600 rpm slip limit solved!!!! OS 25941752

[mitchd]

Hey guys figured I better make my first post here a good one so here it is, after countless nights awake reversing code in the a40 tcu

I HAVE FOUND AND AM ABLE TO CHANGE THE FACTORY SLIP LIMIT 625rpm!!!,

her is a log proving I have done this! I would like to test this on a few others so for anyone who wishes for me to change your limit send me a copy of your stock tcu file and i will change it to whatever you like.

I got a full binary from ross and decompiled with idapro. There is also two more colums in the tcc on ramp rate that arent available in the current
efilive calz file, this and 900+ rpm slip at lockup in third will break the tires loose!
15224

[mitchd]

here's a pic of my modified Efilive calibration to edit the slip limit and the whole TCC on ramp rate.
15227

[vortecfcar]

First of all, congratulations!

That's a worthy first post if I've ever seen one.

Did you find this as a simple Hex address or does it require you to patch the O.S. Just curious.

Ive attached the OS for you to apply the update to, or you can send me the hex adress and ill edit it.

Either way, welcome to the forum!

Nick

ps- Is there a way I can contact you privately? The PM function is not active on your user name.

[Dmaxink]

Great work!

[Dmaxink]

Hey guys figured I better make my first post here a good one so here it is, after countless nights awake reversing code in the a40 tcu

I HAVE FOUND AND AM ABLE TO CHANGE THE FACTORY SLIP LIMIT 625rpm!!!,

her is a log proving I have done this! I would like to test this on a few others so for anyone who wishes for me to change your limit send me a copy of your stock tcu file and i will change it to whatever you like.

I got a full binary from ross and decompiled with idapro. There is also two more colums in the tcc on ramp rate that arent available in the current
efilive calz file, this and 900+ rpm slip at lockup in third will break the tires loose!
15224

Heck man if you want just send me that TCU file to Kory@LAtuning.com!

I will test Monday!

Thanks,
Kory

[ScarabEpic22]

This is going to be HUGE for the Allison guys...

[THEFERMANATOR]

This is going to be HUGE for the Allison guys...

I see alot fewer lockup boxes being sold. Now if somebody could find the torque converter unlock table at 0% throttle I would be alot happier. Having the converter unlock below 55 anytime I let off the throttle regardless of where I set the unlock table is rather annoying.

[Wheelz]

Having the converter unlock below 55 anytime I let off the throttle regardless of where I set the unlock table is rather annoying.

Agreed 100%

[ScarabEpic22]

I see alot fewer lockup boxes being sold. Now if somebody could find the torque converter unlock table at 0% throttle I would be alot happier. Having the converter unlock below 55 anytime I let off the throttle regardless of where I set the unlock table is rather annoying.

Agreed, but it's a global truck issue. REALLY wish the T42s would have this table in truck OSs, not just car OSs.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Agreed, but it's a global truck issue. REALLY wish the T42s would have this table in truck OSs, not just car OSs.

I'm running the AL5, not a GM T42 TCM. The ALLISON TCM has ALOT of un-mapped parameters in it.

[ScarabEpic22]

I'm running the AL5, not a GM T42 TCM. The ALLISON TCM has ALOT of un-mapped parameters in it.

I know, Im saying in general it'd be nice if the parameter was available (essentially on ALL PCM/TCMs).

Ive hear the Allisons have a lot of unmapped params in it, but how much more is really necessary? Not trying to start anything, just honestly curious? Except for this converter slip issue with looser TCs and the TC unlocking on 0% TPS, what else do you want?

[THEFERMANATOR]

I know, Im saying in general it'd be nice if the parameter was available (essentially on ALL PCM/TCMs).

Ive hear the Allisons have a lot of unmapped params in it, but how much more is really necessary? Not trying to start anything, just honestly curious? Except for this converter slip issue with looser TCs and the TC unlocking on 0% TPS, what else do you want?

I know there is also the issue of teh converter unlocking in certain TCM OS's during WOT shifts, and due to converter slippage will not relock. MANY people would like to be able to alter the grade breaking feature to make it actually work all the time, but this one would get tricky considering it works off an adaptive algorythim. And don't forget the ever annoying adaptive shift learning of some OS's. The 01 TCM OS is a pretty consistent shifting OS, but the 03-05 OS's can be unpredicteable at best to say the least.

[ScarabEpic22]

I know there is also the issue of teh converter unlocking in certain TCM OS's during WOT shifts, and due to converter slippage will not relock. MANY people would like to be able to alter the grade breaking feature to make it actually work all the time, but this one would get tricky considering it works off an adaptive algorythim. And don't forget the ever annoying adaptive shift learning of some OS's. The 01 TCM OS is a pretty consistent shifting OS, but the 03-05 OS's can be unpredicteable at best to say the least.

Got it, sounds like a fun can o worms to open up.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Got it, sounds like a fun can o worms to open up.

Yep, hence why no one has opened it yet. It would be nice to get ahold of a copy of ALLISON's DOC software to do these changes, but it is locked down some kind of tight when it comes to doing changes on the 2500/3500 tune files.

[Quinton]

Here is my current TCM tune im running if you would like to change it and ill try it out

[mitchd]

Sorrry Quinton, havent gotten the 5 speed working yet, gonna take a better look this weekend. The Six speeds work awesome though, kinda worried about my input shaft when it locks with 1000rpm slip!

[Quinton]

Sorrry Quinton, havent gotten the 5 speed working yet, gonna take a better look this weekend. The Six speeds work awesome though, kinda worried about my input shaft when it locks with 1000rpm slip!

Alright well let us know when you figure it out!

[Quinton]

Sorrry Quinton, havent gotten the 5 speed working yet, gonna take a better look this weekend. The Six speeds work awesome though, kinda worried about my input shaft when it locks with 1000rpm slip!

Could you post up the trans tune anyways so I can check it out? Or pm it to me. If like to take a look at it if you don't mind.

[mitchd]

Could you post up the trans tune anyways so I can check it out? Or pm it to me. If like to take a look at it if you don't mind.

there is nothing to see as the table is deep in the coding, and i cant disclose the adress for the competition to see. there are a couple more variables i have been playing with that seem to affect lockup based on tps changes, these really affect off throttle lockup.

[Dmaxink]

We have the 5 speed stuff working! 6 speed I have not tested, but pulling it out the reef here soon and mapping as many OS as possible. Have not been able to test the OP tune yet, but have it as well... Cool to see this brought back up to life!

[Quinton]

We have the 5 speed stuff working! 6 speed I have not tested, but pulling it out the reef here soon and mapping as many OS as possible. Have not been able to test the OP tune yet, but have it as well... Cool to see this brought back up to life!

Nice! Can't wait to try it.

[Quinton]

We have the 5 speed stuff working! 6 speed I have not tested, but pulling it out the reef here soon and mapping as many OS as possible. Have not been able to test the OP tune yet, but have it as well... Cool to see this brought back up to life!

What tables are y'all editing for the 5 speeds?

[Dmaxink]

Hex!

[mitchd]

Hex!

U still haven't answered me about that tune i sent u, did you try it or are you just reverse engineering my hard work? Dont really matter to me cause I have sent the addresses to Ross so he can include this variable in an update for all to be able to adjust. Cheers man!

[Quinton]

U still haven't answered me about that tune i sent u, did you try it or are you just reverse engineering my hard work? Dont really matter to me cause I have sent the addresses to Ross so he can include this variable in an update for all to be able to adjust. Cheers man!

Awesome! When do you think it will be updated?

[mitchd]

Awesome! When do you think it will be updated?
Ross said he would go through all the OS's and update the location and then post an update, he seemed pretty happy for me to give him the location so I would assume the update wont take long!

[Quinton]

Ross said he would go through all the OS's and update the location and then post an update, he seemed pretty happy for me to give him the location so I would assume the update wont take long!

Awesome can't wait!

[GMPX]

Once again thanks to Mitch for sharing the work he did.
Most importantly is I've found that we already have the table Mitch showed on he's first post included in the software, it's D5072, however, it was incorrectly defined as a 17 x 3 table, not 17 x 5 as Mitch has so we are not seeing the higher torque number axis points. But before I jump the gun here I need to check if it just so happened that an earlier OS had this as a 17 x 3 and only some have 17 x 5.

Edit, the 5 speed had that table as 17 x 3 (assumption isn't always a good thing!).

[30 RUM]

I guess we can't rescale the torque axis? I know that would be to easy.

Thnx

[mitchd]

I guess we can't rescale the torque axis? I know that would be to easy.

Thnx

dont really need to rescakw the axis, i just edit the other two colums.
these should be in a future update for all .

cheers

[30 RUM]

Sounds good,

Thnx

[BigTexas68]

I would like to try your modified tune. Here is the tune I am currently running in my 08.

Thanks

[Quinton]

Any updates on the 5 speed TCM?

[2wpuller]

I would like to try your modified tune. Here is the tune I am currently running in my 08.

Thanks
Would your tune work with my 07 8.1 os how is the closed throttle down shifts.

thanks for your info

[chevy1925]

Gotta bump this! Any more progress? I know a lot of people including myself that would love to be able to get into these tables

[hondarider552]

X2...

[cindy@efilive]

Modifications have been made. We just need to regenerate the cal files and include them in the next beta release. Once tested they will move into a public release.

Cheers
Cindy

[chevy1925]

Modifications have been made. We just need to regenerate the cal files and include them in the next beta release. Once tested they will move into a public release.

Cheers
Cindy

even for 5 speeds or only 6 speeds?

[chevy1925]

will it be included for the 5 speeds as well or only the 6 speeds?

[THEFERMANATOR]

will it be included for the 5 speeds as well or only the 6 speeds?
What he said. I would like to get lockup in 2nd instead of waiting until late in 3rd or 4th.

[Quinton]

what he said. I would like to get lockup in 2nd instead of waiting until late in 3rd or 4th.

x3!!!

[cindy@efilive]

The changes moving into beta are purely a change in table dimensions for 6 speed. They are moving from 17X3 to 17X5.

We will review parameter support when A50 is back on the development agenda.

Cheers
Cindy

[x MadMAX DIESEL]

can you adjust it to lock up at your own editable slip rpm? Because for sledpullers or anyone with a loose converter will get slips about 1500rpm.

[mitchd]

can you adjust it to lock up at your own editable slip rpm? Because for sledpullers or anyone with a loose converter will get slips about 1500rpm.

Yep, whatever slip limit you choose. I have seen mine lock with 1300 rpm slip, too high for me but it works!

[x MadMAX DIESEL]

if I update my efilive to the newest version will i have that add on to table d5072? My lockup controller broke but I would like to do away with it anyways because I have so many spliced in wires it doesnt look good. I have build 235 right now

[x MadMAX DIESEL]

mine is a 7766 os though, not a 1752. Is that gonna be a problem?

[x MadMAX DIESEL]

bump

[OTHRGRL]

Any updates to this Ross or Cindy? Especially the TCC Slip limit table he added, since D5072 won't help if we are above 600 RPM of slip.

On my 05 5 speed I have issues with the converter being commanded to unlock any time I get tire spin rolling in the throttle from a cruise. Not during a shift, and it doesn't even have to be WOT - just rolling on the throttle from 50+ mph if the tires start to break loose at all the TCM will drop TCC duty cycle and unlock the converter - unlocking and flash stalling from 2500 RPM to 4500 RPM under power seems to be hell on converters. In 4WD without the tires slipping it will stay locked, only if the tires slip in 2WD. Also if you hit a dip in the road while accelerating hard and the tires lose contact with the ground just enough to get a touch of spin it will unlock then as well. With the BT lockup box in manual lockup it won't do it, I can roll into it from 60 mph and white smoke the tires without the converter unlocking; but I would like to be able to take care of it in the tune and not have to go into manual lock-up every time I want to accelerate from a roll when the converter is already locked.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Any updates to this Ross or Cindy? Especially the TCC Slip limit table he added, since D5072 won't help if we are above 600 RPM of slip.

On my 05 5 speed I have issues with the converter being commanded to unlock any time I get tire spin rolling in the throttle from a cruise. Not during a shift, and it doesn't even have to be WOT - just rolling on the throttle from 50+ mph if the tires start to break loose at all the TCM will drop TCC duty cycle and unlock the converter - unlocking and flash stalling from 2500 RPM to 4500 RPM under power seems to be hell on converters. In 4WD without the tires slipping it will stay locked, only if the tires slip in 2WD. Also if you hit a dip in the road while accelerating hard and the tires lose contact with the ground just enough to get a touch of spin it will unlock then as well. With the BT lockup box in manual lockup it won't do it, I can roll into it from 60 mph and white smoke the tires without the converter unlocking; but I would like to be able to take care of it in the tune and not have to go into manual lock-up every time I want to accelerate from a roll when the converter is already locked.

Sounds like you are experiencing the ALLISON traction control feature kicking in. I know mine does it even on small tunes. When I logged all of the trans parameters and played the logs back I noticed a PID for traction control and it would go active everytime the tires would break loose when I got on it. If the tires broke loose from the start it would lock up like normal, but if they break loose when your moving the TCM would freak out and go into this traction control mode. Mine will even defuel when it goes active. This is on an 01 OS. Never bothered me much as I have no business breaking the tires loose at 60 and drifting a BURB. It would be REALLY nice to get the added lockup tables though. I'm tired of mine going to 3100-3300 and just sitting there until it finally locks at the top of 3rd gear.

[biggrizz338]

Here is my OS thanks.

[rammegacab]

Any new news for the 5-speed TCM being released on a public release? If anyone has got it to work I would love to get one of the files so I can test it out on my truck...

[cmitchell17]

Any new news for the 5-speed TCM being released on a public release? If anyone has got it to work I would love to get one of the files so I can test it out on my truck...

This would be a huge huge huge help also. What weird is that my 05os has the table as 3*17 and another 05os (sequence 000000 downloaded from holden crazy) has the same table D5072 at a 17*3. Im also assuming the cell values should have units of psi/second as the cells are defined as ramp rate. So a greater engine torque requires less time slipping to increase clutch life?

[dkrex001]

Any update on when this is going to be updated?

[beav]

It has been quite a while since there was an update to this thread. When should these features be released? Surely, someone could enlighten us with a ballpark release date for both A40/50 and AL5?

Thanks and please understand that we appreciate the hard work of all - even the OP!

[GMPX]

The issue was for the late AL5 and A40 only (as far as I am aware).
The update is done, but, we are going to release the A40 updates with the A50 programming enabled too, planning to have that done by this month or April.

Cheers
Ross

[THEFERMANATOR]

The issue was for the late AL5 and A40 only (as far as I am aware).
The update is done, but, we are going to release the A40 updates with the A50 programming enabled too, planning to have that done by this month or April.

Cheers
Ross

The issue is with ALL of the ALLISON TCM OS's. They ALL suffer from this slip limit hurdle(some worse than others).

[beav]

The issue was for the late AL5 and A40 only (as far as I am aware).
The update is done, but, we are going to release the A40 updates with the A50 programming enabled too, planning to have that done by this month or April.

Cheers
Ross
Does this mean that AL5 feature updates will not be implemented or just that they are not on the road map yet? Are the challenges with the AL5 and A40 resolvable or a lost cause?

[GMPX]

Ok, so I am confused now.
The A40 as an example, we didn't define the table correctly, we said there was only 3 columns, not 5 like there is, that means you are not seeing the rest of the table. The changes we made are the same as what the original poster made, we've fixed the table so the entire thing is shown (5 x 17), we also have the axis points so you can change those too (see the attached pic).
Off the top of my head the AL5 was always a 3 column table, not 5.

Cheers,
Ross

16472

[vortecfcar]

Ross,

You're focused on the table. Everyone else is focused on the magic 625 number. Read the thread through that lense and it's clearer what's meant. No al5/a40/a50 tcms lockup consistently with big power without that edit.


Nick

[GMPX]

Ok, well that single parameter became a small 3 value table in the A40 (at lest the OS's I checked).
If we include both the 'fixed' 5 x 17 table and the slip table are we on the right track?

Cheers,
Ross

16473

P.S - Yes those temperature values are correct.

[beav]

Specifically, what I am asking is whether or not AL5 will get the new tables and the slip limit adjustment. If so, when would we see the updates roll out?

[vortecfcar]

I think your job here is done. Thanks Ross!

Ps-beav, yes- early April if I'm reading the right.

[beav]

I think your job here is done. Thanks Ross!

Ps-beav, yes- early April if I'm reading the right.

Yeah, I went back to re-read Ross's original post and realized that I misunderstood what he was saying. Rough day yesterday. :grin: I thought, for some reason, that they were not updating the AL5 but instead just the A40 and A50.

Thanks for the clarification! Sounds like great news for ALL!!!

[beav]

Will modifying this "slip limit" allow/cause the tc to lock in 1st gear?

[THEFERMANATOR]

Will modifying this "slip limit" allow/cause the tc to lock in 1st gear?

No. Lockup in 1st is impossible with a 5 speed, and highly unreccomended for the 6 speeds. I still wish we could get the tables for TCC lockup at closed throttle. No matter where you set the tables, the TCM will unlock the converter at the same road speed when you let off the throttle. But I realize this request is beyond low priority as only a couple of us have asked about it(just would be nice for those like me who have 3.42 gears to be able to keep the converter locked at 55 when I let off the throttle. Gets really annoying having it unlock at 56 everytime I let off.).

[DAVe3283]

No. Lockup in 1st is impossible with a 5 speed, and highly unreccomended for the 6 speeds. I still wish we could get the tables for TCC lockup at closed throttle. No matter where you set the tables, the TCM will unlock the converter at the same road speed when you let off the throttle. But I realize this request is beyond low priority as only a couple of us have asked about it(just would be nice for those like me who have 3.42 gears to be able to keep the converter locked at 55 when I let off the throttle. Gets really annoying having it unlock at 56 everytime I let off.).
I've wanted the same table, but never mentioned it. I've got tall tires, and even with the 3.72 gears, it unlocks higher than I want.

But yeah, that is going to be a very low priority request. I'd rather have OS 12655493 for my Cruze Eco, at the moment.

The slip limit being solved is great, though! I'm awaiting this update anxiously.

[DURAtotheMAX]

Awesome job, thanks Ross!!

One other question....have you been able to find the table that specifies a force-unlock during a WOT downshift/kickdown? All TCM's do it EXCEPT the 04.5-05 LLY 5-speed. Like, if you are cruising on the highway in 5th locked up, floor it to pass someone, TCM unlocks TCC, then downshifts...then relocks. LLY TCM cal just downshifts without the unlock-relock dance.

Ben

[beav]

No. Lockup in 1st is impossible with a 5 speed, and highly unreccomended for the 6 speeds. I still wish we could get the tables for TCC lockup at closed throttle. No matter where you set the tables, the TCM will unlock the converter at the same road speed when you let off the throttle. But I realize this request is beyond low priority as only a couple of us have asked about it(just would be nice for those like me who have 3.42 gears to be able to keep the converter locked at 55 when I let off the throttle. Gets really annoying having it unlock at 56 everytime I let off.).
Why "impossible"? Some thought that the 600+ rpm lock limit was impossible too. Now I'm more curious than anything else. Not sure why anyone would really need to lockup in 1st other than for the sake of fun (and danger for that matter).

I have 3.73s and I just looked at a few logs and my converter is locked in @ 0% tps until about 1325rpm and about 50mph which is when TCC DC goes from 100% to 0%. Maybe you need a slightly smaller tire or higher gear to get you out of that range. ;-)

[DURAtotheMAX]

Why "impossible"? Some thought that the 600+ rpm lock limit was impossible too.

Its a hydraulic limitation of the 5-speed valve body....it has nothing to do with tuning. You cant "tune around" a blocked off fluid passage in the valve body casting.

If you manually apply (IE, just ground the control wire) the TCC solenoid on a 5-speed in 1st gear, nothing happens.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Its a hydraulic limitation of the 5-speed valve body....it has nothing to do with tuning. You cant "tune around" a blocked off fluid passage in the valve body casting.

If you manually apply (IE, just ground the control wire) the TCC solenoid on a 5-speed in 1st gear, nothing happens.
What he said. There is no getting around a built in limitation except for swapping in a 6 speed valve body(and that opens up a whole nother can of works to contend with). For a 5 speed lockup in 1st isn't going to happen. People have manually done it in 6 speeds, but all of the reports I have read from those who have done it advised against it.

[beav]

I have no issues with not having that feature. Again, it was more for curiosity, but I have gained some knowledge now. ;-)

Thanks!

[cindy@efilive]

I've wanted the same table, but never mentioned it. I've got tall tires, and even with the 3.72 gears, it unlocks higher than I want.

But yeah, that is going to be a very low priority request. I'd rather have OS 12655493 for my Cruze Eco, at the moment.

The slip limit being solved is great, though! I'm awaiting this update anxiously.

Dave, the file was made available a couple of weeks ago in this thread http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?22578-Unsupported-Read-2013-Cruze/page2

Cheers
Cindy

[LB72004]

16521
No. Lockup in 1st is impossible with a 5 speed, and highly unreccomended for the 6 speeds. I still wish we could get the tables for TCC lockup at closed throttle. No matter where you set the tables, the TCM will unlock the converter at the same road speed when you let off the throttle. But I realize this request is beyond low priority as only a couple of us have asked about it(just would be nice for those like me who have 3.42 gears to be able to keep the converter locked at 55 when I let off the throttle. Gets really annoying having it unlock at 56 everytime I let off.).

i always thought this until i stalled my engine by having the TCC locked via the scan tool DVT controls and coming to a stop at a stop sign. i was driving slowly on some back roads experimenting with the DVT controls and had set the TCC to locked. when i came to a stop sign i pressed on the breaks and i could feel the engine bogging down and trying to maintain RPM. i was baffled as to what happened until i realized i had the TCC turned on.

mine will also not unlock when i take my foot of of the throttle no matter what the MPHs are if programmed. i have to set mine to unlock in the tune for it to unlock with 0% throttle.

i dont know how to explain this but it seems to contradict everything i have read. any explanation?

attached is my stock 5 speed tune

thanks Jason

[Quinton]

So is this a go for 5 speeds????

[beav]

So is this a go for 5 speeds????
From what I understand, yes.

[Quinton]

Which update was it in? I must have missed it???

[beav]

Which update was it in? I must have missed it???
Should be available in April hopefully.

[GMPX]

Yes that is probably a reasonable expectation, the update will include the A50 up to the 2014 models as well, so there is a bit of stuff to finalise and test.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I have no need for the A50 stuff, but the slip limit change sounds like a good reason for me to finally upgrade my software. It's getting really old not getting lockup until 4th gear.

[beav]

I have no need for the A50 stuff, but the slip limit change sounds like a good reason for me to finally upgrade my software. It's getting really old not getting lockup until 4th gear.

Are you running al5 or a40? I run the al5 and I get lockup in upper portions of 2nd and up.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I have an AL5(01 DURAMAX/ALLISON combo). If I drop back to my tow tune I get lockup in 2nd no problem, but my big tune with a hot trans and I don't get lockup until the 3-4 shift(makes for a NASTY 3-4 shift). The whole reason for people wanting these tables is because under big power you don't get lockup without a lockup controller.

[beav]

I have an AL5(01 DURAMAX/ALLISON combo). If I drop back to my tow tune I get lockup in 2nd no problem, but my big tune with a hot trans and I don't get lockup until the 3-4 shift(makes for a NASTY 3-4 shift). The whole reason for people wanting these tables is because under big power you don't get lockup without a lockup controller.
In your "tow tune" are you in T/H mode? I'm assuming so. I'm getting lockup in the upper range of 2nd whether T/H is enabled or not. Actually, when not in T/H I get about 60% TCCDC right after going into 2nd and about 75% through the 2nd gear range (before shifting to 3rd,) I get 97.6% TCCDC and ~0 slip. Maybe it is just the massive Cummins torque that allows it to hit 625 RPM slip so quickly. :muahaha:

I looked at a few logs and they were similar, but when I get a chance, I'll log it again. I do not have any lockup controllers, just EFI tuning.

[Chavez91]

If you're getting lock-up in second gear, you're not throwing enough power through it. lol

On my maxeffort tune Im super lucky if i get lockup on the 4th gear shift. But most of the time i dont get lock up till im at the top of 4th. T/H or normal mode.

Its a hit or miss thing.. but would be nice if it could be made more consistant. As in Lockup in 2nd every time and I could get rid of my lockup controller.

[The Alchemist]

Hi guys, could someone please explain to me ( and others reading this) what is this slip and WHY is it important in a manner we can all understand...thanks, Mike.

[beav]

Hi guys, could someone please explain to me ( and others reading this) what is this slip and WHY is it important in a manner we can all understand...thanks, Mike.
The "slip" that everyone is referring to is the 625 rpm minimum difference between engine speed and tranny input shaft speed that must be achieved before the T/C can lock. It appeared that no matter what you did to your tune, until you achieved this "slip" (~625 rpm) you would not be able to lock. It wasn't until the gracious OP and others that he acknowledged broke into the low-level code and found the info needed to override (or change) this slip limit.

Soon, we will be able to make that value reasonably whatever we want it to be. Hope that makes sense and if I have stated this incorrectly, someone feel free to correct me.

[beav]

If you're getting lock-up in second gear, you're not throwing enough power through it...

If I am able to power through this converter at lock-up, then I'll be asking for a $1,300 refund. When it locks, you know it! I was just having a little D-max/Cummins fun with my comment. ;-) If you meant something else, then please enlighten me as I am confused.

[beav]

I have an AL5(01 DURAMAX/ALLISON combo). If I drop back to my tow tune I get lockup in 2nd no problem, but my big tune with a hot trans and I don't get lockup until the 3-4 shift(makes for a NASTY 3-4 shift). The whole reason for people wanting these tables is because under big power you don't get lockup without a lockup controller.
Here is a log that I made today and it is with a tune that should be producing 500-550hp. It is from a roll in 1st. The trans was not quite what I would consider "hot", but my other logs do the same with a hot trans. Hopefully this may reveal something. One thing I do not understand is why there is such a separation between the commanded gear and actual gear positions. Is this normal?
16553

[tradin1]

i have never tried to tune anything myself with efi, so who would be the best person to walk me through what to do, or where can i have it done. obviously this is not your typical Duramax/Allison combo, so is there someone that has some experience with cummins/allison tuning? it shift fine other than these two complaints.

i have a cummins VP44 engine (450hp) with an A40 allison 6spd that the tcc does not lock up till 4th and unlocks on part throttle just like you are talking about fixing.

thx

[JoshH]

April has come and gone. I have been looking for a new update, but I haven't seen it yet. Did I miss it, or is it still being tested/finalized?

[vortecfcar]

It's in beta. It works.

[cindy@efilive]

April has come and gone. I have been looking for a new update, but I haven't seen it yet. Did I miss it, or is it still being tested/finalized?

JoshH, as one of our Cummins Beta testers you should have access to the Software build forum and access to the test software. PM me if you can't see it.

Cheers
Cindy

[beav]

JoshH, as one of our Cummins Beta testers you should have access to the Software build forum and access to the test software. PM me if you can't see it.

Cheers
Cindy

Sounds like the beta testing is going well. When should we expect the public release?

[cindy@efilive]

We are on our 6th bets in 10 weeks....we hope that this is the last and that public elevate can be in the next 1-2 weeks.

Cheers
Cindy

[DURAtotheMAX]

Any updates Cindy? Been on the edge of my seat waiting for these tables for 8 years! :mrgreen:

Ben

[x MadMAX DIESEL]

This gonna work up to 1100 when full released? I think it's only 600 right now isn't it?

[cindy@efilive]

Any updates Cindy? Been on the edge of my seat waiting for these tables for 8 years! :mrgreen:

Ben

Another beta is now underway and we expect one more before public release.

Cheers
Cindy

[Quinton]

Well i see it's finally out. Has anyone played with it yet?

[Quinton]

Hello? I tried disabling it and that made it run like crap. What rpm limit should I try out first?

[KB3MMX]

Well i see it's finally out. Has anyone played with it yet?

I have it working awesome in my TCM tunes but I've reworked about every table in the thing....part throttle and WOT.

Loving this transmission software even more now, it drives like a completely different truck !!

[Quinton]

I have it working awesome in my TCM tunes but I've reworked about every table in the thing....part throttle and WOT.

Loving this transmission software even more now, it drives like a completely different truck !!

In a 6 speed or 5 speed? I've tried disabling it and that didn't work. Tried raising full throttle slip to 800 that didn't work. Any ideas?

[vortecfcar]

Tcc ramp rate by torque needs adjustment. Go higher than 800

[cmitchell17]

Tcc ramp rate by torque needs adjustment. Go higher than 800

Does anyone else think this table (D5072) even works? At least on the 5speeds. I tried going both ways with no difference set all the way to zero or 1 and max it all out and this changes nothing. Logically the controller should adjust to match the ramp rate in D5072 so there would be no need to adjust it from stock, unless you want an annoying jerk when it locks up. But with a triple disk I guess your at the limits of the control logic, whats weird is you can watch DC and it will ramp quickly up to about 30-40% for a couple seconds with no decrease in in slip speed. Then all of the sudden it DC jumps all the way up and it locks hard.

Messing with the max and min DC tables you can drop the maximum to a certain point about 30% or something like that and you will get a few normal lockups, then eventually it will set a code and start halfway lockup and relocking. Moving the max duty cycle up just slightly it goes back to normal hard lockup that's really annoying. So theres definitely no linear correlation between duty cycle and tcc clutch pressure.

So is there any alternate strategy to attack this? Im assuming this will be the last revision of the TCM, but it seems like there maybe could be a workaround of trick?

[asmithIII]

Believe new table will help in preventing TCC from trying to lock. Useful in keeping TCC from overheating. Believe that after enough slip, slip is enabled.

Just started trying new ideas but seems that really strong TCC lock after 600 rpm slip is going to be difficult to program.

[Brayden]

The "slip" that everyone is referring to is the 625 rpm minimum difference between engine speed and tranny input shaft speed that must be achieved before the T/C can lock. It appeared that no matter what you did to your tune, until you achieved this "slip" (~625 rpm) you would not be able to lock. It wasn't until the gracious OP and others that he acknowledged broke into the low-level code and found the info needed to override (or change) this slip limit.

Soon, we will be able to make that value reasonably whatever we want it to be. Hope that makes sense and if I have stated this incorrectly, someone feel free to correct me.




You have it backwards. The slip limit is a delta between input and turbine speed, yes. But not as an enable. It's a disable feature that when the slip threshold is above 600 RPM it inhibits TCC apply. This is to prevent excessive wear to the lockup clutch friction material and eventual TCC failure. Since most people switch to a triple disc TC when they add hp this feature isn't as necessary. Raising the slip delta to 1000 RPM or even higher allows the TCM to apply the TCC with no regard for the actual clutch friction material or heat generated by applying it with a large delta rpm.

[beav]

You have it backwards. The slip limit is a delta between input and turbine speed, yes. But not as an enable. It's a disable feature that when the slip threshold is above 600 RPM it inhibits TCC apply. This is to prevent excessive wear to the lockup clutch friction material and eventual TCC failure. Since most people switch to a triple disc TC when they add hp this feature isn't as necessary. Raising the slip delta to 1000 RPM or even higher allows the TCM to apply the TCC with no regard for the actual clutch friction material or heat generated by applying it with a large delta rpm.
You are correct, I did not state it correctly. Wish I would have re-read it! Thanks for pointing it out. If anyone could explain it best, that would be you. Thanks for the clarification that the TCM actually "disables" the TCC's ability to lock above 600 rpm of T/C slip.

With that, the whole premise behind this new EFILive feature is that you can now keep the TCC from inhibiting lockup at and above 600 rpm of slip, but at say 800 rpm of slip instead. It is like dumping a manual clutch at 800 rpm (or higher) of engine speed. But, as Brayden explains above, the parameter is there for your protection. I would not mod these tables unless you have the obvious upgrades.

[cmitchell17]

Is there enough tables available (Min/Max Duty Cycle and TCC Ramp Rate) to successfully make a suncoast triple disk converter to lock up as smooth as a stock converter or at least somewhat reasonably? The control logic makes no sense if you lower the max DC; the TCC will command on and it instantly ramps up to the max value and delta RPM does not change at all until about 2 seconds later then magically delta RPM goes to zero. If the max DC is below about 65% or so, for the majority of TPS values <75%TPS, It will lockup at part throttle about like stock. But If the converter is locked and you push the throttle without unlocking once the turbo starts to spool it will start slipping. So if you raise the Max DC at higher throttle positions it will make it lockup hard again even at low throttle positions.

Is the controller just at its limits since there is so much apply area with a triple disk? or is there a way to trick it at least with the tables we have available in the AL5? You would think that you could just leave the tables alone and maybe lower the MIN DC and the controller could adapt, and no adjustment would be required with the ramp rate since you want it to lock like stock, but I guess DC and lockup pressure have some weird non linear correlation.

[n2brk]

this is awesome. My buddy is out testing our tuning on his truck; moving the slip RPM up incrementally to get a feel for it. He's gone from feeling locked in 4th (stock) to the top of third (800rpm) and now all the way through third (1500rpm). No reports of drive problems or odd shifting. It's a 2wd LMM with a Big Dipper Stage IV. Next we plan on logging some runs :)

Wally

[thunder550]

Tcc ramp rate by torque needs adjustment. Go higher than 800

Is this 800 kpa? I have D5233 set to Disable, D5231 and D5232 are at stock values, and set the D5072 as shown in the screenshot below (values are in kpa). I haven't gotten consistent lockup in 2nd gear yet. Been nervous to increase the values over 250 kpa.

[thunder550]

Just realized that has to be a kpa value, the table only goes to 146ish psi. I just tried setting the 400 and 600 ft-lb column to 900 kpa from 50-600 RPM, still not getting lockup until the 2-3 shift. Slip RPM right after the 1-2 shift is only around 330 RPM, and calculated torque is 487 ft-lb.

I am getting a weird thing where it looks like the TCC duty cycle increases, goes back to zero, and increases slowly again during 2nd gear. This happened on both WOT pulls I just tried. Any ideas what's going on?

Diff ratio is 3.42 and tire dia is smaller than stock, 30.75", not sure if that would throw anything off.

[x MadMAX DIESEL]

Is this 800 kpa? I have D5233 set to Disable, D5231 and D5232 are at stock values, and set the D5072 as shown in the screenshot below (values are in kpa). I haven't gotten consistent lockup in 2nd gear yet. Been nervous to increase the values over 250 kpa.

I cant seem to find those tables to adjust on my lbz tcm (a40?) i have updated to the newest versions of all efilive and cant find the slip limit

[dansdieselp]

There is one op system that hasn't had it added in yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[x MadMAX DIESEL]

There is one op system that hasn't had it added in yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ohh well that's probably mine. So if I switch to a different os I should see it

[THEFERMANATOR]

There is one op system that hasn't had it added in yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The 01 OS's don't have it mapped out, pretty sure all of the 02+ have it. If you're still not getting lockup in 2nd after you have changed the slip limit tables, go in to D5064, and lower the speed down for the lockup speed by 2-3 MPH or more, that should get you lockup. Even if you change the slip limit, you have to have the lockup speed low enough that there is a buffer between the 2-3 shift and the lockup speed, otherwise it won't lockup regardless of the slip limit settings.

[dansdieselp]

The 01 OS's don't have it mapped out, pretty sure all of the 02+ have it. If you're still not getting lockup in 2nd after you have changed the slip limit tables, go in to D5064, and lower the speed down for the lockup speed by 2-3 MPH or more, that should get you lockup. Even if you change the slip limit, you have to have the lockup speed low enough that there is a buffer between the 2-3 shift and the lockup speed, otherwise it won't lockup regardless of the slip limit settings.

The issue he has is with a LBZ A40. I know which one he is talking about.

[mitchd]

There is one op system that hasn't had it added in yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

actually all the slip limit tables in efi are referenced to the wrong memory location as i have discovered based on the fact that i know what table needs to be modified. when i load my working 1200rpm slip limit tune into efi it show me a slip limit of 625rpm, i can change my 1200 limit to anything i like and reload in efi and it still shows 625. its so easy, i dont know how they messed up the reference location.

[LunchBox]

its so easy, i dont know how they messed up the reference location.

Too much copy pasta.

[DAVe3283]

actually all the slip limit tables in efi are referenced to the wrong memory location as i have discovered based on the fact that i know what table needs to be modified. when i load my working 1200rpm slip limit tune into efi it show me a slip limit of 625rpm, i can change my 1200 limit to anything i like and reload in efi and it still shows 625. its so easy, i dont know how they messed up the reference location.
If you want to send me a .bin file and the address, I can make a CAX file so you can edit it in EFILive. Might help some other people out.

Sent from my FlashScan V2

[n2brk]

actually all the slip limit tables in efi are referenced to the wrong memory location as i have discovered based on the fact that i know what table needs to be modified. when i load my working 1200rpm slip limit tune into efi it show me a slip limit of 625rpm, i can change my 1200 limit to anything i like and reload in efi and it still shows 625. its so easy, i dont know how they messed up the reference location.

I hope something becomes of this to help. I adjusted the table for my LMM and it reduced but did not eliminate the problem. Only Ben's lockup box actually cured it for me.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I hope something becomes of this to help. I adjusted the table for my LMM and it reduced but did not eliminate the problem. Only Ben's lockup box actually cured it for me.

Have you also lowered the lockup speed in 2nd gear? It doesn't matter if you raise the slip limit, if you are to close to the lockup speed in that gear, the TCM will over ride lockup until the shift is completed. I think this is the issue alot of people are running into with no lockup even after raising the slip limit.

[Chavez91]

There are also a few more speed related lock up inhibitors not in EFI. Two that dictate min enable disable and an base value minimum speed lockup can occur at. If those are not lowered, in most OS's I have come across, the soonest possible you can get the TCC to lock is ~ 20 MPH. Which is close enough to the 2-3 shift that it will 90% of the time lock immediately as it enters 3rd Gear. Without changing those, Ben's box will always lock sooner.


Too much copy pasta.

LOL Its so true!

[n2brk]

Have you also lowered the lockup speed in 2nd gear? It doesn't matter if you raise the slip limit, if you are to close to the lockup speed in that gear, the TCM will over ride lockup until the shift is completed. I think this is the issue alot of people are running into with no lockup even after raising the slip limit.

Ferman - no, I didn't get that far. My biggest frustration turned out to be when I was rolling along on a 2lane and went to stomp it and pass someone. I would slip and slip and slip until the point where I was about to shift to fourth, the. It would finally lock up and drop a few hundred rpm, then shift into 4th and stay locked. It was terrible. Ben's box fixed it instantly.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I have mine locking pretty consistently, but I will say the TCM does have a rather long delay before it will command lockup even once all conditions are met. The TCM tries to overthink everything to protect the trans.

[n2brk]

I have mine locking pretty consistently, but I will say the TCM does have a rather long delay before it will command lockup even once all conditions are met. The TCM tries to overthink everything to protect the trans.

I found no complaints doing it on my buddy's stock turbo LMM, but on my 68stg2r making 100hp over his, no bueno.

[Super V]

actually all the slip limit tables in efi are referenced to the wrong memory location as i have discovered based on the fact that i know what table needs to be modified. when i load my working 1200rpm slip limit tune into efi it show me a slip limit of 625rpm, i can change my 1200 limit to anything i like and reload in efi and it still shows 625. its so easy, i dont know how they messed up the reference location.

Have they fixed this problem with the new update in December?

[n2brk]

I can't say on the latest release, but about 2 months ago in the beta, I was poking around tweaking my tune and for shits/giggles I maxed out the skip limit table (8k I think?), and the funniest thing happened. In tow/haul mode I had the same shift points but no lockup at all. Usually you get mid 2nd lockup - nope. I didn't go beyond the 'hood to see if it would lockup in 5th or WFO but up through 5th gear at 40'ish mph I had the usual feel of t/h but no lockup.

[mitchd]

So it's been a while since I've been on here but I recently bought another 2006 LBZ head with a 6-speed Allison and I've been playing around with the slip limit and discovered why it will not work for any of you guys, besides the fact that the wrong table is referenced in EFI live...
Anybody who wants to send me a 6-speed TCU file I'll patch it send it back and you can let me know that it works! Email me the file

[n2brk]

loading it in a few mins and taking a quick spin

[n2brk]

I took it for just a really quick spin - works!!!! I hammered the throttle and it locked in 2nd no problem. Then I was in 4th and goosed it - she dropped to 3rd and rev'd a little and locked right up. Then I did less than full throttle hit and she locked right up again. This is great!

[Quinton]

I took it for just a really quick spin - works!!!! I hammered the throttle and it locked in 2nd no problem. Then I was in 4th and goosed it - she dropped to 3rd and rev'd a little and locked right up. Then I did less than full throttle hit and she locked right up again. This is great!

Could you send me the tune please? He never got back with me

[mitchd]

check your email, sorry i missed you somehow...enjoy!

[Quinton]

check your email, sorry i missed you somehow...enjoy!

Thanks man!

[X-Force]

So it's been a while since I've been on here but I recently bought another 2006 LBZ head with a 6-speed Allison and I've been playing around with the slip limit and discovered why it will not work for any of you guys, besides the fact that the wrong table is referenced in EFI live...
Anybody who wants to send me a 6-speed TCU file I'll patch it send it back and you can let me know that it works! Email me the file

So how does this work? How can I find the right table and patch it?

[n2brk]

It works fantastic. As far as I know, Mitch offered to help EFI Live fix the mistake, but no takers. Super disappointed that this hasn't made it into any updates.

[X-Force]

It works fantastic. As far as I know, Mitch offered to help EFI Live fix the mistake, but no takers. Super disappointed that this hasn't made it into any updates.

What A40 OS are you on? Could you send me your tune?

[n2brk]

I have it on a couple different OS for the LMM... but this is Mitch's baby, I cannot share his work. PM Mitch.

[THAHN]

Here is my file if you are willing to help, thank you!

[spiderpig]

Hi @mitchd, are you still frequenting this forum? Would love to get some help with a TCM tune for my LMM A40!

[X-Force]

I would still pay for someone to help me with this but seems like MitchD is no longer doing this?