New to EFILive, Help increasing AFR [Archive]

sonicgroove

February 1st, 2013, 06:56 AM

Hi Shaun,

Yes, the quickest way is to do what you said, make B3618 richer...

at AFR 13.0 the engine might still knock, in which case you will need get closer to 12.6 (for NA).

Note:
at some point you will want to correct the VE/MAF tables (and make sure IFR is correct),
this will make wideband measured lambda equal PE commanded lambda.

Thanks joecar. Do you think it is best to keep the afr equal across the board? say from 3600 and up? or slowly richen it from 5200 up? Between are some ideas, what do you recommend?

LABELS Stock
RPM Values
0 0.81
400 0.81
800 0.81
1200 0.81
1600 0.81
2000 0.81
2400 0.81
2800 0.81
3200 0.81
3600 0.8
4000 0.8
4400 0.8
4800 0.8
5200 0.79
5600 0.78
6000 0.78
6400 0.78
6800 0.78
7200 0.78

LABELS Modified 1 Richer version on right
RPM Values
0 0.81 0.81
400 0.81 0.81
800 0.81 0.81
1200 0.81 0.81
1600 0.81 0.81
2000 0.81 0.81
2400 0.81 0.81
2800 0.81 0.8
3200 0.81 0.79
3600 0.80 0.78
4000 0.79 0.77
4400 0.78 0.76
4800 0.77 0.75
5200 0.76 0.74
5600 0.75 0.74
6000 0.75 0.74
6400 0.75 0.74
6800 0.75 0.74
7200 0.75 0.74

LABELS Modified 2 Richer version on right
RPM Values
0 0.81 0.81
400 0.81 0.81
800 0.81 0.81
1200 0.81 0.81
1600 0.81 0.81
2000 0.81 0.81
2400 0.81 0.81
2800 0.81 0.81
3200 0.81 0.81
3600 0.75 0.74
4000 0.75 0.74
4400 0.75 0.74
4800 0.75 0.74
5200 0.75 0.74
5600 0.75 0.74
6000 0.75 0.74
6400 0.75 0.74
6800 0.75 0.74
7200 0.75 0.74

I understand what you mean about needing to adjust the VE/MAF tables. The dynojet afr is no where near my commands. Your recommending me to adjust to reach ben 1, correct? I will definitely do this once I get a wideband and have more knowledge working with efilive.

BTW what are your thoughts on the large variation between the dynojet afr and my commands? Or are there too many variables to consider that won't clear up until I get a WB? Possible considerations, inaccurate dynojet readings, 2000 head/cam vs 2002 ecu tune, performance mods. Does it matter much if I have converter protection enabled?

-Shaun

ScarabEpic22

February 1st, 2013, 07:09 AM

sonicgroove

February 1st, 2013, 10:24 AM

Before you go back to the dyno, do the Calc.VET on your vehicle. Your MAF and VE tables are off, trying to adjust PE to get what you want is known as "PE raping" and is bad. It doesnt take long to get correct VE and MAF tables using the Calc.VET method, do it then see what your AFR is in PE after that.

You need a wideband as well, you can blanket apply like 10-15% on the VE table and MAF as a temporary stopgap (VERY TEMPORARY) until you get a WBO2. Get one asap.

I am extremely new to efilive and don't think I comprehend enough to attempt calc.vet. Furthermore I can't seem to get the proper PIDs setup and all the calc.vet tutorials seem to be a bit different.

Wouldn't it be okay for me to temp rape the PE until I am ready to calc.vet my setup and/or get a wideband? PE doesn't normally activate until TPS% of 60%. So as long as I stay below that threshold raping the PE shouldn't be that bad right?

I'm sorry for all the questions, still trying to learn. If my knowledge base is at all wrong, please feel free to correct me, thank you.

-Shaun

ScarabEpic22

February 1st, 2013, 11:52 AM

Not really, PE raping will ONLY fix your fueling while in PE. You're still going to be lean all the time unless you're in CL, even then being that lean might max your LTFTs out and not provide enough correction.

If you dont understand the Calc.VET, read the first post in this thread: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-a-single-log). This has ALL the info, including the appropriate calc_pids.txt file (thanks to joecar for keeping it updated). Once you have a WBO2, follow the procedure. I had never tuned a LS1B PCM until 2 years ago, once I got everthing setup and got a good log, I had the VE and MAF completely dialed in.

sonicgroove

February 1st, 2013, 02:04 PM

joecar

February 1st, 2013, 02:57 PM

Hello,

I had my car dyno'd and was not able to do full passes because my car was pinging at the higher RPM range. Per the dyno I am running a bit lean approximately 13.5. I would like to increase fuel from 4000 and up. Can I do this but changing the PE Mod Based RPM? For example change PE Mod Based RPM @ 5200 from .79 to .75? Would this give me approximately 13.0? Or is the process much more complex than this? I don't not have a Wibeband at the moment but working on it.

...

I am extremely new to efilive and don't think I comprehend enough to attempt calc.vet. Furthermore I can't seem to get the proper PIDs setup and all the calc.vet tutorials seem to be a bit different.

Wouldn't it be okay for me to temp rape the PE until I am ready to calc.vet my setup and/or get a wideband? PE doesn't normally activate until TPS% of 60%. So as long as I stay below that threshold raping the PE shouldn't be that bad right?

I'm sorry for all the questions, still trying to learn. If my knowledge base is at all wrong, please feel free to correct me, thank you.

-Shaun

If you're short of time you can just go ahead and "rape" the PE to make it sufficiently rich (12.6 for E00 as measured by wideband) and hopefully this will take care of the ping/knock.

You might want to also make the PE table a little richer down lower... any time the engine sees high load (regardless of rpm) you want to make sure PE is sufficiently rich, and that it enables (you should be able to see it on the dyno shop's wideband).

Keep in mind as was said above, without correcting the VE/MAF tables the airmass model will be wrong (meaning that commanded fuel will be a guess and that you will see a bunch of fueling/spark/idle/driveabilty issues).

sonicgroove

February 1st, 2013, 05:00 PM

If you're short of time you can just go ahead and "rape" the PE to make it sufficiently rich (12.6 for E00 as measured by wideband) and hopefully this will take care of the ping/knock.

You might want to also make the PE table a little richer down lower... any time the engine sees high load (regardless of rpm) you want to make sure PE is sufficiently rich, and that it enables (you should be able to see it on the dyno shop's wideband).

Keep in mind as was said above, without correcting the VE/MAF tables the airmass model will be wrong (meaning that commanded fuel will be a guess and that you will see a bunch of fueling/spark/idle/driveabilty issues).

How different are IFR, VE/MAF tables between a 2000 LS1 and 2002? Since my ECU was reflashed as a 2002, Would copying over a 2000 IFR, VE/MAF table help rich it out and provide a better base for tuning?

-Shaun

joecar

February 3rd, 2013, 04:17 PM

1999/2000 had different injectors/heads/cam than 2001/2002, so there are differences in IFR/VE/timing.

You can copy tables...

copy all the injector tables, the VE tables, the spark tables, and possibly some other tables

( i.e. use the tables that match the physical engine )

sonicgroove

February 4th, 2013, 03:54 PM

Thanks joecar, I don't suppose you could list all the tables I need to copy over? I'm assuming its pretty much all air, fuel, and timing tables. Also would anyone happen to have stock 1999-2000 ls1 pcm calibration data?

-Shaun

joecar

February 4th, 2013, 05:04 PM

There's too many to list, but you don't necessarily need all of them...

you will need any airmass/ve tables, all the injector tables, spark, idle...

if you open 2 instance of the tunetool (one on the 2000 file, the other on the 2002 file), and just walk thru each folder (take your time over a beer)...

joecar

February 4th, 2013, 05:05 PM

Stock files can be found at www.tunefiledepot.com (http://www.tunefiledepot.com)... they're listed under Stock Tunes (by year, os, car, transmission).

ScarabEpic22

February 4th, 2013, 05:30 PM

Joe, could he use one of the 99 Camaro files that have been migrated to the 2002 OS? The 99/00 injectors are the same so it should work, just kill VATS/etc, full flash, then start tuning.

joecar

February 4th, 2013, 05:44 PM

Erik,

Yes, he could, but I can't find them anywhere... those would save him lots of time.

joecar

February 4th, 2013, 05:47 PM

Ah, you know what, I just found them (hmmm, funny I couldn't find them before):

F-car 1999 migrated to 2002 M6 (12212156) (http://www.tunefiledepot.com/calibrations/stock/Chevrolet/1999%20Chevrolet%20Camaro%20Coupe%20Manual%20LS1%2 05.7%20Litre%20(12212156).tun)
F-car 1999 migrated to 2002 A4 (12212156) (http://www.tunefiledepot.com/calibrations/stock/Chevrolet/1999%20Chevrolet%20Camaro%20Coupe%20Automatic%20LS 1%205.7%20Litre%20(12212156).tun)

joecar

February 4th, 2013, 05:52 PM

Erik, you might want to sanity check my links... my coffee is running low, like this slow cucumber -> :cucumber:

sonicgroove

February 5th, 2013, 12:57 PM

Thanks guys you are all extremely helpful. I really wanted to load up the 2000 camaro tune but also noticed it was from a different OS. Then I saw the 1999 tune with the same OS. I wanted to make sure they were the same but after comparing the two I realized they were not. Here is a quick comparison of the Main VE Tables

2000 Camaro M6 LS1 OS 9381344
LABELS Map kPa {link: SAE.MAP}
RPM {link: SAE.RPM} 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 105
400 0.847852 0.918945 0.990234 1.083789 1.139258 1.184180 1.218750 1.242578 1.255859 1.365039 1.389453 1.413867 1.438477 1.462891 1.487305 1.524609 1.574805 1.625195 1.625195
800 0.995313 1.066602 1.137695 1.212305 1.267773 1.312891 1.347266 1.371094 1.384570 1.431055 1.455469 1.479883 1.504492 1.528906 1.553320 1.590430 1.640820 1.691211 1.691211
1200 1.051172 1.163477 1.311914 1.343359 1.374805 1.406250 1.437695 1.469336 1.500781 1.467969 1.493750 1.519531 1.545313 1.571094 1.596875 1.660156 1.700781 1.741406 1.741406
1600 1.118359 1.230664 1.391016 1.421484 1.451953 1.482227 1.512695 1.543164 1.573438 1.523047 1.548828 1.574609 1.600391 1.626172 1.651953 1.698047 1.738672 1.779297 1.779297
2000 1.097852 1.210156 1.423828 1.453125 1.482422 1.511719 1.541016 1.570313 1.599609 1.603516 1.629297 1.655078 1.680859 1.706641 1.732422 1.720508 1.761133 1.801758 1.801758
2400 1.018945 1.280859 1.391211 1.469727 1.535156 1.587500 1.626758 1.652734 1.665625 1.671094 1.690234 1.709375 1.728516 1.747656 1.766797 1.784961 1.816797 1.848438 1.848438
2800 1.034180 1.296289 1.430273 1.510156 1.576953 1.630469 1.671094 1.698438 1.712891 1.724023 1.743164 1.762305 1.781445 1.800586 1.819727 1.839648 1.871289 1.902930 1.902930
3200 1.134180 1.558398 1.495508 1.572461 1.637305 1.690039 1.730859 1.759766 1.776563 1.795313 1.813281 1.831055 1.849023 1.866992 1.884961 1.929102 1.963672 1.998438 1.998438
3600 1.175781 1.599805 1.579102 1.655273 1.719336 1.771484 1.811523 1.839648 1.855859 1.874023 1.891992 1.909766 1.927734 1.945703 1.963672 1.999219 2.033789 2.068359 2.068359
4000 1.217188 1.641211 1.662695 1.738086 1.801563 1.852930 1.892188 1.919531 1.934961 1.952734 1.970703 1.988672 2.006445 2.024414 2.042383 2.069141 2.103906 2.138477 2.138477
4400 1.258789 1.682813 1.746289 1.820898 1.883594 1.934180 1.972852 1.999414 2.014063 2.031445 2.049414 2.067383 2.085156 2.103125 2.121094 2.139258 2.173828 2.208398 2.208398
4800 1.300195 1.724219 1.829883 1.903711 1.965625 2.015625 2.053516 2.079297 2.093164 2.110156 2.128125 2.146094 2.163867 2.181836 2.199805 2.209180 2.243945 2.278516 2.278516
5200 1.341602 1.765820 1.913477 1.986719 2.047852 2.097070 2.134180 2.159375 2.172461 2.188867 2.206836 2.224805 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.279297 2.313867 2.348633 2.348633
5600 1.341602 1.765820 1.913477 1.986719 2.047852 2.097070 2.134180 2.159375 2.172461 2.188867 2.206836 2.224805 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.279297 2.313867 2.348633 2.348633
6000 1.341602 1.765820 1.913477 1.986719 2.047852 2.097070 2.134180 2.159375 2.172461 2.188867 2.206836 2.224805 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.279297 2.313867 2.348633 2.348633
6400 1.341602 1.765820 1.913477 1.986719 2.047852 2.097070 2.134180 2.159375 2.172461 2.188867 2.206836 2.224805 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.279297 2.313867 2.348633 2.348633
6800 1.341602 1.765820 1.913477 1.986719 2.047852 2.097070 2.134180 2.159375 2.172461 2.188867 2.206836 2.224805 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.279297 2.313867 2.348633 2.348633
7200 1.341602 1.765820 1.913477 1.986719 2.047852 2.097070 2.134180 2.159375 2.172461 2.188867 2.206836 2.224805 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.279297 2.313867 2.348633 2.348633
7600 1.341602 1.765820 1.913477 1.986719 2.047852 2.097070 2.134180 2.159375 2.172461 2.188867 2.206836 2.224805 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.279297 2.313867 2.348633 2.348633
8000 1.341602 1.765820 1.913477 1.986719 2.047852 2.097070 2.134180 2.159375 2.172461 2.188867 2.206836 2.224805 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.279297 2.313867 2.348633 2.348633

1999 Camaro M6 LS1 OS 12212156
LABELS Map kPa {link: SAE.MAP}
RPM {link: SAE.RPM} 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 105
400 1.080859 1.086133 1.091602 1.091797 1.132031 1.172266 1.212500 1.252734 1.292969 1.364453 1.389453 1.414453 1.439453 1.464453 1.489453 1.532227 1.585547 1.638867 1.638867
800 1.187500 1.192969 1.198242 1.215430 1.255664 1.295898 1.336133 1.376367 1.416602 1.428320 1.453320 1.478320 1.503320 1.528320 1.553320 1.594141 1.647461 1.700781 1.700781
1200 1.116602 1.209766 1.278516 1.337500 1.386328 1.424805 1.453320 1.471484 1.479492 1.475586 1.500977 1.526563 1.552148 1.577539 1.603125 1.659180 1.700586 1.741992 1.741992
1600 1.110547 1.203711 1.358398 1.417773 1.466992 1.506055 1.534961 1.553516 1.561914 1.533398 1.558984 1.584375 1.609961 1.635547 1.661133 1.694141 1.735352 1.776758 1.776758
2000 1.104688 1.197852 1.398633 1.458398 1.508008 1.547461 1.576758 1.595703 1.604688 1.600977 1.626367 1.651953 1.677539 1.702930 1.728516 1.725000 1.766406 1.807813 1.807813
2400 1.013086 1.254297 1.390234 1.468945 1.534180 1.586328 1.625195 1.650977 1.663477 1.668164 1.687891 1.707813 1.727539 1.747461 1.767188 1.778711 1.812109 1.845313 1.845313
2800 1.044336 1.285742 1.439453 1.518164 1.583398 1.635547 1.674414 1.700195 1.712695 1.724609 1.744531 1.764258 1.784180 1.803906 1.823828 1.842969 1.876367 1.909570 1.909570
3200 1.075781 1.316992 1.488672 1.567383 1.632617 1.684766 1.723633 1.749414 1.761914 1.781055 1.800977 1.820703 1.840625 1.860352 1.880273 1.907227 1.940430 1.973828 1.973828
3600 1.330664 1.764648 1.598633 1.673242 1.734961 1.784180 1.820898 1.844922 1.856445 1.874414 1.892383 1.910352 1.928320 1.946289 1.964258 2.019727 2.054297 2.089063 2.089063
4000 1.283203 1.717188 1.674414 1.748828 1.810742 1.859961 1.896484 1.920703 1.932031 1.952930 1.970898 1.988867 2.006836 2.024805 2.042773 2.082422 2.116992 2.151758 2.151758
4400 1.235742 1.669922 1.750000 1.824414 1.886328 1.935547 1.972266 1.996289 2.007813 2.031445 2.049414 2.067383 2.085352 2.103320 2.121289 2.145117 2.179688 2.214453 2.214453
4800 1.188477 1.622461 1.825586 1.900000 1.961914 2.011133 2.047852 2.071875 2.083398 2.110156 2.128125 2.146094 2.164063 2.182031 2.200000 2.207617 2.242383 2.277148 2.277148
5200 1.141016 1.575000 1.901172 1.975781 2.037500 2.086914 2.123438 2.147656 2.158984 2.188672 2.206641 2.224609 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.270313 2.305078 2.339844 2.339844
5600 1.141016 1.575000 1.901172 1.975781 2.037500 2.086914 2.123438 2.147656 2.158984 2.188672 2.206641 2.224609 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.270313 2.305078 2.339844 2.339844
6000 1.141016 1.575000 1.901172 1.975781 2.037500 2.086914 2.123438 2.147656 2.158984 2.188672 2.206641 2.224609 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.270313 2.305078 2.339844 2.339844
6400 1.141016 1.575000 1.901172 1.975781 2.037500 2.086914 2.123438 2.147656 2.158984 2.188672 2.206641 2.224609 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.270313 2.305078 2.339844 2.339844
6800 1.141016 1.575000 1.901172 1.975781 2.037500 2.086914 2.123438 2.147656 2.158984 2.188672 2.206641 2.224609 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.270313 2.305078 2.339844 2.339844
7200 1.141016 1.575000 1.901172 1.975781 2.037500 2.086914 2.123438 2.147656 2.158984 2.188672 2.206641 2.224609 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.270313 2.305078 2.339844 2.339844
7600 1.141016 1.575000 1.901172 1.975781 2.037500 2.086914 2.123438 2.147656 2.158984 2.188672 2.206641 2.224609 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.270313 2.305078 2.339844 2.339844
8000 1.141016 1.575000 1.901172 1.975781 2.037500 2.086914 2.123438 2.147656 2.158984 2.188672 2.206641 2.224609 2.242578 2.260547 2.278516 2.270313 2.305078 2.339844 2.339844

Is it not possible for me to reflash using the 2000 tune with the different OS? Or am I still better off using the 1999 tune with the same OS?

-Shaun

ScarabEpic22

February 5th, 2013, 01:08 PM

The entire point of using the links Joe posted is to use the NEW 2002 OS and NOT your 99/00 OS. Download the correct tune for your trans (auto/manual), delete VATS, etc then full flash it. Then start tuning it.

And Joe, you're good on the links! :D

sonicgroove

February 5th, 2013, 02:38 PM

I am sorry I am getting lost. I have a 2000 LS1 Drivetrain and ECU. The ecu was reflashed to a 2002 and it was the 12212156 OS. This was for emissions purposes to help legalize my vehicle. I am not sure what the OS was prior because I did not have EFI Live at that time. What I think was suggested by Joe was to load up the tune that best matches my physical hardware which is a 2000 LS1B M6 and begin tuning from there. This is what I would like to do but on tunefiledepot the 2000 ls1b m6 file uses a different OS system. However there is a 1999 LS1B M6 file that uses the same OS as the 2002. Which is what I think he realized and suggested I use instead. My concern was if there was a difference between the 1999 and 2000 tunes and there was which led to my question in post#18.

-Shaun

Edit: Omg I'm losing my mind confusing people and confusing posts. So, scarab, your suggesting I 1999 migrated LS1B M6 file since it uses the new OS and just removed VATS, EGR, etc? However I did a comparison between 2000 and 1999 and it seems there different hence post#18. Should I be worried about these differences between the 1999 vs 2000 tune, or am I still better off compared to the 2000 vs 2002 tune differences.

-Shaun

ScarabEpic22

February 5th, 2013, 03:51 PM

Ok, we didnt know you already had the 2002 OS loaded. If you have the 12212156 OS now, then ignore our last posts. We assumed you had the stock 2000 OS. It doesnt matter what the OS was before at all now, 12212156 is THE one to use.

Joe and I assumed: 2000 OS with VATS, EGR, etc removed.
Actual: 2002 12212156 OS with VATS, EGR, etc removed.

The files we posted are for 99-00 guys who are still running their 99-00 OS and want to migrate to the 2002 12212156 OS, basically a forum member took the stock 12212156 OS and ported the 99-00 values into it so anyone wanting to do this swap has 1 less step (copying the 99-00 tune to the 02 one).

Dont worry about the 99-00 differences, since you have a 00 engine compare that with the 2002 OS.

Hopefully that clears it up a bit.

sonicgroove

February 5th, 2013, 06:10 PM

Yes, Actual: 2002 12212156 OS with VATS, EGR, etc removed is what I currently have along with the following modifications:

2000 Camaro Z28 M6
LS6 Intake Manifold
K&N Intake
Custom 3" Magnaflow Exhaust w/ EGR/AIR Delete

If I understand correctly, you are suggesting I ignore the differences between the 1999 tune and the 2000 tune because the difference is minuscule and would be more or less be irrelevant. Then move on to using the migrated 1999 tune from filedepot because it should provide a better base for tuning since it more accurately matches the physical characteristics of my engine? So in short this is what I should do...

Acutal: 2002 OS with 2002 Tune
Reflash with migrated 1999 Chevrolet Camaro M6 12212156 Calibration Tune from Tunefildepot
Change VIN to 2002 Tune
Remove VATS, EGR, CAGS, etc.
Begin Tuning from here.

-Shaun

ScarabEpic22

February 5th, 2013, 09:53 PM

I would compare a 2000 Camaro file to the current 02 OS you have and change it accordingly (VE and spark tables mostly), then Calc.VET it and go from there.

sonicgroove

February 6th, 2013, 08:04 AM

Is there a particular reason you suggest to compare the 02 to the 2000 vs the 1999 and 2000?

-Shaun

ScarabEpic22

February 6th, 2013, 09:10 AM

Because you have a motor out of a 2000, not a 99. The end goal is to have the 2002 OS with all the settings of your 2000 OS (that matches your engine). Then, you can proceed to tune your vehicle.

joecar

February 6th, 2013, 10:46 AM

Run the migrated file and see how it goes (the differences are small enough to be safe).

sonicgroove

February 6th, 2013, 11:22 AM

I already copied over everything I could from the 2000 calibration to the 1999 migrated file. Everything emissions related was changed to the 2002 settings. Some tables could not be copied over because some setups used different calculations on there maps not to mention there were extra tables between the two. I hope this doesn't matter considering the difference between the two calibrations are minor.

I plan to pick up a NGK AFX today, any thoughts on running this wideband with efilivev2?

On a side note, I really wish we could compare calibrations from different operating systems. It would have been nice to create a script and run it.

-Shaun

joecar

February 6th, 2013, 11:29 AM

NGK will connect to V2 using analog interface...

Look at decal on lower edge on back of your V2, see orange connector, labelled AD1+ and AD1-, your wideband signal output and signal ground connect here.

sonicgroove

February 6th, 2013, 05:20 PM

Loaded up that calibration. Runs just as smooth as the previous setup however still get knock readings on the log files. I have no way to measure the afr to determine if I'm still running rich but I did buy the ngk afx. Going to try and get it installed sometime this week and get some logging done and perform a calc.vet

-Shaun

joecar

February 7th, 2013, 08:55 AM

Post some log files (showing knock).

sonicgroove

February 7th, 2013, 11:38 AM

14527

Here is a log, shows partial thottle and PE for one gear. Not too much but still shows the KR.

-Shaun

sonicgroove

February 7th, 2013, 02:16 PM

Btw, should I mount my ngk precat drivers side or postcat? Its drivers side that runs lean in some cases, correct?

-Shaun

joecar

February 7th, 2013, 02:37 PM

Those two KR instances do not look like real knock (does not have the characteristic sawtooth shape)... we're you able to hear it knock (but that's not conclusive)...?

joecar

February 7th, 2013, 02:40 PM

Reduce the pid channel count (see bottom of PIDs and Data tabs) to 24 channels by deleting the pid GM.AFR...

this will double the sampling rate (10Hz vs 5Hz).

joecar

February 7th, 2013, 02:41 PM

Postcat.

Either side... try each side separately and see what it reads.

sonicgroove

February 7th, 2013, 05:13 PM

Its really hard to hear it from the cabin. I was only able to hear it during the dyno and that was with the hood up and me standing right next to the engine. I will tap a hole and mount it on the drivers side wherever I have space since I hear the drivers since has a tendency to run lean.

I am trying to setup my pid but am confused while following the calc.vet tutorial since I am using an ngk analog wb. I copied the pid.txt file but was not sure if some of these calc.pids will still be useful to me or if all of them should still be logged. I was thinking the ngk analog pids would have to be used rather than the serial wb pids and a new calc pid used in its place. Without knowing the minimum pids needed while using a ngk analog wb, keeping channel count below 24 is getting difficult without sacrificing "mandatory" pids or pids I really want to record. Could you help me understand pid.txt setups and possibly direct me to the appropriate pid layout.

-Shaun

joecar

February 7th, 2013, 05:33 PM

The NGK wideband does not support serial comms (that I'm aware of), so you have to use the analog connection;

this means that you have to edit the calc_pids.txt file as follows:

in CLC-00-110 replace "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{EXT.WO2LAM1}" with "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_NGK1}/14.57" (use Notepad to do the edit)...

this allows you to use the pid CALC.WO2BEN with your NGK

( read what the NGK user manual says regarding lambda )

joecar

February 7th, 2013, 06:21 PM

Extract (unzip):
- vdash.calc.vet.ngk.2.zip to VDash
- pids.calc.vet.ngk.2.zip to PIDs
- maps.calc.vet.zip to Maps

Copy to User Configuration:
- calc_pids.txt
- Filters.txt

sonicgroove

February 7th, 2013, 06:55 PM

JOE! Your awesome dude, thanks for setting me up. I really wish I knew how to make those calc text files to setup calc pids but I think that is far, above, and beyond my knowledge base. Even setting myself up to run a simple calc.vet is overwhelming for me. I really need to go back to the basics and take the time to read the manuals and everything else. I really do appreciate your time and patience in helping me. Thanks again. I guess all that is left for me to do this log and study up then start tuning (if I know how, lol). Actually its more like, raise car 1" more, install ngk powerdex, calibrate, load up, efi, and log for 30mins or however long laptop will last. I definitely need to catch up on some reading as well.

-Shaun

joecar

February 7th, 2013, 07:37 PM

Let me know if there are any problem with those files/pids/charts/maps. :)

The V7 scantool/tunetool user manual pdf's have a lot of useful information.

Read post #1 of the Calc.VET thread (and anything it links to).

[ in the calc_pids.txt file I posted above, I defined CLC-00-110 as "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.WB.LAM}"
where CALC.WB.LAM is defined as "{CALC.AFR_NGK1}/14.57" ]

[ note: when editing calc_pids.txt always leave at least 2 blank lines at the end ]

sonicgroove

February 10th, 2013, 08:13 PM

So my ntk sensor is dead... and couldn't log any information. Been waiting for the weekend to be over so I can contact NGK and see if I could get a replacement...

-Shaun

sonicgroove

February 12th, 2013, 12:39 AM

So my car is definitely knocking. While I was logging I was able to hear the pinging through the cabin. My passenger confirmed this. I have two logs. I would appreciate it if you would take a look and your thoughts would be appreciated.

14554 14555

Joe, the calc pids you setup for me is already considering stoich of 14.57, correct? Since it based on lambda and a stoich of 14.57 all I need to do is apply the logged averages to the tune by pasting and multiplying with labels per the calc.vet tutorial?

Also for some reason while the analog pin is connected to the V2 device via AD1 and I click "start recording" I get an error report. If remove the analog pin the error report will not prompt and I can begin recording. Once recording is initiated I can connect the analog connection to the V2 device via AD1 and efilive will start to read the wb data. Is this how it is suppose to operate or is something wrong? Attached is the error report.

14553

On a side note, I did try to run just the 1999 migrated tune and the car would not even hold idle. So I am stuck with the tune I have currently and modifying it accordingly.

-Shaun

joecar

February 13th, 2013, 05:20 AM

I've been out of town a few days, I'll catch up later today.

Yes, your calc_pids.txt file is setup for calc.vet tutorial using your NGK wideband (14.57 stoich).

Do what you did to get around the analog logging error... it should be fixed in the new software update: EFILive-Pre-Release-06 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?21584-EFILive-Pre-Release-06)

sonicgroove

February 13th, 2013, 08:31 AM

BTW, when logging I should be following these tips from CALC.VET summary, correct?

III. CALC.VET Tuning Tips

1. B0701: Disable Catalytic Converter Protection (Done, re-enable after logging correct?)
Insures accurate stoich and PE mode/WOT Fueling

2. B0120: Change RPM Threshold for Airflow Calculation from 4000 to 400 (Done, re-enable after logging correct?)
Eliminates any Airflow Correction from the VE Table

3. B3308: Disable DFCO: Change B3308 (M6) to 140C Change B3313 to 140C (3308 is already 140 so just need to change 3313 from -30 to 140?)
Accurate fueling computations

4. B4105: O2 Switch-points to 450 Millivolts (For this part do I change all cell values to 450?)
Smoother MAF & VE Table

5. B3618: PE Modifier Based on Rpm (EQ): 1.16 (Set all values to 1.16? If so, permanent correct?)
Safe adequate Fueling regardless of Fuel Type

6. B3616: PE Enable: make sure PE enables as load becomes significant (Permanently Done, Correct?)
(e.g. below 60% TP below 3200 rpm, 35% TP above 3200 rpm).

7. B3608 and B3609: PE Delay: set these to zeros. (Permanently Done, Correct?)

Then after tuning according to the log reset values to default?

-Shaun

joecar

February 13th, 2013, 10:36 AM

See comments inline...

BTW, when logging I should be following these tips from CALC.VET summary, correct?

III. CALC.VET Tuning Tips

1. B0701: Disable Catalytic Converter Protection (Done, re-enable after logging correct?) (re-enable only if you have cats)
Insures accurate stoich and PE mode/WOT Fueling

2. B0120: Change RPM Threshold for Airflow Calculation from 4000 to 400 (Done, re-enable after logging correct?) (yes, re-enable)
Eliminates any Airflow Correction from the VE Table

3. B3308: Disable DFCO: Change B3308 (M6) to 140C Change B3313 to 140C (3308 is already 140 so just need to change 3313 from -30 to 140?) (yes)
Accurate fueling computations

4. B4105: O2 Switch-points to 450 Millivolts (For this part do I change all cell values to 450?) (yes)
Smoother MAF & VE Table

5. B3618: PE Modifier Based on Rpm (EQ): 1.16 (Set all values to 1.16? If so, permanent correct?) (yes)
Safe adequate Fueling regardless of Fuel Type

6. B3616: PE Enable: make sure PE enables as load becomes significant (Permanently Done, Correct?) (yes)
(e.g. below 60% TP below 3200 rpm, 35% TP above 3200 rpm).

7. B3608 and B3609: PE Delay: set these to zeros. (Permanently Done, Correct?) (yes)

Then after tuning according to the log reset values to default? (yes, only items 1, 2, 3 above)

-Shaun

joecar

February 13th, 2013, 10:38 AM

Make sure you distinguish between EQR and Lambda (don't get them confused, they are the mathematical inverse of each other).

sonicgroove

February 13th, 2013, 04:13 PM

Unfortunately I already made adjustments per log 3 which did not have any of those tips implemented but still went ahead and applied those tips and created a 4th log. The MAF and VE tables have been adjusted accordingly. I am however still knocking pretty hard at partial throttle to WOT. There are rare cases where there is no knock or barely any knock, but for the most part KR reads from 2-8 at its highest. More common is 2-4. I blended the tables by hand and tried as much possible to stay close to the stock table appearance. At what point do I consider my tables tuned or if I am making progress or if I am just screwing everything up. How would you suggest I go about removing the knocking?

This the log that I did not apply calc.vet tips.

14570

This is my latest log with calc.vet tips applied.

14571

Here are shots of my MAF and VE tables.

1457214573

Thanks,

-Shaun

joecar

February 13th, 2013, 04:28 PM

I'm still running behind (I have not caught up yet)...

Check inside the intake manifold for presence of oil (check if it is pooling on its floor)... check the PCV plumbing for presence of oil.

Do spark plugs show evidence of carbon deposits on combustion chamber walls...?

sonicgroove

February 13th, 2013, 04:34 PM

Not a problem at all joe, please take your time to address all previous posts and tend to mine at your convenience. I do appreciate your taking the time to keep up updated along with some suggestions. Thanks.

-Shaun

joecar

February 13th, 2013, 04:37 PM

Your IAT is quite high (pulling in hot air from engine bay), this can also induce knock.

joecar

February 13th, 2013, 04:39 PM

You might want to enable DFCO (wideband shows going rich on decel).

joecar

February 13th, 2013, 04:43 PM

Also, your engine is overheating 239+°F, this also contributes to knocking.

joecar

February 13th, 2013, 04:48 PM

So you can hear it spark knocking (not some mechanical interference, like exhaust pipe banging floor)...?

sonicgroove

February 13th, 2013, 06:44 PM

Your IAT is quite high (pulling in hot air from engine bay), this can also induce knock.

You might want to enable DFCO (wideband shows going rich on decel).

Also, your engine is overheating 239+°F, this also contributes to knocking.

So you can hear it spark knocking (not some mechanical interference, like exhaust pipe banging floor)...?

Yeah, my IATs are pretty high. I just have a short ram setup and all the heat from the motor just radiates underneath. I need to setup some sort of cold air/vented box intake setup.

I also noticed that while driving but it should still be enabled? The timer was set to 5, I changed it to 0 per the 2000 calibration settings. Would this cause the rich deceleration?

To try and hit those cells in the higher RPM ranges I was riding on 3/4 gear on the freeway for a while to try and get cell counts as high as possible. I currently have a Taurus fan with a 1986 Corvette radiator, perhaps its not up to the task of cooling and may require an upgrade.

I think I am pretty sure its pinging I am hearing. I hear a "clicking" sound that seems to emanate from the upper portion of the engine bay. Almost like small rocks hitting the car.

Any thoughts on VE and MAF tables? Am I heading toward the right direction? Do you believe cooler tempts would fix the knocking problem?

-Shaun

joecar

February 14th, 2013, 07:26 AM

I'm still catching up...

post screenshots of your CALC.VET and CALC.SELBEN maps.

joecar

February 14th, 2013, 07:35 AM

You can tell when it is going right when you see CALC.VET and CALC.VEN converge, and CALC.SELBEN be 1.00+/0.02, and LTFT's be zero (or slightly negative) mostly.

sonicgroove

February 15th, 2013, 03:50 PM

I think I may be tuning with a faulty wideband, it is occasionally throwing a sen# error. I am speaking with a NGK rep via email right now and hope to resolve this. It seems like every time I log the data has been throwing me back and forth. I will be getting a replacement next week.

On a side note, do you think I should be calibrating my MAF? My maf is stock and unmodified. Also, is the calc.vet map values dependent on my analog wideband? because connected or not, it still produces values. I wouldn't think any values would appear unless the wideband was connected since the whole point of calc.vet is to fine tune afr based on the external analog wb02 I have setup.

Here are pictures of the selbens and calc.vet maps.

14580
14581

-Shaun

joecar

February 15th, 2013, 05:33 PM

Shaun,

Yes, correct the MAF since moving the MAF and duct from the original vehicle introduces a change in how the MAF reads.

CALC.VET depends on CALC.SELBEN;

CALC.SELBEN depends on CALC.LTFTBEN in CL and on wideband when not in CL;

so when the wideband is removed, CALC.SELBEN will equal CALC.LTFTBEN in CL and garbage outside CL...

so CALC.SELBEN and CALC.VET will show values when the wideband is not present (they will be valid value only where CALC.CL = 1).

joecar

February 15th, 2013, 05:34 PM

Ask the NGK rep how to calibrate/validitate the wideband output signal (over its output range)...

sonicgroove

February 27th, 2013, 04:56 PM

joecar

February 27th, 2013, 06:24 PM

So I finally got the wideband sensor errors fixed. I have a few questions if you don't mind answering.

1. Is it possible to do analog wideband data logs without the need of a laptop? I really would like to tune based off a single 2-4hr log. My current laptop dies after an hour and I am too lazy to buy a new one. (Damn performance laptops...)
Yes. Do you have FlashScan V1 or V2...? Both support black box logging. V2 also supports black box flashing.

2. Just for clarification, by increasing values in main ve table the ecu thinks more air is available and therefore increases fuel output? So essentially increasing the main ve table riches afr? I ask this because if the following is true it seems as if my logs keep telling me I am lean and I need to go richer. I really want to go stoich on everyday driving maybe even a bit leaner to (14.6-15.0) and have cruise between 15 and 15.5 to maximize fuel economy.If the MAF was disabled/failed, then yes, increasing the VE table would cause more fuel to be added (by virtue of commanding the same AFR as before... i.e. PCM calculates airmass, looks up commanded AFR, and from these calculates the fuelmass needed to produce that AFR).

But if running with the MAF, then the VE table is used only during transient airflow for rpm below B0120... otherwise the MAF is used to calculate airmass... so increasng both MAF and VE would cause more fuel...

BUT note that in closed loop, the VE/MAF are used to calculate the airmass and consequently the fuelmass, but LTFT trimming adjusts the fuelmass on top of the calculation...

in Closed Loop the commanded AFR is stoichimetric, your wideband should report Lambda 1.00 (which corresponds to the fuel's stoichiometric AFR)...

this comes back to this question: how do you calibrate/verify the wideband sensor so you know if it is correct or if it has some offset...?

Ask the NGK rep how to calibrate/validitate the wideband output signal (over its output range)...
Could you clarify this a bit more? Thank you.
What can you do to verify that it produces the correct output... e.g. in CL (commanding stoichiometric) you should see stoich AFR.

sonicgroove

February 27th, 2013, 09:33 PM

There is a calibration knob on the back of the unit that helps calibrate the sensor on free air. Installation instructions includes this. Basically it states to dangle unit in air. Let sensor warm to operating temp. After the allotted recommended time (approximately 5-30 minutes) adjust knob on back until box displays Cal-. Afterwards the unit should be calibrated. There is a common procedure that uses air vs fuel soaked napkins/rag to test the sensor but I don't think that deals with calibration. Is this what you are referring to? Or is it something more specific/accurate?

I rarely see lambda 1 in my logs rather in steady driving I am seeing .97/.98 which is richer than I'd expect.

Should I be changing the fuels stoich AFR (B3601) to match my WB02? Currently its the stock 14.63. Should I change it to 14.57? Or should this not matter?

-Shaun

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 04:55 AM

Yes, that is what I'm referring to, and also to test it by wrapping in a rag sprayed with brake cleaner (moderate spray, not soaked).

You see lambda 0.97-0.98 while in closed loop...?

Use a fuel alcohol test kit ($30 from Summit) to test the fuel in your tank... the kit comes with a chart to lookup the stoich AFR... enter this AFR in B3601.

sonicgroove

February 28th, 2013, 09:19 AM

This is the only fuel test I could find on summit for $15. Is this what you were suggesting I get?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-36-e85

Yes, in closed loop. IE scan logs showing CL of 1.

I have flashscan v2. I was trying to setup with my analog wb02 but could not find out how. It is really annoying datalogging with my laptop as it onnly lasts for 45min to 1hr. I have a 32gb SD card that I would love to use to log a single 2-4 hour file on.

-Shaun

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 11:29 AM

That's not quite the one... the one I saw previously was similar but came with a small business card sized laminated chart showing stoich AFR for various alcohol percentages.

Either way, the stoich AFR can be googled, so any test kit that tells you the percent alcohol will work.

Someone showed me a $6 test kit today: cheap alcohol/gasoline test kit (http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=18454&utm_source=googlepla&utm_medium=cse&id=42276390265&gclid=CISY3-SF2rUCFYdxQgodeioAuQ)

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 11:33 AM

V2

Firstly, what firmware version does your V2 have...?

If it is 2.7.35 then continue... see this: Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?20699-Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch)

you will use the V8 S&T software to configure BBx on your V2 for logging/flashing your specific PCM (which is LS1B).

sonicgroove

February 28th, 2013, 03:45 PM

Firmware Version 2.07.35

I followed those instructions but when it came to serial i/o I could not find ngk afx. Is it not possible to log wb02 since I am using an analog wb sensor?

Wait, this just crossed my mine just because v2 can be used for logging doesn't mean it can perform calc.vet, does it?

-Shaun

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 09:01 PM

Hi Shaun,

The NGK wideband does not have a serial comms capability, so FlashScan V2 does not have serial comms support for it (the NGK).

( i.e. the NGK connects to V2 using the analog voltage interface )

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 09:03 PM

...
Wait, this just crossed my mind just because v2 can be used for logging doesn't mean it can perform calc.vet, does it?

-ShaunShaun,

V2 can be used for logging your NGK (via analog interface) and can be used for doing Calc.VET (see section II of post #1 of the Calc.VET thread)

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 09:22 PM

Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-8in-single-log (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-%28in-single-log%29)

. . .

II. PROCEDURE for ANALOG WIDEBAND or V1

To obtain LAMBDA from an analog wideband, divided wideband AFR divided by the wideband's assumed stoich AFR.

Method 1:
Using NGK AFX as example (NGK assumes stoich to be 14.57):
edit CALC.WO2BEN1 (CLC-00-110) to "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_NGK1}/14.57"

Method 2:
Using LC-1 as example (LC-1 assumes stoich to be 14.7):
define CALC.LAMBDA (a new CLC, say CLC-00-100) to be "{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7"
edit CALC.WO2BEN1 (CLC-00-110) to be "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.LAMBDA}"

or simply combine those (i.e. same as method 1):
edit CALC.WO2BEN1 (CLC-00-110) to be "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7"

. . .

Also see post #37 above:

The NGK wideband does not support serial comms (that I'm aware of), so you have to use the analog connection;

this means that you have to edit the calc_pids.txt file as follows:

in CLC-00-110 replace "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{EXT.WO2LAM1}" with "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_NGK1}/14.57" (use Notepad to do the edit)...

this allows you to use the pid CALC.WO2BEN with your NGK

( read what the NGK user manual says regarding lambda )

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 09:30 PM

Once you have your V2 configured for your PCM (i.e. in V8 S&T, goto BBx, on Scan tab edit pidlists, on Tune tab edit PCM), you can use the V2 menu to select a pid list, and to start logging.

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 09:47 PM

BTW: I would recommend updating the V7/V8 software to builds 222/215 from here: EFILive-RC-1-%28March-01-2013%29 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?21842-EFILive-RC-1-%28March-01-2013%29)

and update the V2 firmware to newer 2.7.35 (same version number, but updated firmware)...

this has a fix for the analog logging error.

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 09:52 PM

More info on BBL/BBF:

showthread.php?14351-BBL-PIDs-V2 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14351-BBL-PIDs-V2&p=128782&viewfull=1#post128782)
showthread.php?13841-What-is-BBL (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?13841-What-is-BBL)
showthread.php?13836-New-V2-help-find-exlporer (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?13836-New-V2-help-find-exlporer&p=123595&viewfull=1#post123595)
showthread.php?15492-V2-BBL-saving-log-data (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15492-V2-BBL-saving-log-data&p=136965#post136965)

joecar

February 28th, 2013, 09:55 PM

Here is my Options.txt specific for logging/flashing my LS1B (from V8 S&T->BBx->Scan): 14665

the file Options.txt is located in My Documents\EFILive\V8\Config.

sonicgroove

March 1st, 2013, 08:42 AM

Joe, thanks for all the great information on BBX logigng. I was still curious as to whether bbx can log calc.pids? My question was weather or not I could do calc.vet without datalogging using a laptop. In otherwords, will the data from bbx logging include calc.selbens and cal.vet map information?

-Shaun

joecar

March 1st, 2013, 08:59 AM

BBL does not log calc pids... but when you view the log in the V7 scantool, you can select those calc pids (and save them into the log file)...

in fact, in the BBL config, you can name which calc pids you want to become selected when you later take the log to the V7 scantool...

in V8 S&T, goto BBx, goto Scan, look at the V7 button.

sonicgroove

March 1st, 2013, 09:12 AM

I see, so after logging the necessary pids and transferring the data to a PC I can re-plot the data with calc.pids selected which will pull the calculated data and display it on the map tables so I can tune via calc.vet?

-Shaun

joecar

March 1st, 2013, 10:38 AM

sonicgroove

March 1st, 2013, 10:43 AM

Joe, I think you deleted my duplicate post which I edited, haha. In anycase I just wanted to clarify with you regarding your options.txt file, which btw is awsome and thanks, but is the calc.vm pidlist the pids I need for perform a calc.vet/maf? Because I also see a calc.ve and calc.maf but assumed that were specific and the vm was for both?

-Shaun

joecar

March 1st, 2013, 10:45 AM

Oh, sorry, it looked the same to me...

joecar

March 1st, 2013, 10:47 AM

joecar

March 1st, 2013, 10:48 AM

Shaun,

Are you in So.Cal...?

Did you get your RX7 thru smog testing, if so how did it go (what did you do about exhaust system)...?

sonicgroove

March 1st, 2013, 11:25 AM

Yes I am in SoCal. I haven't had the car legalized yet. I have been too damn lazy to connect the air pump. My plan is to play it dumb when I go to see the ref. I am using a stock ecu hence efilive. I have a 2000 ls1 but setting it up as if it were a 2002. Which did away with egr. So I have 2002 exhaust manifolds and an ls6 intake to match. I am running the stock cats from a 2000 camaro I had to cut and reweld the piping a bit to make it fit but the cats and o2 sensors are more or less at factory locations. I went to a buddys smog shop to test the vehicle if it would pass and it did but I was not convinced yet. I built a custom exhaust and ran additional high flow cats which I will claim are "resonators." With 4 cats on the vehicle I very confident I will pass smog with flying colors. With efilive I got all SRT to state ready. I will claim I have the fuel pressure sensors installed in the tank and the stock camaro evap mounted under the chassis next to the diff which will be covered by an aluminum sheet. As far as intake goes I bought the factory intake box but decided to go with the carb legal K&N intake. It wouldn't fit as it was intended for obvious reasons so i just set it up as a short ram intake. I make a shroud for the radiator to mimic k&ns radiator shroud and put the carb sticker on that. I am currently in the process of isolating the intake by creating a box. This was all planned out after speaking with the ref over the phone. He said he has seen his fair share of ls1 rx7 come in. He sounded like he would be pretty lenient on some situations. For example if my makeshift intake system won't work I could just come in hoodless with the stock camaro airbox intake. This is what some of the previous cars he passed did. Regarding the exhaust he said if stock cats are used and their distance has not change more than a few inches from the stock location then anything afterwards doesn't matter. So you could run any custom exhaust setup after the cats. One of my concerns include them seeing a 241 head instead of the expected 243.

Hope this answers your questions.

-Shaun

joecar

March 1st, 2013, 12:32 PM

Is the ref expecting to see 241 heads...?

sonicgroove

March 1st, 2013, 02:46 PM

I don't know and I hope not.

So I did a quick bbx log around the neighborhood just to see how it works and this prompted yet more questions but I do have to say, the buzzing sound the v2 makes when reading positive on KR was surprising and a nice add-on. First up I could not display wb data on the v2 but I guess I kind of expected that since it appears F1 scan tools > F2 data logging > F3 display w02 is for serial devices only. Moving on I loaded up the log and I tried to apply the transient filters but am unable to do so. According to efi scan tools it is because I did not log sae.ect which I know I did. Furthermore some data is not being logged. On dashboard B it is just crossed out. To begin with what I did was I customized the ect pid to display F rather than C and hoped it would help. I also removed one of the pids and replaced it with ext.ad1. Saved the txt file and programmed it to the v2. Did another quick run loaded up the log and after selecting the appropriate calc.pids I was able to get dat, wb lam, and dat, cylair, and vedca to be unstriked and display data. ECT was also displaying data. However I could not get the heater sensors to display data but I figure ho2s11 and 21 will be striked out because those pids can't be logged without going over the v2 module channel count of 24?

Regardless of the ho2 data if am I logging the necessary pids to perform a bbx calc.vet/maf tune I needn't worry about the rest of the data right? I can go ahead and tune my ve and maf tables without the striked out data?

-Shaun

joecar

March 2nd, 2013, 02:14 PM

Shaun,

I would not mention the heads to him.

I would not mention that you have PCM editing software, either.

Lol, the buzzing is very helpful, you can configure it on any condition you want to be alerted, I find it useful for presence of KR.

Yes, that's for serial wideband... you can still display analog wideband raw voltage (EXT.AD1) which mentally you know what voltage corresponds to stoich and PE.

You don't really need SAE.ECT because GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA is used for Calc.VET and Calc.MAF (this is the temperature the PCM uses internally for air calcs).

Use the pidlist calc.ve to include HO2Sx1. The pidlists calc.maf and calc.vm replace HO2Sx1 with other pids (yes, to keep the channel count less/equal to 24).

For the red X pids, on each one do rightclick->More Info and see what other pids it says it requires to be selected, and go select those, do this until all the red X's are gone...

and then save the pids to file File->Save->PIDs.

Post your log file...

Post screenshots of the PID tab, the Data tab, and Dash B.

sonicgroove

March 2nd, 2013, 07:13 PM

Hey Joe,

I definitely won't be mentioning the efilive nor the heads, hence the idea of playing dumb, haha. I hope it works... really do...

The buzzing is definitely awesome, but it continues to remind me of how much knock my car is registering... ><

Thats pretty much what I've been doing to get the red x's to go green with the exception of saving the pidlist. Now it is saved, lol.

I got to say joe... I am starting to get really frustrated with calc.vet. I don't know why my calc.vet map keeps suggesting to go richer or whatever its doing... I apply the filters yet after every log, in cells I think should go lean, it tells me I need to go rich! I really want to kick myself. Is there something I am missing? A miscalculated pid text file, poor driving techniques, bad o2/wb sensors, faulty maf sensors? I mean I don't get it. The procedure seems simple enough and I was thinking by now my ve table and my and maf would be tuned and I would see 14.57/14.63 across the board... nope... I keep switching tunes, try changing filters, thought my wb was to blame, but just don't know anymore.

Here is my last log done via bbx and the tune that was running during that log. Also attached is my filters.txt, calc.pids.txt

This all I change before a log. Afterwards I wait to hit operating temps then begin recording. My driving consists of WOT from 3500 up usually on 3rd/4th gear with 0% tps deceleration in gear as low as I can go in almost every gear possible. I try to do some slow accelerations to the mid rpms and add as much daily driving in as possible. On some other logs I also tried braking and low gear hard acceleration to hit more of the cells. I just haven't done it recently because I don't feel confident the calc.vet values would be "right."

B0701 Changed from Enabled to Disabled (Change back after logging)
B0120 Changed from 4000 to 400 (Change back after logging)
B3313 Changed from -30C to 140C (Change back after logging)

What am I doing wrong or what am I missing?

14673
14674
14675
14677

-Shaun

joecar

March 3rd, 2013, 12:24 AM

Post screenshots of your CALC.VET map and SELBEN map.

sonicgroove

March 3rd, 2013, 03:27 AM

Im not home right now but the last file attached ls1b0007 is my log that includes the selbens and calcvet maps data. I wont be home till around 8pm tonight.

-shaun

sonicgroove

March 3rd, 2013, 08:15 PM

Post screenshots of your CALC.VET map and SELBEN map.

Hey Joe, per your request I posted a screenshot of my calc.vet and selbens maps. On the left is the map before the filter is applied, the right is filter applied. As always, your input would be appreciated. Thanks

14684

joecar

March 4th, 2013, 04:27 AM

joecar

March 4th, 2013, 08:40 AM

Do you have two successive .tun files...?

sonicgroove

March 4th, 2013, 09:56 AM

Your LTFT's are mostly zero or slightly negative, and your NGK indicates 12.4 at WOT, and log indicates it's hauling.

I'm wondering why the NGK drops to 9.05 when throttle is released...

Let me have a closer look later today.

Thanks joe that would be great. Btw, why is it in the beginning of my log ltft are so high, then later begin to drop and vary within that ideal +-5 range...?

I know my knowledge on tuning is incredibly dull and broken but from what I currently understand if wo2lam readings are under 1.0 it means my wbo2 sensor is reading rich of stoich? So for example in my log using 0.9883 of the ngks stoich value 14.57 my afr would be 14.3995 yet in this same area longft1/2% are reading positve of 3.9 correlating with my ltftben being 1.039 hence my calc.vet wanting to richen up? Isn't this kind of backwards? If my wo2lam is under 1.0 my ltft should be negative along with ltftben so calc.vet will slightly subtract from the ve table? Or is it inaccurate to do this comparison with ltft and more appropriate to log stft to check if ltfts are calculating correctly for my ve table?

And just to clarify, wblam does not affect daily driving for calc.vet. It is only WOT or when in PE (cells usually above 85/90kpa) that wb readings are used to adjust calc.vet?

If what understand is correct. Wouldn't it be far easier or at least more accurate to have wbo2 perform calc vet rather than ltft for the first few tunes then use a series of ltfts calc.vets followed by adjust via stft to fine tune?

-Shaun

joecar

March 4th, 2013, 10:38 AM

LTFT's seem to go high while idling.

Yes, Lambda < 1 indicates rich.

In CL, the WB should be indicating Lambda 1.00 (or very close to it) as log as the LTFT's are not pegging.

Yes, if you look at how CALC.SELBEN is defined, it uses LTFTBEN in CL, and WO2LAM1 otherwise (non-CL which includes PE/WOT).

You could disable CL/trimming (see B3801, B4205), and use WO2BEN only (and doing the same procedure as Calc.VET, i.e. correcting MAF and calculating VE).

sonicgroove

March 4th, 2013, 10:47 AM

I would like to give that a try and see if I get more accurate afr/lamba readings from my wb and do a comparison between the calc.vet numbers. So essentially I'll be forcing PCM into OL. Do I need to adjust my calc.pids accordingly or just disabling cl/trimming I could use the same pid setup to perform calc.vet?

Btw, I have some past tune files but I was more dense and had less of an idea of what to do compared to now. So using them to determine how I tune probably won't be as accurate compared to if I were to create a new log and tune file for you to compare. I can easily do this for you if you wish and think it would help.

I also do think I need to fix my driving techniques a bit.

-Shaun

joecar

March 4th, 2013, 12:39 PM

joecar

March 4th, 2013, 12:41 PM

Take note: when in CL, and LTFT's are not pegging, then wideband should read lamdba 1.00... if not the there is some offset in the wideband value.

sonicgroove

March 4th, 2013, 05:03 PM

In the calc_pids.txt file, edit the CLC definition of CALC.CL to read "0" (i.e. never CL)... and use the same pids (CALC.SELBEN and CALC.VET) in the maps.

Also, LA fuel might contain 5%-10% alcohol, so try setting B3601 to 14.3 or 14.4.

Hey Joe,

I did the following so far to force openloop but am unsure how to "In the calc_pids.txt file, edit the CLC definition of CALC.CL to read "0" (i.e. never CL)..." so I can calc.vet based of wb02. Do I simply change "{GM.EQIVRATIO}" to = 0?

Instead of

*CLC-00-032
factor 0 4 .0 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}=1"

to

*CLC-00-032
factor 0 4 .0 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}=0"

B3601 Stoich Changed from 14.63 to 14.3 for California 91 Octane Fuel
B3801 Changed from Enabled to Disabled
B4206 Changed from Disabled to Enabled

After this I could just log and perform a calc.vet how I did previously, correct? (Using all the same pids if I were doing narrowband ltft calc.vet)

-Shaun

sonicgroove

March 5th, 2013, 12:47 AM

In anycase that is what I did, haha. I kind of don't think I did it properly because I was still running in closed loop per the log. Still seeing CL of 1 but I pushed on anyhow and made the calc.vet changes. When I checked out the log, I have to say, the raw data looks pretty good. The changes appear to be something I would expect. However, once I applied the filters... all hell breaks loose. The data gets skewed to a rich tune. I am thinking this may be due to the fact that the filter excludes any data below 1% throttle so it throws out my deceleration data. That said I changed the filter from 1% to 0% and reapplied. Not much changed from the raw data. I want to try using this mildly filtered data because the changes do look to be in the direction I THINK the tune should be going. What makes me feel more confident is the fact that my selbens has soooo many 1.00. More than I have ever seen. It leads me to believe the raw data mildly filtered is accurate. I am going copy and paste the calc.vet map with minimal changes to my VE table then change PCM settings back to normal and do a log to check out ltft and my wb02 readings. If it all checks out then I'll be doing it once more but this time hitting all cells as much as I can.

On a side note, since I changed 3601 to 14.3 I decided to change commanded fuel to 1.13 to maintain an afr of 12.65 during PE/WOT.

Here are the files you requested.
Initial Tune
14690

Corrected/Calculated Tune
14691

Data Log
14692

Omg... I think I just had an epiphany... stoich of california gas is likely 14.1-14.4 (14.13 to be more accurate) because in california since 2010 most gas stations supply e10 or fuel with 5-10% ethanol (Found this out after research). I think this is now mandated since 2012. Btw Joe, the research was prompted after you told me to change 3601 to 14.3/14.4 and I thank you for this.) Since there is a discrepancy between lambda stoich of gas vs lambda stoich of the ngk afx I will almost never see a lambda value of 1 in my data logs if tuned correctly. 14.3/14.57 = 0.9815V. If this is true, it makes sense why my wblam values are consistently in the .97-99 range. This also clarifies why my calc.vet tunes have been telling me to add more air in my VE tables. Because my LTFT are trying to get stoich of pump gas which is 14.3. Seeing that 14.3 was not 14.57 or the 3601 14.63 on my ngk afr display box I thought something was wrong but apparently not. What was wrong was my understanding of how tuning for stoich works. This really made clear the disadvantages of seeing AFR values versus lambda/eqr. Please correct me if I am wrong I am really trying to understand this stuff, haha. If this new found knowledge is correct, my brain is begging clarification of 3601 and LTFT. When PCM is in normal operating closed loop, do the ltft's adjust towards 3601 which is suppose to represent stoich of current fuel? So if ve tables are tuned for lamba 1 (or 0.98=14.3/14.57 in my case) of current fuel (approximately e10) then ltft should be close to 0 correct? Now... if I did not have a WB and I performed calc.vet with a factory 3601 value of 14.63, the narrowband ltft based calc.vet would actually take air away because the pcm thinks the car is running rich because stoich of gas is 14.3 so fuel trims likely be negative to reach factory 3601 14.63. This in reality would be lean. God I hope this is right...

This probably does not explain why I am going rich on decel. I think this may be related to the map filter I mentioned above. Or so I hope...

Sorry for jumping all over the place but the order of what I wrote chronological describes my thought process at the time, haha.

-Shaun

joecar

March 5th, 2013, 05:39 AM

Hey Joe,

I did the following so far to force openloop but am unsure how to "In the calc_pids.txt file, edit the CLC definition of CALC.CL to read "0" (i.e. never CL)..." so I can calc.vet based of wb02. Do I simply change "{GM.EQIVRATIO}" to = 0?

Instead of

*CLC-00-032
factor 0 4 .0 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}=1"

to

*CLC-00-032
factor 0 4 .0 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}=0"

B3601 Stoich Changed from 14.63 to 14.3 for California 91 Octane Fuel
B3801 Changed from Enabled to Disabled
B4206 Changed from Disabled to Enabled

After this I could just log and perform a calc.vet how I did previously, correct? (Using all the same pids if I were doing narrowband ltft calc.vet)

-ShaunHi Shaun,

I actually meant this:

*CLC-00-032
factor 0 4 .0 "0"
this will cause the SELBEN pid to always use WO2BEN (which is the correction pid from your wideband).

You will also have to disable trimming/LTFT/STFT/SOL, like this:
- set B3801 to disable,
- set B4205 to max temp,
- set B4206 to disable (if not already).

Yes, around So.Cal, 91 contains 5-10% alcohol, so setting B3601 to 14.3-14.4 is a reasonable compromise.

Yes, correct, just perform the Calc.VET procedure as usual.

joecar

March 5th, 2013, 05:42 AM

sonicgroove

March 5th, 2013, 06:23 AM

Also do this:
- disconnect the NGK from your FlashScan;
- connect the AD1+ pin to the AD1- pin and see what the pid EXT.AD1 says (in volts);
- connect a 1.5V AA battery to the AD1+/- and see what EXT.AD1 says, and at the same time measure the voltage using a DMM;
- tape two 1.5 AA batteries together, and repeat;

post the results here (what EXT.AD1 says and what the DMM says) for those three cases:
- AD1+/- shorted:
- 1.5V AA battery:
- 3.0V AA battery:

Joe does this mean my epiphany was really the epitome of fail, lol... I thought I was beginning to understand but if I am wrong, please let me know so I can rid that information from my head.

I will do that right now and post the results.

-Shaun

sonicgroove

March 5th, 2013, 07:11 AM

Here are the results of your request.

(2) Sanyo Eneloop AA Battery
Innova 3140 Digital Multimeter

V2 Readings:

EXT.AD1 reads: 0.01v, When powered and nothing attached to AD1,
EXT.AD1 reads: 0.01v, When polarity is reversed
EXT.AD1 reads: 0.01v, When AD1+ is connected to AD1- (Terminals loops)
EXT.AD1 reads: 1.42/3v with Battery A; DMM reads: 1.413v
EXT.AD1 reads: 1.42/3v with Battery B; DMM reads: 1.417v
EXT.AD1 reads: 2.84/5v with stacked batteries; DMM reads: 2.832v

-Shaun

joecar

March 5th, 2013, 01:13 PM

Joe does this mean my epiphany was really the epitome of fail, lol... I thought I was beginning to understand but if I am wrong, please let me know so I can rid that information from my head.

I will do that right now and post the results.

-ShaunWe just want to sanity check everything (sorry, what idea...?).

joecar

March 5th, 2013, 01:18 PM

sonicgroove

March 5th, 2013, 02:03 PM

Ok, looks like AD voltage reading is correct within 1% (at zero) or 0.5% worst case... so it should be ok.

JOE! I got DFCO to woork! Decel richness corrected! Apparently the settings were not ideal for my setup/environment for DFCO to turn on. Made some aggressive changes and went for a drive and bam! Like instant breaks and wbo2 reading super lean. Since enablers work now I am going to reset TPS and map enablers to stock settings. Hopefully it still works. Here is the log file that shows the values. For the first time, I am seeing lambda values above 1... wow... All that is left is if you could confirm my sanity check. LTFTs trim toward GM.EQR 1 which is defined by afr entered in b3601. So in my case, it would be 14.3? So calc.vet tuning uses ltft to fine tune main VE table for a afr of 14.3 or EQR1. Then OL/PE uses commanded fuel (B3601, B3605) which is also based off GM.EQR1/B3601. IE 14.3/1.13= 12.65afr.

14695

joecar

March 6th, 2013, 09:33 AM

Hi Shaun,

In BBx pidlist for logging calc.vet, click the V7 button and add the following pids:
CALC.AFR_NGK1
CALC.WB
CALC.DAT
CALC.VEN
CALC.VET

save to file, and program to V2.

joecar

March 6th, 2013, 09:36 AM

LS1B_0011.efi is a good log, wideband signal looks very good, looks like it is working right...

use this log to do one iteration of Calc.VET...

make sure the transient filter filters out closed throttle.

joecar

March 6th, 2013, 09:48 AM

The Calc.VET procedure does this:

- filters out transient air conditions (when you apply the transient filter)(which also filters out VE contribution);
- corrects the MAF using LTFTBEN (CL=1) and WO2BEN (CL=0) [ i.e. multiplies existing MAF by the BEN correction factor ];
- calculates the VE from the corrected MAF (using IGL equation) [ i.e. calculates a new VE from the corrected MAF ];

take note of how the words "correction" and "calculation" are used;

to apply the MAF correction: do paste-multiply (with-labels) of the CALC.SELBEN map into B5001,
to apply the VE calculation: do paste (with-labels) of the CALC.VET map into B0101,

( always use the with-labels variants of the paste commands to ensure that the pasted map is correctly aligned in the table ).

joecar

March 6th, 2013, 09:51 AM

Your IAT (and consequently CALC.DAT) is high... can you replumb for cold air...?

joecar

March 6th, 2013, 09:57 AM

Weird, I see wideband AFR (CALC.AFR_NGK1 and CALC.WB.AFR) go rich on decel...

sonicgroove

March 6th, 2013, 08:00 PM

Hi Shaun,

In BBx pidlist for logging calc.vet, click the V7 button and add the following pids:
CALC.AFR_NGK1
CALC.WB
CALC.DAT
CALC.VEN
CALC.VET

save to file, and program to V2.

Joe... sometimes I wonder why I don't think of these things... Will do.

LS1B_0011.efi is a good log, wideband signal looks very good, looks like it is working right...

use this log to do one iteration of Calc.VET...

make sure the transient filter filters out closed throttle.

Because I couldn't get dfco to work I kept battling if I could control it by tuning it out, but since dfco is working I am no longer worried about that and will definitely keep your filter as is. That is... filtering closed throttle out via including data with tps greater or equal to 1%. I was surprised average ltft were 1.5/1.3 for banks 1/2. My target goal for LTFT in a long datalog is 0 to -1.

In this log I actually returned all settings back to stock. Would it be accurate to use considering dfco was on, b0120 was changed to 400, and b0701 was enabled?

The Calc.VET procedure does this:

- filters out transient air conditions (when you apply the transient filter)(which also filters out VE contribution);
- corrects the MAF using LTFTBEN (CL=1) and WO2BEN (CL=0) [ i.e. multiplies existing MAF by the BEN correction factor ];
- calculates the VE from the corrected MAF (using IGL equation) [ i.e. calculates a new VE from the corrected MAF ];

take note of how the words "correction" and "calculation" are used;

to apply the MAF correction: do paste-multiply (with-labels) of the CALC.SELBEN map into B5001,
to apply the VE calculation: do paste (with-labels) of the CALC.VET map into B0101,

( always use the with-labels variants of the paste commands to ensure that the pasted map is correctly aligned in the table ).

Got it.

Your IAT (and consequently CALC.DAT) is high... can you replumb for cold air...?

I am actually in the process of this. Its a shortram intake that will be isolated by an abs plastic wall and sealed by the hood. Under the intake will be a hole that will use the stock brake duct modified to guide/ram air into the isolated box. Its a water proof cold-air intake that will be safe to operate during flooded cali winters. I am about halfway done.

Weird, I see wideband AFR (CALC.AFR_NGK1 and CALC.WB.AFR) go rich on decel...

Well, compared to when dfco was deactivated it is so much improved but I do see it as well. I also noticed it while driving. It was hard to activate/deactivate it because of the aggressive settings. I am going to see if I can smooth it transitions between activate and deactivate but try to get it to activate earlier so I can catch

Joe can you answer a few questions for me?
Do LTFT trim with a target goal of B3601 which the pcm sets as GM.EQR 1?
How does 3605 work in relation to 3618, 3617, when in ol/pe/wot? I would like to set it up so at WOT at any range always hits .86/1.16
If my LTFT averages are positive 1.5/1.3% could I just add 1.5% throughout the entire ve table to get my target average of 0 to -1%?

Thanks

-Shaun

sonicgroove

March 6th, 2013, 08:33 PM

joecar

March 7th, 2013, 05:30 AM

Btw, I was not able to add all the necessary calc.pids on bbx. There is not enough space to enter all my preselected pids. Can I add more somehow, or will I just have to manual select them after loading the log?

-ShaunYes, I got the same problem, there is room for only 8 calc pids... just manually select the remaining ones.

joecar

March 7th, 2013, 05:45 AM

In this log I actually returned all settings back to stock. Would it be accurate to use considering dfco was on, b0120 was changed to 400, and b0701 was enabled?

B0120: can be 400 rpm for the Calc.VET procedure (it disables the VE which is ok since we're calculating the VE rather than correcting it).
COTP: when activates, EQIVRATIO shows the commanded EQR due to COTP, the wideband should follow this, so the correction factor will be valid.
DFCO: when activates, EQIVRATIO shows the commanded EQR due to DFCO, weideband correction will be valid.

i.e. the log should be ok with B0120 at 400 rpm, COTP enabled, DFCO on.

When in doubt, take a new log.

Joe can you answer a few questions for me?
Do LTFT trim with a target goal of B3601 which the pcm sets as GM.EQR 1?
How does 3605 work in relation to 3618, 3617, when in ol/pe/wot? I would like to set it up so at WOT at any range always hits .86/1.16
If my LTFT averages are positive 1.5/1.3% could I just add 1.5% throughout the entire ve table to get my target average of 0 to -1%?
LTFT trims with target goal of Lambda 1 (which corresponds to a commanded AFR equal to B3601, and a wideband measured AFR corresponding to stoich AFR of fuel used).

B3601 is needed to convert commanded EQR to fuelmass... in CL the trims then add their correction on top of this; in OL the is no correction so B3601 is required to be close to actual stoich AFR.

CL: commands lambda 1.00 using B3601.
CL going to PE: B3618 is active, it is the only table active.

OL: B3605 is active, it is the only table active.
OL going to PE: B3618 and B3605 are active, the richest of the two is selected (on a cell-by-cell comparison at the operating point).

Yes, just add 1.5% to the MAF and VE tables...

Above B0120: MAF is used always.
Below B0120: MAF is used for steady airflow, VE is used for transient airflow.

joecar

March 7th, 2013, 06:02 AM

Summary:

The commanded EQR is determined as follows (regardless of VE or MAF):
- in CL it is stoichiometric (trimming to stoich);
- in OL it is from B3605;
- going from CL to PE it is B3618;
- going from OL to PE it is the richer of B3618 or B3605;

Which commanded fuel tables are active when:
OL at PT, only B3605 is active;
OL going to PE, B3605 and B3618 are active;
CL at PT, usually CL trimming;
CL going to PE, only B3618 is active.

Same rule applies when protection modes activate (e.g. COTP, PPM, EPM):
of the active tables the PCM selects the richest (on a cell-by-cell comparison at the operating point).

sonicgroove

March 8th, 2013, 08:13 AM

B0120: can be 400 rpm for the Calc.VET procedure (it disables the VE which is ok since we're calculating the VE rather than correcting it).
COTP: when activates, EQIVRATIO shows the commanded EQR due to COTP, the wideband should follow this, so the correction factor will be valid.
DFCO: when activates, EQIVRATIO shows the commanded EQR due to DFCO, weideband correction will be valid.

i.e. the log should be ok with B0120 at 400 rpm, COTP enabled, DFCO on.

Joe, if data is still valid why disable cotp and dfco?

-Shaun

joecar

March 8th, 2013, 09:46 AM

Joe, if data is still valid why disable cotp and dfco?

-ShaunBecause disabling those reduces the commanded fueling transitions... but if they are enabled, tuning is still easy to do

[ airflow transitions have to be avoided, this is what the transient filter removes ]

joecar

March 11th, 2013, 05:34 PM

Shaun,

More info: set post #4 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

sonicgroove

March 11th, 2013, 05:57 PM

Thanks joe... will be reading those when I get a chance. Sorry for the inactivity. I've been busy working on my air box. Should help lower IAT. The box is more or less complete, just need to setup the ram air using brake ram air cooling system. My coolant cap also went bad on me so i ordered some moroso caps. Once I all these pieces setup I'll be tuning again. Btw, got pictures of your setup? Would love know what you got going on your trans am.

-Shaun

joecar

March 12th, 2013, 05:02 AM

I'll take some pics when I get my camera charged...

I usually run with long tube headers (with metallic cats) and with the Blackwing airbox lid (it's the only lid I found to fit properly, it comes OEM on the Firehawk)... everything else looks plain/stock, not much too see...

I'm about to install:
- shocks (Koni),
- springs (Strano, 1.25" drop),
- 35mm/22mm sway bars (Strano),
- bushings/balljoints/shockmounts (Moog),
- wheel/axle bearings (Timkin),
- motor/trans mounts (Prothane),
- stainless catback (MagnaFlow dual single tips),
- LS6 valley plate,
- 243 heads with LS6 valves/springs,
- 308 cam (I want to keep the stock torque converter),
- rocker trunion upgrade (Comp Cams),
- lifters (stock replacement for LS1/LS2/LS3/LS6/LS7),
- timing sprockets (stock replacement)
- timing chain (Katech/IWIS),
- oil pump (stock LS6),
- harmonic damper/pulley (ATI),
- water pump with later style (2-piece) thermostat,
- trans external cooler,
- power steering external cooler,
- a few other things (tensioner/idler pulleys),

lol, my list is longer than I realized... I'm going to be busy :)

sonicgroove

March 15th, 2013, 02:16 AM

LOL that is quite a list you got there. Sounds nice though. Got to love durability upgrades with the added advantage of performance gains. What are you looking to put down when all is said and done?

-Shaun

joecar

March 15th, 2013, 03:31 AM

Yes, I'm due for a refresh, I have 150K miles.

The LS6 (243 heads, 308 cam) is rated by GM at 405 fwhp... with the headers/lid I mentioned I'm guestmating 430 fwhp...

the beauty of this is that below 3000 rpm torque/power will be the same as the stock LS1 (fuel consumption, emissions, driveability will be the same)... lol, it will be almost "sleeper" (if a TA can be called that), no body will be any the wiser (other than the exhaust sound).

like you said, my aim is to upgrade performance while retaining durability, maintain driveability, improve handling, and keep the stockish appearance.

sonicgroove

March 24th, 2013, 07:15 PM

I really want to do some reliability mods myself, especially push rods and springs. An ls6 head would also be a nice add on along with a ported polished TB/intake manifold and timing chain.

Back to the tuning part, I think my VE table is finally coming together. On my latest log with filters applied my average ltft1 was 0.3 and ltft2 0.0. Pretty happy about that. The log didn't include any real WOT but just some everyday driving and hard accel. I tried to fine tune some areas by adding the ltft percent in certain rpm vs map areas. My new target as far as ltft averages go is between -1 to 0% over an hour log. I did notice that in PE I was logging positive trims so I added some fuel in that range and hope to 0 them out. I then had to remove alot of timing to get rid of the KR. I tried to do some research and from what I could find, the 98-00 LS1's don't like too much timing when paired with an LS6 intake manifold. Seems like 00 LS1 with LS6 intake manifold prefers 21-23* of timing during WOT, maybe as low as 19 in some areas. On some previous logs I noticed that my car would lean out on WOT. The initial AFR would be fine but as I continued to hold down the pedal it would lean out amost near stoich... In order for the car to stay rich it went into PPM and used the EQR of 1.25 and only reached lambda values of .80 -.83. I was lost when this happened and tried to figure out what was going on. In the end I just kind of figured multiple factors were at play including cat over temp protection. I need to run another log this time with WOT runs to see if the problem fixed itself. Btw, I don't think I've ever abused this car so much before, haha. Its fun but annoying that I haven't ran into any cars to help me "datalog" in WOT. ;)

So I decided to permanently do the following:

B3605 Commanded Fuel When in Open Loop Changed to 1.16 from 85kPa - 60*C ECT to 100kPA - 140*C ECT
B3603 Engine Protection ModeChanged from 1.13 to 1.16
B3659 Piston Protection Mode Changed from 1.25 to 1.19

Here is my log if you want to take a look.
14777

Any input would be appreciated regarding my progress and the changes I have decided on.

-Shaun