E92 ECM support released

[GMPX]

Yes it's true, if you believed everything you read on the internet then this post was never going to be made by tuning companies, but it's real and in an industry first (yet again!) our NEW RELEASE (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?22635-Update-May-20-2013) has added read and flash support for the new E92 ECM. This ECM is GM's new flagship controller for the new 2014 range of Direct Injection engines (SIDI / EcoTec3). The 2014 trucks using this new engine are at the dealers now, so head on down with your credit card and see what sort of a deal GM can do for you, or wait a few months for the 2014 LT1 powered Covette. :mrgreen:

E92 FAQ:
Q - Will the ECM log tune changes?
A - Yes it certainly does and EFILive will not allow any bypassing of this, if you flash a modified tune in your dealer will know, even if it's set back to stock.

Q - What other 2014+ vehicles is this ECM going to be used on?
A - At the time of writing we don't know, all the SIDI/EcoTec3 engines will be using either the E39A or E92, we will know for sure as more 2014 models reach the dealer lots.

Q - Will the E92 be able to do 'x' and 'y'?
A - Probably everything but make a cup of coffee, it's the premium direct injection controller therefore I don't think GM would have designed all new ECM's only to fall short on functionality.

Q - Can it do 2bar?
A - Of course, like all ECM's from about 2006+ it was designed from factory to handle up to 255kPa of MAP.

Q - What about Speed Density (MAF-less) tuning?
A - We can't confirm this in the real world, but everything indicates yes and of course the Virtual VE tables are already implemented should you choose to go down that path (see below).

Here's some E92 screen shots to get you inspired....

http://download.efilive.com/Email/E92_Read_960x644b.png


http://download.efilive.com/Email/E92_Flash_960x644.png

http://download.efilive.com/Email/E92_VVE_1126x687.png

[Redline Motorsports]

Well played.... Lol!

Now the art of control is the next step.... Strap in the show has just begun....

HT

[ScarabEpic22]

Fantastic! Looks like there are a few tables mapped already too (with more on the way Im sure)!

You ready Howard?! Once you pick your C7 up I bet before you leave the parking lot EFILive will have your file to map the Vette OS. :D

[GMPX]

Fantastic! Looks like there are a few tables mapped already too (with more on the way Im sure)!
Oh yeah, well under way, but when the final cal release comes out there will be a new special feature never seen before :gossip:


You ready Howard?! Once you pick your C7 up I bet before you leave the parking lot EFILive will have your file to map the Vette OS. :D
I'm betting Howard will give the guy in pre-delivery inspection a V2 for the day to speed the process up.

[DURAtotheMAX]

awesome, just awesome!! Great work EFILive crew!!!

I remember all the debbie-downers in the threads on LS1Tech that swore up and down the ECM wouldnt be crackable, its too complicated, has multiple virtual environments, etc....blah blah blah.

Ross, not that Im a computer engineer/software expert and would completely understand, but do you think you could go into a bit of detail about the inner workings of the E92 controller? Like is there any super cool/breakthrough technology inside it? Is it "super cutting edge" with out of this world processing power/capabilities, or is it just a hum-drum small step up from the previous generation ECM's? Is it looking like its going to be a nice ECM for tuners to work with or are there going to be "quirks" that might make a bit of a learning curve for tuners?

Is it Delphi or someone else? Was it "hard" to crack compared to other ECM's you've worked with?

Sorry for all the questions, and I understand if you need to keep some stuff secret.....but basically im just curious about the technical nitty-gritty of it, considering all the nay-sayers there were about the "tunability" of the E92.

Ben

[GMPX]

I remember all the debbie-downers in the threads on LS1Tech that swore up and down the ECM wouldnt be crackable, its too complicated, has multiple virtual environments, etc....blah blah blah.
I think regardless of what bit of technology we are talking about people will spread unsubstantiated rumours. Maybe those posters really thought it was all for real, I don't know. Lets all be thankful to GM that we can tune them, nobody wants to see our performance industry collapse or be forced to aftermarket ECM's.


but do you think you could go into a bit of detail about the inner workings of the E92 controller? Like is there any super cool/breakthrough technology inside it? Is it "super cutting edge" with out of this world processing power/capabilities, or is it just a hum-drum small step up from the previous generation ECM's? Is it looking like its going to be a nice ECM for tuners to work with or are there going to be "quirks" that might make a bit of a learning curve for tuners?
The funny thing is I couldn't tell you what is inside, they weld the back covers on!! But it is a more powerful PowerPC processor compared to even the E39 & E78 ECM's. I was expecting to brick at least one during bootloader developemt so I could have an excuse to cut one open, but thankfully everything went pretty smoothly so they all remain in tact, but no visual details of the inners now.
The people tuning the E39A will find the E92 very familiar.


Is it Delphi or someone else? Was it "hard" to crack compared to other ECM's you've worked with?
It is a Delphi (or GM Component Holdings) as the sticker says. It was no bigger challenge than the other gas ECM's we've done recently, it was certainly not in the same league as the LML's EDC17!

Cheers,
Ross

[DrkPhx]

Wow, that's awesome news! Great job. Can you see if it's E85 capable?

[GMPX]

Absolutely, this ECM is the hamburger with the lot, however like it's predecessors if GM haven't done the ground work on specific platforms to be E85 capable then it'll be hard to just 'switch on' full E85 capability.
The 5.3L L83 is E85 capable and uses a real sensor, not estimation. Of course we haven't seen a Corvette LT1 tune yet so who knows with them.

[Highlander]

Do they use wideband O2s?

[DrkPhx]

Absolutely, this ECM is the hamburger with the lot, however like it's predecessors if GM haven't done the ground work on specific platforms to be E85 capable then it'll be hard to just 'switch on' full E85 capability.
The 5.3L L83 is E85 capable and uses a real sensor, not estimation. Of course we haven't seen a Corvette LT1 tune yet so who knows with them.

Hurry up Howard at Redline and get your C7. We need to see if it's set up for E85. :)

[GMPX]

Do they use wideband O2s?
I don't believe so.

[wesam]

So if the E92 will come 2014 C7 nad 2014+ truck when could we purchase the stream license :good:

[ScarabEpic22]

Oh yeah, well under way, but when the final cal release comes out there will be a new special feature never seen before :gossip:

Fantastic, eta on cal release v7.00 or 7.01?

Im hoping the E67 cals will be updated with the new TQ Model stuff soon!

[GMPX]

So if the E92 will come 2014 C7 nad 2014+ truck when could we purchase the stream license :good:
We are still trying to figure out the fairest way to offer some sort of stream option for these late model ECM's, we haven't forgotten.


Im hoping the E67 cals will be updated with the new TQ Model stuff soon!
Well, of course the torque coeffs have been in EFILive for years, however when we update the torque model manipulation cals it will include every ECM that uses it.

[Red98C5]

Q - Will the ECM log tune changes?
A - Yes it certainly does and EFILive will not allow any bypassing of this, if you flash a modified tune in your dealer will know, even if it's set back to stock.

If you buy a new controller and flash that one, will the dealer still know if you put the "stock" OEM unit back in?

[c.u]

q - will the ecm log tune changes?
A - yes it certainly does and efilive will not allow any bypassing of this, if you flash a modified tune in your dealer will know, even if it's set back to stock.

if you buy a new controller and flash that one, will the dealer still know if you put the "stock" oem unit back in?

no.

[GMPX]

They log travelled miles too, they'll know.

[hog]

They log travelled miles too, they'll know.

That settles it then, anyone wishing to have a modified GEN 5 LT1 C7 is just going to have to buy 2 of them and keep 1 stock.

SOme creative ingenuity will get around these issues. GM isnt expecting the ECM to stay stock in the hands of enthusiasts. OEM's should be embracing modifications to the ECM, they could make a lot of money if they played their card right.

peace
Hog

[gmh308]

So cool! 5 months from not knowing what was inside to being setup for tuning the uncrackable E92. Congratulations for this world first again!!! Just like E85 Flex Fuel 3 years at least before the competition got there.

In the context of internet rumors, reading this set of posts on LS1Tech is very amusing.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-v-internal-engine/1595424-new-lt1-2014-6-2l-alum-block-4.html

Someone posing anonymously as a GM engineer made claims of dual virtual machine architecture with hypervisor controls:

Obviously this guy was a Robot as one reader concluded.

Quote: "As I've stated... The ECM and please refer to these as the ECM's is Now a virtual client. The ECM has a microprocessor that is now virtualize. Unlike before.. What that means is means is the ENGINE MANAGEMENT DEVELOPERS put more than one operating system on this single processor. The hypervisor separates between each OS. The OS modeling through a new authoring feature and IP specification import function. Through TLS and TLM as well as can be used in a wide variety of applications including systems such as engine and transmission control, braking systems, power steering systems, chassis domain control, airbags, advanced driver assistance systems, and infotainment systems.

The virtualization easily allows the system to overwrite any changes or deny unauthorized access. This ECM contains software tools enabling greater visibility and controllability into the system software execution.

Bigg Gunz"

"The fuel event system will not be tunable in the after market...why are someone people not understanding that the fuel tables concerning this particular engine is completely and totally off limits? The ECM is only tunable from GM servers if and when problems arises as a virtual client ECM.

Sure the someone can develop a standalone ECM to run the engine. But only after research, reversing engineering and then development. Find a supplier of quality electronic components and boards. Then you have to deal with testing and regression analysis. This ECM uses a superior processor. The cost of this is substantial far out weight any performance gains for the consumer. If possible wait until the official outputs on the LT1 VVT are out. If this engine isn't enough in power something on the horizon will tickle your heart.

Stay positive this isn't the end all of performance.

This is for your safety.

Bigg Gunz"

[c.u]

They log travelled miles too, they'll know.
Did not know he was talking about 08 and newer ecm`s.

[joecar]

Good job :cheers:

[DURAtotheMAX]

So cool! 5 months from not knowing what was inside to being setup for tuning the uncrackable E92. Congratulations for this world first again!!! Just like E85 Flex Fuel 3 years at least before the competition got there.

In the context of internet rumors, reading this set of posts on LS1Tech is very amusing.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-v-internal-engine/1595424-new-lt1-2014-6-2l-alum-block-4.html

Someone posing anonymously as a GM engineer made claims of dual virtual machine architecture with hypervisor controls:

Obviously this guy was a Robot as one reader concluded.

Quote: "As I've stated... The ECM and please refer to these as the ECM's is Now a virtual client. The ECM has a microprocessor that is now virtualize. Unlike before.. What that means is means is the ENGINE MANAGEMENT DEVELOPERS put more than one operating system on this single processor. The hypervisor separates between each OS. The OS modeling through a new authoring feature and IP specification import function. Through TLS and TLM as well as can be used in a wide variety of applications including systems such as engine and transmission control, braking systems, power steering systems, chassis domain control, airbags, advanced driver assistance systems, and infotainment systems.

The virtualization easily allows the system to overwrite any changes or deny unauthorized access. This ECM contains software tools enabling greater visibility and controllability into the system software execution.

Bigg Gunz"

"The fuel event system will not be tunable in the after market...why are someone people not understanding that the fuel tables concerning this particular engine is completely and totally off limits? The ECM is only tunable from GM servers if and when problems arises as a virtual client ECM.

Sure the someone can develop a standalone ECM to run the engine. But only after research, reversing engineering and then development. Find a supplier of quality electronic components and boards. Then you have to deal with testing and regression analysis. This ECM uses a superior processor. The cost of this is substantial far out weight any performance gains for the consumer. If possible wait until the official outputs on the LT1 VVT are out. If this engine isn't enough in power something on the horizon will tickle your heart.

Stay positive this isn't the end all of performance.

This is for your safety.

Bigg Gunz"

Ross, is any shred of this mumbo-jumbo that "bigg gunz" posted actually true about the E92?

[GMPX]

Sounds like a load of bollocks.

[GTPprix]

Sounds like a load of bollocks.

Ill second that ;)

[ScarabEpic22]

"Uncrackable", ok sure thing. Didnt GM say that about the E39 too?

When will everyone learn that calling something "uncrackable" or "unhackable" means it will be at the top of someone's list to crack asap? It's a challenge that (so far) always results in it being cracked. ECMs, software, etc.

[GTPprix]

"Uncrackable", ok sure thing. Didnt GM say that about the E39 too?

When will everyone learn that calling something "uncrackable" or "unhackable" means it will be at the top of someone's list to crack asap? It's a challenge that (so far) always results in it being cracked. ECMs, software, etc.

Thats ok there is some genius on a Corvette forum telling people this:
"I suggest you do more homework as the C7 uses the Siemans PCM from Europe, not Bosch and it has been used for 3 years over there and not one person has cracked it, nor how the PCM has to connect and exchange protocol client to server
It so bad that owners of performance cars in Europe are forced to change to different PCMs and remove engine functions that older PCMs were not designed for. "

Then telling ME I dont know what I'm talking about ROFL

[GMPX]

In all fairness we can't dismiss the non hackable point. The current generation Bosch EDC17 and MED17 ECM's are causing some major problems with RSA checks during reflashing on some of those ECM's. There's just no getting around that unless Bosch give you the private key (zero chance of that), this is why many of the Euro tuners have to pull the ECM's apart to bypass that check which is only done during an OBD-II flash. It'll only get worse as processing power increases, the ECM will have more time to do complex checks before allowing the engine to run. For us GM gas guys at least it looks like we will still be doing this for another 4 or 5 years until the next generation of ECM's comes along.

In the meantime, whoever at GM did the deal with Delphi to supply ECM's for the SIDI motors and not use an MED17, we thank you :thumb_yello:

[GTPprix]

In the meantime, whoever at GM did the deal with Delphi to supply ECM's for the SIDI motors and not use an MED17, we thank you :thumb_yello:

You can thank GM Holdings for that heheh I think the days of specialty ecms are likely gone at least for the foreseeable future in high volume NA products. Who knows with you Crazy Aussies though :D

[GMPX]

From what I hear our 'new' VF Commodore is just carry over E38/E67, but knowing our luck when it's re-badged in the USA as the Chevy SS it's be the SIDI V8 :doh2:

[GTPprix]

From what I hear our 'new' VF Commodore is just carry over E38/E67, but knowing our luck when it's re-badged in the USA as the Chevy SS it's be the SIDI V8 :doh2:

Hahahhaah no we got saddled with the LS3 still :(

[GMPX]

LS3, we don't even get that!

[GTPprix]

LS3, we don't even get that!

Seriously?!?!? I mean we got it in 2009 already in the VE; no fair!!

[Boost]

Great work as always, super impressive!!! :rockon:

[gmh308]

Thats ok there is some genius on a Corvette forum telling people this:
"I suggest you do more homework as the C7 uses the Siemans PCM from Europe, not Bosch and it has been used for 3 years over there and not one person has cracked it, nor how the PCM has to connect and exchange protocol client to server
It so bad that owners of performance cars in Europe are forced to change to different PCMs and remove engine functions that older PCMs were not designed for. "

Then telling ME I dont know what I'm talking about ROFL

That's the same robot spouting that bollox. :)

[gmh308]

In all fairness we can't dismiss the non hackable point. The current generation Bosch EDC17 and MED17 ECM's are causing some major problems with RSA checks during reflashing on some of those ECM's. There's just no getting around that unless Bosch give you the private key (zero chance of that), this is why many of the Euro tuners have to pull the ECM's apart to bypass that check which is only done during an OBD-II flash. It'll only get worse as processing power increases, the ECM will have more time to do complex checks before allowing the engine to run. For us GM gas guys at least it looks like we will still be doing this for another 4 or 5 years until the next generation of ECM's comes along.

In the meantime, whoever at GM did the deal with Delphi to supply ECM's for the SIDI motors and not use an MED17, we thank you :thumb_yello:

A factory Audi calibrator indicated that even Audi has trouble with bricking Bosch controllers when they are running calibration revisions in the field.

[jah81592]

Can you post a stock file for us to look at?

[GMPX]

No sorry, the calibrations aren't finalised yet, so far two OS's seem to be out there in the wild.

[Redline Motorsports]

Fantastic! Looks like there are a few tables mapped already too (with more on the way Im sure)!

You ready Howard?! Once you pick your C7 up I bet before you leave the parking lot EFILive will have your file to map the Vette OS. :D

LOL! :angel_innocent:

I've been ready for three months. Getting in is step one......step two is comprehension....

[ScarabEpic22]

LOL! :angel_innocent:

I've been ready for three months. Getting in is step one......step two is comprehension....

Very true.

[GTPprix]

I hate to do this but if any of you would like to join in the stupidity/efi live bashing feel free!

http://www.corvette7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280391&page=2

[GMPX]

Against him!, you would be better off trying to get your point across to the guy cleaning up gum off the ground at Disneyland.

[ScarabEpic22]

Wow Chris, that's pretty f-ed up.

That JR-Vette guy can spout off all he wants, but at the end of the day EFILive HAS read/write support and is developing the calibrations RIGHT NOW. So basically, he's full of $hit.

[GTPprix]

Against him!, you would be better off trying to get your point across to the guy cleaning up gum off the ground at Disneyland.

Yup! LOL


Wow Chris, that's pretty f-ed up.

That JR-Vette guy can spout off all he wants, but at the end of the day EFILive HAS read/write support and is developing the calibrations RIGHT NOW. So basically, he's full of $hit.

Yeah basically everything hes saying is BS, the odd thing is it appears he has another account on there as well heheh

[DrkPhx]

That would be "team zr1". He used to spew hate on ls1.com back in the day against all tuning software companies when it was still in it's infancy. Didn't know he was still around and it's just a matter of time before he's banned like on most big forums. He still has his website.

[GTPprix]

That would be "team zr1". He used to spew hate on ls1.com back in the day against all tuning software companies when it was still in it's infancy. Didn't know he was still around. He still has his website.

So it really is the same guy??? Wow what a tard.

[DrkPhx]

So it really is the same guy??? Wow what a tard.

Yes. Check out his website. I edited my post above; but he's been banned on most major forums.

[GTPprix]

Yes. Check out his website. I edited my post above; but he's been banned on most major forums.

The one where he's talking to himself?

[Highlander]

You never go full Retard.... LOL.... jajajajaja....

[GTPprix]

You never go full Retard.... LOL.... jajajajaja....

I have a relatively long fuse, that genius just pushed the wrong buttons. The tirade against efi live was enough what a moron.

[Highlander]

I didn't register because you already went full retard on him... JAAAA JAJAJA..... so.... whenever i see efilive bashing i get all worked up too :) I think you used to be on my boards....

[GTPprix]

I didn't register because you already went full retard on him... JAAAA JAJAJA..... so.... whenever i see efilive bashing i get all worked up too :) I think you used to be on my boards....

Probably ;) which boards?

[hog]

He used to tirade on Monodax for a bit. He really doesnt like EFIlive's scan tool. Mainly because he sells a differnt scan tool. You giuys are giving him WAY too much air time, he's been like this for years. He has been tuning even longer.

peace
Hog

[joecar]

So it really is the same guy??? Wow what a tard.

He used to tirade on Monodax for a bit. He really doesnt like EFIlive's scan tool. Mainly because he sells a differnt scan tool. You giuys are giving him WAY too much air time, he's been like this for years. He has been tuning even longer.

peace
Hog
+1 Looks like it's the same guy... yes he's been tuning a very long time.

[GMPX]

What tuning is he using for late model stuff if he hates EFILive and HPTuners so much?

[gmh308]

He's a robot. He tunes his USB port and his powercell.

[GTPprix]

What tuning is he using for late model stuff if he hates EFILive and HPTuners so much?

A USB abacus.

[Highlander]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003450679/3538892902_Lol_94249156205_answer_1_xlarge.jpeg

[auspeed]

Great work EFI LIVE, its pretty impressive that your already have controller support for new cars as they hit the show rooms...

[GMPX]

Well to be honest as long as we can buy ECM's then we can start working on them. The actual E92's have been available from GM dealers as a spare part for many weeks, even before the 2014 vehicles hit the dealers lots.
I remember when the E86 LML Duramax was released and you couldn't order a new ECM for many months after the trucks were out (which ultimately ended up a massive disappointment anyway), we all just got lucky on the E92.

[ScarabEpic22]

Well to be honest as long as we can buy ECM's then we can start working on them. The actual E92's have been available from GM dealers as a spare part for many weeks, even before the 2014 vehicles hit the dealers lots.
I remember when the E86 LML Duramax was released and you couldn't order a new ECM for many months after the trucks were out (which ultimately ended up a massive disappointment anyway), we all just got lucky on the E92.

Yep, I saw a pic that Chris (GTPrix) posted from a month or two ago of an E92 trying to show they were publicly available.

[hog]

Finally the GEN 5 LT1 has its power rating(s)
With the standard exhaust power is the newer SAE "Certified" power of 455hp at
6000rpm/460 lb/ft torque at 4600rpm
With its optional exhaust, SAE Certified power is up to 460 hp@ 6,000rpm/465 lb/ft torque @ 4600rpm. Without a doubt, this is the highest output of any standard engine GM has ever stuffed into a production vehicle, bigblock or smallblock. It has torque that rivals the 7.0l 427 cube GEN 4 LS7 under 4700rpm.

Someone sneek under the fence with their laptop and snag an LT1 calibration for us to play with.

peace
Hog

[hog]

Finally the GEN 5 LT1 has its power rating(s)
With the standard exhaust power is the newer SAE "Certified" power of 455hp at
6000rpm/460 lb/ft torque at 4600rpm
With its optional exhaust, SAE Certified power is up to 460 hp@ 6,000rpm/465 lb/ft torque @ 4600rpm. Without a doubt, this is the highest output of any standard engine GM has ever stuffed into a production vehicle, bigblock or smallblock. It has torque that rivals the 7.0l 427 cube GEN 4 LS7 under 4700rpm.

Someone sneek under the fence with their laptop and snag an LT1 calibration for us to play with.

peace
Hog
Also from GM

3.6L twin turbo LF3 engine gets its SAE "Certified" rating The new 2014 Cadillac CTS coming out this fall get sthe new twin turbo LF3 V6 with Direct Injection is rated at 420 hp and 430 lb/ft torque with 90% of this torque available from 2500rpm-5500rpm. It features 118 hp/liter.
It features 10.2:1 compression, domed and coated pistons, tuned inlet and outlet resonators, full floating wrist pins, forged steel crank, piston oil squirters. The turbo uses a patented charge air cooling system similar to a positive displacement blower which shortens the path from turbo to the engine. All this fun is channeled to the wheels via a new 8 speed auto trans.

peace
Hog

[joecar]

If it has 430 ftlb torque then why does it need an 8 speed auto trans (i.e. instead of just using engine torque plus torque multiplication)...?

[ScarabEpic22]

Also from GM

3.6L twin turbo LF3 engine gets its SAE "Certified" rating The new 2014 Cadillac CTS coming out this fall get sthe new twin turbo LF3 V6 with Direct Injection is rated at 420 hp and 430 lb/ft torque with 90% of this torque available from 2500rpm-5500rpm. It features 118 hp/liter.
It features 10.2:1 compression, domed and coated pistons, tuned inlet and outlet resonators, full floating wrist pins, forged steel crank, piston oil squirters. The turbo uses a patented charge air cooling system similar to a positive displacement blower which shortens the path from turbo to the engine. All this fun is channeled to the wheels via a new 8 speed auto trans.

peace
Hog

I saw that as well, makes me all warm n fuzzy inside. Just needs to be put in the ATS-V!

That said, I wonder if this will be the last year for the LSA in the CTS-V then...hope not.


If it has 430 ftlb torque then why does it need an 8 speed auto trans (i.e. instead of just using engine torque plus torque multiplication)...?

Because GM is way behind the times on transmissions, heck I think some German cars are coming with 9 speeds now. Most Audis 2012+ are 8 speed. Allows for less drop between shifts, makes the power delivery feel more linear because it (power) doesnt drop off between shifts.

[joecar]

True, more gears allows closer spacing... but requires more moving parts and more gear shifts (drag racers want to minimize the number of shifts);

a large displacement engine that produces lots of torque throughout out most of the rpm range can easily be very quick with a mildly loose torque converter (as has been shown historically).

[GMPX]

8 Speed, 9 Speed, sounds like engineers playing mine is bigger than yours. I'm with Joe on this one, a decent sized engine (or that LF3 thing) will make plenty of torque everywhere, they don't need shifts happening all over the place, I bet Cadillac only stuck that trans in for the European market. I'm just thinking back to my old LS1 with a 4 speed and even that never felt like it was struggling no matter what gear because of the torque. Whereas an LFW 3.0L with a 6L60E is all over the place because the engine has no torque. I know of a shop out here who just completed a 4L80E swap in place of a 6L80E for a car that sees a lot of dragstrip action.
I believe this 8 speed auto not a GM design, it's by Aisin.

[hog]

8 Speed, 9 Speed, sounds like engineers playing mine is bigger than yours. I'm with Joe on this one, a decent sized engine (or that LF3 thing) will make plenty of torque everywhere, they don't need shifts happening all over the place, I bet Cadillac only stuck that trans in for the European market. I'm just thinking back to my old LS1 with a 4 speed and even that never felt like it was struggling no matter what gear because of the torque. Whereas an LFW 3.0L with a 6L60E is all over the place because the engine has no torque. I know of a shop out here who just completed a 4L80E swap in place of a 6L80E for a car that sees a lot of dragstrip action.
I believe this 8 speed auto not a GM design, it's by Aisin.
Is any trans really a GM design? Borg Warner, Hydramatic, Tremec, Allison etc etc.

I do agree that there is a bunch "more is better" thinking going on in regards to shifting. Whats the point of bragging about a long flat torque curve if its broken up by many a shift. Even the 6 speed auto's with their 4.03:1 1st gear upshift in the middle of a turn from a dead stop. Annoying.

Best trans auto trans would have the gearing of the thm-200r4(1st 2.74:1, 2nd 1.57: 3rd 1.00: OD 0.67:) with the strength of the 4l85e trans. Not a huge rpm drop during upshifts, and a nice deep OD ratio for cruising.

peace
Hog

[joecar]

I like the 200-4R... I also like the 4L80E/85E (2.48, 1.48, 1.00, 0.75), it has the closest ratios of the old school GM transmissions.

( I though the newer Hydra-Matic was a division of the old GM... there was an older Hydramatic company apart from the old GM, before my time )

[scdyne]

I would assume that the gears are for better MPG performance and not acceleration performance. Having the ability to cruise on the freeway at 85 MPH and a low BSFC means that we'll be seeing really high Highway MPG Ratings.. To meet the extremely high MPG requirements that will probably have to be renegotiated before the due date.

[TuneMaster]

I know of a shop out here who just completed a 4L80E swap in place of a 6L80E for a car that sees a lot of dragstrip action.


I've had a 4l80 in a VE Calais for 8 months now using E38 and T42 all working on can bus and fully functional. Had to make auto wiring loom from scratch. Even used a 4l80 file for the T42 which i have posted before. Thanks to Ross for moddifying original E38 file. :master: The car is nearly finished and has 460 rwkw so far, will be hitting the drag strip very soon. GM LSX block, mast 6 bolt cylinder heads, htv 2300, 4l80 and GForce 9" diff and axles. Two built 6l80 autos failed before this whilst similar engine was in another car so not worth the money for high horsepower cars.