you might be interested in E85 tuning instead since the necessary hardware is only ~ $100. See the discussion on flex fuel tuning my ATS on my forum also.

Cheers,
Brian

[Boost]

Brian, thanks for the excellent info as always.

Suprisingly I do not have easy access to E85. I live right smack in the middle of Miami, and there are only about 2 places to get ethanol, none close to me.

My goal with this car is to be a true daily driver that can be filled with 93 octane top tier fuel whenever and wherever needed. Until E85 becomes more readily available that is...

Slightly different topic - what's your take on using "Boost Juice" vs. "windshield washer fluid". Technically, can optimal results be obtained if mixed properly?

[VTuner]

Brian, thanks for the excellent info as always.

Suprisingly I do not have easy access to E85. I live right smack in the middle of Miami, and there are only about 2 places to get ethanol, none close to me.

My goal with this car is to be a true daily driver that can be filled with 93 octane top tier fuel whenever and wherever needed. Until E85 becomes more readily available that is...

Slightly different topic - what's your take on using "Boost Juice" vs. "windshield washer fluid". Technically, can optimal results be obtained if mixed properly?

I run "Turbo Power" windshield washer fluid - 50/50 methanol water for $2.67/gallon at home depot in Canada (I cross the border just to buy it - usually 6 cases at a time).

Running on 46% Ethanol and spraying methanol/water tonight it ran 13.1 seconds @ 103.5 mph in the 1/4. 0-120 mph in 18.9 seconds, 0-60 mph in 4.8 seconds.
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[Sweet35th]

Nice 60'

[Highlander]

Does it use factory widebands?

[GMPX]

I don't think any of GM's cars use WBO2's

[Highlander]

LNF uses wideband.... and does closed loop WOT.

I was hoping they would come out with it with this generation... But I guess that will separate the tooners from the calibrators.

[hog]

LNF uses wideband.... and does closed loop WOT.

I was hoping they would come out with it with this generation... But I guess that will separate the tooners from the calibrators.
Whats the difference?

peae
Hog

[Highlander]

the difference is that I can spray meth with a lot less worries from the customer knowing what he or she is doing... the difference is that the changes in weather will not affect its AFR. specially on SD cars. There are so many advantages to this that is ridiculous not to have it done.

But then again, the fact that its just easier to tune, doesn't mean that it can't be tuned. But SD cars should be "rechecked" with every season change. or at least here where humidity changes a lot. Maybe with the addition of humidity sensors things will change.... aside to that, i will not have to jack up the car to stick the wideband in front everytime one comes to tune. LOL

[joecar]

Closed loop wideband trimming throughout the operating range (resulting measured fueling will always match commanded).

the difference between a good tune and a bad tune will still be if the airmass model is correct (i.e. the CL WB trim will be close to zero if airmass is correct, and will otherwise deviate from zero).

[Highlander]

You can still achieve this and airmass model NOT be correct... due to bad injector data and similar situations.

[GMPX]

LNF uses wideband.... and does closed loop WOT.
Yeah, but you are talking a Bosch ECM here right?

[hog]

the difference is that I can spray meth with a lot less worries from the customer knowing what he or she is doing... the difference is that the changes in weather will not affect its AFR. specially on SD cars. There are so many advantages to this that is ridiculous not to have it done.

But then again, the fact that its just easier to tune, doesn't mean that it can't be tuned. But SD cars should be "rechecked" with every season change. or at least here where humidity changes a lot. Maybe with the addition of humidity sensors things will change.... aside to that, i will not have to jack up the car to stick the wideband in front everytime one comes to tune. LOL
I apologize, but I was wondering what the difference between a tuner and a calibrator was? Sorry.

peace
Hog

[VTuner]

Ran a 12.9 sec 1/4 mile at 107.6 mph with the ATS4 2.0T automatic today after installing a turbo back exhaust (3" catless dp feeding into dual 2.5" exhaust), 64 mm compressor wheel upgrade and HL turbine wheel upgrade. Ran this one on 93 octane + meth/water but will switch over to E85 +meth/water after some fine tuning on the dyno next week. No problems raising the bar to over 400hp on the 2.0T E39A with EFILive!

15627

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0LuP-f9nI4

Cheers,
Brian

[VTuner]

Went back to Napierville Dragway today with a little E85 in the tank (running 50% ethanol) - Some 15629AWD tire spin for ~ 60 ft out out of the box on the stock tires but still managed a nice improvement at 12.766 seconds at 108.65 MPH

[joecar]

Nice ET/TS :cheers:

what happened to the other lane...?

[VTuner]

Nice ET/TS :cheers:

what happened to the other lane...?

I think it was just closed for that run - testing and tuning trials, so not always lined up with another car. The most interesting thing I ran against was a Nissan 350Z fitted with a Stillen supercharger and semi-slicks that was supposedly 540hp (doubtful) - It was a RWD 6-speed manual against my AWD slushbox - he trapped 7 mph higher but was several cars lengths behind me each time (running around 13.2) :hihi:

Cheers,
Brian

[joecar]

lol, the 350Z had 540 "bench" horsepower... running slower than 10's would really hurt his dignity.

[Boost]

Congrats Brian!!! Awesome results.