CALC.PIDs

[COONDOG96]

Is there a way to down load the calc. PIDs? I'm running serial WB and none of the PID files are set that way just analog.I have tried to make them can't figger that out. I want to run AutoVE and Calc.VE before I cook my motor.

[joecar]

See here: A-New-Twist-on-CALC-VE-Table-Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-A-New-Twist-on-CALC-VE-Table-Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table)


[ copy the calc_pids.txt file contained in post #1 of that thread to My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration on your PC/laptop ]


I suggest doing Calc.VET first and see how you go from there.

[COONDOG96]

OK first I'm not a computer person they hate me. Im thinking EFIlive is going to be a waste for me as I'm getting worse at it.I did what you said now I have a text file what do I do with that? If I get rid of Serial WB and go to Analog can I just use the AutoVE PID list?

[joecar]

Did you copy that file to that folder...?


Then read the thread I pointed you to... then start the scantool and follow along int that thread.


Don't get rid of serial wideband... wherever AutoVE says "BEN" (analog) you substitute "WO2BEN" (serial) from the Calc.VET thread.


Have you tried doing Calc.VET first...? Try reading thru the Calc.VET thread and follow along in the scantool (like a dry run)...

you probably should read the scantool user manual pdf (Start->All Programs->EFILive->V7.5->Documents->Scantool User Manual).

[joecar]

What year/model/vehicle do you have...?

What is your intention with regards to tuning it...?

[COONDOG96]

Its a 97 k3500 dulley 7.4Vortec 30 over,Comp Cams Roller Cam and rockers,Gibson shorty headfers,3.5" exhaust,Merc.MPI intake with2.3 Whipple Blower with intercooler,0411 PCM,Innovate MTX-L AFR. Started with a mail order tune ran but not well.Got a local tuner to work on it got much better but it still needs alot of work. I'm trying to learn and go slow but I need EFI for dumasses. I've been trying to get these PIDs to work for over a week.

[COONDOG96]

This is a great forum with a great product and souport. I just need to get out of the stone age of carbs and points and try and learn this stuff.

[COONDOG96]

OK after 2 days of banging my head on the wallI have finely got the PIDs from the new calc_vet Tutorial.in. Did a log and it appears that CAL.VEN "Calculated VE,Not corrected" is not loging anything. Is there a fix for this?

[darcy]

Hi COONDOG,

Give this a try:

Open your log and look at the PIDS tab. You'll see that CALC.VEN has a red X though it.
Right click on it and select 'More Info'. The popup box tells you that CALC.VEN is not available because CALC.DAT.K is not selected.
Close the pop-up box, and find CALC.DAT (I do this by ordering the PID list by the Parameter column.
CALC.DAT will be greyed out; Double click CALC.DAT to include it.

[Rich Z]

Hi COONDOG,

Give this a try:

Open your log and look at the PIDS tab. You'll see that CALC.VEN has a red X though it.
Right click on it and select 'More Info'. The popup box tells you that CALC.VEN is not available because CALC.DAT.K is not selected.
Close the pop-up box, and find CALC.DAT (I do this by ordering the PID list by the Parameter column.
CALC.DAT will be greyed out; Double click CALC.DAT to include it.

I'm glad a read this, otherwise I would have gotten bitten by the same thing. Is this CALC.DAT actually missing in the two tutorials I have been using, and I just overlooked it?

[COONDOG96]

yep I had to find it and now it works

I'm glad a read this, otherwise I would have gotten bitten by the same thing. Is this CALC.DAT actually missing in the two tutorials I have been using, and I just overlooked it?

[joecar]

CALC.DAT is in the Calc.VET thread.

[COONDOG96]

I just looked three more times I still don't see it?
CALC.DAT is in the Calc.VET thread.

[joecar]

CALC.DAT is contained in the calc_pids.txt file in post #1 of the Calc.VET thread...


. . .

I. SERIAL WIDEBAND USERS (REQUIRES V2)

1. Setup Calculated PIDS

calc_pids.txt (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13243&d=1337978026) <--- updated calc_pids.txt file

Copy that calc_pids.txt file to this location (or copy/paste its contents to the file at this location on your PC):
My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration\calc_pids.txt

. . .



A-New-Twist-on-CALC-VE-Table-Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-A-New-Twist-on-CALC-VE-Table-Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table)

[COONDOG96]

OK yes it is in the text but if its not in the pids slected CalculatedVE, Not corrested does not work.

[Rich Z]

I think the point trying to be made is that unless I missed it, this CALC.DAT is not mentioned in the tutorial (at least the PDF version I am using) at all, yet appears to be necessary for this procedure to work. The presumption of a tutorial is that someone using such a document probably doesn't know what they are doing (certainly true in my case) and therefore and errors or omissions are going to throw us for a loop, because what we are trying to learn just will not work. So is such a tutorial really helping newbies all that much?

[joecar]

If CALC.VET and/or CALC.VEN have a red X thru them (on the PIDs tab), then do this:

on each of the pids that has a red X do rightclick->More Info

this will tell you why the pid is invalid (red X), it will tell you which other pid has not been selected...

you then select that other pid and repeat the process.

[joecar]

Yes, maybe CALC.DAT is not mentioned in the tutorial, but the tutorial does mention dynamic air temperature (in the form of the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA)...

and when you study the pid CALC.VET in calc_pids.txt you will see that it uses CALC.DAT....


[ do not go blindly by what a tutorial says... but rather analyze/question why/what is going on until you understand it :) ]

[joecar]

OK yes it is in the text but if its not in the pids slected CalculatedVE, Not corrested does not work.Post a screenshot.


BTW: the pids you should be using are CALC.VET and CALC.VEN... and not CALC.VE.

[EagleMark]

[ do not go blindly by what a tutorial says... but rather analyze/question why/what is going on until you understand it :) ]

Good advice!

I think what happened in this new twist was this was an addition to origanal Calc VE that is under help and tutorials. Do that one first and then read the twist and it all comes together. But they are both differant. So you may get more confused before it comes clear.

[Rich Z]

Yes, maybe CALC.DAT is not mentioned in the tutorial, but the tutorial does mention dynamic air temperature (in the form of the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA)...

and when you study the pid CALC.VET in calc_pids.txt you will see that it uses CALC.DAT....


[ do not go blindly by what a tutorial says... but rather analyze/question why/what is going on until you understand it :) ]

I guess we are not going to agree on what I believe the PURPOSE of a tutorial should be, then, and who the target audience will be for them. Tutorials that are inaccurate or incomplete are a guaranteed way to frustrate exactly the people they are written for to help. Which are precisely the people who won't KNOW what is wrong with the tutorial. All they will know is that it doesn't work.

IMHO.

[COONDOG96]

tHAT PRETTY MUCH SAIDS IT ALL. I was trying to work with the first when I was steared to the new twist. I printed it and through out the first,then found that the twist was writen for a more advanced user and left out a few of the steps. I then dug the old 1 out of the trash and used both. I'm get there now still trying to work out the maps (not getting the #,% and all quit right) but getting there. I'm old school (carbs,jets,timming lights and such) this is a whole new game. I'm not a Programer or Tuner and not very good with computers ( have to put them away sometimes to keep from smashing them) But I'm Trying!!! Joecar Sorry if I sounded negative Not trying to just trying to get a good tune in my truck before I kill the new motor. Thanks to all Robin
Good advice!

I think what happened in this new twist was this was an addition to origanal Calc VE that is under help and tutorials. Do that one first and then read the twist and it all comes together. But they are both differant. So you may get more confused before it comes clear.

[EagleMark]

I think that EFI Live needs some new comer feedback. As I've said before take this as positive comment to improve.

I'm not new to tuning or computers, just new to EFI Live and the frustration with tutorials has been endless as I take them as accurate.

Just to give you 2 new guys a heads up... none of the tutorials are accurate.

[COONDOG96]

aND YES WE ARE ALL going to miss the Weatherman. I never got to chat with him but I realy like what he was trying to do for us newbs.
RIP/WM!!!!

[joecar]

No worries, I understand... there is a very steep learning curve...

when in doubt ask questions, we (myself and others) will be happy to point you to the answer or to look at your logs/tunes...
(depending on time of year, sometimes it's just me, so it takes a bit longer to get back to you, be patient :) )


I renamed these two threads to give a better indication of what they do
(and I made minor edits to clarify points):
Calc-VET : correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-a-single-log) (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-a-single-log))
Calc-MAFT : correcting-VE-and-calculating-MAF-(in-a-single-log) (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16413-Calc-MAFT-correcting-VE-and-calculating-MAF-(in-a-single-log))


in the Calc.VET thread, ignore the attached Calc.VET pdf since it has not yet been updated...
instead use post #1 as the tutorial (read posts #2 onward if you're interested in how it developed);

also ignore any posted Calc.VE pdf tutorial (which was an earlier version of Calc.VET).


Also read these:
CALC-VET-Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16280-CALC-VET-Summary-Notes)
Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)
V7 scantool user manual.pdf (http://download.efilive.com/Documentation/EFILiveV75Scan.pdf)
V7 tunetool user manual.pdf (http://download.efilive.com/Documentation/EFILiveV75Tune.pdf)


Understanding and practicing what's in those 6 links you will be able to tune almost anything;
AutoVE and AutoMAF are special cases of Calc.MAFT and Calc.VET;
wideband only (WO2BEN) is a special case of wideband/LTFT (SELBEN);
Calc.VET and Calc.MAFT can be tailored to suit particular cases (e.g. when OS does not support DYNAIRTMP_DMA).

boost/nitrous applications will require you to look deeper because scaling may be required (and you must be aware of special fuel/spark requirements).

[joecar]

Hi Robin,

Think of PCM as implementing a carburetor/distributor matched pair that work together over the whole operating range

( i.e. with multiple jets/orifces/springs/weights able to cover all conditions )

Now think of EFILive software as the tools to view/edit those.


:cheers:

[joecar]

Yes, we miss Shawn... he really wanted the noob to gain an understanding of tuning :cheers: after talking with Shawn a few times, the noob would advance sufficiently to be able to do a reasonable iteration of Calc.VET :cheers:


Yes, please submit comments, I'll edit post #1 of each thread to make them better.


Yes, any tutorials (typically in pdf form) are inaccurate and out of date... instead use post #1 of those two threads.

[joecar]

I would also suggest:
- use g*K/kPa as VE units (avoid all other units);
- use Metric units for everything other than temperature and velocity;
- for temperature and velocity use Imperial units if you must (see note below);
- make sure the scantool and tunetool are using the same units.


Note: CALC.VET and CALC.MAFT internally use CALC.DAT.K (Kelvin), but you can display CALC.DAT.C or CALC.DAT.F on your charts/gauges.

[Rich Z]

People in upper management of EFILive really need to take heed of a fact that might not have been aired before. Newbies are going to judge the quality of this product based on the results (or lack thereof) that they get out of those tutorials. That will most likely be their first exposure with trying to work with this product, and in some cases might be the ONLY exposure as they get nothing but frustration and headaches and then just say to hell with tuning. So they sell off EFILive for whatever they can get for it, and there goes a first time retail sale for EFILive to whoever buys that abandoned product from a frustrated EX-customer. Heck, I have thrown away programming manuals and guides after finding errors in them. I have abandoned programming languages because the manuals had so many errors, that I had to assume that the product had to be just as chock full of errors as the manuals were. Why invest my time and effort into learning them?

Honestly, if EFILive wants to increase market share in the aftermarket tuning market, I think they need to make a stronger effort to help guide along newbies to work with this product. This forum is a help, but quite honestly, nearly everyone who is going to be interested in getting into this tuning stuff is going to be a guy. And hell, many guys (myself included) would rather get a root canal than to ask for help and directions. We all like to think we're smart enough, with the proper documentation or even an intuitive friendly user product, to be able to figure out anything. It's quite a blow to the ego when a product fights us tooth and nail, refusing to give up the secrets of it's operation willingly, and forces us to ask for help. How many people likely tried to figure this out and just gave up rather than come here asking for help? They are admitting defeat in public. For some people, that's an extremely bitter pill to be asked to swallow.

Quite honestly, I think a better effort can be made with the documentation of EFILive. To knowingly have tutorials available that are outdated, incomplete, or wrong is something any company should be embarrassed about. As part of a marketing strategy to offer a product for retail sale, well, it's not my idea of a good strategy at all.

Seriously, if I were in a hurry to get into this tuning stuff, because my car was DOWN, I would have HAD to give it up and either try HPTuners and hope they were easier to work with. Or just surrender the idea completely and stop wasting money on tools that I couldn't get to work for me, and find someone to just do the tune for me.

Again, in my humble opinion, and offered with no return expected on my 2 cent offering.

[joecar]

I'll pass on your comments.

The tutorials have become outdated as we (the users) did new experiments and read/learnt new stuff...

the software tools have been progressing just fast enough to outpace tutorials/manuals...

and this hobby/business is very much a hackers' universe :)

Yes, you're right, up-to-date tutorials/manuals will present a better image and make a good first time experience, but it takes a great deal of manpower.

[Rich Z]

I'll pass on your comments.

The tutorials have become outdated as we (the users) did new experiments and read/learnt new stuff...

the software tools have been progressing just fast enough to outpace tutorials/manuals...

and this hobby/business is very much a hackers' universe :)

Yes, you're right, up-to-date tutorials/manuals will present a better image and make a good first time experience, but it takes a great deal of manpower.

I understand about the manpower thing. But this is the age of the internet. Word of mouth spreads like wildfire, and can either multiply the dollars spent on advertising, or completely negate it. And let's be frank about this, EFILive is a runnerup on an installed user base compared to HPTuners. Why? Apparently because many people are touting that HPTuners is easier for a newbie to learn. I had to choose between one or the other when I went with a COS tune. And from what I understand, HPTuners locks the PCM to their product once you go to a COS tune with them. This might just be rumor, as I have not verified this. But mainly I went with EFILive because I had a shop destroy three PCMs in a row. Claimed my car was responsible and I had to eat that cost. At that time I had both HPTuners and EFILive. I went to EFILive and explained the situation, and they immediately sent me a replacement license. HPTuners, on the other hand, said tough luck. So to hell with them. If a company doesn't look out for it's customers, I don't have any need to do business with them.

Anyway, off topic, but I want EFILive to be the best there is for tuning. But they need to clean up their act when us newbies buy their product and just want to USE it. Getting started with GOOD tutorials and/or an intuitive learning curve will make all the difference how someone feels about the product a week into ownership.

[slows10]

I guess we are not going to agree on what I believe the PURPOSE of a tutorial should be, then, and who the target audience will be for them. Tutorials that are inaccurate or incomplete are a guaranteed way to frustrate exactly the people they are written for to help. Which are precisely the people who won't KNOW what is wrong with the tutorial. All they will know is that it doesn't work.

IMHO. You are incorrect.This is a pro orientated program, not some spend 5 minute thing and bam your car runs great.You are way behind the times in mechanical and technical aptitude. Basically way way over your head.You better read 4 hours aday on basic efi tuning for a few years then come back and tell us how efilive sucks for the lazy spoon fed types. Your problem is that you dont even know the basics of a pid file. Have you ever read codes out of your ecm with a basic scanner? Have you read live data with a $125 bare bones autozone scanner? Surely you must have purchased one of these 10 or 12 years ago?? If your answer is no then stick a carb on it and go from there. Your biggest problem is you really have no idea on how to ask a question relavant to the subject. A beginners guide to ADVANCED fuel injection may help you some more. You really need to think on the level of advanced fuel injection theory from a technicians standpoint before jumping into tuning.

[COONDOG96]

Can't wait to see the replies to this!!!!

You are incorrect.This is a pro orientated program, not some spend 5 minute thing and bam your car runs great.You are way behind the times in mechanical and technical aptitude. Basically way way over your head.You better read 4 hours aday on basic efi tuning for a few years then come back and tell us how efilive sucks for the lazy spoon fed types. Your problem is that you dont even know the basics of a pid file. Have you ever read codes out of your ecm with a basic scanner? Have you read live data with a $125 bare bones autozone scanner? Surely you must have purchased one of these 10 or 12 years ago?? If your answer is no then stick a carb on it and go from there. Your biggest problem is you really have no idea on how to ask a question relavant to the subject. A beginners guide to ADVANCED fuel injection may help you some more. You really need to think on the level of advanced fuel injection theory from a technicians standpoint before jumping into tuning.

[joecar]

Can't wait to see the replies to this!!!!


lol, good one, I have not seen this much excitement in a while :cheers:

[joecar]

slows10 has some very good points:
- the software tends to be suited toward the more advanced tuner (and the threads may reflect this);
- the new user has a lot of research/reading/practicing to do, especially "outside" reseach (e.g. how injectors really work);
- if the user wants to advance then he/she has to dig into things like calc pids, scantool maps/filters, tunetool units, V2 configuration;
- new users are expected to read the user manual pdf's (these explain a lot of things, like maps/filters);
- new users are expected to reread the various threads (e.g. Calc.VET contains everything that is needed; same with the Idle tuning threads);
[ he maybe wrote with a harsh tone, but we're all big fellows with thick skins ]
[ but then again, you can't easily infer tone from written words/sentences ]


Rich has some good points too:
- the tutorials/manuals have not been updated over time (manpower);
- for a new user it is not necessarily clear which threads/tutorials to follow;
- the organization of various threads could be improved (but this does not become apparent until some forum usage time has elapsed);


But in all fairness, the information is all in the threads...

for example, these threads contain everything you need to tune an NA application:
- Calculating-Injector-Flow-rate (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?4821-Calculating-Injector-Flow-rate)
- Calc-VET : correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-a-single-log) (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-%28in-a-single-log%29)
- Calc-MAFT : correcting-VE-and-calculating-MAF-(in-a-single-log) (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16413-Calc-MAFT-correcting-VE-and-calculating-MAF-%28in-a-single-log%29)
- CALC-VET-Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16280-CALC-VET-Summary-Notes)
- Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

( idle requires a few threads, see post #13 of Collecting-links-to-scattered-material (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?2990-Collecting-links-to-scattered-material) )
( boost/nitrous is similar but requires a bunch of "outside" reading )

[ of course, sometimes it requires a lot of digging to find the information buried in various threads ]

now those threads assume that the user is already familiar with various things:
- EFI acronyms;
- how EFI operates an engine;
- what AFR/timing best suits various engines (e.g. LT1 vs LS1);
- how to diagnose physical problems;
- how to operate the EFILive scantool/tunetool (the user manual pdf's);
- how to operate his/her PC/laptop;
- how to operate his/her vehicle (you'll be surprised);


now if those things are not apparent to the user then there is a lot of research to be done...
on the forum here various questions can be search for or posed/answered...
but a lot of prerequisite knowledge is specifically required/assumed.

[joecar]

In all the excitement, I forgot to say this: pdf's seem to become out-of-date the moment they are published :doh:

[Blacky]

Anyway, off topic, but I want EFILive to be the best there is for tuning. But they need to clean up their act when us newbies buy their product and just want to USE it. Getting started with GOOD tutorials and/or an intuitive learning curve will make all the difference how someone feels about the product a week into ownership.

I understand your frustration about docs and tutorials being out of date. They will always be out of date, that's just the nature of software that changes very quickly. I'll be the first to admit that they are too far out of date and they need to be updated. But right now we have a very large user base that is waiting (and some have been waiting for years) for us to release the latest V8 software. We are pouring 95% of our manpower into the V8 software. The V8 software is (will be) different enough from the V7 software that the tutorials cannot be used with V8. So our decision is, spend lots of effort to get the V7 tutorials up to date, only to throw them away once the V8 software is ready, or spend that resource getting the V8 software ready sooner rather than later.

A little history may put things in perspective. EFILive originally was designed to tune the LS1 gas engines only. Over the years it has been extended, modified, coerced and cajoled into supporting 20-30 other controllers, gas, diesel and hybrid, along with the roadrunner real time tuning. Plus it supported the AutoTap hardware, the first FlashScan V1 hardware and now FlashScan V2 and AutoCal hardware. All those changes required updates to the docs and tutorials, right now we don't have the manpower to keep them up to date. The software has grown very large and unwieldy, the only reason it has not been end-of-lifed yet is because V8 is not ready yet. V8 is a clean re-design and re-implementation of the software taking into account all the things we learned (usually the hard way) over the past 15 years. Once V8 is released our workload will reduce and we will be spending our efforts making sure default settings, user configurations, tutorials, docs etc are the best they can be. The V8 software will not have to evolve as rapidly as the V7 software had to. So it will be more stable with less changes and it will be easier to keep the docs and tutorials up to date.

While the software is in a sort of limbo between V7 and V8 we are spending whatever spare time we can on the forums answering questions in real-time (or as close to it as we can - since we're nearly on the other side of the world).

One last thing, I do chuckle when I hear comments like "upper management". EFILive is a 6 person operation (in Australia and New Zealand) with a bunch of high quality distributors and a resellers that support our product throughout the world (and Joecar who works tirelessly on threads like this). So there is not really any upper management - but hey, I know what you mean, those people in charge (i.e. Ross and me) really need to make sure our new users are not left out in the cold.

Regards
Paul (part owner of EFILive)

[Rich Z]

You are incorrect.This is a pro orientated program, not some spend 5 minute thing and bam your car runs great.You are way behind the times in mechanical and technical aptitude. Basically way way over your head.You better read 4 hours aday on basic efi tuning for a few years then come back and tell us how efilive sucks for the lazy spoon fed types. Your problem is that you dont even know the basics of a pid file. Have you ever read codes out of your ecm with a basic scanner? Have you read live data with a $125 bare bones autozone scanner? Surely you must have purchased one of these 10 or 12 years ago?? If your answer is no then stick a carb on it and go from there. Your biggest problem is you really have no idea on how to ask a question relavant to the subject. A beginners guide to ADVANCED fuel injection may help you some more. You really need to think on the level of advanced fuel injection theory from a technicians standpoint before jumping into tuning.

Oh, I see. Sorry, I wasn't born the genius that you believe you are. You were never a newbie at anything, now were you sport? So according to you no one can decide to jump into this RIGHT NOW with no prior experience and try to learn it without being treated as a piece of crap here? This is the kind of "support" they can expect on the official EFILive forum?

Wonderful.. And I thought outdated tutorials was the biggest problem here. I wondered why this forum is nearly dead, so now I guess I know why.

And for the record, "tuning snob", screw you.

[Lextech]

Hey RichZ,
Stick around. This is a great forum and EFILive is an Excellent Tuning Software. When I first got my V1 in 2006 (I now have the V2), I would spend probably 4 hrs a night studying the tutorials and studying the Forum. I would read a thread and open a tune and follow along in the tune what was being covered in the thread. I still do that. I still have difficulties but that is due mostly to my "toddler like" PC abilities. We all have disagreements at times---That's just life. I don't always agree with my wife but, I have NO intention of getting rid of her.

Jeff

[joecar]

Yes, maybe CALC.DAT is not mentioned in the tutorial, but the tutorial does mention dynamic air temperature (in the form of the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA)...

and when you study the pid CALC.VET in calc_pids.txt you will see that it uses CALC.DAT....


[ do not go blindly by what a tutorial says... but rather analyze/question why/what is going on until you understand it :) ]


I guess we are not going to agree on what I believe the PURPOSE of a tutorial should be, then, and who the target audience will be for them. Tutorials that are inaccurate or incomplete are a guaranteed way to frustrate exactly the people they are written for to help. Which are precisely the people who won't KNOW what is wrong with the tutorial. All they will know is that it doesn't work.

IMHO.Rich,

I'm hoping anyone who reads the Calc.VET thread actually learns what is going on (rather than just learning the tutorial steps).

To do any tuning, following a tutorial is not sufficient... a person needs to understand the underlying principals... the tutorials are out-of-date and inaccurate, but by learning to understand the underlying principals (talked about in the threads I mentioned) tuning can be done with good success in spite of any tutorial; this does require a lot of reading because there are many concepts and and components and subsystems involved.

Don't be upset with what was said, slows10 was harsh in his comment, but he is trying to push you to the next level.

[EagleMark]

I was afriad this was going to turn into a bitch thread and glad to see all the positive attitude toward future. Explination of why tutorials get outdated. Also info on history and why, makes me feel this is still a good investment in money, but more importantly TIME! V8 seems like a cure all so things can be done once and for all. Thanks!


To do any tuning, following a tutorial is not sufficient... a person needs to understand the underlying principals... the tutorials are out-of-date and inaccurate, but by learning to understand the underlying principals (talked about in the threads I mentioned) tuning can be done with good success in spite of any tutorial; this does require a lot of reading because there are many concepts and and components and subsystems involved.
This could be the answer! As someone new approaches this endever they jump in and read tutorials and find frustration, because of all improvements mentioned and then tweaking of the tutorial and no understanding, running blindly to follow tutorial which has no mention of what the calculations are doing.

The cure may be a tutorial on how these calculations for recorded data, WB, settings in definition are used together. One tutorial that condenses actual settings without having to read through endless pages of how they developed! This would be a crib sheet to always look back on to see exactly how the tutorials are putting things together to come up with adjustments! Then they could be understood when working in other vehicles that tutorial was not designed as well. When people learn how, they could understand and develope new.

I'm still working on perfecting the fueling end. But have always wanted to use the same methods to spark and lean cruise!

[COONDOG96]

1442714426OK I'm back did a long log tried to put it in by Tutoral but filter said CALC.VET Reference unselected PID .I moded the tables anyway and reflashed . The truck ran much better . I did another log towing a loaded trailer will post that and the tun in the truck now. I looked at the PID list they are all there whats up with the filters? Also do I need both Dynamic Air Temps (GM.DYNAIR) and(CALC.DAT) it has me at 25 PIDs.

[joecar]

Post a pic of the filter complaining about the unselected pid...

which pid was not selected...?

( if it was a calculated pid, did you know you can goto the PIDs tab and select it, and then go File->Save->Save Log File and that pid will now be remembered by the log file )

[joecar]

Your pid channel count (displayed at bottom of PID tab) is 25...

you don't need GM.CYLAIR_DMA so you can delete it


( you need GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA and CALC.DAT )

[joecar]

Without applying the transient filter, you're applying non-steady-state correction to the MAF and you're calculating VE base on non-steady-state MAF...

while it might seem to produce ok results, it really doesn't;

the filter is important.

[COONDOG96]

HOW DO I DO THAT.I tryed the save thing it will not save I guess it has to be with that log when recorded. I looked I don't see a pid missing. I guess I have to do another log that suck I had a loaded trailer for that one.
Post a pic of the filter complaining about the unselected pid...

which pid was not selected...?

( if it was a calculated pid, did you know you can goto the PIDs tab and select it, and then go File->Save->Save Log File and that pid will now be remembered by the log file )

[COONDOG96]

OK what the F does that mean?????
? bÃ*i nÃ*y mình dã d?c ? dâu dó. Thank you

[COONDOG96]

Got the filters working now Its log time !!!

[joecar]

OK what the F does that mean?????Some spam got thru.

[COONDOG96]

Ok got it working did a cople of logs and tune seems to be much better. here is a log.

[COONDOG96]

tune
Ok got it working did a cople of logs and tune seems to be much better. here is a log.

[joecar]

HOW DO I DO THAT.I tryed the save thing it will not save I guess it has to be with that log when recorded. I looked I don't see a pid missing. I guess I have to do another log that suck I had a loaded trailer for that one.See post #10 here: Hosting-an-Image (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image)

[joecar]

Post your calc_pids.txt file.

[Wolfie]

You are incorrect.This is a pro orientated program, not some spend 5 minute thing and bam your car runs great.You are way behind the times in mechanical and technical aptitude. Basically way way over your head.You better read 4 hours aday on basic efi tuning for a few years then come back and tell us how efilive sucks for the lazy spoon fed types. Your problem is that you dont even know the basics of a pid file. Have you ever read codes out of your ecm with a basic scanner? Have you read live data with a $125 bare bones autozone scanner? Surely you must have purchased one of these 10 or 12 years ago?? If your answer is no then stick a carb on it and go from there. Your biggest problem is you really have no idea on how to ask a question relavant to the subject. A beginners guide to ADVANCED fuel injection may help you some more. You really need to think on the level of advanced fuel injection theory from a technicians standpoint before jumping into tuning.

I haven't posted in quite awhile, because since now that I only drive 1,000 miles a year instead of 120,000... I only tune for fun now...
Anyway after reading here, I have to totally agree with slows10... If someone has no idea of computers, and even less of an idea of tuning... then this product is not for them.
Any tuning or mods to a vehicle requires a decent bit of knowledge. His comments a bit harsh? Maybe, but I sure see where he is coming from.
I've been in the auto/truck business since back in the 70's... and learned my way, from the begining, not in the middle and asking to be hand held and spoon fed...

[joecar]

Hi Wolfie,

That is very true, we need to learn how to use all of our tools...

I'll also add (which is what you alluded to ("decent knowledge")), tuning requires:
- detailed understanding of ICE operation (timing, AFR, intake/exhaust events, cooling),
- detailed understanding/skills in diagnostics/repairs,
- effectively knowledge/use of Windows,
- understanding of lambda/wideband (and how to use the information),
- a few more things.

[COONDOG96]

I think this is it
Post your calc_pids.txt file.

[COONDOG96]

Here is my last log I put COS5 in so I can do some boost logs for CALC.VET. This is the last log I have not loadedit yet does it look right.

[COONDOG96]

This is whats in there now

[COONDOG96]

The Cal I put in it.

[slows10]

Thanks wolfie. I Typed a 5 minute response to your post. Keeps getting wiped out while typing it.

[joecar]

Set B3609 to zeros.

B3616 is set to enable PE at 35% all across... do you want it to enable so easily below 3000 rpm...?

B5913 and B5914 are identical, nulls out knock retard feature, are you sure you want this...?

[joecar]

Thanks wolfie. I Typed a 5 minute response to your post. Looks like the higher ups keep deleting it. Joecar?? come on man.I didn't delete anything...!?


( I don't see any posts being deleted from here )

[joecar]

Here is my last log I put COS5 in so I can do some boost logs for CALC.VET. This is the last log I have not loadedit yet does it look right.


The Cal I put in it.Have you created the SELBEN B5001 map and the VET B0101 map and applied them...?

[slows10]

I didn't delete anything...!?


( I don't see any posts being deleted from here )

Ok no problem just seemed strange.

[slows10]

I didn't delete anything...!?


( I don't see any posts being deleted from here ) Ah it wasnt worth any one reading anyway I guess.

[Blacky]

Ok no problem just seemed strange.

I've deleted a couple of spam posts in this thread - but they were in Vietnamese - you weren't replying in Vietnamese were you? :)

Regards
Paul

[COONDOG96]

Yes I did that before I went to COS5 and got them close before I started getting into boost.

[COONDOG96]

What would be a good safe starting point on B3616?

[joecar]

What would be a good safe starting point on B3616?For boost, something like 1.25 EQ... if your MAF/VE are correct.

[COONDOG96]

Is there a way to get the engine CC to be remimbered and not have to enter it for every log. I've done logs and forgot to put it in and all you get is zeros.

[EagleMark]

In Scantool, Edit, Default Customer details and fill it in.

[COONDOG96]

I have done that 5 or 6 times but its allways blank when I go to do the next log. If I forget the log is junk all zeros.
In Scantool, Edit, Default Customer details and fill it in.

[EagleMark]

Hmmm.. I had that issue and I thought that was the fix? It may be differant PIDS selected, I always use one PID file now and don't have the issue anymore.

What data are you missing that this is needed for? IIRC if it was done to % CC or displacment was needed but if done to VE it was not... Joe will be up soon to help.

[joecar]

I avoid engine displacement altogether by using [g*K/kPa] for VE units... (I completely avoid [%] units).

[joecar]

i.e. goto Edit->Properties and set the VE units to g*K/kPa


and in the scantool, use the CALC.VET/VEN pids with units g*K/kPa (abbreviated "VE").

[COONDOG96]

THANKS DID THAT NOW IT ALL BETTER!!! Here are my last to logs open for all advice I know that I probly have something set wrong. The truck seems to be running better but still getting KR when I roll into it at low RPMs. Trying to get it close so I can take it to the dinno to get the final timing and boost right without taking all day$$$$$$$ Thanks again.
i.e. goto Edit->Properties and set the VE units to g*K/kPa


and in the scantool, use the CALC.VET/VEN pids with units g*K/kPa (abbreviated "VE").

[COONDOG96]

logs

[EagleMark]

I avoid engine displacement altogether by using [g*K/kPa] for VE units... (I completely avoid [%] units).


i.e. goto Edit->Properties and set the VE units to g*K/kPa


and in the scantool, use the CALC.VET/VEN pids with units g*K/kPa (abbreviated "VE").Ah! Now I remeber when you told me the same thing! :anitoof:

[joecar]

lol.

[Blacky]

The default engine size (and other vehicle specific data) can be entered under customer details for each unique VIN.
i.e. Edit->Default Customer Details.

Regards
Paul

[joecar]

COONDOG,

I looked in your tune file... general comments:

A0009: fix the out-of-range cells, set them to 9.9.

A0012,13: fix OOR cells, set them to 511.

B3609: set to zero.

The 105 kPa columns in B0101 and A0009 are different (A0009 is suppose to continue on from B0101).

B5913,14: too much advance for boost.

[COONDOG96]

OKreset all the above. On the timing advance other than on a dino how do I go about getting this set right? Also is there a way to get B0101 and A0009 on the same map so when smothing it does not cause this.
COONDOG,

I looked in your tune file... general comments:

A0009: fix the out-of-range cells, set them to 9.9.

A0012,13: fix OOR cells, set them to 511.

B3609: set to zero.

The 105 kPa columns in B0101 and A0009 are different (A0009 is suppose to continue on from B0101).

B5913,14: too much advance for boost.

[joecar]

Avoid smoothing using the tools... if you really have to smooth, do it by hand, and look more closely at the transient filter conditions.

[COONDOG96]

COONDOG,

I looked in your tune file... general comments:

A0009: fix the out-of-range cells, set them to 9.9.

A0012,13: fix OOR cells, set them to 511.

B3609: set to zero.

The 105 kPa columns in B0101 and A0009 are different (A0009 is suppose to continue on from B0101).

B5913,14: too much advance for boost.

were can I find a good base B5913 to work with?