Too many tables are missing in E78

[wesam]

Today i tuned 2012 GMC Sierra HD2500 which has E78 ECM OS 12647731 i'm still using v7.5 build 211
there are a lot of missing tables in E78 i hope if there will be more support for this ECM
tables are:
-B8024
-B8025
-B5208
-B5211
-B7965 can't be changed
-There are no Spark Idle tables
-Idle tables are very poor ( there is no correction tables,No desired air flow table )
-There is no way to put car in open loop and No way to disable LTFT

Thanks in advance

[ScarabEpic22]

I just checked the latest RC4 .calz files, the E78s havent been updated since May 2012. Wonder if there will be updated files included with RC5/public release?

[GMPX]

Aside from the one model V8 truck the E78's primary interest has come from the 4cyl turbo motor, nearly all of those run stock cams etc and people just want to tweak fuel, spark, boost and torque limits, all of which can be done. The demand for the sort of tables needed for V8 cam swaps etc has been low therefore I have not dedicated R&D time to adding such things in.

[wesam]

So do you think
-B8024
-B8025
are not important for v4 turbo cars ?
Also LTFT tables are very important

[GMPX]

So do you think
-B8024
-B8025
are not important for v4 turbo cars ?
Also LTFT tables are very important
None of the above has been requested through support from the Cruze tuners, I'm not saying they are not important, I just walk a fine line between spending time on something not needed by the masses (at this point in time) and keeping every other customer happy.

[wesam]

so there will be no support for this ecm ?
This is a strange response from efi support team so if there is no request from cruize guys so we will abandon other cutomers ?!!

[cindy@efilive]

That's not what has been said. What has been said is that it hasn't been requested YET, and until this point the general need would be relatively low given the type of vehicles supported by that controller.

Rather than getting upset that they are not there, and assuming you'll never get them, you may find you get a better response by requesting support for those tables.

Cheers
Cindy

[wesam]

Thanks a lot Cindy for your answer
Email sent to Paul
I hope if there will be updates

[Boost]

It is strange that GM went with that controller for just one truck. I am glad that EFILive focuses on what is in demand though, it gets most of the people moving forward very well. I have an E78 1.4 liter Cruze with near 200 hp on 93 octane which is an impossible feat without the outstanding support from Ross and the team. And I still think it's possible to get an E78 truck to running much better with the currently available settings. But I understand what you are saying.

[joecar]

Hi Boost,

we don't have rules on the size of your signature, but its large size makes reading/scrolling thru a thread difficult... please...

[Boost]

sorry, I meant it to be 1/3rd that size, that came out huge. I'll change it when I get home.

[joecar]

ok, thanks.

[wesam]

email sent 2 days ago still no response from Paul

[cindy@efilive]

Emails are prioritised and actioned accordingly. Paul cannot implement what you need, so it has been forwarded to Ross for consideration.

If it's any consolation, my emails to Paul this week have gone unanswered too, but it's not an indication that he's ignoring either you or myself, it's an indication that he is eyeball deep in finalising the next release and isn't in a position to be sidetracked to ensure release quality.

Cheers
Cindy

[GMPX]

wesam, Paul forwarded your Email on to me, your requests have been noted and we will work on including them.

[wesam]

Thanks a lot Ross
I know all of you are working hard now for the next release but I'm waiting for updates for this e78 for long time

[GMPX]

Oh, you are right, I forgot you've been waiting on one OS to be supported for them too. I was sure we'd finished that off too, I'll check on Monday for you.

[minytrker]

I was going to make the same post. It's pretty frustrating trying to tune one compared to a e38. You did to good of job on the e38 and got us spoiled, lol. I know it's not a big market but it would be nice to have some more spark, idle, torque management etc.

[GMPX]

I'm pretty sure all the main spark tables are all there (the same set as the E38 has), torque management and control is different to an E38, so far from what we have seen and feedback from people is that on these new turbo cars (E39's, E78) etc there is nothing holding them back in the tune, so the same should apply to the L96 for max HP. Idle controls are totally different on these ECM's and again, not many have requested the idle parameters be expanded to allow big cam tunes etc.
We have had E39 and E78 support for nearly two years and this is the first time this stuff has been bought up. I am not disagreeing with the lack of idle parameters, it's just that the core market of these ECM's is turbo cars, Cruze, Regal, ATS etc, in simple terms all they need is fuel, spark and boost. It's always a fine line for us getting it right as far as distributing our time to expand new support and continue updating older ECM's (and keeping up with GM's constant updates).
Thankfully unlike the E39 there hasn't been too many OS updates for the L96 using the E78 ECM.

[wesam]

Ross I don't know actually how Cruze and FI tuners could tune VVE or MAF if they don't have B8024,B8025 or if they can't put the car in OL because there is no control over O2
the problem is not just idle parameters

[minytrker]

I was just referring to the E78 trucks, thats all I have had an issues with. Everyone I know who has tuned them, we all had the same complaints. But I can see it from EFI's stand point also since I know E78 isnt a huge market.

[GMPX]

Ross I don't know actually how Cruze and FI tuners could tune VVE or MAF if they don't have B8024,B8025 or if they can't put the car in OL because there is no control over O2
the problem is not just idle parameters
I can't answer on behalf of them, but so far it hasn't seemed to be causing anyone enough concern they have requested it.
FYI, I have added B8024,B8025, something interesting, on the little engines GM have these set to 7200 & 7000 RPM.


I was just referring to the E78 trucks, thats all I have had an issues with. Everyone I know who has tuned them, we all had the same complaints. But I can see it from EFI's stand point also since I know E78 isnt a huge market.
I don't want this to come across the wrong way but certainly on the E78 side of things we see Cruze licences out doing trucks significantly (unless people don't bother entering in the details on the license fields for trucks), most of the local tuners I've spoken to playing with the Cruze can get the results they need with what is in the software now. Like our own little Cruze, we dropped that thing down in the 6's on a 0 to 60 with really no more than 10 or 15 tables needing to be changed.

Cheers,
Ross

[wesam]

Thanks Ross for adding B8025,B8025
What other tables you will try to add ?

[cindy@efilive]

Thanks Ross for adding B8025,B8025
What other tables you will try to add ?

Development is based on need, we added support for what we though was necessary for tuning for our initial release, after that point Additional tables are reviewed based on customer request.

If you still require further parameters you will need to request them. There is no point in adding tables for the sake of adding tables.

Cheers
Cindy

[wesam]

Development is based on need, we added support for what we though was necessary for tuning for our initial release, after that point Additional tables are reviewed based on customer request.

If you still require further parameters you will need to request them. There is no point in adding tables for the sake of adding table
Cheers
Cindy

I asked for some tables in my first post
I hope if they could be added
Thanks a lot
Wesam

[GMPX]

wesam, what Cindy meant was there is no point sitting there hoping for us to add things in, to begin with we only put in what we feel is required within the time limits assigned to each ECM for development. Once those base cals are done then we wait and hear what people request, for the E78 majority of people wanted more boost for the Cruze. You have made your thoughts known on what is needed (thanks) and I guess all I can say is those request will 'join the queue'. That doesn't mean they will never happen, it just means we can't drop everything to make it happen ASAP.

[wesam]

I can't answer on behalf of them, but so far it hasn't seemed to be causing anyone enough concern they have requested it.
FYI, I have added B8024,B8025, something interesting, on the little engines GM have these set to 7200 & 7000 RPM.



Cheers,
Ross
Ross i update the software to the latest version but still can't see b8024 and b8025 in this OS

[EagleMark]

None of the above has been requested through support from the Cruze tuners, I'm not saying they are not important, I just walk a fine line between spending time on something not needed by the masses (at this point in time) and keeping every other customer happy.


That's not what has been said. What has been said is that it hasn't been requested YET, and until this point the general need would be relatively low given the type of vehicles supported by that controller.

Rather than getting upset that they are not there, and assuming you'll never get them, you may find you get a better response by requesting support for those tables.

Cheers
CindySorry guys and gal. But that answer is fairly standard for all the things missing from many different controllers. I spent a month getting the 98-00 Vortec up to par of tuning and so it would work with all the tutorials as well and even gave you the locations from disassembleys on a silver plater. Your response was sorry... no time to go backwards as we are working on new things!

You have concurred quantity! Now concur quality!

[cindy@efilive]

Sorry guys and gal. But that answer is fairly standard for all the things missing from many different controllers. I spent a month getting the 98-00 Vortec up to par of tuning and so it would work with all the tutorials as well and even gave you the locations from disassembleys on a silver plater. Your response was sorry... no time to go backwards as we are working on new things!

You have concurred quantity! Now concur quality!

Our software is free to download so that customers can make an accurate decision on whether it will meet their needs PRIOR to purchase. If our product doesn't meet your needs you need to find one that does - it's that simple. Did you evaluate the product before your purchase?

We don't claim to have every parameter in our software, and if that's what you are after, you really need a factory calibration tool not an aftermarket product.

The cost of development MUST be offset and deliver a measurable benefit. One request on a platform that is either 13 or 14 years old doesn't provide that return.

There are no parallels between your Vortec comments and E78 support. E78 is a current controller, initially released on a select few vehicles in 2011, with coverage expanding to additional models in 2012 and 2013, as such as this platform increases in vehicles and customer requests, additional support will be tabled.

Cheers
Cindy

[EagleMark]

I was not looking for excuses. As always a great defense to your business model, but not much support for the tuner. People buy the best and expect it, most have no idea what's missing.

I wish it was only the Vortec... although you could have opened a huge Vortec market with work I gave you for free. The internet can change fast from knowing a product is not worth it to the best! There will always be more Vortec trucks that want to be tuned then a cruz. I have 8 year old software that has double parameters for Vortec and then another 20-30 I added. It's not that hard... I'll admit I did expect so much more from the best, instead I still have to do the hard work...

Just trying to open your eyes to the world outside your business model, I'd like to see you do well into the future, which includes improving the past. As always was meant for positive improvements to your product.

[cindy@efilive]

That's the thing with development - you get pulled in so many directions, and one of the real reasons we set ourselves clear development plans. And a reason why .cax files were implemented, so users who have the skills and need can deliver the result they require.

I'll take your comments on board, sometimes the economies of scale do go our way. We haven't worked on Allison for 5 or 6 years, and just this month we've had a customer find something significant and it will be added to our next release. http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?22698-600-rpm-slip-limit-solved!!!!-OS-25941752

Cheers
Cindy

[wesam]

I'm still waiting for a response :music_whistling_1:

[cindy@efilive]

Ross i update the software to the latest version but still can't see b8024 and b8025 in this OS

They are updated and awaiting release. Ross has had to reconfigure some stuff for the E78, E39 etc, until the software supports these changes the new tables won't make it into the public arena, sorry.

Cheers
Cindy

[minytrker]

Its a catch 22 for EFI Live either way IMO. EFI Live has to always keep developing new parameters for new ecm's and juggle between diesel and gas. With that being said I think older ecm's and tcm's are the bread and butter for most tuners. I know myself and other gas tuners have tuned more LS1B PCM's than they can count, after that the E38/T43 would be next but catching up fast. Usually majority of my tuning is a couple years behind the current year and its the same for the other gas tuners I know. Tuned was more 2010's than 2012's, E38/T43 is like the ls1b was a few years ago. Even though e38. and t43 are "old" to efi live they are very current for a lot of tuners still. The competition is still coming out with more and more updates for e38 and t43 with every update. They just added "New E38 and E67 Parameters for Idle, Spark, Fuel and ETC" and "T43 TCM's Receive 150+ Tables Including TM & TCC Lockup Tables" I'm not bashing EFI by any means but obviously there has to be some need/demand for e38/t43 out there still. I just used e38/t43 as an example because thats what I see alot of. Thats just my perspective from someone who has been in the gas tuning world for a long time. Im sure there are people on the other forum wanting more duramax support, its never ending Im sure.

[ScarabEpic22]

I was not looking for excuses. As always a great defense to your business model, but not much support for the tuner. People buy the best and expect it, most have no idea what's missing.

I wish it was only the Vortec... although you could have opened a huge Vortec market with work I gave you for free. The internet can change fast from knowing a product is not worth it to the best! There will always be more Vortec trucks that want to be tuned then a cruz. I have 8 year old software that has double parameters for Vortec and then another 20-30 I added. It's not that hard... I'll admit I did expect so much more from the best, instead I still have to do the hard work...

Just trying to open your eyes to the world outside your business model, I'd like to see you do well into the future, which includes improving the past. As always was meant for positive improvements to your product.

Not trying to be a dick here at all, but why not just release your .cax files into the wild? If EFILive adds them into the existing .calz's, they'll be publicly used/public knowledge. If you release them as a .cax, they'll be publicly used/public knowledge. See where I'm going here.


minytrker (Lorenz correct?), I agree with you here. I havent done many LS1Bs, but E40 and E67s (so 06 - ~10) are what I usually get. Especially with 5 year warranties, its either the diehard gearheads that want their stuff tuned now or the 2nd/3rd owners of ~5-8 year old stuff tuned.

[dgdyno]

I have a customer that put a cam in a 2013 6.0 chevy hd truck e78 I do not have idle tables and idle spark tables could add these tables

[wesam]

Any updates for the tables i asked about ?

[cindy@efilive]

Ross has mapped them, but there are other changes that need to be facilitated at the same time. Those structural changes are progressing through the queue.

Cheers
Cindy

[minytrker]

I have a customer that put a cam in a 2013 6.0 chevy hd truck e78 I do not have idle tables and idle spark tables could add these tables

These would help. Its very frustrating tuning a E78 truck vs E38 truck.

[GMPX]

The E78 updates don't have comprehensive idle table changes, just that stuff wesam was asking about.

[wesam]

The E78 updates don't have comprehensive idle table changes, just that stuff wesam was asking about.

Ross when thoose updates will be available ?

[ringram]

You guys forget that you can add your own tables with the cax feature extensions. Maybe head on over the cax area and see if you can get some pointers..?

[GMPX]

Ross when thoose updates will be available ?
There was changes made to the E78, E39 stuff that requires the V7.5 tune tool to be updated for a specific purpose, that hasn't happened yet, sorry.

[wesam]

Please all I need B8024,B8025 and B1504
I will not ask for any thing else
I can't tune cars with FI or with after market Injectors without those 3 tables
Any help will be appreciated

[wesam]

Any updates ?

[Highlander]

For what OS is it needed those tables?

[wesam]

For this OS 12647731

[Highlander]

Sent you email with file and cax file....

[RiceCop]

Any updates on E78 development? I really really need the fan controls available for several customers.

[GMPX]

There has been no E78 development for a while, in the new year we will have our new guy enhancing this.

[Wheelz]

Can I get OS 12657063 mapped for E78? I've been waiting on it for a year. I thought I emailed Cindy about it last April and she said it should be covered with the next couple of releases (not happened yet)

18245

[cindy@efilive]

Your OS's has now been mapped. We hope to have calibration files available for beta testing within the next week or so. Release time frame is dependent on that data validation process.

Cheers
Cindy

[Wheelz]

Thanks Cindy!

[joeygc5]

Good news, patiently awaiting the outcome for 3+ 2014 2500HD trucks

[cindy@efilive]

Information update available here https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?25455-E92-E78-E39-E39A-Beta-test

Cheers
Cindy

[wesam]

Hi Cindy
I need help for E78 OS 12669508 which came in 2016 2500HD trucks
I don't know why the speed limiter is not supported up to now for this calibration
I'm waiting for almost a year know
Any help will be appreciated

[Highlander]

dude email me... i'll get it fixed...

[cindy@efilive]

Hi Cindy
I need help for E78 OS 12669508 which came in 2016 2500HD trucks
I don't know why the speed limiter is not supported up to now for this calibration
I'm waiting for almost a year know
Any help will be appreciated

Can you please point me to your request? We updated that OS in July 2016, but I can't find any record of any feedback since that update, or any record of you actually asking for this.

I will speak with our developer.

Cheers
Cindy

[wesam]

speed limiter tables should not be requested it should be one of the first tables to be available for tuners
I'm talking about tables :
H0129
H0155
H0130
H0131
H0156
H0157
H0158
H0132
H0133
H0134
Those for speed limiters

Also we need Rev limiter tables for all E78 OS
B5220
B5221
b5222
Also noticed those tables are missing:
IAT table B5507
Torque limiting throttle table B8305

Thanks in advance

[cindy@efilive]

speed limiter tables should not be requested it should be one of the first tables to be available for tuners
I'm talking about tables :
H0129
H0155
H0130
H0131
H0156
H0157
H0158
H0132
H0133
H0134
Those for speed limiters

Also we need Rev limiter tables for all E78 OS
B5220
B5221
b5222
Also noticed those tables are missing:
IAT table B5507
Torque limiting throttle table B8305

Thanks in advance

The calz files included in the current release were not the most up to date calz files the developer had worked on - somehow the latest never made it into the release. They have been added to the next release, scheduled for Monday 21st November.

The update includes the following to all operating systems:
Torque Limiting Throttle Table
Torque Limiting Gear Vs RPM

The update includes the following that were missing in OS 126787542 and 12669508
IAT Spark Table
A range of speed limiter tables
A range of Rev limiter tables

Cheers
Cindy

[wesam]

Thanks a lot Cindy and EFI live team for your quick response to aolve this issue
I hope those tables will be available for all previous OSs

[cindy@efilive]

Thanks a lot Cindy and EFI live team for your quick response to aolve this issue
I hope those tables will be available for all previous OSs

My understanding is that the speed limiter tables, rev limiter tables and IAT Spark were already in all OS's, with the exception of 126787542 & 12669508. The reason for that was those last 2 operating systems used a very different OS to the earlier OS's and as such required additional development.

The Torque limiting table requests have been added to all operating systems.

Cheers
Cindy

[wesam]

Hi Cindy there in some new E78 OS still missing some tables like OS# 12647731
Need IAT table B5107 and TCS tables B2524,B2525,B2526

The most important table we are still missing is the O2 tables so we can force the vehicles in to Open loop

Thanks in advance

[cindy@efilive]

Hi Cindy there in some new E78 OS still missing some tables like OS# 12647731
Need IAT table B5107 and TCS tables B2524,B2525,B2526

The most important table we are still missing is the O2 tables so we can force the vehicles in to Open loop

Thanks in advance

IAT tables have been added. The TCS is managed very differently on the most recent year model compared to the earlier one, so no luck on that as yet.

The developer has asked for more direction on the O2 tables - do you have table numbers?

Cheers
Cindy

[wesam]

IAT tables have been added. The TCS is managed very differently on the most recent year model compared to the earlier one, so no luck on that as yet.

The developer has asked for more direction on the O2 tables - do you have table numbers?

Cheers
Cindy

For the O2 if its the same as in E92 it should be B1518

[cindy@efilive]

The developer has added a range of tables to the 29 E78 calz files that will be made available in the next release. His additions include...IAT, O2 (B1518 & B1519), and LTFT limits (B1511 & B1512).

He couldn't figure out the TCS nor flexfuel, so they will not be part of the update.

LTFT strategy also changed between OS's, the above mentioned tables have been added to all OS's with the exception of 12669508, 12677542 and 12677353.

Wesam, I received your E92 email this week, the developer will take a look shortly.

Cheers
Cindy

[wesam]

The developer has added a range of tables to the 29 E78 calz files that will be made available in the next release. His additions include...IAT, O2 (B1518 & B1519), and LTFT limits (B1511 & B1512).

He couldn't figure out the TCS nor flexfuel, so they will not be part of the update.

LTFT strategy also changed between OS's, the above mentioned tables have been added to all OS's with the exception of 12669508, 12677542 and 12677353.

Wesam, I received your E92 email this week, the developer will take a look shortly.

Cheers
Cindy

Thanks a lot Cindy i appreciate your help