Diesel tuning restrictions for USA customers

[GMPX]

As many of you may have heard or read about in the last few days, our next software update will contain restrictions to the available calibrations for diesel engines. More specifically for the LMM and 6.7L Cummins that have a DPF system fitted.
USA based customers will no longer have access to alter the calibrations affecting the operation and diagnostics of these emissions controlling components. For EFILive users outside of the USA this restriction will not apply and you should notice no change in what you can and can't tune. There will not be separate USA and International versions of the software, there will still only be one version for downloading.

We would like to make this thread the official place to ask questions regarding these changes, however, if the questions are nothing more than you venting your dissatisfaction about this then the post will be removed.

Please read THIS (http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=167&Itemid=158) as a starting point.

Based on the ongoing discussions in this thread, below is a few key items, an FAQ of sorts that you might miss reading through the various pages.



Your existing V2's, Autocals etc will continue to work fine with the current public releases, V7.5.7 Build 211 & V8.2.1 Build 203.
If you update the firmware in the V2/AC to that in the next release it might not work correctly with older software, it's always been this way with each new release anyway.
For any existing tune files you have, the tuning changes will remain untouched, all new tune files created with the next update will not have access to the DPF related functions for USA customers.
It's still your choice if you update or not, we aren't forcing you, we aren't sneaking the restrictions in.
There will only be one version of the EFILive software, there is no secret 'international' version USA users can install.
The restrictions have nothing to do with your registration details on the forum or with your V2 warranty cards.
Sending EFILive staff Emails and PM's asking how to get around this will simply be ignored, no response whatsoever.



NOVEMBER 2013 Update:
Due to time constraints, the November 7th, 2013 software release will be the final public software release for Customers in 2013. EFILive expects additional pre-release software for LML mapping and E20 Non USA Diesel Cruze tuning support to be released before the end of the 2013.

Specifically, EFILive will not be implementing any software restrictions in 2013. Customers and Tuners should familiarize themselves with their local laws and restrictions as per http://www.efilive.com/legal. EFILive shall provide further customer updates as they become available in 2014.

Kind regards

The EFILive Team

[catman3126]

HMM so if theres only one download how will it be different for what region we live in?

[catman3126]

I would guess it will be because of where each individual has registered their V2's and there will be programming in the update that will recognize the loacation of registration and makes its so the deletetion ability will not be in the update? also so if we don't update to the new software will we be able to still buy licences? thanks for the information.

[rennat_2006]

I would guess it will be because of where each individual has registered their V2's and there will be programming in the update that will recognize the loacation of registration and makes its so the deletetion ability will not be in the update? also so if we don't update to the new software will we be able to still buy licences? thanks for the information.
x2 on these questions.

I know this is the diesel section but also curious about the gassers since im using mine for LS Swaps into muscle cars if they will be any changes with them?

[cumminsDK]

How will we continue to support customers whose trucks are already deleted and no longer own a Dpf?

[catman3126]

yeah I use mine for that too. I hope it doesnt have much change on that

[z79outlaw]

Are we going to lose more features and support in the future?

[Powder_Keg]

Just got my v2 and now it became a paper weight I guess. This EPA crap is BS

[DURAtotheMAX]

If we are content with what we already have as far as tables/features/etc....can we just keep the current version to retain EGR/DPF modification ability? (build 211)

Or is there going to be some block in there so all USA people will *have* to update and be forced to give up EGR/DPF parameters?

[ScarabEpic22]

Interesting to see this happen, was wondering if it was coming down the line. :(

[THEFERMANATOR]

How will this apply to vehicles such as designated race trucks that are not required to have a DPF and are not registered in any way for road useage? What about for retrofits of putting a newer diesel into an older body style that is emissions exempt, or the DPF is not required for the older truck to meet it's emssions output(like my SUBURBAN which meets all emssions criteria for 95 without any of this equipment)? Just curious if this will affect all USA customers even the ones who can LEGALLY remove the emissions equipment for there intended purposes.

[catman3126]

what if a person who has efi live in the USA has had enough of this epa stuff and decides to move to a country that does not have restrictions like the USA can this person get their efi live registers in a different country to be able to re-enable the deletion section?

[GMPX]

HMM so if theres only one download how will it be different for what region we live in?

I would guess it will be because of where each individual has registered their V2's and there will be programming in the update that will recognize the loacation of registration and makes its so the deletetion ability will not be in the update? also so if we don't update to the new software will we be able to still buy licences? thanks for the information.
Obviously we aren't about to explain how we have region specific restrictions in place, but it has nothing to do with your V2's, so ordering a new V2 from outside of the USA and registering it with EFILive from Paris, France won't magically open things up for you if you are still tuning in the USA. We also didn't want to be generating individual install packages based on peoples location, that would be ridiculous, not only that, non USA versions would be up on torrent sites the moment they were released.


I know this is the diesel section but also curious about the gassers since im using mine for LS Swaps into muscle cars if they will be any changes with them?
Currently there is no plans to restrict any functions from the LS side of things. There is a very different mindset with the gas side of tuning though, the people who are going to the trouble of fitting an LS motor in to an old car probably do so because they are wanting to make good clean power, maybe even run it on E85, just like a 2010 Silverado gasser would. The legalities of doing this probably varies state by state in the US, so you probably need to investigate that yourself.


How will we continue to support customers whose trucks are already deleted and no longer own a Dpf?
The changes will not affect existing tunes, we can't wind back or undo what has already been done to a file prior to this new update.


Are we going to lose more features and support in the future?
Unfortunately we are not in a position to answer that with any certainty, we aren't the rule makers on this one, we've decided to try to play ball like everyone else has.

[DURAtotheMAX]

Obviously we aren't about to explain how we have region specific restrictions in place, but it has nothing to do with your V2's, so ordering a new V2 from outside of the USA and registering it with EFILive from Paris, France won't magically open things up for you if you are still tuning in the USA. We also didn't want to be generating individual install packages based on peoples location, that would be ridiculous, not only that, non USA versions would be up on torrent sites the moment they were released.

alright good, so...reading between the lines...if we just decide to keep Tuning tool build 211 "forever", but say we upgrade the boot block or firmware in our V2 at some point, we wont be screwing ourselves/shooting ourselves in the foot, if you understand what I mean Ross?

Ben

[cumminsDK]

Thanks for the fast reply, I should have been more specific will my deleted 6.7 customers continue to have to deal with dinging?

[catman3126]

Thankyou for some answers and everyone please try to keep this a clean thread and please don't bash or question EFI Lives decisions, just because we won't be able to do deletions on diesel doesn't mean this thi sis a useful tool for many other avenues. I for one believe that I will focus more on my first love and that would be performance gasoline engines. i have done an LS swap into my CJ7 and have enjoyed it more then the diesel side of things due to the cost of the diesel side of things and will continue to use this great product to fulfill my need for horsepower lol. I can go just as fast if not faster with a gas engine and for alot cheaper.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Currently there is no plans to restrict any functions from the LS side of things. There is a very different mindset with the gas side of tuning though, the people who are going to the trouble of fitting an LS motor in to an old car probably do so because they are wanting to make good clean power, maybe even run it on E85, just like a 2010 Silverado gasser would. The legalities of doing this probably varies state by state in the US, so you probably need to investigate that yourself.

And what about people like myself that retrofit in a newer diesel into an older truck where the newer diesel even without the emissions equipment is still cleaner? I'm not trying to argue here, but the reasoning is splitting hairs to me. I still don't see why you have changed your stance on this matter all of a sudden from the last time when HPTUNERS removed the function? The burden should be on the end user, which is why I thought the disclaimer was there before you could do a flash.

[Gregs]

Will this include EGR or is only going to effect the DPF system?

[Blksmokelb7]

How will this apply to vehicles such as designated race trucks that are not required to have a DPF and are not registered in any way for road useage? What about for retrofits of putting a newer diesel into an older body style that is emissions exempt, or the DPF is not required for the older truck to meet it's emssions output(like my SUBURBAN which meets all emssions criteria for 95 without any of this equipment)? Just curious if this will affect all USA customers even the ones who can LEGALLY remove the emissions equipment for there intended purposes.


And what about people like myself that retrofit in a newer diesel into an older truck where the newer diesel even without the emissions equipment is still cleaner? I'm not trying to argue here, but the reasoning is splitting hairs to me. I still don't see why you have changed your stance on this matter all of a sudden from the last time when HPTUNERS removed the function? The burden should be on the end user, which is why I thought the disclaimer was there before you could do a flash.

Yes what about this????

[GMPX]

If we are content with what we already have as far as tables/features/etc....can we just keep the current version to retain EGR/DPF modification ability? (build 211)
Absolutely, this is not a forced or surprise attack update, if you are happy tuning with what you have now then avoid future updates. However, there is of course CSP5 coming soon, so you would miss out on that.


Or is there going to be some block in there so all USA people will *have* to update and be forced to give up EGR/DPF parameters?
No updates will be enforced, no features will be crippled on older versions, but with firmware and software being interlinked you can't go back once you've updated.


How will this apply to vehicles such as designated race trucks that are not required to have a DPF and are not registered in any way for road useage? What about for retrofits of putting a newer diesel into an older body style that is emissions exempt, or the DPF is not required for the older truck to meet it's emssions output(like my SUBURBAN which meets all emssions criteria for 95 without any of this equipment)? Just curious if this will affect all USA customers even the ones who can LEGALLY remove the emissions equipment for there intended purposes.
And this is where we hit a brick wall I'm sorry to say because we have no solution for genuine cases like this. I'm just throwing this out there as food for thought as a potential solution long term.
Here in Australia there is companies that convert vehicles from Left Hand Drive to Right Hand Drive. Our laws state that if a car is less than 25 years old and you want to drive it on the road then it must be converted to RHD. These conversion companies have to go through an engineering approval process, so once they've done a car that meets the authorities standards they are free to convert as many cars as they need without further approval.
Perhaps in the case of genuine race trucks, engine swap companies etc there might need to be a system in place where you can apply to the authorities for exemptions?


what if a person who has efi live in the USA has had enough of this epa stuff and decides to move to a country that does not have restrictions like the USA can this person get their efi live registers in a different country to be able to re-enable the deletion section?
Sort of, yes, no, maybe. Again, I'm not really going to divulge on how this works.

[catman3126]

Has the EPA conntated EFI Live at all? and since I have two V2's on black with gm and cummins tuning options and one blue with just the cummins tuning option will i be able to have them both on the same laptop and be able to update the blue one so I can have the CSP ability? or will I need to buy another laptop? not a problem if I have to just wondering how that will work.

[GMPX]

alright good, so...reading between the lines...if we just decide to keep Tuning tool build 211 "forever", but say we upgrade the boot block or firmware in our V2 at some point, we wont be screwing ourselves/shooting ourselves in the foot, if you understand what I mean Ross?
If you upgrade the bootblock and firmware in the V2 to a version used in the upcoming software releases then the V2 may not work correctly should you stick build 211 back on your PC.


Thanks for the fast reply, I should have been more specific will my deleted 6.7 customers continue to have to deal with dinging?
I am continuing to work on a fix for the chime, as the chime is annoying for several other non emissions related warnings I don't think there is an emissions related problem with disabling it.


I still don't see why you have changed your stance on this matter all of a sudden from the last time when HPTUNERS removed the function?
At least we are telling everyone first :hihi:


The burden should be on the end user, which is why I thought the disclaimer was there before you could do a flash.
This absolutely falls in to the same category as gun control, Smith & Wesson are not responsible for how their product is used by each person who buys a gun. Just like us, or even someone selling EFILive isn't the person that may remove the DPF and creates a tune to allow the truck to still run. However, we have a situation where YouTube is full of smoking late model Diesels on the highway filling some poor grandma's Prius with soot. Now if Grandma was at the local drag strip that is a different story, it 'could' be an unregistered race truck doing this, but unfortunately nearly every video out there is clearly not a race truck.
I'm not trying to play the moral police here, but you know 'whoever' came up with the concept to burn more Diesel to make them cleaner needed to have a few more drinks and think that one over, it sounds ludicrous, but that is the rule that the OEM's must play by, that is the rules the US Govt currently enforces. Us sticking it to the man by allowing it to be abused is not going to fix the actual problem is it? And this is perhaps why there is probably no DPF delete tuners left on the market. We were probably the last because we wanted to take the time to think this out on a global scale so our customers in Dubai, Australia, Sweden, and so on weren't affected.
By the way, the 'off road' disclaimer on products as I understand it is now worthless.

[jmaz2689]

When should we expect to see this update?

[GMPX]

We are doing internal beta testing at the moment, however, as this update is going to include the CSP5 enhancement for the 5.9L Cummins we are delaying it a little bit until there is a variety of switching solutions available.
There was no plans to do a specific update just for the restricted calibrations, it will just be included with our next major release, best guess, early to mid January for the public update.

[jmaz2689]

Thanks, that should be plenty of time for everyone to bury a copy of the software in the backyard for future use.

Also, Say in a year my V2 gets broken or misplaced and I have to buy a new one or have it fixed by you guys.

Will the new one be on the bootblock/firmware version that is incompatible with Emissions related deletes?

[GMPX]

When we build product they are shipped with the current public release, so once this goes public all new hardware and software will be the new versions, we won't be shipping old software.

[catman3126]

I like youtube but lets ban it! Like I have always said "If you want to get away with something don't tell anyone" LOL JK

[catman3126]

It would be awesome if you would release the CSP update before the deletion disabled update? would that be possible?

[GMPX]

It would be awesome if you would release the CSP update before the deletion disabled update? would that be possible?
Nope, the cal restrictions are done, all CSP5 OS's are not.

[catman3126]

Thats fine that why I bought a "blue V2 cummins tuner optioned" that way I can update it and tune all cummins with CSP when it comes out which I would love to be a beta tester on but I'm sure that won't happen.

will we still be able to buy a stream licence for a non updated 211 build V2? for say an LMM/LBZ?

[GMPX]

will we still be able to buy a stream licence for a non updated 211 build V2? for say an LMM/LBZ?
Yes absolutely, nothing changes there, all licenses and streams are still valid regardless if they were purchased 4 years ago or next year.
I'll try to summarise in point form a few key things in the original post.

[catman3126]

thankyou sounds like you are trying to do right by us and i thankyou for that.

[MadMaxx61]

Heres one for you I live in Canada.

Say I buy tunes from a tuner that is in the USA. If I open the tune (not locked) on my computer can I make the changes for the DPF/EGR to the tune and save it?

[GMPX]

Yes, because you are in Canada, until the US EPA is able to enforce their laws on you guys then you will have no restrictions (maybe they already can? I don't know).
A tune file created in the USA is not 'infected' with the restrictions, the tune file is the same on any computer no matter where it's located. Unfortunately this does mean that USA tuners selling mail order tunes outside of the USA will need to give the end user (out of country) access to the tune if they plan on messing with any DPF related items.

[MadMaxx61]

Lol thank you. I was not sure if it would have been looked into a tune once it was made in the USA.

Thanks.

[SwedeBurb]

If a person in the US sends me a tune file, I can edit whatever I want and then send it back to him for flashing. All my updates will get flashed in since they are stored in the file... he just can't make any further changes to the region locked parameters without my help. Correct?

[GMPX]

Ok, so that falls in to the same category of bypassing region protected DVD's.
Say you want to buy the 'Larry The Cable Guy - Git-R-Done' DVD from Amazon USA, it's a Region 1 DVD, but you live in Region 2 so it won't play. So you ask your friend in the USA to make a copy of it and change it to Region 2 and then send it over. Obviously Amazon and whoever owns the distribution rights to that DVD have no control over that. What I am trying to say is that we have implemented a system that we feel is going to stop DPF systems being bypassed in the ECM for USA based customers, if people try to figure out a method around our restriction then we certainly aren't going to be involved in guiding them because at that point they are guilty of software hacking.

[schwoch1]

I was also waiting for this to come, it was just a matter of time. I also hate to say, just like the region specific coding on DVD's, I give it about a month before the region coding is figured out on EFI Live and this will be a moot point......
Also, I am sure that the moderaters will be busy locking/deleting threads pertaining to this just like they are on other forums. If you need someone to blame, blame the idiot smoking out intersections and four lanes of traffic in your city's downtown!
Just my $.02, please don't ask for change!

Mike

[WyoFreeride]

Will this affect your development for new ECMs (ie CM2200) that aren't supported yet? Will the emissions stuff be addressed on those new ECMs for areas outside the US still?

[DURAtotheMAX]

Thanks, that should be plenty of time for everyone to bury a copy of the software in the backyard for future use.

Also, Say in a year my V2 gets broken or misplaced and I have to buy a new one or have it fixed by you guys.

Will the new one be on the bootblock/firmware version that is incompatible with Emissions related deletes?

This is what horrifies me....

I have duramax stream licenses, cummins tuning license, etc... So basically my V2 is "worth" a lot more than most of the V2's out there....so yes I do take extra special care of it and try not to let it out of my sight.

BUT!!!! God forbid, the thing breaks or something and I have to have it fixed (and then I send it to be fixed, and then you guys put the latest firmware/boot block on it).....would it be possible to downgrade the firmware/boot block on the V2 to the old version that still works with Build 211 tuning tool???

thats what scares me....I can deal with running Build 211 forever (I only tune very few cummins's, so not getting access to CSP5 isnt the end of the world for me), what if the above scenario happens (V2 breaks or something) and Im "forced" into updating firmware/boot block????

Ben

[02CCSB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF62J3vxPdQ&feature=youtu.be&t=33s

[joecar]

I was also waiting for this to come, it was just a matter of time. I also hate to say, just like the region specific coding on DVD's, I give it about a month before the region coding is figured out on EFI Live and this will be a moot point......
Also, I am sure that the moderaters will be busy locking/deleting threads pertaining to this just like they are on other forums. If you need someone to blame, blame the idiot smoking out intersections and four lanes of traffic in your city's downtown!
Just my $.02, please don't ask for change!

Mike+1

For example, look at the vid in post #3 here (which Ross linked as a example): EDIT: Link removed, nobody would see it, it's in the beta area.

[jay p]

For any existing tune files you have, the tuning changes will remain untouched, all new tune files created with the next update will not have access to the DPF related functions for USA customers.
[/LIST]

If I'm reading this correctly, I will be able to flash old tunes with EGR/DPF changes still there but not have the ability to edit them after updating to new versions?

[tokymon]

glad to here that youre not lumping us canadians in with the epa nazi's in the usa

[Gregs]

+1

For example, look at the vid in post #3 here (which Ross linked as a example): Well-that-little-announcement-really-sucks (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?21146-Well-that-little-announcement-really-sucks)

The link says I don't have permissions to access....

I think my last post got missed accidentally, but is this change only going to effect the DPF system or will EGR also get pulled?

[minytrker]

This was going to happen with time no matter what IMO. I respect EFI's postion and there solution to keep the EPA off there backs. If EFI has to spends weeks if not months and tens of thousands of dollars defending there self in court nobody still won. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles and move on. If you want to blame anyone blame our current government in the US and not EFI.

[someguy]

HMM so if theres only one download how will it be different for what region we live in?

My *guess* is registered VIN.

http://www.analogx.com/cgi-bin/cgivin.exe?Mode=Decode&VIN=SCCFE33C9VHF65358&Submit=Decode

Someone have a VIN for a non US truck ?

Or it will be via the IP address that the computer doing the tuning is connected to when a new VIN license is issued.

Maybe I should have kept that quiet...

[schwoch1]

I have my own opinion on what the software will look for to determine if you are in the states or not, and I am going to assume it is right on your computer. I will guess also that it will not be IP or VIN based either, but again, I could be totally wrong!
Just my opinion again!!

Mike

[tokymon]

i hope it not vin based a the trucks we get in canada are made in us and mexico

[schwoch1]

i hope it not vin based a the trucks we get in canada are made in us and mexico

I am not sure, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that it is not VIN based, almost 100% sure of that!

Mike

[LinearX]

i hope it not vin based a the trucks we get in canada are made in us and mexico

I would think the VIN corresponds to the country it was sold in and not the country of manufacture. For example, most 4th gen F-bodies were made in Canada but those that came to the US still has US VINs on them.

Just a guess.

[Dark Halo]

I just hate the we have to tune in secret and now the company can no longer help with issues that have come up with the removal of the epa crap. I understand why it has to be this way but I would love to see the american companies and people put a leash on the epa and their stupid Obama agenda. As they say it is what its is and I will be who I am regardless of what the future holds. Maybe the People who wanted four more year will see their flaws and not let it happen again.

[cindy@efilive]

I just hate the we have to tune in secret and now the company can no longer help with issues that have come up with the removal of the epa crap. I understand why it has to be this way but I would love to see the american companies and people put a leash on the epa and their stupid Obama agenda. As they say it is what its is and I will be who I am regardless of what the future holds. Maybe the People who wanted four more year will see their flaws and not let it happen again.

I don't want a discussion in politics, but the EPA has been around since the 70's. If you want to see some of the impacts they have had in the gasser industry google Casper Electronics.

Cheers
Cindy

[Dark Halo]

I am fully aware, I just think its getting out of hand

[N0DIH]

Well said.


This was going to happen with time no matter what IMO. I respect EFI's postion and there solution to keep the EPA off there backs. If EFI has to spends weeks if not months and tens of thousands of dollars defending there self in court nobody still won. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles and move on. If you want to blame anyone blame our current government in the US and not EFI.

[cindy@efilive]

Will this affect your development for new ECMs (ie CM2200) that aren't supported yet? Will the emissions stuff be addressed on those new ECMs for areas outside the US still?

At this point our development priority hasn't changed, but we will do a full review of planned support and order of support early in the new year.


This is what horrifies me....

I have duramax stream licenses, cummins tuning license, etc... So basically my V2 is "worth" a lot more than most of the V2's out there....so yes I do take extra special care of it and try not to let it out of my sight.

BUT!!!! God forbid, the thing breaks or something and I have to have it fixed (and then I send it to be fixed, and then you guys put the latest firmware/boot block on it).....would it be possible to downgrade the firmware/boot block on the V2 to the old version that still works with Build 211 tuning tool???

thats what scares me....I can deal with running Build 211 forever (I only tune very few cummins's, so not getting access to CSP5 isnt the end of the world for me), what if the above scenario happens (V2 breaks or something) and Im "forced" into updating firmware/boot block????

Ben

If your V2 needs to be fixed or replaced, you won't be 'forced' to do anything. If you chose to have it repaired through an authorized agent or replaced using the license recovery scheme your unit will be returned to you with current bootblock and firmware. Bootblock/firmware cannot be downgraded.

Cheers
Cindy

[DURAtotheMAX]

If your V2 needs to be fixed or replaced, you won't be 'forced' to do anything. If you chose to have it repaired through an authorized agent or replaced using the license recovery scheme your unit will be returned to you with current bootblock and firmware. Bootblock/firmware cannot be downgraded.

Cheers
Cindy

Alright so basically if I need to have my V2 repaired (or replaced due to loss/theft) down the road after the "non-DPF" updates come out...Ill be out of luck, because when I get my repaired V2 back it will have the newest "non-DPF" firmware in it?

Sorry If im misunderstanding you Cindy, I just want to make sure im following you correctly.

thanks
Ben

[cindy@efilive]

Alright so basically if I need to have my V2 repaired (or replaced due to loss/theft) down the road after the "non-DPF" updates come out...Ill be out of luck, because when I get my repaired V2 back it will have the newest "non-DPF" firmware in it?

Sorry If im misunderstanding you Cindy, I just want to make sure im following you correctly.

thanks
Ben

You understand correctly, we won't install old firmware/bootblocks, and we won't change our software structure to allow those to be downgraded.

Cheers
Cindy

[jmaz2689]

Will Unit pricing go down or up because of reduced functionality?

My guess would be no, but figured it was worth a shot lol.

[5.9cummins06]

So what happens if someone from the US buys a Delete tune from a Canadian tuner?

[minytrker]

Will Unit pricing go down or up because of reduced functionality?

My guess would be no, but figured it was worth a shot lol.

Its not EFI Live causing the trouble, its the US government. If you move outside of the US it wouldn't be an issue.

[CBlack]

How precisely will this effect the "dinger" fix that is forthcoming?

Will it be a simple tune file fix or will an upgraded V2 be in order?

[cindy@efilive]

How precisely will this effect the "dinger" fix that is forthcoming?

Will it be a simple tune file fix or will an upgraded V2 be in order?

There will be no additional software releases for parameters prior to the release of the country of residence restrictions. ie. You won't have access to the chime fix, or CSP functionality (when it's released) if you don't upgrade.

It will be a simple tune fix but you will need to update. There is no hardware changes, only software changes.

Cheers
Cindy

[davematthews]

Come on guy's quit asking questions they can't answer. This isn't something they like. Its bound to hurt business in one form or fashion. However, the world isn't going to end. The sky is still there and isn't going to fall.

Read between the lines and you'll have your answer to everything you desire. Its not that complicated.

I would like to thank EFI for giving us what we have. And hope that in the future we will still be a valuable region to continue to support and improve on...:angel_innocent:

[schwoch1]

Come on guy's quit asking questions they can't answer. This isn't something they like. Its bound to hurt business in one form or fashion. However, the world isn't going to end. The sky is still there and isn't going to fall.

Read between the lines and you'll have your answer to everything you desire. Its not that complicated.

I would like to thank EFI for giving us what we have. And hope that in the future we will still be a valuable region to continue to support and improve on...:angel_innocent:

I agree 100%. I am guessing anyone with half a brain will be able to figure out how to be out of the country while tuning :) Luckily, I am only a 7 hour drive from Canada, so I guess I will have to use that option every time I need to help out that person with their 'race truck'.... :)

But seriously, now a days, it only takes people a matter of time to figure out how to bypass anything, it is just going to be one of them deals where no one will talk about it in public. All the deletes are still going to happen in the US, but when the EPA looks at the program the ability will be gone.
Again, just my opinion!

Mike

[joecar]

I would think the VIN corresponds to the country it was sold in and not the country of manufacture. For example, most 4th gen F-bodies were made in Canada but those that came to the US still has US VINs on them.

Just a guess.4th gen F-body VIN's start with "2" which means Canada... so my guess is it can't be VIN based;

but regardless, we should feel privileged that the EPA still lets us drive vehicles (instead of horses or goats).

[someguy]

I like how EFI Live has handled this and I applaud them for their approach.

[Duramax 6.6L]

I like how EFI Live has handled this and I applaud them for their approach.

X2

Read between the lines

[Duramax 6.6L]

I agree 100%. I am guessing anyone with half a brain will be able to figure out how to be out of the country while tuning :) Luckily, I am only a 7 hour drive from Canada, so I guess I will have to use that option every time I need to help out that person with their 'race truck'.... :)

But seriously, now a days, it only takes people a matter of time to figure out how to bypass anything, it is just going to be one of them deals where no one will talk about it in public. All the deletes are still going to happen in the US, but when the EPA looks at the program the ability will be gone.
Again, just my opinion!

Mike
I agree 100 %

[WyoFreeride]

I like how EFI Live has handled this and I applaud them for their approach.

x3

I'd hate to lose EFI Live all together if the EPA decided to ban import of the V2, hosing up both the diesel and gas tuning for everyone. Its a great tool still, even without the DPF stuff (which is why I personally bought a V2 to begin with, but never got to use those functions). At least their chosen method wont break any existing tunes, and development can continue forward for everyone else besides us poor suckers living in the US.

[TDFDiesel]

You guys should quit asking questions about how to beat the system, they clearly can't answer them and you are just bringing light to potential loop holes that will have to be investigated outside of EFI Live for RACE applications only.

[TDFDiesel]

How will this apply to vehicles such as designated race trucks that are not required to have a DPF and are not registered in any way for road useage? What about for retrofits of putting a newer diesel into an older body style that is emissions exempt, or the DPF is not required for the older truck to meet it's emssions output(like my SUBURBAN which meets all emssions criteria for 95 without any of this equipment)? Just curious if this will affect all USA customers even the ones who can LEGALLY remove the emissions equipment for there intended purposes.

As I understand the law, when upgraded an engine you must install the emissions equipment that the engine was certified with. Therefore if you install an LMM into your Suburban you legally are supposed to install a DPF on your Suburban irrelevant of the chassis age.

[LinearX]

4th gen F-body VIN's start with "2" which means Canada... so my guess is it can't be VIN based;

but regardless, we should feel privileged that the EPA still lets us drive vehicles (instead of horses or goats).

Well, that shows what I know. :D

[DAVe3283]

I am glad for the transparency into this process, as well as the warning time we got. I am sad that this has to happen, but the US EPA is to blame, not EFI. They are just trying to protect themselves and their product, since the EPA has decided that "off road only" warnings and waivers don't cut it anymore, and they will go after the tool provider, not the too "abuser".

It seems EFI has taken the most reasonable action to this problem that they could, IMO.


As I understand the law, when upgraded an engine you must install the emissions equipment that the engine was certified with. Therefore if you install an LMM into your Suburban you legally are supposed to install a DPF on your Suburban irrelevant of the chassis age.
I believe this depends on your state.

[THEFERMANATOR]

As I understand the law, when upgraded an engine you must install the emissions equipment that the engine was certified with. Therefore if you install an LMM into your Suburban you legally are supposed to install a DPF on your Suburban irrelevant of the chassis age.


I believe this depends on your state.

And sometimes the age and useage of a vehicle. Use the truck that they were building on GEARZ with a DURAMAX, I highly doubt anywhere would require it go through emissions quite simply due to it's age. Yes some states require you to use the emissions equipment that your donor engine came with, and the engine must be newer than the engine it was replacing. That was one of the reasons I chose an LB7 as it had no CAT which meant LEGALLY I could remove my cat converter from my BURB that it came with stock. there is alot of grey area in engine swaps which was one of the nice things about EFILIVE that gave us great flexibility to work within the rules. As they say, all good things must come to an end, and this one is no different. MAYBE, just MAYBE we can open some peoples eyes to the fact that going out and rolling coal isn't cool anymore and is simply drawing attention to a matter that shouldn't be.

[Duramax 6.6L]

And sometimes the age and useage of a vehicle. Use the truck that they were building on GEARZ with a DURAMAX, I highly doubt anywhere would require it go through emissions quite simply due to it's age. Yes some states require you to use the emissions equipment that your donor engine came with, and the engine must be newer than the engine it was replacing. That was one of the reasons I chose an LB7 as it had no CAT which meant LEGALLY I could remove my cat converter from my BURB that it came with stock. there is alot of grey area in engine swaps which was one of the nice things about EFILIVE that gave us great flexibility to work within the rules. As they say, all good things must come to an end, and this one is no different. MAYBE, just MAYBE we can open some peoples eyes to the fact that going out and rolling coal isn't cool anymore and is simply drawing attention to a matter that shouldn't be.

Could not agree more with this statement

[schwoch1]

x3

I'd hate to lose EFI Live all together if the EPA decided to ban import of the V2, hosing up both the diesel and gas tuning for everyone. .

Unfortunately, I was thinking the same thing............
There would still be back door ways into the country, still wouldn't be a huge deal. Just would have to import it from Canada. Just another step and more money, but well worth the cost!

Mike

[Chevy366]

Well I can say I have been sprayed by the black soot while on the motorcycle, not cool, but hate any kind of enforced restrictions by the EPA.

[Tobin]

If you have a tuned 6.7 truck (deleted) and update everything, will you loose the deletes on that truck?

Tobin

[Wheelz]

Thank you EFI for being open about removal of functionality instead of surprising us. Maybe one day we Americans can get our EPA back in check.

I just want to verify that any tune already with the deletes in place will not revert with the updates and all we are losing is the ability to disable the dpf regenerative system? I know this was discussed but I didn't see an actual answer. I apologize if I missed it.

[2007 5.9]

If you have a deleted truck and you update to the new build..youll no longer be able to modify the "deleted files"...it will still be running deleted as usual, but youll no longer to be able to adjust the parameters as you can now. Essentially it will be frozen.

[TorqueDieselLLC]

so i just noticed that i'm still running build 195 which is working great for me except for the ding on the 6.7s of course. I guess i need to go ahead and update to the build 211 before it go's away then huh?

[2007 5.9]

Current build is 211

[Duramax 6.6L]

If you update to the latest version, will you be able to modify the tune with the deletes in place, but not modify the actual settings and tables for the delete. Are we able to modify the other tables and setting still ex. fuel and timing, ect.

[2007 5.9]

If you update to the latest version, will you be able to modify the tune with the deletes in place, but not modify the actual settings and tables for the delete. Are we able to modify the other tables and setting still ex. fuel and timing, ect.

Build 211 is i think the last "Delete Friendly" build...so subsequent Build 212 wont allow for DPF/EGR controls editing. You should have no issue editing the tunefile otherwise.

[30 RUM]

I have a quick question, right now I'm able to tune Cummins, if later I decide to add the GM suite will I have to update to the soon to be released "Non Delete" software?

[catman3126]

if you want to do duramax and do deletes you bettter buy the gm tuning capability now.

[Duramax 6.6L]

I have a quick question, right now I'm able to tune Cummins, if later I decide to add the GM suite will I have to update to the soon to be released "Non Delete" software?

You do not need to update the software to add a license to the V2,

[jaminish]

What happens if you delete the dpf and egr on the 6.7 then get the new software, will you be allowed to do the csp5 tuning to that truck and keep the delete emissions and will you still be able to tune that truck keeping the dpf and egr off?

[minytrker]

People need to calm down and read over everything that EFI Live has posted. Everyone is freaking out over something that really isnt a huge deal. Asking a million questions on how to by pass the law on a forum isnt the best thing either.

[THEFERMANATOR]

People need to calm down and read over everything that EFI Live has posted. Everyone is freaking out over something that really isnt a huge deal. Asking a million questions on how to by pass the law on a forum isnt the best thing either.

What he said. If this continues, next thing we know the EPA will be coming after them again for hosting info that could be used to bypass the emissions systems or help lead them to a workaround that they will then use against us(or worse against EFILIVE).

[schwoch1]

A wise man once told me...... Just be glad you don't get all the government that you pay for!!!

Mike

[Wheelz]

A wise man once told me...... Just be glad you don't get all the government that you pay for!!!

Mike

That same wise man also said the 9 scariest words ever spoken were "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

[Duramax 6.6L]

What happens if you delete the dpf and egr on the 6.7 then get the new software, will you be allowed to do the csp5 tuning to that truck and keep the delete emissions and will you still be able to tune that truck keeping the dpf and egr off?

Read through the forum closely and you will find the answers you are looking for.

[IHFarmer07]

So I did A LOT of reading here and two other forums, so will the egr functions be in this upgraded program for lbz's and lly's forever lost or will they be available yet for them? I'm going to guess yes it will be lost forever for USA based tuners but I haven't specifically seen anything for them engines. Because I had seen somewhere where the lmm and up will be effected only.

[GoneNomad]

So I did A LOT of reading here and two other forums, so will the egr functions be in this upgraded program for lbz's and lly's forever lost or will they be available yet for them? I'm going to guess yes it will be lost forever for USA based tuners but I haven't specifically seen anything for them engines. Because I had seen somewhere where the lmm and up will be effected only.

The OP (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?21154-Diesel-tuning-restrictions-for-USA-customers&p=182204&viewfull=1#post182204) mentions Please read THIS (http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=167&Itemid=158) as a starting point, and at the end of that it states: "For USA based customers only, EGR and DPF related items will no longer be available for modification." which seems pretty unequivocal.

__________________________________________________


Now I have a question of my own:
Will the upcoming EFILive Tune Tool software update require an internet connection every time the program is launched?

[GMPX]

Now I have a question of my own:
Will the upcoming EFILive Tune Tool software update require an internet connection every time the program is launched?
No it will not, nor will it report 'back to base with your data' if you have an internet connection.

Just an FYI as to why this was not something we would remove for customers worldwide, here's an interesting link from the UK:

http://www.dpfremoval.co.uk/ - states "The DPF is not a legal requirement or is it needed for the MOT test".

[davematthews]

No it will not, nor will it report 'back to base with your data' if you have an internet connection.

Just an FYI as to why this was not something we would remove for customers worldwide, here's an interesting link from the UK:

http://www.dpfremoval.co.uk/ - states "The DPF is not a legal requirement or is it needed for the MOT test".

And we supposedly live in the land of the free. :mad:

Its getting worse and worse. Not just emmissions. Everything.. Thanks for doing what you can to help us out.:thumb_yello:

[DURAtotheMAX]

And we supposedly live in the land of the free. :mad:

Uh yeah, we also live in the land with the most automobiles, and pollution......................................... ...

[GoneNomad]

Uh yeah, we also live in the land with the most automobiles, and pollution......................................... ...
No Ben, we do not live in the land with the most pollution. And hasn't been since before the 2004/2007/2010 implementation of stricter emissions controls on diesel automobiles.

----


No it will not, nor will it report 'back to base with your data' if you have an internet connection.
Just an FYI as to why this was not something we would remove for customers worldwide, here's an interesting link from the UK:
http://www.dpfremoval.co.uk/ - states "The DPF is not a legal requirement or is it needed for the MOT test".
Thanks for clarifying.

One last question I have, since some others have made statements that created some confusion on this point:

When the upcoming versions of EFILive are installed and used on a PC in the US, the DPF & EGR features will not be available (as we all know by now).
But if that *SAME* PC is subsequently moved to a location outside the reach of the US EPA (say to a foreign country such as Belize), will the DPF & EGR features "magically" become available once again without the user having to take any additional steps?

Thanks!

[Chevy366]

And we supposedly live in the land of the free. :mad:



It is free, you just have to pay for it.

[DAVe3283]

Uh yeah, we also live in the land with the most automobiles, and pollution......................................... ...
What?? Have you ever seen Mexico City? Or India? Or China, though they are improving. We may have the most automobiles, but I don't buy that we have the most pollution.

But, the EPA is the reason we don't have much pollution. And while some of their rules are questionable, they have done their job since they were created. I just wish we the public had more (some?) say in the matter.

[hog]

What?? Have you ever seen Mexico City? Or India? Or China, though they are improving. We may have the most automobiles, but I don't buy that we have the most pollution.

But, the EPA is the reason we don't have much pollution. And while some of their rules are questionable, they have done their job since they were created. I just wish we the public had more (some?) say in the matter.
You are right, the USA is not #1, its #2 since 2007 and it releases 3 times the amount of pollution than #3 Russia. Prior to 2007 it was the worlds #1 polluting country, and now it's JUST behind the #1 polluter which is China. And this is just for air pollution. I would hate to see the stats that include nuclear/water/land/light pollution.
#1 China
2 USA
3 Russia
4 India
5 Japan
6 Germany
7 Canada
8 UK
9 South Korea
10 Iran

peace
Hog

[KhakiCummins]

No Ben, we do not live in the land with the most pollution. And hasn't been since before the 2004/2007/2010 implementation of stricter emissions controls on diesel automobiles.

----


Thanks for clarifying.

One last question I have, since some others have made statements that created some confusion on this point:

When the upcoming versions of EFILive are installed and used on a PC in the US, the DPF & EGR features will not be available (as we all know by now).
But if that *SAME* PC is subsequently moved to a location outside the reach of the US EPA (say to a foreign country such as Belize), will the DPF & EGR features "magically" become available once again without the user having to take any additional steps?

Thanks!

I doubt that the staff at EFILive will answer that question. They have already said that they will not divulge how they are determining what country you are tuning in.

[tinman]

But if that *SAME* PC is subsequently moved to a location outside the reach of the US EPA (say to a foreign country such as Belize), will the DPF & EGR features "magically" become available once again without the user having to take any additional steps?

Thanks!

Funny you should mention Belize. I was just down there.... for reasons mentioned above. A lot of diesel trucks down there, probably all stolen.

[GMPX]

Funny you should mention Belize. I was just down there....
Did you find John McAfee?

[dodgeram082500]

did you find john mcafee?

^^^lmao

[cme265]

figures...couple of assclowns ruin a good thing...just my opinion

[schwoch1]

Did you find John McAfee?

Unfortunately, I think he is here in the states.......
I think that the nutcase shoulda stayed there.... but that is just my opinion!

Mike

[GMPX]

It's funny how the automotive world works. I had been noticing brand new 2011+ model FORD's over here with the 2.7L V6 Diesel blowing some soot on hard acceleration, this intrigued me as I couldn't figure how a new car with a DPF could be doing this. Well after a looking looking around the answer was simple, from factory these cars have no DPF, yes, a 2011+ diesel car with no DPF from factory. I guess FORD has no plans to export those to the USA!
It gets better, the 2013 Holden Colorado with the 2.8L Duramax has no DPF either, no wonder both these vehicles get exceptional highway MPG figures (FORD claimed 37MPG for a 4,510 lb vehicle).

[ScarabEpic22]

Crap, that means the US wont be getting the 2.8L Duramax except if you import it. :(

So, Ross...figured out what ECM those bad boys use yet?

[GMPX]

I believe it's an EDC17 of some sort :yucky:, though I haven't seen one for myself.

[ScarabEpic22]

i believe it's an edc17 of some sort :yucky:, though i haven't seen one for myself.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[THEFERMANATOR]

Whatever it is somebody has cracked it as they have some REALLY fast ones over in Thailand.

[cindy@efilive]

Got some links?

[andrewjamesbond1]

Question, does this also affect the EGR capabilities of the earlier trucks as well? Such as 03-06?

[andrewjamesbond1]

(Hands together in praying stance...) Please say no!

[KhakiCummins]

Question, does this also affect the EGR capabilities of the earlier trucks as well? Such as 03-06?

This affected the disabling of any emissions EQUIPMENT installed on a vehicle. Since the 5.9L only have in cylinder EGR which is a combination of the CAM and tuning, there is really no real emission EQUIPMENT to affect. In order for it to affect the 5.9L, they would have to do away with the ability to tune all together which I don't see happening.

[THEFERMANATOR]

This affected the disabling of any emissions EQUIPMENT installed on a vehicle. Since the 5.9L only have in cylinder EGR which is a combination of the CAM and tuning, there is really no real emission EQUIPMENT to affect. In order for it to affect the 5.9L, they would have to do away with the ability to tune all together which I don't see happening.

Your forgetting that most who use EFILIVE for diesels are probably using it for a DURAMAX as the CUMMINS is still fairly new to it. And starting in 02, the DURAMAX could have an EGR valve on it. So the question remains will we lose the EGR control ability for 02-07's?

[GMPX]

Your forgetting that most who use EFILIVE for diesels are probably using it for a DURAMAX as the CUMMINS is still fairly new to it. And starting in 02, the DURAMAX could have an EGR valve on it. So the question remains will we lose the EGR control ability for 02-07's?
We haven't made a final decision on the earlier model EGR question as it can be worked around without tuning right?

[KhakiCummins]

Your forgetting that most who use EFILIVE for diesels are probably using it for a DURAMAX as the CUMMINS is still fairly new to it. And starting in 02, the DURAMAX could have an EGR valve on it. So the question remains will we lose the EGR control ability for 02-07's?

Sorry about that. I forgot this thread is in the General Diesel section. :doh2:

[andrewjamesbond1]

We haven't made a final decision on the earlier model EGR question as it can be worked around without tuning right?

Can someone else besides Ross explain? Sorry for the noob questions...

[comnrailpwr]

You can do away with the egr valves in the earlier duramaxes without having to retune the ecm.

[THEFERMANATOR]

We haven't made a final decision on the earlier model EGR question as it can be worked around without tuning right?


You can do away with the egr valves in the earlier duramaxes without having to retune the ecm.


You can with a finger stick, but they can be finicky at best sometimes. I'm just glad I went with my 01 LB7 as it has NOTHING on it for emission controls. I was even able to do away with my 95's cat converter as the 01 LB7 doesn't have one.

[comnrailpwr]

Ross,
This may have been asked in a different form and I didn't catch it but here goes..
Say I have existing deleted tune files and I modify those existing deleted tune files with this new release, add duration, change timing or whatever I do. Will it automatically implement emission control functions in the tune when it is loaded back onto the truck? Basically making it a non deleted tune file. I read these statements by you Ross and this question came up.
*For any existing tune files you have, the tuning changes will remain untouched, all new tune files created with the next update will not have access to the DPF related functions for USA customers*
*The changes will not affect existing tunes, we can't wind back or undo what has already been done to a file prior to this new update*

Also although it is not a wise decision and should not be done, will it be possible to delete trucks with another tuner, while leaving all other parameters stock, read that file and tune with Efilive? Will the emission control be automatically implemented in the tune when its loaded to the truck. I know the risks involved with reading and modifying "dirty" files. Even of this works I feel all the other tuners will be shortly following these regulations as well.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Ross,
This may have been asked in a different form and I didn't catch it but here goes..
Say I have existing deleted tune files and I modify those existing deleted tune files with this new release, add duration, change timing or whatever I do. Will it automatically implement emission control functions in the tune when it is loaded back onto the truck? Basically making it a non deleted tune file. I read these statements by you Ross and this question came up.
*For any existing tune files you have, the tuning changes will remain untouched, all new tune files created with the next update will not have access to the DPF related functions for USA customers*
*The changes will not affect existing tunes, we can't wind back or undo what has already been done to a file prior to this new update*

I doubt this will happen. A good example would be the LB7, it was available in both EGR and NON EGR equipped from the factory. If teh software enabled the emissions equipment automatically, then it would enable emissions controls in tune files that never had them from the factory.

[comnrailpwr]

I doubt this will happen. A good example would be the LB7, it was available in both EGR and NON EGR equipped from the factory. If teh software enabled the emissions equipment automatically, then it would enable emissions controls in tune files that never had them from the factory.

If that's the case then this will only affect trucks that tunes are built from this new release and all existing trucks will be able to stay deleted and still get all the benefits of future updates? Trucks with existing tunes modified with future releases wont be affected. This wood be great. It would prevent me from having to buy another v2 to tune current deleted customers. I'll just not tune deleted trucks from here on out. Doesn't affect me at all, I don't tune for a living nor do I have plans on owning anything with emissions anytime soon.

[cindy@efilive]

Ross,
This may have been asked in a different form and I didn't catch it but here goes..
Say I have existing deleted tune files and I modify those existing deleted tune files with this new release, add duration, change timing or whatever I do. Will it automatically implement emission control functions in the tune when it is loaded back onto the truck? Basically making it a non deleted tune file. I read these statements by you Ross and this question came up.
*For any existing tune files you have, the tuning changes will remain untouched, all new tune files created with the next update will not have access to the DPF related functions for USA customers*
*The changes will not affect existing tunes, we can't wind back or undo what has already been done to a file prior to this new update*
Jake, you've quoted the answer....

The changes will not affect existing tunes, we can't wind back or undo what has already been done to a file prior to this new update



Also although it is not a wise decision and should not be done, will it be possible to delete trucks with another tuner, while leaving all other parameters stock, read that file and tune with Efilive? Will the emission control be automatically implemented in the tune when its loaded to the truck. I know the risks involved with reading and modifying "dirty" files. Even of this works I feel all the other tuners will be shortly following these regulations as well.

With what other product? (Please don't answer that) I believe we were either the last or almost the last to remove this functionality.
As quoted above "The changes will not affect existing tunes, we can't wind back or undo what has already been done to a file prior to this new update"

The only change we've made to our software is we've removed specific parameters for certain locations. No other operational changes have been made.

Cheers
Cindy

[comnrailpwr]

This is good news thanks. Existing deleted customers will be happy.

[THEFERMANATOR]

With what other product? (Please don't answer that) I believe we were either the last or almost the last to remove this functionality.
As quoted above "The changes will not affect existing tunes, we can't wind back or undo what has already been done to a file prior to this new update"

The only change we've made to our software is we've removed specific parameters for certain locations. No other operational changes have been made.

Cheers
Cindy

I believe one large company still has there tuner to do deletes(at least they still have it on tehre website), and somebody who sells H&S says they will still offer delete tunes(but require an EPA waiver stating it is going on a competition truck that is not road registered).

[GMPX]

From what I am told they always had customers sign the 'off road' waiver?

[cindy@efilive]

I believe one large company still has there tuner to do deletes(at least they still have it on tehre website), and somebody who sells H&S says they will still offer delete tunes(but require an EPA waiver stating it is going on a competition truck that is not road registered).

Maybe those guys need to sit in on SEMA's Diesel EPA meetings. The Off Road Waiver was deemed useless years ago (maybe the 2008 meeting?). SEMA's advice was for the manufacturer to confirm with the relevent DMV that the vehicle was infact unregistered PRIOR to selling any non-compliant product.

Cheers
Cindy

[comnrailpwr]

I am not pro emission equipment but theoretically it makes for a cleaner future. That is if emissions of the manufacturing of this equipment does not exceed what the end product puts out as a whole. Regardless this is the direction this nation is going so we mise well welcome it and figure out ways we can tune beside it. Who knows, with these professional tuners out there their might be tuning advantages of these systems in the future.

[GMPX]

I remember when cat converters were going to mark the end of the world for performance, nowdays just look what an LS engine can achieve with full emissions equipment still fitted.

[THEFERMANATOR]

From what I am told they always had customers sign the 'off road' waiver?


Maybe those guys need to sit in on SEMA's Diesel EPA meetings. The Off Road Waiver was deemed useless years ago (maybe the 2008 meeting?). SEMA's advice was for the manufacturer to confirm with the relevent DMV that the vehicle was infact unregistered PRIOR to selling any non-compliant product.

Cheers
Cindy

He didn't say an off road waiver, he said they would have to get paperwork from the EPA stating that it was a TRUE competition only truck that was not road registered before they would unlock it. Basically said if the EPA would approve it, THEN they would unlock it. I don't know this first hand, just what one of there retailers said.

[Powder_Keg]

Any word on when the new update is coming out? I just PCS'd to Turkey, there is ZERO emissions or any regulation here. Crap as i type this there is a dumpster on fire next to me. Apparently they light it every-night as there is no trash service.

[C Murda]

if i were to order a V2 and cummins license for a 6.7 within the next week will it still allow for me to use the current 211 software that is out now?

[Powder_Keg]

Yes (as i understand it) just download the software now before it changes

[C Murda]

Yes (as i understand it) just download the software now before it changes
i did download the v7 software but do i need that v8 software that is on the download page? or will i ONLY be running V7?

[Powder_Keg]

You will need both. The 7 is for tuning and 8 is for flashing (currently) the next release will incorporate both into the v8 software as I understand it

[C Murda]

ok so all i want to know is can i still buy a V2 flashscan device with the current "old" 211 software and not the new restricted software?

[Powder_Keg]

I said from what I have gathered... Yes! You aren't going to get an official answer on the forum from EFILive. Try to PM one of them if you want it from the horses mouth. Or PM Dave Matthews on here or the cummins form as he is a vendor.

[cindy@efilive]

The impending software release isn't at the stage of final testing. It will not be released this week, it is possible that it may be released next week. From release, it make take a couple of weeks to filter through to new CD's being shipped with our product via our dealer network. Of course it could take less than a couple of weeks too - it really depends on the dealer and the volume they sell.

Cheers
Cindy

[Powder_Keg]

Any timeline in the next release with the cummins updates?? I finally gave up and re loaded my mini max tuner so I didn't have I listen to that damn ding anymore.

Do you guys not know what they are doing different that disables that's dinger? I would think that of you can see more and adjust more that it would be something caught early on.

I'm not bashing and I think you all do great work and gave us more than we could have dreamed for. I guess I'm just lost on why this is still an issue. Especially changing the timer interval isn't a fix but seems like a bandaid that will work if you don't drive longer than 6 hours.

[catman3126]

Anybody know where the dinger is so it can be unplugged for the time being?

[2007 5.9]

If either of you send me your tune I can turn the dinger off until its released.

[catman3126]

Will do tonight. email or just post it on here?

[2007 5.9]

Email is just fine.

[wholdc]

Any vendors still have stock of old V2s?

[catman3126]

Old v2's? what do you mean?

[wholdc]

Old v2's? what do you mean?

V2's whose firmware still supports specific LMM tuning features for offroad vehicles

[ScarabEpic22]

V2's whose firmware still supports specific LMM tuning features for offroad vehicles

All are currently still able to do so...even using RC2. Even when the restriction comes out, you do not have to upgrade the firmware on your V2 to the latest stuff (but you also cannot upgrade your software to get bug fixes, new tables, etc).

[wholdc]

All are currently still able to do so...even using RC2. Even when the restriction comes out, you do not have to upgrade the firmware on your V2 to the latest stuff (but you also cannot upgrade your software to get bug fixes, new tables, etc).

Fantastic! Was worried about the future of a couple tunes already done now that I need another box. Thanks for the info Erik.

[comnrailpwr]

Any deleted tunes you currently have will remain unaffected with the restrictions in place, even of you use the latest and greatest firmware/software. This is my understanding. The new restricted software cannot undo what is already done to the tune behind the scenes so to speak. Am I right?

[ScarabEpic22]

Fantastic! Was worried about the future of a couple tunes already done now that I need another box. Thanks for the info Erik.

If you can change the file(s) now, you wont have any issues down the road. That said, if you have a new customer come in, you wont be able to use their stock tune and delete anything (in the US).


Any deleted tunes you currently have will remain unaffected with the restrictions in place, even of you use the latest and greatest firmware/software. This is my understanding. The new restricted software cannot undo what is already done to the tune behind the scenes so to speak. Am I right?

Correct, there is no way for EFILive to go into an existing tune and change those tables back. I imagine there could be a way, but AFAIK this will NOT be the case.

[wholdc]

[QUOTE=ScarabEpic22;189083]If you can change the file(s) now, you wont have any issues down the road. That said, if you have a new customer come in, you wont be able to use their stock tune and delete anything (in the US).

Great! Thanks again for all the info

[cajun225]

So if I upgrade my software and firmware now the restrictions will not apply correct? Also when the software and firmware updates come out that have these restrictions will you let us know so if we wish not to upgrade we do not?

[ScarabEpic22]

So if I upgrade my software and firmware now the restrictions will not apply correct? Also when the software and firmware updates come out that have these restrictions will you let us know so if we wish not to upgrade we do not?

EFILive has NOT made a public announcement regarding Diesel tuning restrictions yet (except for the LML which will debut without these features enabled in the USA). Believe me, they will make a big announcement before they do so.

[beau abston]

There was just a swim release last week, was that it? Will there be a warning on the site before you update to let you know?

[cindy@efilive]

Release notes always list the changes made in our software.

Cheers
Cindy

[CGASTON]

Cindy,

If I read correctly, the updates to the DPF have not yet been implemented? Also, is the issues fixed for flashing 2013 Cummins?

[dodgeram082500]

I don't think they've even started development for the 4th gens yet. Short answer of the dpf question is no also. Though I'm not Cindy

[CGASTON]

[QUOTE=dodgeram082500;197513]I don't think they've even started development for the 4th gens yet. Short answer of the dpf question is no also. Though I'm not Cindy[/Q

My understanding to your answer is that people are still bricking the 2013 ECM/PCM when trying to load a tune. Is that correct?

[comnrailpwr]

[QUOTE=dodgeram082500;197513]I don't think they've even started development for the 4th gens yet. Short answer of the dpf question is no also. Though I'm not Cindy[/Q

My understanding to your answer is that people are still bricking the 2013 ECM/PCM when trying to load a tune. Is that correct?

No one is using any EFILive product to read,flash,scan,connect to any Cummins ecm beyond 2009.5.

[dodgeram082500]

[QUOTE=CGASTON;197515]

No one is using any EFILive product to read,flash,scan,connect to any Cummins ecm beyond 2009.5.

Exactly wasn't trying to sound like anyone was

[CGASTON]

Why is that? EFILive has so much potential. So then, what is everyone using?

[Wheelz]

Why is that? EFILive has so much potential. So then, what is everyone using?

EFI hasn't developed support for the 4th gen cummins yet

[cindy@efilive]

EFILive doesn't offer support for 2010+ trucks, but plans on doing do. When we do, DPF and emissions removal parameters will NOT be part of our solution.

Cheers
Cindy

[L31Sleeper]

What's wrong with you guys (forum members), am I the only one that is not a moron.
Everyone is looking at the why....no one is looking at how. Everyone send $20 to my
paypal account so I can buy a new V2. :banana:

[L31Sleeper]

It is based on where you PC "thinks" it is..........so what makes your PC think it's in the USA..........the time zone
Go into the bottom right hand corner of your PC where the time and date are displayed and change the time zone
to Auckland.

[jordylee18]

It is based on where you PC "thinks" it is..........so what makes your PC think it's in the USA..........the time zone
Go into the bottom right hand corner of your PC where the time and date are displayed and change the time zone
to Auckland.

If that's true, I wouldn't say it so loud.

[KhakiCummins]

It is based on where you PC "thinks" it is..........so what makes your PC think it's in the USA..........the time zone
Go into the bottom right hand corner of your PC where the time and date are displayed and change the time zone
to Auckland.

In light of where things are at with the EPA these days I highly doubt that EFILive will make it that simple to unlock the emissions features. Something that simple would be a slap in the face to the EPA and I don't see EFILive doing that, they have too much riding on it.

[Stangpwr71]

Not only that but Canada and Mexico use the same timezone as us.

[dixiespeed2009]

Will a laptop, V2, build 212 software, and Truck all purchased in Texas be restricted if it is all shipped overseas? As in will it have the DPF DOC delete restrictions once it is shipped out of the US? Will shipping all of the equipment overseas release the restrictions? Do I need to purchase the V2 and 212 software after shipping the truck? Purchase a new laptop after? I will be stationed for 4 years overseas and would like to mod my 2011 LML while I'm there.

[Boost]

me too :)

[schwoch1]

It is based on where you PC "thinks" it is..........so what makes your PC think it's in the USA..........the time zone
Go into the bottom right hand corner of your PC where the time and date are displayed and change the time zone
to Auckland.
SHHHHH........ don't need to be broadcasting theories like that out on a public forum!:music_whistling_1:

[davematthews]

SHHHHH........ don't need to be broadcasting theories like that out on a public forum!:music_whistling_1:

It won't matter. The next guy coming up with come right out and say it too. Its no different on this forum, CF, CompD, etc... There's always going to be someone who just can't not post up about it. :doh:

[schwoch1]

It won't matter. The next guy coming up with come right out and say it too. Its no different on this forum, CF, CompD, etc... There's always going to be someone who just can't not post up about it. :doh:

And let me guess, they will be the loudest voices when Big Brother comes down on companies like EFI Live and makes it impossible to tune anything, right??? :ermm:
Just my thoughts!

[EagleMark]

That day is coming! Our government is out of control when it comes to regulations and absolute complete control over everything. Money is not object, we are DEEP in debt and just print more money as they need to control more and more! Not an issue to them, but to the people the dollar is worth less and less because of this.

[GMPX]

EagleMark, from an outsider looking in I feel embarrassed for your current situation, it's amazing to watch unfold. Pretty sure Obama must be sitting there crossing off the days on the calender until "I'm outta here, I'm done with this lot of clowns".

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

EagleMark, from an outsider looking in I feel embarrassed for your current situation, it's amazing to watch unfold. Pretty sure Obama must be sitting there crossing off the days on the calender until "I'm outta here, I'm done with this lot of clowns".

Actually we are all crossing off the days waiting for that clown to go away hoping we don't get another clown like him right after he goes

[dodgeram082500]

^I was going to say that lol ^

[EagleMark]

It's always a problem for a second/last term president here but normally the person in charge still had what's best for country on his mind. They are after there agenda and nothing else matters. The bigger issue is how the media reports everything with the same slant of deception that comes from our... (well I was going to say leader but that would be a poor choice of words) president. So the people are mislead and that is the majority right now, they don't have time while struggling through life, job, family to find facts and decipher through the politics and BS.

You have to remember that obama is a lawer, (one of the best from Harvard University) and the only job he's ever had is a community organizer. Never worked a day in his life, has no real life or business experience. He is a master of deception! Fact checks from his State of the Union address (which is very important message from our president) was 70% lie, 20% mislead facts and that leaves 10% truth?

We are in deep trouble right now! There is no plan for future! Hell we don't even have a plan for next week?

[superwagon]

Can't cross the days off the calender fast enough! Unfortunately too many are on the receiving end and they will probably vote another just like him in.

[GMPX]

If it is any consolation, Australia just (finally) got rid of a government that had well and truly overstayed its welcome, it is a nice feeling.


You have to remember that obama is a lawer...........his State of the Union address (which is very important message from our president) was 70% lie, 20% mislead facts and that leaves 10% truth?
1 + 1 still equals 2 right?

So do you guys think he will go down in history as the most unpopular president by the end of his term? I don't really know many that have been before him apart from the Hollywood actor guy and the oil baron family, oh and the guy who was trying to give Berlusconi some competition :pokey:

I've already suggested to GMC-2002-Dmax that once our new Prime Minister is done fixing things up here maybe he could offer your lot some advice? The two main points he pushed during the election campaign.....
1 - Stop asylum seekers coming to Australia by boat via military control of the boarders.
2 - Repeal the carbon and mining taxes introduced by the previous government
My point being that they don't always have to please the minorities to win.

[Wheelz]

So do you guys think he will go down in history as the most unpopular president by the end of his term? I don't really know many that have been before him.

I doubt it... But I would place a $20 bet that 20 years will prove he was responsible for the most corrupt government in our history.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/13/uza3yzyd.jpg

[EagleMark]

1,000s of vetrans today went to take down all the barriers closing the WWII memorial, when done they carried them to close the WHitehouse instead. This has not made the news yet. They were met with Riot Police... who then backed down and left. We will find out what happens when news catches up!


http://youtu.be/5ONgQa63Tz8

[EagleMark]

Here's some of the protesters today, they look really dangerous!

15972

[Wheelz]

Here's some of the protesters today, they look really dangerous!

15972

Here is another protester

http://twitchy.com/2013/10/13/wow-just-wow-wounded-patriot-is-poignant-reminder-at-million-vets-march-pics/

[EagleMark]

I do like the new name for barricades! "Barrycades" :rotflmao:

[Wheelz]

Yeah that is awesome

[GMPX]

FYI, original post has been updated

[Boost]

Noted, thanks!

[C Murda]

ok so im still currently running the unrestricted 211 build does this current update (Nov 7) have ANY of those emissions related restrictions for ANY vehicle cummins or duramax? what about the Nov 21 pre release? if no restrictions at all were implemented then this will be my FIRST ever update since owning a V2 so forgive me for my ignorance but what do i do? do i have to re download the V7.5 and V8? do i have to download all the other updates that were released in between (Aug 24/ june 10)? or do i just download the current most recent one? what is this "Nov 21 pre release? is this the most recent update or should i be downloading the Nov 7 update?

now what do i do when downloading like what is the procedure? am i supposed to have my V2 plugged in to my laptop? or is this simply just a download for the computer only?

[joecar]

Please read post #1, specifically this part of it:



NOVEMBER 2013 Update:
Due to time constraints, the November 7th, 2013 software release will be the final public software release for Customers in 2013. EFILive expects additional pre-release software for LML mapping and E20 Non USA Diesel Cruze tuning support to be released before the end of the 2013.

Specifically, EFILive will not be implementing any software restrictions in 2013. Customers and Tuners should familiarize themselves with their local laws and restrictions as per http://www.efilive.com/legal. EFILive shall provide further customer updates as they become available in 2014.

[C Murda]

ok i did read that but wanted to make 100% sure that since my build 211 that there has never been any updates that have implemented ANY emissions restrictions to any supported vehicles? my concern was because that i have read multiple posts stating that "next public release would include USA restrictions..." and "its coming very soon..." and this was all in JANUARY! not that i want it to come i just want to be careful not to update my V2 when it does...

[Danthaman]

I get guys all the time deleting there egr and dpf and wanting this done. I tell them can't do that tune for smoke tune. They do get butt hurt. I doesn't bother me about not doing the egr and dpf delete. Just something we have to live with.

[cajun225]

Ok I don't know if Im missing something or not but it looks like if I update to the latest software and firmware I can still do dpf and egr deletes. Is this correct or can someone please point me to a updated link. Thanks

[catman3126]

No you cannot on LML's period.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Ok I don't know if Im missing something or not but it looks like if I update to the latest software and firmware I can still do dpf and egr deletes. Is this correct or can someone please point me to a updated link. Thanks


No you cannot on LML's period.
You can still do deletes an onay platform that you could previously do deletes on. Since we in the US never had the ability to do deletes on the 2011+ LML, they simply do not offer that portion to us. So up to 2010 yes, 2011+ no as we were never able to.

[cajun225]

Thanks for the info. I only do it to my truck and being that I just got a 10 lmm I wanted to make sure before I update. Again thanks.

[catman3126]

With a lmm you are fine

[barrytastet]

I'm a newbie here and to EfiLive. I recently installed a new DPF (long story) and the exhaust guy messed up and welded the pressure sensor due to a stripped plug. Ive been having troubles since, the worst is that the egr is on all the time. I pulled the solenoid and it seems to be working properly, but it is fully extended when the engine is running.
Instead of replacing the solenoid, I put it in the glove box and taped off the wire. The engine is running much better :) I need to smog in a few weeks, so I'm looking for a replacement DPF. I've got the V2, but I'm still going through the manuals and plan to tweak the tuning after smog.
Question, Is it going to be ok to drive without the solenoid for a few weeks?

[derkscustomcars]

Is this USA only restriction still the case? and if so, does it apply to the new V2 HD as well?

[GMPX]

Answered in the other thread you started.

[derkscustomcars]

Yes for the HD, but is it still available outside the us for the regular v2?

[cindy@efilive]

Yes for the HD, but is it still available outside the us for the regular v2?
No platform EFILive has developed support for since about 2013 contains delete parameters regardless of hardware.

Cheers
Cindy

[Sparky8370]

I still have my old efi live that I haven't used since probably around 2010. I have software on a couple old laptops. This hasn't been updated. Someone should still be able to use for DPF delete, right? I don't want to update it and lose the ability.