new to Cummins tuning....

[C Murda]

i have an 08 6.7 and live in a emissions restricted state (MA). i have not yet bought EFI live but i would like to and am of course doing my research on the Cummins version. what i am trying to figure out is how "tuneable" is this software? can i go into the entire cummins pcm and make a complete custom tune? my main concern is emissions system delete support. will this software allow me to run code free ding free after the removal of catalytic converter? DPF? EGR? all, some or none?? i hear that chrysler vehicles are prob some of the worst to tune because of all the restrictions. i have a 2002 camaro with all emissions equipment removed a huge 7.0 motor 550RWHP and it was tuned with EFI Live in speed density rather than the OEM maf tune and it will pass all emissions test with flying colors! the car is straight piped no cats its basically a race car i drive occasionally on the streets and EFI live allowed me to have it tuned and pass emissions.
that being said i am wondering if the same can be done with my Cummins? from what i research it doesnt seem likely so i have to ask why? why cant certain items be "tuned out" like they can in GM vehicles?

[tokymon]

with there software right now you can do the delete the next update they are removing this due to the epa crack down it would take a lot to get a cummins to pass with no dpf/egr

[LReiff]

Diesel emissions testing in most states is not a tailpipe gas test, it's a visual equipment inspection to be sure all oem emissions components are intact and appear to be functioning. EFILive software will give you more than enough tuneability to allow a tailpipe gas test to be passed but the EPA doesn't see it that way.

[C Murda]

with there software right now you can do the delete the next update they are removing this due to the epa crack down it would take a lot to get a cummins to pass with no dpf/egr

so if the next update removes this function is it even worth buying? are we forced to get that update? does it mean i can never recieve any other future updates unless i get screwed and they take that option away???
either way if efi live is going to be screwing people out of full tunability then they can expect their customer list and future customers from the states to say goodbye! epa or no epa i think they should offer it the same as they do in Europe just label as "for off road use only" those magical words allow A LOT to be legal!

[C Murda]

Diesel emissions testing in most states is not a tailpipe gas test, it's a visual equipment inspection to be sure all oem emissions components are intact and appear to be functioning. EFILive software will give you more than enough tuneability to allow a tailpipe gas test to be passed but the EPA doesn't see it that way.

oh i know and have a friend that does inspections... visually i will "pass" without everything but when they plug in to my obd2 port their computer looks for the following to be "ready"
misfire
fuel control
comprehensive components
catalyst
02 sensor
02 sensor heater
EGR

now when i had my friend plug my truck in just to see what i would fail on the only listed section that came up as "not ready" were catalyst, 02 sensor and EGR. the odd thing is i still have my EGR and it is still hooked up as far as i know from visually inspecting.

[tokymon]

the problem with the offroad only phrase is that even the edge racing was for off road only and they were just fined 500,000 and have to buy back all there tuners and as far as i know smarty and h&s have pulled all there products.
you can still get better fuel milage with the dpf and egr functional. idaho rod just poster where they picked up 3 miles to the gallon with dpf present

[LReiff]

Move to New Zealand. ;)

[C Murda]

i may have to sell my newly bought 6.7 and look for a 5.9.... to me its not a matter of just put that crap back on its a matter of being able to be run without stupid USELESS restrictions...

[C Murda]

Move to New Zealand. ;)

so if they wont be doing this restriction over seas then why not just buy the Euro spec version?

[cindy@efilive]

To understand how our software restrictions will impact you, you should read our FAQ here http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?21154-Diesel-tuning-restrictions-for-USA-customers

Cheers
Cindy

[joecar]

i have an 08 6.7 and live in a emissions restricted state (MA). i have not yet bought EFI live but i would like to and am of course doing my research on the Cummins version. what i am trying to figure out is how "tuneable" is this software? can i go into the entire cummins pcm and make a complete custom tune? my main concern is emissions system delete support. will this software allow me to run code free ding free after the removal of catalytic converter? DPF? EGR? all, some or none?? i hear that chrysler vehicles are prob some of the worst to tune because of all the restrictions. i have a 2002 camaro with all emissions equipment removed a huge 7.0 motor 550RWHP and it was tuned with EFI Live in speed density rather than the OEM maf tune and it will pass all emissions test with flying colors! the car is straight piped no cats its basically a race car i drive occasionally on the streets and EFI live allowed me to have it tuned and pass emissions.
that being said i am wondering if the same can be done with my Cummins? from what i research it doesnt seem likely so i have to ask why? why cant certain items be "tuned out" like they can in GM vehicles?You shouldn't be advertising that you able to cheat emissions testing... and thanks for implicating EFILive with your advertised wrong-doings (if you have to get your car tested then you obviously drive it on the street)... posting stuff like this is what prompts the EPA to enforce laws regarding emissions system tampering (and they will have a special treatment for anyone caught cheating the test).


so if the next update removes this function is it even worth buying? are we forced to get that update? does it mean i can never recieve any other future updates unless i get screwed and they take that option away???
either way if efi live is going to be screwing people out of full tunability then they can expect their customer list and future customers from the states to say goodbye! epa or no epa i think they should offer it the same as they do in Europe just label as "for off road use only" those magical words allow A LOT to be legal!EFILive is not screwing anyone... the EPA is suing the maker/seller of any product that has the ability to defeat any emissions system. And off-road vehicles are required to comply with emissions laws (according to what the EPA says).


oh i know and have a friend that does inspections... visually i will "pass" without everything but when they plug in to my obd2 port their computer looks for the following to be "ready"
misfire
fuel control
comprehensive components
catalyst
02 sensor
02 sensor heater
EGR

now when i had my friend plug my truck in just to see what i would fail on the only listed section that came up as "not ready" were catalyst, 02 sensor and EGR. the odd thing is i still have my EGR and it is still hooked up as far as i know from visually inspecting.You don't want to advertise that for your friend's sake.

[cindy@efilive]

so if the next update removes this function is it even worth buying? are we forced to get that update? does it mean i can never recieve any other future updates unless i get screwed and they take that option away???
either way if efi live is going to be screwing people out of full tunability then they can expect their customer list and future customers from the states to say goodbye! epa or no epa i think they should offer it the same as they do in Europe just label as "for off road use only" those magical words allow A LOT to be legal!

It's your decision to buy our product or someone else's, we are not forcing your hand. As I posted earlier on Cummins Forum today, this is the state of play.

Look at what's happened in the last 5 years. Edge was 4 years in the making for last weeks legal decision. SCT, Bullydog and HP Tuners removed their emission stuff a few years ago, Quad just closed their doors, and then there is the pending action against H&S, which if anything like Edge no one will understand the impact for the next couple of years. Throw in the CARB compliance letters every advertiser in Diesel Power got sent 2 years ago and you can see the writing has been on the wall. If you have old copies of Diesel Power, check out the ads from 2 years ago and compare them to today - HUGE changes.

SEMA made it clear years ago that "OFF ROAD USE" was only good if less than 5% of your customer base used that product, anything more and you were dancing on a knife's edge, or needed to prove 100% categorically that EACH and EVERY disclaimer could be supported by confirming DMV records that the vehicle wasn't registered for road use. The Edge judgement detailed something in the vicinity of 5,000 units...the probability of all those being unregistered and not used on public roads is what %?

At the end of the day, this isn't a path we wish to travel, heck we don't even provide tunes! We don't modify any parameters, just provide those parameters to consumers. Consumers need to use their judgement based on their legal jurisdiction to determine what should be modified. Our product is used on 100's of different vehicles, in 100's of legal jurisdictions, and the USA is just one portion of our business. But in order to protect ourselves, we need to protect Americans from themselves at their Government's request. We don't make the laws, like everyone we just want to continue to provide an income to support our families in an industry we love. Times are changing.


Move to New Zealand. ;)
I don't live in New Zealand Lee, so I don't profess to understand their laws, nor do I profess to know and understand the laws here in Australia (where I live), however several local workshops tell me that it's a $10,000 fine per offence to tamper with emissions equipment on vehicles purchased via a dealer here....it's complicated - imports are treated differently as are farm vehicles...

Cheers
Cindy

[joecar]

After the EPA has finished with makers/vendors it will go after individuals... it says so in their various blurb documents... so whatever you do (as an individual or as a company) do not attract their attention.

[LReiff]

I don't live in New Zealand Lee, so I don't profess to understand their laws, nor do I profess to know and understand the laws here in Australia (where I live), however several local workshops tell me that it's a $10,000 fine per offence to tamper with emissions equipment on vehicles purchased via a dealer here....it's complicated - imports are treated differently as are farm vehicles...

Cheers
Cindy

I should have made it a little more clear that I was joking. Thanks for clearing this up.

[WyoFreeride]

EFILive is a great tool, with or without the emissions deleting capabilities. I bought my V2 over a year and a half ago in anticipation of tuning for the 2010 cummins, and am totally fine with waiting until it comes out, and if it ends up untunable like the new duramax, then I still have a great tool for other vehicles. Like others have said, mileage and performance can be improved with everything still there for emission control, just maybe not as easily. The hardware will pay for itself if you take the time to learn how to use it and tune a few trucks. EFI has been very open about all the coming changes, unlike some of the other vendors selling tuning products. I've used some of the 'competing' products and they are years behind in my opinion.

Just my .02

Joe

[KhakiCummins]

EFILive is a great tool, with or without the emissions deleting capabilities. I bought my V2 over a year and a half ago in anticipation of tuning for the 2010 cummins, and am totally fine with waiting until it comes out, and if it ends up untunable like the new duramax, then I still have a great tool for other vehicles. Like others have said, mileage and performance can be improved with everything still there for emission control, just maybe not as easily. The hardware will pay for itself if you take the time to learn how to use it and tune a few trucks. EFI has been very open about all the coming changes, unlike some of the other vendors selling tuning products. I've used some of the 'competing' products and they are years behind in my opinion.

Just my .02

Joe

I agree. We already know that you can write a tune as dirty as you would like. We also know that you can write a clean tune with little smoke. We are still going to be able to get good power out of these trucks. It's going to the be the guys who can write a nice clean tune that is emissions friendly that will be the most successful. They will be able to write a tune that doesn't produce a bunch of soot to plug up the DPF as fast, saving fuel by minimizing regens

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the EPA any more than the next guy but I think that with the right tools, such as EFILive, the industry will continue to grow and be fun.