Fls, Mpc, Epr files

[modpcm]

Hi All, now that we have a menu to import Jtag files, where can we get info about those files ?. I would ike to know what software are "approved" or ok to generates fls,mpc,epr files to be used by Efilive. Also can raw bin files from tis2web could be used ?
Thanks

[GMPX]

Hi All, now that we have a menu to import Jtag files, where can we get info about those files ?. I would ike to know what software are "approved" or ok to generates fls,mpc,epr files to be used by Efilive.
I know this sounds bad and really confusing considering it is our software, but we have been asked not to tell anyone what JTAG hardware to use. :angel_innocent:


Also can raw bin files from tis2web could be used ?
No, they do not contain all the segments required. TIS2WEB only downloads what is required to update the ECM to whatever GM's latest is, there is more (required) data in the ECM that can only be accessed via the JTAG devices.

[modpcm]

I know this sounds bad and really confusing considering it is our software, but we have been asked not to tell anyone what JTAG hardware to use. :angel_innocent:




Thanks for the quick reply, is that mean that new jtag menu is not for all user but only for some with special license

[GMPX]

No it's for everyone, but, you will have to do the ground work to figure out what hardware the tuners out there doing this are using, again, we just agreed to those terms with the instigators of this option.

[Brayden]

instigators.. lmao

[catman3126]

Yeah yeah I get it. I think I'm sitting on a sweet piece of equipment on the shelf with no time to learn the in's and out's of it.

[GMPX]

From what I remember when this was all unfolding (and we don't own one of these Euro tuning things), the cost is around $7K for it.

[catman3126]

From what I remember when this was all unfolding (and we don't own one of these Euro tuning things), the cost is around $7K for it.

Yeah I'm a little over 6k got the once piece. But I'll be into it 7 by the time I get a few more pieces

[rcr1978]

Is there like quarterly or 6 months fees to keep that stuff usable anyways I thought it was $1000+ a year just to use it :doh::ranting: Kinda hard for a hobbyist to justify it, back when I was looking into it a guy would have to tune 10+ vehicles a month just to even think about justifying it.

[catman3126]

Is there like quarterly or 6 months fees to keep that stuff usable anyways I thought it was $1000+ a year just to use it :doh::ranting: Kinda hard a hobbyist to justify it, back when I was looking into it a guy would have to tune 10+ vehicles a month just to even think about justifying it.

You would be correct.

[GMPX]

Not sure why you would even buy it now anyway, AT was the only solution before EFILive supported the LML (which we've done for about two years now). It doesn't give you anything more than really expensive hardware that is a total pain to use, it is not a magic bullet by any means. I had no idea about the on-going subscription fees.

[catman3126]

it will always work if you don't pay the subscription but you just won't get new ECM's or protocols as they come out.

[catman3126]

Not sure why you would even buy it now anyway, AT was the only solution before EFILive supported the LML (which we've done for about two years now). It doesn't give you anything more than really expensive hardware that is a total pain to use, it is not a magic bullet by any means. I had no idea about the on-going subscription fees.

So what about for Cummins? We don't have full parameters for cummins. Yet those are still getting deleted as tunes downloaded currently.

[GMPX]

AT won't work on Cummins ECM's, I don't know how other tuners are doing what they do, but you all know why we won't offer it.

[catman3126]

AT won't work on Cummins ECM's, I don't know how other tuners are doing what they do, but you all know why we won't offer it.

Want to screen a screen shot? And I guess I missed why you don't offer it?

[GMPX]

Forum search function will give you the answer, its been done to death.
Re what AT will work on, TBH I don't really know (or care), we don't own one, I'm just passing on what I hear.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

For anyone considering the investment in extracting raw bins from ecms with an AT, this is what you are required to have.

The third party software/hardware, invest $6k-$7k

A bench harness/ecm for LML, avg investment $800-$1000

Yearly Subscription to TIS ( GM ONLY ) which the service programming is $1000-$1400/year last time I checked

A way to bench program and then boot read the ecm, TECH2 $2500 or Mongoose Cable $600 or an MDI $2000 for programming alone.

So if you think investing $10k to get stock ( BIN) files makes financial sense, when Kory and I and a few others have made it quite reasonable to buy them in EFI-Live Format then I think that $10K must be burning a hole in peoples pockets.

A raw bin file is like looking at CHINESE, there are no labels, there are no markers, there is nothing that will help you to do what your trying to do and without a way to decipher that code its like looking to assemble a 10,000 piece puzzle with no picture on the box.

There is a reason that very few people are doing these, we are not hobbyist tuners, its not a dig at anyone who is a hobby tuner, but the reality is that unless you want to spend a lot of time and a lot of money to do this, you are just not going to be able to easily do any of this, and your sales volume will have to be such to support the effort to even get it started.

Good Luck

[DURAtotheMAX]

A bench harness/ecm for LML, avg investment $800-$1000

For a spare LML ECM??? I have like $14 in my bench harness, and LML ECM's can be had from the junkyard for $250.


Yearly Subscription to TIS ( GM ONLY ) which the service programming is $1000-$1400/year last time I checked

You can also do a 2-day subscription for $50


A way to bench program and then boot read the ecm, TECH2 $2500 or Mongoose Cable $600 or an MDI $2000 for programming alone.

Im not going to talk about the "clones" that cost peanuts and work fine, but a "legit" J2534 alternative option is the Tactrix cable, its $169 and works with TIS2WEB. Does not support J1850VPW though, CAN only.

http://www.tactrix.com/index.php



A raw bin file is like looking at CHINESE, there are no labels, there are no markers, there is nothing that will help you to do what your trying to do and without a way to decipher that code its like looking to assemble a 10,000 piece puzzle with no picture on the box.

But if you have some special bits, it makes it a lot easier. :)

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Ben, I am glad you can build a Bench Harness from all your spare parts for $14, many cannot and will need to source them elsewhere or its just not worth our time to spend on it when we can readily buy the stuff and have it just come in a box, many are not as talented as you are with respect to wiring and building electronics.

Yes you sure can get a 2/day for $50, but I process sometimes 15-20 TIS tunes a day, so for me its not worth going there for $50 a clip, I supply 2001-2015 Tunes to a lot of shops and other tuners.

I have all the above mentioned hardware in my post, I might not need it all to be legitimate and I am sure the "clones" work just fine, but to each their own.

I tried a Chinese CANDI Module and it was junk and worked 1 out of every 10 times I needed to use it, so I bought the real one and its been flawless, just like my TECH2 is genuine and not a CHINA CLONE.

If I have a need for a new bench harness, and if your willing to build me one for $25 or $14, I sure will send the business your way, as that would be a nice savings over the $125 or so I paid for the LML one I have without the power supply and the extra things I added to it so that I can do what I want with it.

Thanks for letting the others know there are alternatives available, as information is good to have.

[kidturbo]

Catman, tell ya what to use that JTAG tool for... Reverse engineering the OS of all these other BOSCH ECM's out there that EFIlive could easily be used for. Like the VW and MB common rail platforms. Basically "Identical" to the Dmax and C in all hardware aspects, besides the OS. I'll happily send ya couple for starters to play with.

You guys do know it's legit now to write your own ECU OS? No different than rooting or jail breaking a cell phone. Maybe this will help open up more of that information..

https://www.eff.org/mention/dmca-ruling-ensures-you-cant-be-sued-hacking-your-car-your-games-or-your-iphone

[GMPX]

Catman, tell ya what to use that JTAG tool for... Reverse engineering the OS of all these other BOSCH ECM's out there that EFIlive could easily be used for. Like the VW and MB common rail platforms.
This is partly true, operational concept is the same but there is a few key differences in CAN comms for reading/flashing that make it difficult for us to support every EDC16/17 ECM out there.


You guys do know it's legit now to write your own ECU OS?
Write your own ECU OS! Wow.

[kidturbo]

A while back when researching tuners for the W211 E320 CDI, all I found was the JTAG route, and like one CAN based option. That one fetches about as much as a V2, and allows you to do one ECM... May as well go with a genuine Bosch tuner. While the Benz CDI and Sprinters have shared a ECM for quite a while. So there's your market to support development on "common" platforms.

The other one that needs some serious love is the MEFI5a used on GM Performance setups like the COPO Camaro. That same E67 unit powers the largest percentage of performance watercraft in the world. It's CANbus protocol is SAE J1939, which makes it very popular for engine swaps to. I know it's been brought up on here before, but feel someone is missing the boat, load of sales.




Write your own ECU OS! Wow.

Legitimately...

Modify, tweak, copy/paste. Can even disassemble, then post those hidden tricks used by manufactures to fake emissions tests. Is that where the Bosch DSP mod actually came from ??

:cucumber:

[GMPX]

The other one that needs some serious love is the MEFI5a used on GM Performance setups like the COPO Camaro. That same E67 unit powers the largest percentage of performance watercraft in the world. It's CANbus protocol is SAE J1939, which makes it very popular for engine swaps to. I know it's been brought up on here before, but feel someone is missing the boat, load of sales.
Yeah we have one here and you are right there is a big market, but there is only so many hours in the day.


Modify, tweak, copy/paste. Can even disassemble, then post those hidden tricks used by manufactures to fake emissions tests.
For a modified EDC17 OS you would need to create the correct RSA signature for it to work...might be a bit of a problem. :bawl:


Is that where the Bosch DSP mod actually came from ??
No not at all, we didn't trick in to some special mode.

[kidturbo]

Yeah we have one here and you are right there is a big market, but there is only so many hours in the day.

Great, please let me know when ya have something to test. I'm sure you have reviewed the "other" tuner hardware available.


For a modified EDC17 OS you would need to create the correct RSA signature for it to work...might be a bit of a problem. :bawl:

Maybe the EU tuner guys like Malone have a quantum computer running over there to decrepit the key.. There is another way, they've been tuning these diesel MB and VW's for a long time now...


No not at all, we didn't trick in to some special mode.

I'd love to see that raw bin data sorted out. According to today's news, not even VW understands how it works... LOL. But Audi and Porsche just made recall list too.. It's obviously a canbus request based msg to change the tables. I know from my MB that the IC displays "Dyno Mode" under special services available with dash button inputs. I just haven't taken time to captured that raw packets to replicate it. But this does give some incite to how easily tunes "can" be changed with only simple wheel button combinations, rather than hardwire...
"
Sorry for the highjack. Back to Dodge.

[GMPX]

Great, please let me know when ya have something to test. I'm sure you have reviewed the "other" tuner hardware available.
I may have given you the wrong impression......
We have one sitting here collecting dust under a pile of junk :D


Maybe the EU tuner guys like Malone have a quantum computer running over there to decrepit the key.. There is another way, they've been tuning these diesel MB and VW's for a long time now...
Not all Bosch ECM's have RSA sig active, not all ECM's have RSA active on OBD-II flashing. You can't trick it, most of the bypassed ECM's need to be JTAG'd first and killed off that way, something not really in line with us. But this is the primary reason that EFILive has not contemplated DSP for the LML (regular tuning of course is no problem). As you know we've done DSP (or CSP) for every other Diesel ECM we support tuning for, we know how to write the code but sometimes the game can't be played.
If RSA (or SHA-1 hashes) could be beaten then the world is in more trouble than Bosch ECM's being cracked wide open.
https://konklone.com/post/why-google-is-hurrying-the-web-to-kill-sha-1

[kidturbo]

I may have given you the wrong impression......
We have one sitting here collecting dust under a pile of junk :D


Need a kickstarter campaign to get development rolling? I've had more people ask about MEFI5 lately than all others. The current software leaves much to be desired. I've even considered swapping them out with a standard E67, but that requires pinout changes. So please reconsider it's market value. A DSP2 option in MEFI5 tuning would be a hot item since the performance marine guys are into variable boost and timing based on fuel options. Selectable tuning is fueling the aftermarket ECM market in this area.

[GMPX]

Not going to happy sorry, kickstarter or not.

Cheers,
Ross