Looking for some pointers on maf tuning.

[TJWells]

I've gotten some excellent help tuning my vve, now i need to tune the maf I think. read through the tutorial and I gotta admit I'm lost.
My vve table is really good, I think. I have all 1's in my ben table. When I reconnect the maf and reverse what I did to log data per tutorial I see a few .9's in the upper RPM's. What should I do to tune the maf?

[joecar]

Set the dynamic air transition RPM to below idle (i.e. the RPM at which MAF+VE transitions to/from pure MAF)

[ sorry, I don't have a file in front of me at the moment to quote the table id ]

and then use wideband BEN to correct the MAF table.

[swingtan]

Joe is talking about {B8024} and {B8025}. Set them to something like 500 and 400 RPM and you should only be running in MAF measured airflow.

Simon.

[TJWells]

Thanks guys,
I assume I log ben while running on just maf then adjust maf accoringly?

[joecar]

Thanks guys,
I assume I log ben while running on just maf then adjust maf accoringly?Yes, MAF only, running in OL (to avoid CL/LTFT/STFT trimming).

[TJWells]

Thanks joe, i would have worked in closed loop had you not mentioned that.
Cuz I miss the simple stuff all the time!:doh2:

[TJWells]

What table does the ecm look at to determine what afr should be?
Lambda=AFR / Stoich where does it get what stoich should be?
Also why don't we do anything with CFCO for logging BEN? We turn off DFCO.

[joecar]

Commanded fuel is determined as follows:


PCM determines commanded EQR from:
- CL: closed loop feedback trimming to stoichiometric (EQR 1.000),
- OL: the richest EQR from the EQR tables active at that moment:
-- B3605 (OL only) (see note below),
-- B3647 (OL only) (COS) (see note below),
-- B3618 (if PE has enabled from B3608-B3616, B3619-B3626),
-- B3659 (if PP has enabled from B3652-B3658),
-- B3603 (if EP has enabled from B1601-B1603),
-- COTP (if COTP has been enabled by B0701-B0705) (I don't see a table for COTP EQR).


More info, see post #4: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)


B3601 defines the stoich AFR to the PCM.

Actually, it's defined the other way round: AFR = stoich * Lambda
(i.e. AFR is defined in terms of Lambda, Lambda is the same for all fuels)

The wideband either has a programmable stoich AFR (e.g. LC-1/LM-1/LM-2) or assumes some value (e.g. NGK assumes 14.5);
if you use wideband Lambda then you don't have to un-factor stoich AFR out of the correction.


When DFCO kicks in it makes a rapid/step transition to DFCO fueling...

there are several reasons for disabling DFCO during tuning:
- want to avoid large fueling transitions (we're already dealing with airmass transitions),
- if DFCO AFR/EQR is not reflected in the commanded fuel pids.

You can still tune with DFCO enabled, your transient filter will now have to include a clause to filter it out.

[TJWells]

I understand why DFCO just curious why CFCO isnt an issue.

[joecar]

Since CFCO does same thing as DCFO (but in context of manual transmission clutch), it probably should also be disabled during tuning.

[swingtan]

CFCO should be disabled full stop.....


If you don't mind the slight rich spike you get on the gear change, you get a smoother change disabling CFCO. The only time I've turned t on is when I was playing with open throttle shifting ( which worked well for racing, not so much for daily driving ).

You can always filter the log data if you don't want to turn it off, but it's better to.

[TJWells]

ok
I logged some data with maf turned on. no cl/stft/ltft/dfco/cfco. After filtering, I have a few .9 areas @73kPA and up as well as 15-31. How do I corrolate. B1097,B1098 to my log. I believe I need to lower these numbers but how much and where.
I think I logged the wrong data. If so what should I log?
14942

[joecar]

Create 2 maps that look identical to B1097 and B1098...

do this like so:
- in tunetool, for each of B1097 and B1098 one at a time, do copy-with-labels,
- in scantool, create a new map (name it according to the table it maps),
- on Row and Col tabs do Paste Labels (this will dimension the map to match the table),
- on Data tab choose CALC.WO2BEN (see note below),
- on Data tab set Precision to 3 or 4,
- on Data, Row, Col tabs checkmark Show Units,
- on Cell tab checkmark Constrain Size,
- save the map,
- repeat for the other map;

note: since you have CL/LTFT/STFT disabled, you will be using CALC.WO2BEN as the correction factor (and ignore both CALC.LTFTBEN and CALC.SELBEN).


Then, you take some logs, you look at both maps, you apply the low cell count filter and the transient filter, then for each map you copy the whole map and do paste-with-labels into the table it maps (B1097 or B1098), do this for both tables (with their respective maps).

[TJWells]

- on Data tab choose CALC.WO2BEN
Joe this is giving me some trouble. I can't find it. Even if I uncheck selected. I selected Base Efficiency Numerator lc-1 e38 style (factor). Is this right?
I have also added the calc pid to my bbx logging.
14950

CALC.WO2BEN as the correction factor (and ignore both CALC.LTFTBEN and CALC.SELBEN).
Ok I was feeling like I learned something, now I think I missed the last semester.
CALC.W02BEN as the correction factor? Totally lost.
CALC.LTFTBEN and CALC.SELBEN never used them to even know to ignore them.
Man do I fell stupid right now.

[TJWells]

Morning Joe!
I found that if I checked the names box I could find the correct pids. Went to my cal.pids text and figured out the rest.
I am now confident that I have the maps set up properly. Can you direct me to information on defining calc.pids versus other types of pids? right now I'm following direction, but would like to understand better. I believe I understand the theory of CALC.WO2BEN as the correction factor. But i'd like to be informed.

[joecar]

Hi TJW,

BEN is measured Lambda divided by commanded Lambda

[ noting that EQR = 1/Lambda as some OS's provide EQR rather than Lambda (or vice-versa) ]
[ noting that AFR = Lambda*StoichAFR ]

WO2BEN definitions for various ECMs:
LS1: CALC.WO2BEN = "{EXT.WO2LAM1}*{GM.EQIVRATIO}"
E38: CALC.WO2BEN = "{EXT.WO2LAM1}/{SAE.LAMBDA}"
else: CALC.WO2BEN = "{EXT.WO2LAM1}/({GM.AFR}/14.63)"

is that what you're using for E38 (the second one)...?

example:
say measured lambda was 0.9 and commanded lambda was 1.0,
this means that measured lambda indicates combustion is richer than what was commanded,
the BEN factor is 0.9/1.0 = 0.9
so to correct the difference between measured and commanded Lambdas, the table sourcing the airmass calculation has to be multiplied by 0.9.

[joecar]

There's a section in the scantool user manual pdf regarding calc pids.

[TJWells]

is that what you're using for E38 (the second one)...?

Where would I check to see if this is what I'm using? In the CALC.PIDS text file or when I pick the pid to log or somewhere else even?

[joecar]

is that what you're using for E38 (the second one)...?

Where would I check to see if this is what I'm using? In the CALC.PIDS text file or when I pick the pid to log or somewhere else even?In the scantool, on the PIDs tab, on the pid CALC.WO2BEN do rightclick->More Info and see what it says...

also, look in your calc_pids.txt file, look at how the CLC is defined for CALC.WO2BEN.

[joecar]

Post your calc_pids.txt file here so I can look at it (sanity check).

[TJWells]

Heres what I see when I right click.
14963

Can you tell me which folder I should look in to find calc_pids.text file for you to look at. I swear I have copied that file a dozen times, but I can't find it now!

I tried a small log to see if I have the map and pids set up right and I failed. :wallbash:

[TJWells]

Found It!
14964

[TJWells]

14967
Ok why wont the D and E maps work?

[TJWells]

Morning!
Ok latest log I've done trying to log B1097,B1098. When I open my maps I have lines through all parameters. If I goto the pids tab I can highlight calc.W02ben and then I have no line through it in my map. However MAF (g/sec.) and MAFFREQ (Hz) I can't get to report. I am using BBX to record data and the only pids I can find are MAF and MAFFREQ2. What am I doing wrong.?

[Jayrcr3]

I believe you need to log MAFREQ2 on the E38. It's the one I use for my Camaro.

[TJWells]

I believe you need to log MAFREQ2 on the E38. It's the one I use for my Camaro.

That's what I thought too. so I logged that originally and I still have a line through it on my map.

[Jayrcr3]

1497314974I'm not an expert at this, but I will tell you what I see by looking at your log posted above.

In your PID's tab you don't have "BEN Factor Bank 1, Serial Wideband, E38 style"
selected. This is the PID that should be selected in your MAP "Parameter" under the data tab of the map.

Looking at your log, once I selected that PID and changed the parameter to BEN Factor Bank 1..... the map comes up for me.

[TJWells]

Thanks for the help Jay.
Can I use this to correct B1097 and B1098?
Those tables use MAFFREQ In Hz. and MAF g/sec. Your table uses MAFFREQ and RPM. I was trying to setup per Joecar's post 13 this thread If this works I'll use it and be done.

[Jayrcr3]

You can change the column value to MAF g/sec. It will still work.

I just loaded my tune, and can't find B1097 and B1098 tables for my 2011 Camaro. The only Maf Table I can find is B1099. It's the MAF Frequency Conversion table. This is the one that I have adjusted to dial in the MAF.

After you get a log done you will copy the values from the MAF map in the scan tool and paste and multiply them into your tune. This will slightly adjust your MAF table to dial it in.

14975

[joecar]

14967
Ok why wont the D and E maps work?Post screenshots of their properties.

[joecar]

That's what I thought too. so I logged that originally and I still have a line through it on my map.On the map...?

Did MAFFREQ2 log...?

[joecar]

1497314974I'm not an expert at this, but I will tell you what I see by looking at your log posted above.

In your PID's tab you don't have "BEN Factor Bank 1, Serial Wideband, E38 style"
selected. This is the PID that should be selected in your MAP "Parameter" under the data tab of the map.

Looking at your log, once I selected that PID and changed the parameter to BEN Factor Bank 1..... the map comes up for me.No... use CALC.WO2BEN as defined above.

[TJWells]

149761497714978
My column and rows say not selected but they are in the pid tab.
I'm confused

Oops.. I just recently changed the map to see if maffreq2 would show up without a line through it, and it did.

[TJWells]

Joe,
Will this work?
14982149831498414985
I have no lines in #4 now.

[joecar]

Thanks for the help Jay.
Can I use this to correct B1097 and B1098?
Those tables use MAFFREQ In Hz. and MAF g/sec. Your table uses MAFFREQ and RPM. I was trying to setup per Joecar's post 13 this thread If this works I'll use it and be done.You can use WO2BEN to correct B1097 and B1098... you have to create a scantool map for each of those tables (in tunetool do copy-with-labels of B1097, in scantool map click Paste Labels; repeat for B1098.

You will need to log MAFFREQ or MAFFREQ2, whichever one works.

[TJWells]

Thank You Joe!
once I checked the selected box and had all the right pids I figured it out. The name that shows up on the map is generic compared to the pid your logging. Kept throwing me off. I was being specific to pick the correct parameter and didn't pick a selected one.

[joecar]

Joe,
Will this work?
14982149831498414985
I have no lines in #4 now.That should work.

[TJWells]

Thanks Joe, you're the best!

[Jayrcr3]

I don't have WO2.BEN available for selection on mine.

[TJWells]

I don't have WO2.BEN available for selection on mine.
Which engine code and year do you have?

[Jayrcr3]

2011 Camaro LS3. I believe the engine code is W for the LS3.
I'm using an Innovate LC-1 serial WB. My MAF is pretty close, but I have a fat spot in the mid range I need to take care of. I was following this thread to try and see if I was doing it right. Then I opened my mouth and gave you bad info. Lol :o

I can't find the CALC.WO2BEN listed anywhere in the PID's.

[TJWells]

Well... It's definitely an e38(which you already know!)
if eighth digit of vin is a W it's definitely an ls3.
Otherwise... it's an L99 both are 6.2L.
I'll send you a screen shot of my pid selection when I get home. How do you log laptop or BBX?

[joecar]

2011 Camaro LS3. I believe the engine code is W for the LS3.
I'm using an Innovate LC-1 serial WB. My MAF is pretty close, but I have a fat spot in the mid range I need to take care of. I was following this thread to try and see if I was doing it right. Then I opened my mouth and gave you bad info. Lol :o

I can't find the CALC.WO2BEN listed anywhere in the PID's.


The CALC.WO2BEN pid is in the calc_pids file that TJW attached to post #22 above: calc_pids.txt (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14964&d=1367676677)

It's not that it's bad info or the wrong pid... using lambda rather than AFR is just a better option for various reasons (including differing fuel stoich ratio).

[TJWells]

The CALC.WO2BEN pid is in the calc_pids file that TJW attached to post #22 above: calc_pids.txt (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14964&d=1367676677)

It's not that it's bad info or the wrong pid... using lambda rather than AFR is just a better option for various reasons (including differing fuel stoich ratio).
:exactly:
Using lambda as a multiplier makes so much more sense to me.

[joecar]

Also, if you look in some recent tuning books (e.g. Banish), the authors recommend using lambda.

[Jayrcr3]

It shows up in my calc_pids file, but its not there when I use the drop down menu to select it.

[TJWells]

It shows up in my calc_pids file, but its not there when I use the drop down menu to select it.
Can you post your calc_pids file here?
Also how are you logging?
14992
This is my pid selection. I have always read to keep it under 24 channels.

[Jayrcr3]

14993

I use BBL most of the time. My laptop battery took a crap a few weeks ago.

[TJWells]

Do you have these pids selected?
EXT.WO2LAM1}/{SAE.LAMBDA
look at the clc line in your cal_pids text.
CALC.WO2BEN F110 CLC-00-110 factor Tuning "BEN from Serial WB"
*CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{EXT.WO2LAM1}/{SAE.LAMBDA}"

Any calc. pid is a pid calculated from two or more other pids(basically).
If those are not selected you can't use calc_wo2.ben. You must also have all pids selected to find it.

[joecar]

It shows up in my calc_pids file, but its not there when I use the drop down menu to select it.Post screenshots of this...

and also of the PIDs tab doing rightclick->More Info on the pid.

[joecar]

Do you have these pids selected?
EXT.WO2LAM1}/{SAE.LAMBDA
look at the clc line in your cal_pids text.
CALC.WO2BEN F110 CLC-00-110 factor Tuning "BEN from Serial WB"
*CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{EXT.WO2LAM1}/{SAE.LAMBDA}"

Any calc. pid is a pid calculated from two or more other pids(basically).
If those are not selected you can't use calc_wo2.ben. You must also have all pids selected to find it.+1

like TJW said, you have to select all the pids that a calc pid references.

[Jayrcr3]

Ok. I thought it would still come up as a selectable option in the map, it would just have a line through it.

Thanks guys.

[TJWells]

This is how it should look, I have the pid in my selection already and I have my pointer on the selection!

15001

Pid selection in 7.5.

15002

[Jayrcr3]

I cannot find BEN from Serial WB (CALC.WO2BEN) anywhere. Its not in the list. WTF?
I even took the laptop out and hooked it up and validated all the PID's.

[TJWells]

Hmm...
1 Do you have the newest updates loaded?
2 Are you in scantool with no log files loaded?
3 Clear the pid list and start selecting, make sure you have All selected at system and uncheck supported.

We'll start there!

[Jayrcr3]

It is the latest version. I'll start from scratch when I get home tonight. :banghead:

[joecar]

In the V7 scantool, on the PIDs tab, click on the column title/heading 'Parameter' (click on the word 'Parameter' itself) once or twice... this will alphabetically sort the pid list on this column, so you can just scroll until you see CALC.WO2BEN;

also do what TJW said in post #55.

Also, make sure your calc_pids.txt file has at least 2 blank lines at the end.

[Jayrcr3]

Will do.
I downloaded the calc_pids.txt file TJ posted just to make sure, but it didn't make a difference. I must have looked through the PID's 10 times last night. I'm becoming cross-eyed.

[joecar]

Post a few screenshots of what you see...

[Jayrcr3]

15014

Here's a shot with all the same PID's TJ has selected, selected on my scan tool.

[joecar]

Click on the word "Parameter" (the heading/title of the column on the RHS).

[Jayrcr3]

15015

[TJWells]

15016

Try to open my pid file.
Youre gonna have to save it into your file.
folder: Documents,EFIlive,7.5,pids

15017

[TJWells]

let me know If Im oversimplifying this for you. I like picture pages, I'm a guy, were visual animals! And I need all the help I can get.

[Jayrcr3]

Still nothing. Are you using the April 23rd release? I notice on your BEN pid it says "tuning" in the system column. Mine say "tune", and a search reveals I have no PID's that say "tuning" in the entire list. Something fishy going on with my setup.

15018

[TJWells]

7.5.7 build 230

[TJWells]

15020

Open this log and see if you have calc.w02_ben as a selectable pid.

[joecar]

15015Did you copy TJW's calc_pids.txt file to your User Configuration folder...?

[Jayrcr3]

Did you copy TJW's calc_pids.txt file to your User Configuration folder...?

Yes sir.

I also tried a fresh install. I even deleted the EFI Live registry keys, and folders before the new installation.

[joecar]

In scantool. go Edit->Properties>Folders and see what folder it says for User Configuration.

[Jayrcr3]

D:\Users\Jay\Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration. I have EFILive installed on Drive D on my PC. It is looking in the right place.

"Open this log and see if you have calc.w02_ben as a selectable pid."

Nope, same thing.

[joecar]

Did you copy TJW's calc_pids.txt file to that same folder...?

( if the scantool was seeing that calc_pids.txt file then it would see the pid CALC.WO2BEN )

[Jayrcr3]

Yes.
It's not showing up on my laptop either, and it's a normal "C" drive installation.

[joecar]

Goto the User Configuration folder mentioned by Edit->Properties->Folders and view the contents of the calc_pids.txt file to verify it is the correct file.

[Jayrcr3]

15023

OMG! OMG! I found it!!!!!!!!!

IDK what was going on, but I just re downloaded TJ's calc_pids.txt file. I drug it into the new folder and hit copy and replace, and just opened scan tool and THERE IT IS!

The only thing I did differently than I did the last 5 or 6 times was copy and replace. Before I changed the .txt extension on the original file to .txt1 in order to keep the original file when I dropped in the new one. That's what caused the problem.

Thanks to both of you for sticking it out and helping. I would have given up on me 3 days ago. lol

[TJWells]

Well someone on here helped me in the same manner in the past(Joecar,Swingtan) It's my favorite part of this forum and I hope it stays that way!

[Jayrcr3]

I was afraid it was going to be something stupid. I copy and replaced on my laptop and it fixed it too. Should be pretty easy to get her dialed in from here.

Thanks again.

[joecar]

Cool :cheers:

stuff happens, no worries :cheers:

[Jayrcr3]

Thanks again guys. Took two logs yesterday, and got her dialed in.

[TJWells]

No Problem
:wavetowel2:

[joecar]

Thanks again guys. Took two logs yesterday, and got her dialed in.How does she drive, how is throttle response, what are trims like...?

[Jayrcr3]

It drives great. It already ran pretty good. I had it professionally tuned when my blower was installed. It's a MAF only tune. It just had a rich spot about 3000 rpm that was driving me nuts when I would see the gauge go from 11.4 to 10.8. It's nearly dead on commanded now. The LT fuel trims are permanently disabled in my tune.